7 Moments That Could Change the Jury’s Verdict in the Kouri Richins Trial

As the Kouri Richins trial heads into closing arguments, the biggest question is no longer what happened in court — it’s what the jury will do with it. In this episode, we break down the state’s circumstantial case charge by charge, from aggravated murder and attempted homicide to insurance fraud and forgery, and look at where the prosecution appears strong… and where real holes remain. We walk through the alleged fentanyl purchases, the Valentine’s Day sandwich incident, the suspicious insurance application, the missing hydrocodone bottle, the “Walk the Dog” letter, the ghostwritten grief book, the affair with Josh Grossman, and the financial pressure prosecutors say gave Kouri motive. But we also talk honestly about the places where the defense may have created reasonable doubt — especially by resting without calling a single witness and essentially telling the jury the state still hasn’t proven its case. With deliberations just ahead, this is a full look at the evidence, the unanswered questions, and the verdict possibilities now hanging over one of the most closely watched trials in Utah. Sponsors: Mint Mobile: Shop Mint Mobile plans at ⁠https://mintmobile.com/HIDDEN⁠ —new customers get 3 months of 5GB for $45 upfront ($15/mo); taxes and fees extra, see https://mintmobile.com for details. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Day 13 of the Kouri Richins trial brought a major turning point: after a morning of tense legal arguments, cross-examination of lead detective Jeff O’Driscoll, and a failed defense motion to dismiss the case, both sides rested — and the defense did so without calling a single witness. In this episode, we break down the final day of testimony, including the fight over the so-called suspicious GIFs, the defense’s attempt to introduce evidence suggesting Eric once asked for fentanyl, and the prosecution’s effort to reinforce the strength of its investigation. We also unpack what O’Driscoll admitted investigators still don’t know — including exactly how, when, or in what dose Eric ingested fentanyl — and why the missing hydrocodone bottle remains such a frustrating loose end. But the biggest shock came at the end: after weeks of hinting at alternate explanations, experts, and unanswered questions, Kouri’s defense rested without presenting any evidence at all. Now, with no defense witnesses and no testimony from Kouri herself, the case heads straight into closing arguments. Sponsors: First Day Life Inc.: Our listeners get up to 57% Off AND a Free Gift with code hidden at ⁠https://FirstDay.com ⁠ Jones Road Beauty: Use code HIDDEN at ⁠https://jonesroadbeauty.com⁠ to get a Free Shimmer Face Oil with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Day 12 of the Kouri Richins trial brought major moments in court as lead investigator Jeff O’Driscoll finally took the stand, Carmen Lauber returned for more questioning, and prosecutors introduced some of the case’s most talked-about evidence yet. In today’s recap, we break down the ongoing battle over Carmen’s jailhouse interviews, the defense’s attempt to challenge her credibility, and why that cross may not have landed as hard as expected. Then the focus shifts to Detective O’Driscoll, who walked jurors through how the homicide investigation developed after he took over the case. We also get into the children’s grief book Kouri promoted after Eric’s death, the evidence suggesting it may have been ghostwritten, and the shocking revelation that investigators say Kouri’s own mother sent a copy to police. Prosecutors also introduced text messages about the book, Kouri’s marketing plans, and her goal to sell 100,000 copies. And that’s not all. Jurors also heard about discrepancies in phone records, how investigators zeroed in on Carmen Lauber, what was found during the search of her home, and the jailhouse interviews that prosecutors say helped build their case. Then came one of the day’s biggest moments: the recorded jail calls between Kouri and her family, followed by the infamous “Walk the Dog” letter read aloud in court. We also break down the handwritten notes, timelines, texts, and journal entries shown to jurors — including Kouri’s written account of the night Eric died. This episode covers: • Carmen Lauber’s return to the stand • Detective Jeff O’Driscoll’s testimony • Kouri’s grief book and ghostwriter evidence • The anonymous package sent to police • Jailhouse interview clips played for jurors • Recorded calls with Kouri’s mom and brother • The “Walk the Dog” letter • Cross-examination highlights and what the defense is pushing back on As always, we’ll separate what happened in court from what stood out most — and talk through what may matter most as the state nears the end of its case. Sponsors: First Day Life Inc.: Our listeners get up to 57% Off AND a Free Gift with code hidden at https://FirstDay.com Jones Road Beauty: Use code HIDDEN at https://jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Shimmer Face Oil with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty Mint Mobile: Shop Mint Mobile plans at https://mintmobile.com/HIDDEN —new customers get 3 months of 5GB for $45 upfront ($15/mo); taxes and fees extra, see https://mintmobile.com for details. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Subscribe to Kathy at Gossip, Rumor and Innuendo on YouTube About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Day 10 of the Kouri Richins trial brought emotional testimony, forensic analysis, and a few moments of real courtroom tension. Eric Richins’ longtime friend and business partner Cody Wright took the stand, describing Eric as a hardworking father, loyal friend, and successful businessman while also facing tough questions from the defense about finances, hunting violations, and past drug rumors. Jurors then heard from a forensic document examiner who testified that a key signature attributed to Eric “probably” was not written by him and appeared to be a simulated forgery. Later, the court played the 911 call from the night Eric died, raising new questions about the timeline and response. The jury also heard from lead investigator Jamie Woody, who revealed that Eric’s sister told police that Eric had previously warned Kouri might kill him, a statement that shaped the early direction of the investigation. Finally, veteran private investigator Todd Gabler detailed the independent investigation that ultimately flagged Kouri’s hundreds of contacts with alleged drug dealer Carmen Lauber. From forgery allegations to the chilling 911 call and a heated cross-examination, Day 10 added several new layers to the state’s case. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. John has been busy keeping up with everything happening in the Kouri Richins trial, and he is finally ready to weigh in! From the bodycam, to the texts, to the recorded calls- what does it all say about Kouri Richins? About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we break down the powerful and heartbreaking new statements from Russell and Eve Franke, the two youngest survivors of the Franke family abuse case, as they speak directly to lawmakers about the Utah bill they believe could have saved them. We revisit the rise and fall of the 8 Passengers family, the disturbing influence of Jodi Hildebrandt, and the horrifying abuse that was happening behind closed doors long before Russell made his desperate escape on August 30, 2023. But this story is no longer just about what happened — it’s about what failed. Eve reveals that police and child welfare workers were at the door for months but legally couldn’t get inside, and both children are now pleading for passage of the Gavin Peterson Bill, a measure meant to close the gap that can leave abused children trapped with no way out. Their words are raw, direct, and devastating — and they force all of us to confront a painful question: why are children still being asked to save themselves? About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

** This episode was recorded live. It contains lots of profanity repeated from court evidence, and heard in audio played by the court. Day 9 of the Kouri Richins trial delivered some of the most dramatic moments yet. For the first time, jurors heard recorded phone calls made by Kouri herself — conversations captured while she was in custody where prosecutors say her own words may reveal key contradictions. The jury also heard testimony from a coworker and close friend who claimed Kouri once said it might be easier if Eric were dead, a statement the defense fiercely challenged with prior interview recordings. Meanwhile, several of Kouri’s longtime friends — her so-called “ride-or-dies” from junior high — took the stand, offering a deeply personal look at Kouri’s life, marriage, and behavior after Eric’s death. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

*This episode was originally recorded live. Day 8 of the Kouri Richins trial delivered the moment everyone knew was coming — the paramour took the stand. In this episode, we break down the emotional testimony from Josh Grossman as jurors watched intimate text messages between him and Kouri play out on a courtroom screen, including declarations of love, dreams of a future together, and one chilling message sent the morning Eric Richins died. We walk through the texts, the tears on the witness stand, and what prosecutors appear to be building around motive. Plus, we hear from the paramour himself after he reached out to Hidden True Crime mid-livestream. Sponsors: For 50% off your order, head to ⁠https://DailyLook.com⁠ and use code HIDDEN. Visit ⁠https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN⁠ to explore coverage. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, we break down one of the most technical — but potentially revealing — days of the Kouri Richins trial. Day 7 focused almost entirely on the finances, as a forensic accountant walked the jury through thousands of records showing mounting debt, bounced checks, payday lenders pulling daily payments, and what prosecutors say was a financial situation spiraling out of control in the months before Eric Richins’ death. We slow everything down and explain the complicated money trail step-by-step — from the HELOC and failed house flips to the Midway mansion deal, tax filings, and the $1.3 million in life insurance that was quickly spent after Eric died. And as we mark March 3rd — the night Eric likely died — we take a moment to remember the father of three at the center of this case before unpacking the testimony that prosecutors say points to motive. Sponsors: For 50% off your order, head to https://DailyLook.com and use code HIDDEN. Visit https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN to explore coverage. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices