Nikita Gill - Everyone Wants to Be Heard But No One Wants to Listen

Before becoming a No. 1 New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most widely read poets on Instagram, Nikita worked as a cleaner and carer while sharing her poetry online. She moved from New Delhi to Britain in her early twenties to study for a master's degree at the University for the Creative Arts, and felt she ‘disappointed’ her parents and faced repeated rejection and misogyny in the process. In this episode, she tells Elizabeth about her unusual childhood at sea, growing up in places marked by contested borders, where bomb scares at school felt routine, and the many obstacles she faced throughout her career. She also reflects on the power of poetry to connect us, why myths still resonate today and how writing became both a form of resistance and survival. IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 03:10 Archivist Heart 04:33 Unheard Voices 07:10 Borders Bomb Scares 09:49 Childhood 11:30 Mythical Power 13:52 Rejection To Breakthrough 25:51 Success Highs and Lows 26:31 Rejection as Return 27:45 Dating and Being Returned 28:11 BuzzFeed Fame Backlash 33:36 Shame and Misogyny Online 34:51 Surviving Internet Pile Ons 39:16 Chronic Pain Finally Named 48:34 Family Grief and Goodbye LINKS + MENTIONS: Nikita’s new book, Styx: The River is out this Autumn: www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/Styx-The-River/Nikita-Gill/9781398537194 Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com WANT MORE? Michael Rosen - swap.fm/l/TCjvDZaxrZsq4iZRCccm LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Nikita answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Miquita Oliver is a podcaster, TV presenter and all-round brilliant woman. She was just 16 when she burst onto our screens co-hosting Channel 4’s cult music show Popworld alongside Simon Amstell. Twenty-five years later, she’s still one of Britain’s most distinctive broadcasters and interviewers. She co-created Miss Me?, with Lily Allen, and now co-hosts it with musician Jordan Stephens of Rizzle Kicks. You may also know Miquita from the acclaimed BBC series The Caribbean with Andi and Miquita, in which she and her mother, Andi Oliver, travelled to Antigua to reconnect with their family, heritage and identity. We talk about Miquita surviving the 2004 tsunami in Thailand, the shame she associates with going bankrupt, her struggle with alcoholism in her thirties, love, family, and why she still can't quite conquer her driving theory test. She even opens up about her hopes and fears around motherhood. This is an essential conversation for any one who survived the noughties diet culture or who has grappled with financial hardship. Frank, funny and unexpectedly moving: just like Miquita herself. IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 02:42 Heritage and Caribbean Roots 04:19 Tsunami Trauma and Healing 07:04 Iconic Co-Hosts and Craft 10:51 Losing Home 13:03 Miss Me Origins and Honesty 15:26 Bankruptcy Shame and Survival 30:58 Weight and Work Comeback 32:02 Second Reinvention Switch 33:01 Money Lessons After Bankruptcy 34:21 Why Aren’t We Taught Tax 35:50 Alcoholism 39:19 Leaving Richmond and Getting Clear 43:12 Motherhood Without Shame 48:03 Driving Test Fail LINKS + MENTIONS: Listen to Miss Me? wherever you get your podcasts Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com WANT MORE? Andi Oliver - swap.fm/l/kcBWNXdPsg7LhgcGhvoF Lily Allen - swap.fm/l/8Otj3tpmbH5SF4xjVHTJ Neneh Cherry - swap.fm/l/r5YD9vNivp5t6yw1gN1U Mabel - swap.fm/l/bfOzGVjFFpo13LK7MHUu LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Miquita answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What connects Barack Obama, a tabloid sting and Love Islander Alex George? Have a Blue Peter badge if you were thinking of Richard Bacon... While the broadcaster and producer is perhaps best known for the time his Blue Peter contract was terminated - following a tabloid reveal of his cocaine use - there is so much more to the man. His storied time in television led to him founding a production company and creating numerous TV shows on both sides of the Atlantic. He credits this restless creativity to his ADHD, a diagnosis he only received later in life. We discuss how neurodivergence fuels him; how the cocaine exposé in the 90s impacted who he is; his relationship with his parents; his failed move to America, landing an interview with Barack Obama... and being tracked by the Secret Service. Richard talks movingly about being an addict, going to AA, his failure to quit drinking and a near-death experience that could have been averted by a certain doctor on Love Island. Trust me, an hour with Richard Bacon is quite the ride - strap in! IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Intro 03:57 Defining Success Today 04:15 Botox Water And Moisturizer 05:32 Parents And Upbringing 10:05 ADHD Intelligence 11:38 Blue Peter Cocaine Exposé 21:06 Fallout Press And Shame 25:42 Dad Crying in Secret 26:35 Public Humiliation to Resilience 29:01 Trust After Betrayal 30:05 America Move 32:37 Woody Harrelson 33:30 Obama Interview Whiplash 35:36 Work as Identity and Failure 37:53 Addiction Coma and Gratitude LINKS + MENTIONS: Richard’s podcast ‘Why Are You More Successful Than Me?’ is available now Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com WANT MORE? Claudia Winkleman – swap.fm/l/Q65AatVGMWgB27BoS0g2 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Richard answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was a privilege to have Bonnie Tyler on How to Fail back in 2024 - and we are heartbroken to hear of her passing today.    Bonnie was open, funny and moving when she joined me on How to Fail. Total Eclipse of the Heart made her a global star, and at the time of this recording, she managed to squeeze in an hour on How to Fail between gigs and the release of her new album, In Berlin. It was also her first ever podcast interview.  You might want to bring the tissues for this one, as we have a bit of a weep when Bonnie talks about losing her amazing mum.  We also touched on miscarriage and a childfree life. Plus her failure at elocution lessons, the fascinating story behind her friendship with Tina Turner, performing for Putin (no, really), being a bit of a hoarder and the secret to a 50-year marriage. We love you Bonnie Tyler, rest in peace.  Production & Post Production Coordinator: Lily Hambly Engineer: Gulliver Tickell and Josh Gibbs Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, I sit down with bestselling author‑illustrator Charlie Mackesy, whose work – The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse – has become a global touchstone for kindness, vulnerability and hope. Yet Charlie’s path was anything but straightforward: he grew up feeling inherently at fault, shaped by the pressures of competitive schooling and the emotional weight of carrying the painful stories readers now share with him. He talks about failing his driving test four times and the devastating loss of his best friend, Jamie, in a car crash – a grief that propelled him to London and sparked the first moment he began drawing compulsively, with music as solace. Charlie reflects on not achieving what he calls “conventional success” through marriage or children, the underrated importance of friendship and the power of kindness and self‑compassion. We also explore his years of not earning a living as an artist – a period he now sees not as failure, but as an essential process. Charlie urges us to create without fear, to let go of perfection and to live fully in the imperfect present. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Intro 03:44 Feeling at Fault 04:30 Outsider and School Years 05:55 Carrying Others Stories 13:57 Animals and Ducklings 17:08 Driving Test Failure 18:06 Loss and Aftermath 20:05 Grief Fuels Art 23:14 Bottling Emotions 25:07 Remember Mothers Word 28:28 Mum’s Tactile Reading 29:44 Dementia and Story Comfort 33:21 Redefining Success 37:46 Friendship Essentials 40:37 Kindness and Self Talk 46:09 Failing as an Artist 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: “When people tell you their weight, their sadness, anything, their failings, whatever it is they tell you, treat it like they’re giving you gold.” “I just wrote a book about a mole who likes cake and friends who are journeying in a difficult way with each other… but I think people just want to be heard and seen.” “None of us get out of here alive, so why not try? What have you got to lose?” 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Charlie’s latest book, Always Remember: The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, the Horse and the Storm, is available from all major UK booksellers. Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Jacqueline Wilson - this episode explores how Jacqueline Wilson’s life and career never followed a predictable path. She didn’t become a bestseller until her 40s and the setbacks she faced helped shape the writer she became. It reflects on the imagination and resilience behind unforgettable characters like Tracy Beaker, her ability to reinvent herself, most recently with The Primrose Railway Children and the creativity and determination that have sustained a career spanning more than 100 books. Ultimately, it’s about a woman interrogating creativity, perseverance and the determination required to keep going: swap.fm/l/PawxjS1dFBaohoKZXfpL 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Charlie answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anastacia has released eight albums and sold over 50 million records worldwide. She has collected a total of 227 gold and platinum certifications and counts Elton John as one of her biggest fans. In 2000, she released "I'm Outta Love", her debut single, which quickly topped charts worldwide and paved the way for her first album, Not That Kind. This year sees her embark on a major arena tour to celebrate that album’s 25th anniversary. In this episode we talk about her experience with breast cancer - she underwent a double mastectomy in 2013 after being diagnosed for the second time, dealing with sexism in the music industry and being a mother beyond the traditional sense. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Intro 02:32 Brodie Joins the Studio 03:15 Day Jobs Before Fame 04:16 Not That Kind at 25 05:31 Finding Her Sound 08:25 Celebrity Gig Stories 11:34 Failures Tech and Glasses 26:04 Dream Glasses Partnership 26:57 Tinted Lenses Origin Story 28:31 Sexism and Image Pressure 31:45 Redefining Femininity 32:32 Cancer Advocacy Fire 37:40 Self Care Birthday Hack 41:44 Writing Singable Songs 44:22 Mothering Beyond Biology 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: Give yourself a self-care birthday - go and get a mammogram There are so many different ways to be a mother  So the word cancer, I didn't like it, but I looked at the first three letters 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Anastacia is celebrating 25 years since the release of her debut album ‘Not That Kind’ and is taking her #NTK2026 on the road Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Shania Twain - took us back to her childhood, where she felt she grew up too fast, singing in smoke-filled bars at a young age. There are some real similarities between these two episodes - see what you think: swap.fm/l/JyU54nvq2muyBpNFq3B9 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Anastacia answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the FIRST EVER How To Fail Roundtable - a format we enjoyed so much we might just keep it. Today, Elizabeth is joined by broadcaster, actor, author and comedian Mel Giedroyc, and presenting powerhouse AJ Odudu for a candid conversation about body confidence, midlife reinvention and self-acceptance. Brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant, they discuss navigating public scrutiny, aging, personal experiences of the menopause and the importance of friendship.  Together, they explore how honesty, resilience and everyday rituals can help us feel more confident and comfortable in our own skin. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE:  00:00 Intro 02:39 Mel on body confidence 05:50 AJ on self appreciation 06:53 Freshness and shoot day hacks 09:08 Mel career and live TV 11:46 Screen scrutiny and representation 18:05 Midlife reinvention begins 22:15 The Power of Invisibility 23:51 Slowing Down to Go Deeper 24:58 AJ on Reinvention and Grief 27:32 Daily Rituals as Survival 28:45 Perimenopause Reality Check 30:47 HRT and Finding Relief 33:46 Owning ‘No’ and the Crone Era 35:42 Women Supporting Women Finale 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: Mel: Body confidence, to me, is literally getting closer to the mirror. AJ: We don't worship ourselves and honour our bodies in the way that we should.  Elizabeth: Everything is data acquisition about the thing that went wrong… you can do better next time or make different choices. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Dove Whole Body Deodorant: www.dove.com/uk/collections/whole-body.html Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan   Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] _________________________________________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a career spanning four decades, Dame Kristin Scott Thomas has become one of Britain’s most celebrated actors: Four Weddings and a Funeral, The English Patient, The Horse Whisperer, Tell No One and Slow Horses, alongside acclaimed stage work including her Olivier‑winning performance in The Seagull. Yet her path was far from straightforward: discouraged at drama school, she moved to Paris as an au pair and rebuilt her training from scratch. Her childhood had already been shaped by profound loss after the deaths of her father and stepfather in near‑identical accidents. She has now channelled these experiences into her directorial debut, My Mother’s Wedding, which she also co‑wrote and stars in, alongside Scarlett Johansson, Sienna Miller and Emily Beecham. We talk about her early grief, the emotional armour she built as a teenager, the chaotic experience of filming with Prince, making My Mother’s Wedding, the power of women writing women, her unforgettable Fleabag monologue and the joy and clarity she has found in her 60s. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Intro 03:15 Reclaiming a Tragic Narrative 04:59 Joy in her 60s 06:22 Co Writing With Her Husband 07:03 Animation and Childhood Memory 09:07 Casting and Creative Reunions 12:23 Failure One: Prince Film Debut 17:06 Fame Theater and Radical Roles 24:09 Under the Cherry Moon Lessons 25:28 Failure Two: Teenage Grief 26:24 Childhood Losses 27:58 Eldest Sibling Burden 28:37 Acting Through Sadness 29:59 English Patient Reflections 33:19 Four Weddings Role 36:39 Therapy and Healing 43:41 Grief Advice and Faith 45:45 Football and Identity 49:16 Aging and Gratitude 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: “I wanted to take my past and make it into something positive.” “If people enjoy what you do, it’s not bad.” “Having children allowed me to see where I’d gone wrong and where I was beating myself up.” 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Kristin’s directorial debut, My Mother’s Wedding, is now available in UK cinemas and streaming platforms such as Amazon Prime and Apple TV Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Rosamund Pike - this episode explores how her career has resisted tidy narratives, how she’s navigated fame without reading reviews for 25 years and how her so‑called “failures” – not getting married, struggling with fear, raising two sons while working, even a disastrous attempt at cooking a rabbit – have shaped her. It’s ultimately about a woman interrogating identity, courage and the stories she tells herself:http://swap.fm/l/tePOA4HZ2PoaBBwudnv7 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Kristin answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What draws an award-winning writer to the darkest corners of human behaviour? Patrick Radden-Keefe is a New York Times bestselling author and staff writer at The New Yorker. He is known for his acclaimed books, including Empire of Pain and Say Nothing - the latter was adapted into a BAFTA and Emmy-nominated drama series. Radden Keefe’s latest book, London Falling, investigates the life and untimely death of Zac Brettler, a North London teenager drawn into the criminal underworld. In this conversation, Patrick reflects on why he is so fascinated by “the bad guys”, how the extraordinary story behind London Falling unfolded and his unconventional writing process. Patrick also talks about the years of rejection that preceded his success and how it has shaped him. I hope you enjoy this conversation with one of the world’s finest narrative journalists (oh, and Patrick). JUST KIDDING. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 03:25 Why He Writes Bad Guys 05:12 London Falling Origin Story 08:01 Reinvention and Secret Lives 10:06 Holocaust Legacy and Lying 14:58 Carrying Grief and First Failure 31:47 Parents Read First Drafts 33:13 Family Themes And Fixations 34:22 Chasing The New Yorker Dream 36:49 Rejection Resentment And Drive 41:14 What To Leave Out 43:28 Research Outline 48:13 Screenplays That Never Get Made 50:51 Growth Outside Comfort Zone 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: I tend to look at people, even people who do pretty monstrous things, as human beings... The question for me is always, how did they get there? And usually they got there by degrees. I'd like to think that the sense of who you are as a person isn't contingent on the dopamine hit of people telling you you've done a good job. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: London Falling is out now: www.patrickraddenkeefe.com Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Jon Ronson - another journalistic hero of mine, Jon talked about his love of storytelling, what being bullied at school taught him and why truth-telling is vital: swap.fm/l/3Uwm2GCNCBpHQVZc6dwr Malcolm Gladwell - on being mediocre at running, failing to be a friend and whether prejudice can ever be a force for good: swap.fm/l/CxIsEyNtJcyXROPZQCvh 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Patrick answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] _________________________________________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

*triggers: This episode includes discussion of depression and mental health crises. In 1997 Natalie Imbruglia released her first single, Torn, which sold more than 4 million physical copies worldwide. In her homeland of Australia, it became the most played song on the radio, being played an average of 75 times a day over the two decades following its release. She landed a part in Neighbours in 1985, when she was just 16 years old, and stayed on the hugely popular soap for two years before moving to London. Her first album, Left Of Middle, went multi-platinum. Five further albums followed but it wasn’t always easy: in 2009 she took a six-year break from music to concentrate on acting, appearing on stage and in film and also as a judge on the Australian X Factor. Since then, she has released further music, become a mother to a son and won The Masked Singer. Now she returns with her seventh studio album, Algorithm. We talk about how writing this album coincided with the perimenopause, reflect on her time in Neighbours, her experience of dating apps, going through solo IVF to have her son, the sexism she faced in the music industry, plus the wisdom she has found in her 50s. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 03:08 Making Natalie’s new album Algorithm 04:55 Neurodivergence and Menopause 08:59 Death Scrolling 10:47 Dropped by Label 16:07 Neighbors and Rejection 25:35 Dating in Your 30s 27:15 Rejection Builds Clarity 27:37 Choosing Love Over Biology 30:47 IVF Reality Check 34:13 Single Mother Headlines 35:48 Manifesting With Lists 38:11 Living After Torn 43:53 Sexism and Aging Power 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: It doesn't matter who it is, never give your power over to another human being. Never think somebody knows you better than you know yourself. I'm quite good at being the underdog. I find it much scarier to be at the top, waiting to fall off a pedestal. Sometimes the universe is working for you, it just doesn't feel that way at the time. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Natalie’s latest album, ‘Algorithm’ is to be released on 4th September. Pre-order here: republicofmusic.lnk.to/algorithm Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Shania Twain - this episode reflects on a childhood marked by poverty, early fame, loss and self-doubt: swap.fm/l/JyU54nvq2muyBpNFq3B9 Lily Allen - talks about failing to be famous, body image, children, marital breakdown, addiction and songwriting: swap.fm/l/8Otj3tpmbH5SF4xjVHTJ 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Natalie answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices