Umar Ghumman: Digital Experiences Have a Brand Problem

Joe Burns is Partner and Head of Strategy at Quality Meats Creative in New York. His career includes senior strategy roles at Mother and BBH, and he's known for his provocative thinking on strategy, creativity, and the advertising industry.Joe and Pedro discuss why strategy is fundamentally about navigating uncertainty, making decisions without having all the answers, and finding ways to win when the outcome isn't guaranteed. They explore the difference between risk and uncertainty, why marketers should think more probabilistically, and how placing multiple bets can create opportunities for outsized returns.They also unpack the limitations of marketing science when applied too rigidly, why learning from campaigns matters as much as measuring their performance, and why strategy is ultimately about competition. Joe shares his perspective on what clients really value from agencies, how strategists can move further upstream into business decisions, and why the ability to simplify complex thinking into something people can act on remains one of the profession's greatest strengths.Resources talked about in this episode:On the Edge by Nate SilverThe Lean Startup by Eric RiesEating the Big Fish by Adam MorganThe Long and the Short of It by Les Binet and Peter FieldFollow Joe Burns:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeathome/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Grow Your Brain is a podcast of The Strategy Collective, a community for strategists to connect, exchange ideas, and sharpen their craft. Learn more and become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. The next Gathering Festival takes place October 6–8, 2027, in Banff, Alberta. Learn more at https://www.thegatheringfestival.com/Timestamps:00:00 The Gathering Festival Overview00:58 Welcome and Meeting Joe03:09 Strong Opinions, Loosely Held03:44 Deciding at Low Certainty06:40 Loss Aversion and Thinking Probabilistically10:57 Risk vs. Uncertainty14:20 Hedging Bets and Learning from Campaigns18:01 Making Strategy Followable21:26 Marketing Science and Aggregate Data26:44 Deductive vs. Abductive Logic27:36 The Enduring Role of Strategy31:23 Strategy Is About Competition34:50 Challenger vs. Category Leader38:06 What Clients Really Come to Agencies For41:43 Strategy Moving Upstream46:09 Joe's Intellectual Diet: Do, Feel, Then Think49:20 Where to Find Joe

Matilda “Tilly” Scullion is a New York-based Group Strategy Director at Havas. Her agency experience includes Anomaly, Grey, and Superunion, and she studied English at the University of Cambridge.Tilly and Pedro discuss why storytelling is part of doing strategy, not just presenting it. They explore how strategists balance analytical rigour with human understanding, turn research into a persuasive story, and stay open to information that challenges their initial assumptions. Tilly also shares what ghost stories taught her about making every word count, why understanding the right problem matters more than rushing towards a solution, and how involving creative partners early helps shape stronger strategic directions.Tilly will be teaching a class at the APG Canada School of Strategic Goodness on October 21, 2026 titled “The Art of Storytelling: How to Think in Stories, Not Slides.” Register here.Resources talked about in this episode:Truth, Lies, and Advertising: The Art of Account Planning by Jon SteelFollow Tilly Scullion:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tilly-scullion/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:53 Introduction to Tilly Scullion03:29 Tilly's Journey into Advertising06:18 The Duality of Strategy: Art and Science08:58 The Influence of Literature on Storytelling11:49 The Power of Ghost Stories in Communication14:22 Storytelling as a Strategic Tool17:04 The Balance of Qualitative and Quantitative Insights19:35 The Process of Building a Strategy22:19 The Role of Open-Mindedness in Strategy Development25:09 Navigating Hypotheses in Strategy27:49 Challenging Preconceived Notions29:28 The Importance of Contradictions35:53 Understanding the Right Problem38:45 The Role of Strategy in Creative Solutions42:19 Expanding the Role of Strategists44:33 Collaborating with Creative Partners

Hannah Tabor is the Group Strategy Director at Mother New York. Her work spans brands including Target, Bombay Sapphire, iShares, Dave & Buster’s, Seventh Generation, The Wall Street Journal, Stella Artois, Panera Bread, and Lee Jeans.Hannah and Pedro discuss how conversations with unexpected experts can lead to more inspiring insights. They explore why strategists need to look beyond their own cultural bubbles, make room for human conversations, and stay curious even as timelines shrink and AI makes quick answers easier to find. Hannah shares how outside perspectives can help teams see familiar categories differently, why being a beginner is valuable, and how to balance creative intuition with research. They also unpack the importance of a “curiosity diet” and making strategy clear enough for others to understand without losing what makes it interesting.Hannah will be teaching a class at the APG Canada School of Strategic Goodness on November 18th from 12pm-1pm EST titled “Strategy Has Left the Building: How to Turn Outsider Inputs Into Insider Insights.” Register here.Resources talked about in this episode:The Criterion CollectionFollow Hannah Tabor:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannahtabor/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:53 Introduction to Hannah Tabor01:49 Hannah's Journey into Advertising05:48 Cultural Perspectives: East Coast vs. West Coast09:03 Keeping a Pulse on the Outside World10:33 The Importance of Journalism in Strategy13:38 The Value of Human Conversations15:17 The Impact of AI on Human Interaction17:20 Inserting Friction into the Process20:03 Understanding Unexpected Experts21:38 The Value of Fresh Perspectives24:23 Embracing the Novice Mindset26:37 Defining Insight in Strategy28:47 The Art of Storytelling in Insights31:12 Balancing Qualitative and Quantitative Research33:42 Curiosity as a Core Competency37:42 The Importance of a Curiosity Diet43:04 Navigating Over-Intellectualization in Strategy

Samantha Francis is VP, Head of Strategy and Planning at Saatchi & Saatchi Canada in Toronto. Her career spans book publishing, digital and content marketing, professional services, client-side marketing, and agency strategy, with a focus on brand strategy, research, and effectiveness.Sam and Pedro discuss what brands actually are, and why building one ultimately comes down to creating and maintaining useful associations in people’s memories. They explore the difference between the positioning an organization wants and the brand image consumers actually carry around, why so much advertising drifts toward category sameness, and how brands can turn familiar product truths into more distinctive and emotionally resonant creative.Sam also unpacks the Toyota Canada "For What Matters Most" work and why good diagnosis requires knowing when to use quantitative research, when to go deeper with qualitative research, and when to acknowledge what you simply don’t know.Resources talked about in this episode:How to Read a Book by Mortimer J. Adler and Charles Van DorenNineteen Eighty-Four by George OrwellMiniMBA with Mark RitsonToyota Canada – For What Matters MostVolkswagen – Think Small and LemonVolvo Trucks – The Epic SplitFollow Samantha Francis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samanthafrancis/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:53 Introduction to Samantha Francis03:17 From Publishing to Strategy: A Unique Journey05:53 The Importance of Strategy in Marketing08:13 Understanding the Client Perspective10:38 The Art of Making Strategic Choices12:55 Brand Building: Creating Lasting Memories15:21 The Role of Associations in Branding17:39 Awareness vs. Salience in Brand Strategy19:59 The Concept of Wastage in Marketing20:20 The Importance of Mental Availability23:58 Brand Image vs. Brand Positioning28:24 Creative Approaches in Automotive Advertising33:15 Emotional Storytelling in Brand Campaigns38:22 Balancing Quantitative and Qualitative Insights

Imogen Lee is a Senior Marketing Scientist at the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute, specializing in advertising effectiveness. Her work spans Category Entry Points, Distinctive Brand Assets, and advertising messaging.Imogen and Pedro discuss how brands grow by reaching more category buyers and building useful memory structures over time. They explore why narrow targeting can limit growth, why “wastage” is often misunderstood, and why clicks and engagement are poor substitutes for actual business outcomes. Imogen also unpacks how marketers can use Category Entry Points, Distinctive Brand Assets, and mental and physical availability to make advertising more effective, easier to process, and more likely to be remembered in buying situations.Resources talked about in this episode:How Brands Grow by Byron SharpHow Brands Grow Part 2 by Byron Sharp and Jenni RomaniukBuilding Distinctive Brand Assets by Jenni RomaniukBetter Brand Health by Jenni RomaniukMarketing: Theory, Evidence, Practice by Byron SharpMissing the Target? Investigating Targeted Advertising by Imogen LeeAre Swede Dreams Made of This? IKEA, Wicker and the Art of Staying on Brand by Imogen LeeNielsen NetEffect (CPG) meta analysis: “There is no correlation between CTR and ROI” (study)Engagement on Facebook: When it matters (report)Follow Imogen Lee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/imogen-lee/Follow the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute:  https://www.linkedin.com/school/ehrenbergbass/posts/?feedView=allFollow Pedro Porto Alegre: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:53 Introduction and Time Zones02:20 Imogen's Journey into Marketing Science04:21 Research Focus: Targeted Advertising06:15 The Evolution of Targeting in Digital Media09:09 The Importance of Reach for Brands11:46 Distinctive Brand Assets and Category Entry Points14:09 Mental and Physical Availability Framework17:41 Bridging the Gap Between Academia and Practice20:08 Understanding Loyalty in Marketing22:08 Targeting Strategies in Marketing25:59 Understanding Target Markets vs. Actual Buyers28:21 Rethinking Wastage in Marketing31:15 The Disconnect Between Clicks and Business Outcomes34:49 Building Useful Memory Structures in Advertising38:22 The Importance of Message Clarity in Advertising40:33 Developing Effective Category Entry Points43:24 Cultural Cues in Advertising46:24 Embracing Marketing Science for Better Decisions

Padmini Mangunta is a strategist whose career spans senior roles at Interbrand, Barkley OKRP, Intouch Group, McCann New York, and McKinney.Padmini and Pedro discuss why strategists need to get more comfortable with human contradiction, tension, judgment, and emotional nuance. They unpack the limits of personas when they stand alone, the importance of asking better questions, and why great strategy often comes from understanding people as fluid, dynamic, and sometimes inconsistent human beings.Padmini will be teaching a class on the APG Canada School of Strategic Goodness on September 9, 2026 titled: “No more cliches: How to defy stereotypes and meaningfully connect with consumers”. Register here: https://www.apgcanada.ca/event-calendar/#id=198&cid=1396&wid=201Resources talked about in this episode:The More Beautiful Question by Warren BergerTed LassoWorld Cup fan video: https://x.com/AllFutbolMX/status/2071719403331232091?lang=enFollow Padmini Mangunta:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/padminimangunta/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:53 Introduction and Background05:28 Career Journey and Transition to Advertising10:48 The Role of Journalism in Strategy17:31 Understanding the Customer: Beyond Personas22:20 Exploring Human Tension and Judgment26:07 Balancing Nuance and Simplification in Strategy31:15 The Importance of Empathy in Storytelling38:29 Understanding Empathy and Human Connection

Claudia Aguirre is a Calgary-based brand strategist, qualitative researcher, and consultant with more than 20 years of experience across Mexico, the US Hispanic market, Latin America, Canada, and Europe. She began her career in research and planning in Mexico, working with firms including Leo Burnett, JWT, FCB, and Research International, before eventually building her own consulting practice focused on research, branding, civic causes, not-for-profits, and sustainable brands.This conversation between Claudia Aguirre and Pedro Porto Alegre explores strategy through Claudia’s deeply human lens: getting out into the world, observing real behaviour, and turning it into insights that creatives can actually build from. Claudia reflects on her early days in planning in Latin America and why great strategists often come from unexpected paths, before diving into why leaving the desk is essential for good strategy. They also discuss vulnerability as a strategic skill, how culture and language shape what people are willing to share, and the role of AI in modern strategy—useful for the groundwork, but no substitute for real-world observation, perspective, and judgment.Resources talked about in this episode:The Jay Chiat AwardsBalzac and La Comédie HumaineGenerative AI enhances individual creativity but reduces the collective diversity of novel content by Anil R. Doshi and Oliver P. Hauser, Science AdvancesPoll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share by Emily Ekins, Cato Institute / YouGovFollow Claudia Aguirre:https://www.linkedin.com/in/aguirreclaudia/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/ Listen to full episodes wherever you get your podcasts:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033uubqHEgCKhsEtBQzMwDApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grow-your-brain/id1896893094YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsxF4y-bl38Gcdi1FSSVROMnK3Ct-QLYTJoin The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Grow Your Brain Podcast00:49 The Gathering Festival Overview01:13 Claudia Aguirre’s Career Journey04:17 Building the Planning Profession10:43 Why Strategists Must Get Out Into the World17:37 Research, Human Behavior, and Creative Collaboration20:49 Observation, Insights, and the Brief28:40 Vulnerability as a Strategic Skill33:33 Culture, Language, and Connecting With People41:07 AI, Originality, and Doing the Real Work

Umar Ghumman is an experience strategist and founder of NewBrains, a website strategy studio built around the intersection of new technologies and enduring human behaviour. Over his career, Umar has worked across digital agencies, startups, Publicis, and VML, where he served as Chief Experience Strategy Officer.This conversation explores how brands should think about websites, customer experience, AI, positioning, and distinctiveness in digital environments. Umar Ghumman explains why websites should be treated as complete buying systems that build both physical and mental availability, and why generic digital experiences are becoming less effective as AI increasingly compares, summarizes, and filters brands.The episode also looks at the shift from social media to AI, the trade-offs between privacy and convenience, and how brand positioning should show up online. Pedro and Umar discuss how brands become habits, why consistency needs variation, and how developing taste and judgment in an AI-shaped world comes from experience, exposure, and feedback rather than aesthetics alone.Resources talked about in this episode:A New Operating System for Brand Building in the Age of AI by Umar GhummanThe Social DilemmaThe Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana ZuboffFollow Umar Ghumman:https://www.linkedin.com/in/umarghumman/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/ Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:01:15 Umar’s Background and the NewBrains Perspective02:58 From the Social Media Shift to AI05:07 Privacy, Trust, and the Pull of Convenience08:23 Websites as Complete Buying Systems10:08 Websites, Physical Availability, and Mental Availability13:49 Bringing Brand Positioning to Life Online15:54 Balancing Immersive Experiences with Utility18:38 How to Define Brand Positioning23:14 How Positioning Drives Website Conversion24:58 Measuring Website Success27:46 Customer Journeys and Brand-Rooted Experiences28:34 AI’s Role in Modern Brand Building30:10 Consistency, Variation, and Distinctiveness32:13 How Brands Become Habits35:15 Customer Centricity Without Sameness38:22 Developing Taste and Judgment

Marc Binkley is an evidence-based marketing consultant, President of the Calgary Marketing Association, and co-host of the Sleeping Barber podcast. Through his consultancy, Quatical, he helps organizations apply marketing science to brand and business growth.This conversation explores how evidence-based thinking can improve marketing decisions, why digital measurement has distorted our understanding of effectiveness, and what marketers can learn from the scientific method. Marc and Pedro examine the limitations of the traditional marketing funnel, how people actually make buying decisions, and why better diagnosis often matters more than having more tactics.They also discuss mental and physical availability, the 95–5 Rule, the Theory of Constraints, and how marketers can build a stronger latticework of mental models without mistaking any single framework for reality.Resources talked about in this episode:A More Beautiful Question by Warren BergerHow Brands Grow by Byron SharpThe Long and the Short of It by Les Binet and Peter FieldThe Goal by Eliyahu M. GoldrattFuture Demand by James HurmanBetter Brand Health by Jenni RomaniukFollow Marc Binkley:https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/https://sleepingbarber.ca/https://calgarycma.com/https://www.quatical.com/Follow Pedro Porto Alegre:https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedroportoalegre/Join The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at http://thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Marc Binkley and His Work03:31 The Importance of Evidence-Based Marketing06:10 The Evolution of Marketing Measurement08:32 The Impact of Digital Marketing11:00 How Digital Changed Marketing Thinking13:37 The Limits of Digital Measurement16:18 Why Small Brands Default to Social Media17:21 The Importance of Asking Better Questions20:36 Can Scientific Thinking Scale Across Marketing Teams?22:55 Why New Ideas Threaten Core Beliefs23:16 The Origins of the Marketing Funnel24:59 The Strongest Arguments For and Against the Funnel27:10 How Consumers Actually Make Buying Decisions28:32 Mental and Physical Availability29:48 Satisficing and the Reality of Consumer Choice31:19 The Role of Mental Models in Strategy33:18 Understanding the Theory of Constraints36:21 Why Diagnosis Matters More Than Tactics37:25 The 95–5 Rule and Future Demand40:29 Alternatives to the Traditional Funnel41:23 The 95–5 Cash Flow Funnel43:05 Measuring Mental Availability45:11 Turning Marketing Research Into Action

Jon Crowley is a Toronto-based brand strategist, Partner, Head of Strategy, and SVP at FUSE Create. He is also the writer behind A Benign Conspiracy and a founding editor of Rebrief, an independent Canadian journal of advertising.This conversation explores the realities of modern strategy, agency culture, and the tension between creativity, business, data, and measurement. Jon Crowley shares his perspective on what strategists often misunderstand about their role, why agencies need to better understand how clients make money, and how the pursuit of certainty has shaped marketing’s obsession with attribution, funnels, and performance metrics.The episode also covers the importance of writing as a way of thinking, the value of intentional friction in creative work, the role of print in a digital world, and why individual success in advertising is largely a myth. Jon argues that strategy is ultimately an elevated form of educated guessing, where the strategist’s job is to increase the probability of success by understanding the business, the audience, the market, and the creative problem clearly enough to point teams toward better decisions.Resources talked about in this episode:A Benign Conspiracy by Jon CrowleyRebriefThe WalrusMonocleUnderstanding Media: The Extensions of Man by Marshall McLuhanHow Humans Decide (Oxford Saïd Business School / WPP research on brand preference)ShoresyA Big Life In Advertising by Mary Wells LawrenceFollow Jon Crowley:LinkedInA Benign ConspiracyFollow Pedro Porto Alegre:LinkedInJoin The Strategy Collective to connect with, learn from, and support the country’s strategic planning community. Become a member at https://www.thestrategycollective.co/.Grow Your Brain is proudly sponsored by The Gathering, the award-winning yearly brand festival hosted in the Canadian Rockies. Learn more at thegatheringfestival.com.Timestamps:00:00 The Indie Agency Experience06:25 The Importance of Team Culture11:59 The Journey into Writing and Strategy17:12 Launching Rebrief: A New Perspective on Advertising22:34 The Value of Print in a Digital World22:57 Understanding Marketing in Business Context28:00 The Importance of Clear Objectives in Briefs33:25 The Shift Towards Performance Marketing38:49 The Role of Media Mix Modeling44:14 The Challenge of Teaching Young Strategists