From Burnout to Wholeness: Solitude, Nature, and Social Change with 86-Year-Old Author and Teacher Parker Palmer

This week, I talk with Parker Palmer in one of the most intimate and expansive conversations I’ve had on Good Work. Parker is an author, activist, and teacher whose ideas have shaped generations. But what moves me most is his honesty. We talk about the winding path that led him from academic life to community organizing to a Quaker learning community where he rebuilt his inner world. We explore discernment, solitude, “Circles of Trust”, and what it means to listen to the voice of your soul—especially in seasons of burnout or heartbreak. At 86, Parker reflects on aging, democracy, vocation, and his belief that the heart can break in two ways: it can shatter, or it can break open into greater capacity. If you’ve ever felt pulled toward a path you “can’t not do,” or if your inner life is asking more of you right now, this conversation is for you. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) – Intro (00:42) – “Deep in the oatmeal” and the role of humor in a serious life (02:11) – How Parker’s spiritual life slowly took shape (13:08) – Choosing to stay at Pendle Hill—and what that meant for Parker’s family (23:45) – How to tell the difference between a passing idea and a true calling (31:40) – A radically different way of being in community (40:45) – Why presence matters more than fixing (52:35) – The unlikely beginnings of the Center for Courage & Renewal (01:05:17) – What 30 years of building an organization has taught Parker (01:15:06) – Solitude, nature, and marriage as sustaining practices (01:22:31) – Aging, loss, and staying open to what’s next (01:30:39) – The two ways a heart can break Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Jeff Sheldon, designer and founder of Ugmonk. Jeff’s story is about more than building a successful brand—it’s about choosing craft over scale and staying true to what you love. We talk about why he turned down Shark Tank at the peak of a viral Kickstarter, how his childhood love of drawing grew into a career in design, and what he’s learned about perfectionism, entrepreneurship, and the emotional cost of mastery. We also explore the quieter parts of his journey: the role his marriage has played, his philosophy of work and life, and how he continues to create intentionally 16 years in. If you’re trying to make meaningful things without losing yourself in the process, this conversation is for you. Let’s get to it. Partner Deals Proper: Save $500 off onboarding when you mention Good Work at https://workwithproper.com. In this episode: (00:00) – Intro (01:55) – Why Jeff turned down Shark Tank (04:35) – The foresight behind saying no (06:59) – Jeff’s philosophy of work and life (10:04) – First steps into design (13:08) – Nurturing creativity (19:13) – Why Jeff doesn’t call himself an entrepreneur (25:49) – A relentless standard of excellence (34:46) – The emotional cost of mastery (42:48) – Doing vs. learning on the internet (46:43) – Partnership and support (54:15) – Keys to a lasting relationship (01:01:00) – Winning his first t-shirt contest (01:04:31) – From $18k goal to $430k raised (01:08:06) – Gather vs. Analog (01:16:08) – Success without wealth (01:22:30) – The tradeoffs of a bespoke business (01:25:03) – Lessons from early struggles (01:32:36) – Holding to an ethos in a bigger culture (01:35:56) – Becoming world-class (01:39:34) – Jeff's most beautiful future (01:40:35) – Who Jeff is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com.Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Dr. Emily Anhalt—a clinical psychologist, founder, and writer who’s spent the past 15 years exploring what it really means to be emotionally healthy. You might know her from her TED Talk or her work at Coa, but in this conversation, we go deeper. We talk about growing up in Silicon Valley, the pressure of being a high-achieving kid, and why so many successful people still carry unresolved grief. Emily shares how ADHD shaped her early life, what led her to leave pre-med for psychology, and how emotional patterns from childhood often resurface in our work and relationships. We also dive into what actually makes therapy effective and why hitting your goals doesn’t always bring peace. If you’ve ever built something meaningful but still felt unsettled, or questioned what’s really driving your ambition, I think this episode will speak to you. Let’s get to it. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:52) - How a beanbag chair and snacks helped Emily unlock her best work (08:01) - Growing up inside the Silicon Valley success machine (09:45) - Why high performers need a different kind of therapy  (11:53) - The story of Emily’s parents and how they ended up in the Valley (13:54) - Reframing ADHD as a strength, not a stigma (16:33) - The early experiences that shaped Emily’s emotional lens (23:40) - How Emily chose psychology—and what kept her going (28:40) - The moment therapy stopped being about symptoms (33:06) - Why grief is a necessary companion to growth (38:21) - The origin story of a company built around emotional fitness (42:30) - What changes when you go from therapist to founder (45:27) - The qualities of high-integrity therapy (51:26) - How Emily knew it was time to write a book (58:20) - What really keeps entrepreneurs stuck—and how to get unstuck (01:02:09) - What it feels like when success leaves you empty (01:05:32) - How to rebuild when your goals stop making sense (01:07:44) - Why achieving meaning isn’t the same as feeling it (01:11:06) - Why therapy often gets harder before it gets better (01:12:47) - Abandoning hard feelings before healing happens (01:13:40) - The isolation of success—and how to find support (01:21:17) - How overachievers get trapped in burnout (01:29:26) - Healthy ways to process anger (01:33:46) - What makes Emily world-class? (01:34:09) - Emily's most beautiful future (01:34:49) - Who Emily is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com.Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Mark Manson—best known for The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck—about what success really costs and why it often leaves us wanting more. Mark and I go deeper than I’ve heard him go before: we explore his upbringing, the complex role faith and community have played in his life, and how he’s learned to follow his internal compass—even when it meant walking away from huge opportunities. After climbing to the top of the publishing world and getting a taste of Hollywood, Mark has returned to where he started: creating online for the joy of it. This conversation is about more than career moves—it’s about identity, meaning, and the choices that define a thoughtful life. If you’ve ever achieved a big goal and asked, “Now what?”—this one’s for you. Let’s get to it. In this episode: (00:00) – Intro (02:32) – The golden egg mindset that changed Mark's career (04:49) – Lessons from a “high-volatility” childhood (09:46) – Mark’s secret to depth (and viral hits) (13:51) – Losing faith—and what Mark misses most (17:58) – The loneliness no success can solve (28:09) – What real friendship looks like (31:19) – How to go deeper with the people who matter (36:51) – What happens after success? (41:47) – Chasing Hollywood—and hitting a wall (45:38) – Why Mark turned away from traditional media (49:23) – The lingering pull of prestige and the trap of status (50:48) – Why Mark is still in LA—and what he found there (51:40) – How to know what to say yes to (and what to walk away from) (56:27) – What Mark is optimizing for today (59:02) – The one thing Mark wants to be excellent at (01:02:35) – The “shit sandwich” Mark’s happy to eat (01:03:58) – Turning down a seven-figure book deal (01:18:28) – YouTube vs writing (01:21:34) – How much thought goes into Mark’s content (01:25:04) – Is the business sustainable? (01:27:03) – Reinventing the podcast—again (01:33:19) – Mark’s most beautiful future (01:36:33) – Who Mark is becoming Key Takeaways Be the goose, not the egg hunter. Rather than chasing after “golden eggs” of success, become the kind of person who can generate them consistently. Mark’s father taught him that real security and fulfillment come from developing your own capacity to create value again and again—not from trying to protect or hoard what you’ve already made. Choose depth over status when building community. Mark reflects on how true community—like that found in religious, family, or workplace settings—is built on commitment and shared legacy. Recreational groups and hobbies, while enjoyable, often lack the deeper sense of belonging. If you’re feeling lonely or disconnected, consider what you’re willing to commit to. Build a life that prioritizes fun over status. After years of high-profile projects and burnout, Mark realized that chasing prestige wasn’t worth the cost. His new rule: if it’s not fun, he doesn’t do it. With success comes more invitations to chase status—but the most fulfilled people are those who stay grounded in what brings them joy and meaning. Don’t confuse cultural clout with real impact. Despite already having a massive online audience, Mark admits being drawn to traditional media for its perceived prestige. He ultimately found that building directly with his audience—via his creator business and YouTube—was more rewarding and impactful. Recognition is nice, but it shouldn’t dictate your creative choices. The best relationships are honest, non-transactional, and earned through time. Deep friendships grow through vulnerability, shared values, and a willingness to say the hard thing. In a world increasingly shaped by status, the relationships that matter most are built on trust, not utility. Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with someone who’s been on my dream guest list since day one—Ami Vitale. Ami is a National Geographic photographer and filmmaker whose work has taken her from war zones to wildlife sanctuaries, always in pursuit of the deeper story. But this conversation goes far beyond her remarkable resume. We talk about how picking up a camera transformed her from a shy, introverted kid into one of the world’s most powerful visual storytellers. Ami opens up about what it really means to bear witness, the emotional cost of telling the truth, and why she eventually turned her lens away from conflict and toward hope, healing, and our connection with the natural world. This episode is about dignity, presence, and the quiet leadership that comes from listening well and seeing clearly. I promise, you’ll never look at a photograph the same way again. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (03:06) - How picking up a camera gave Ami a voice (05:06) - Why introverts might see the world more clearly (06:21) - Knocking on doors with a camera (12:32) - Wanting to be a photographer—and being told “no” (16:27) - Leaving a steady job to bet on herself (23:30) - What war zones taught Ami about storytelling (29:26) - The moment Ami knew she had to walk away from war zones (38:08) - From grief to hope: finding a new kind of story (51:26) - The story that changed everything (59:42) - Why wildlife stories are human stories (01:07:22) - One image that moved the world: Steve Winter’s P-22 (01:13:41) - Capturing moments with dignity and depth (01:15:59) - The relationships behind the photographs (01:25:51) - Reflecting on a life of good work (01:28:02) - Barrett on the fears and hopes behind Good Work Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com.Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Mike Macdonald, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and the youngest head coach in the NFL. Mike opens up about his journey from coaching high-schoolers as a college student to leading elite defenses with the Ravens and Wolverines—and now, running one of the most storied franchises in football. We explore how he’s balancing tradition and innovation, what it really means to set the standard inside a world-class organization, and how the Seahawks are training their players mentally as much as physically. This conversation is a look behind the scenes at what it takes to become the kind of leader who earns trust, embraces the grind, and stays true to their values under pressure.. Whether you’re leading a team, building something from the ground up, or just trying to take the next step in your own growth, there’s something here for you. Let’s get to it. In this episode: (00:00) – The youngest head coach in the NFL (02:23) – Why Mike Macdonald cracks dad jokes in the NFL (04:43) – Mike's transition from player to coach (14:42) – Lessons learned under Todd Grantham (17:47) – Two coaches, two styles—what Mike really learned from both (22:44) – “I almost walked away from coaching” (25:41) – How a phone call from the Ravens changed everything (34:05) – What Mike learned from both Harbaugh brothers (39:55) – Leading under fire: how to stay steady in the storm (42:51) – The moment Mike realized he might be head coach material (48:29) – Inside Mike’s NFL head coach interview process (52:49) – Mike’s 3-pillar philosophy for leading a team (54:54) – Rethinking what it means to be “the head coach” (58:02) – Setting the standard—and getting everyone to buy in (01:01:32) – How to build a culture players actually believe in (01:04:07) – The weight of being the one who sets the tone (01:08:34) – Mike on mental toughness—for himself and his team (01:16:20) – Taking the reins from Pete Carroll (01:24:22) – What makes Mike world-class? (01:26:08) – Mike’s most beautiful future (01:27:39) – Who Mike is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com.Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This episode is a special one. After a year of interviewing thoughtful, world-class guests, I wanted to share more of my own story. So I asked my dear friend, and episode 01 guest, James Clear, to turn the mic on me. We talk about the formative moments in my life— from childhood patterns and baseball memories to the inner work I’ve done to stop striving without purpose and start accepting myself more fully. I share why I believe that most successful people already know what to do—they just need help getting past their individual emotional blockers. We explore the coaching frameworks I use, the lessons I’m still learning, and why I no longer believe I have to suffer to do good in the world. This is the most personal conversation I’ve ever had on the show, and I’m incredibly grateful to James for holding it with so much care. Let’s get to it! Partner DealsProper: Save $500 off onboarding when you mention Good Work at https://workwithproper.com. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (04:37) - Barrett’s favorite exercises for processing change and transition (15:12) - How self-awareness evolves (20:59) - Barrett's early years and why the Discovery program was so meaningful (28:06) - How baseball taught Barrett to deal with pressure (37:45) - A compliment Barrett still carries—and what it taught him about self-worth (40:18) - What Barrett learned from his dad (45:59) - Why Barrett used to wait to ask for help (50:04) - Learning to hear “no” without rewriting your self-worth (52:23) - Can you do good work and still want credit? (55:59) - What shaped Barrett’s curiosity about the world (01:00:28) - Seeing the cost of inherited patterns (01:04:07) - Reflections on adolescence, faith, and finding purpose (01:11:51) - When others see your strengths before you do (01:15:01) - Why Barrett left a dream job with no plan (01:18:00) - Surrendering to the work you’re made to do (01:25:02) - Leading with thoughts or feelings? (01:27:13) - What Barrett imagined fatherhood would be—and what it became (01:29:02) - Modeling emotional health and growth (01:31:27) - What Barrett would learn by trading places with his wife (01:32:47) - The truth about balancing family and entrepreneurship (01:37:51) - The kinds of people Barrett is best at coaching (01:41:07) - What Barrett would teach if given a mic and 30 minutes to prep (01:42:22) - Barrett’s proudest achievement—and what’s next Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com.Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

We’re back for Season 02 of Good Work! I’ve always believed there’s more to success than titles, wealth, or the next business tactic. This season, I want to explore the kind of work that calls us higher, to work rooted in purpose, values, and service to others. It’s about asking bigger questions: What are we here for? How do we reach our full potential and make a meaningful impact? Join me as we go beyond the typical surface-level business strategies to uncover the inner journey that shapes authentic, fulfilling outward success. If you’re ready to dig deep, I can’t wait to share this season with you. Let’s get to it! Connect with Barrett Barrett’s newsletter: https://BarrettBrooks.com  X / Twitter: https://twitter.com/barrettabrooks  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barrettabrooks  Subscribe and stay in touch Website: https://goodworkshow.com  Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-work-with-barrett-brooks/id1738711388  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2EK7FaM8yTSyoHusQjHkEh  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks

This week, I talk with Matt D. Smith—better known on the internet as MDS. Matt is a world-class designer and the founder of Shift Nudge, where he’s building the Juilliard of design education. Over his 20-year career, Matt has generated millions in revenue while helping clients craft iconic visual identities. But beyond the work itself, this conversation is about the inner journey behind outward success. We dive into how Matt and his wife built a marriage that serves as the foundation of his career, the three major turning points that shaped his path, and what might have happened had he chosen differently. Most importantly, we explore how Matt transitioned from seeking external validation to being guided by a deeper sense of peace and joy in his work. This is a conversation about success, self-awareness, and the courage to forge your own path. Let’s get to it. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:20) - Is writing online still relevant? (09:51) - A pivotal childhood moment (15:12) - Lessons from crop dusting (20:54) - Discovering a passion for design (26:31) - College life and relationships (29:41) - The early ingredients to Matt's successful marriage (40:27) - Choosing to settle down in Athens, GA (43:54) - Raising four kids (45:31) - Gaining notoriety with the Float Label design pattern (48:47) - Moving to San Francisco? (52:04) - Building a community in Athens (57:56) - The shift to online education (01:08:50) - The downside of putting all your eggs in one basket (01:12:17) - Launching Shift Nudge (01:18:32) - Dealing with self-doubt (01:23:32) - Launching during COVID (01:28:16) - The stats behind Shift Nudge's first launch (01:33:20) - The emotional and psychological challenges of success (01:40:22) - Dealing with “little t trauma” (01:54:31) - What makes Matt world-class? (01:56:38) - Matt's most beautiful future (01:58:36) - Who Matt is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

This week, I talk with Tina Tower, founder of Her Empire Builder, a membership community helping women start and scale online course businesses. Tina’s journey to success has been anything but straightforward. She launched a tutoring center at 20, built a franchise that nearly broke her, and sold it in a deal that taught her some tough lessons about business and burnout.  We dive into what she learned from scaling too fast, how to avoid the potential pitfalls of selling a company, and how she transitioned from a high-stress business to running a wildly profitable $2 million-a-year company—with less stress and more joy than ever before. If you’ve ever wrestled with balancing wealth, meaning, and a lifestyle you truly love, this conversation is for you. Let’s get to it! In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (02:52) - How a toy bear became a symbol of Tina's entrepreneurial journey (04:29) - Tina's chaotic childhood and leaving home at 14 (06:58) - Discovering Tony Robbins and rewriting her story (13:00) - Tina's mindset shift from survival to entrepreneurship (16:05) - “If you can dream it, you can achieve it”—or can you?  (19:00) - Hustling to stay afloat (22:19) - Hitting rock bottom and facing failure (31:00) - Scaling too fast—when growth becomes a trap (36:00) - When success feels like a burden (39:43) - Selling the business—a deal that was too good to be true (46:10) - Running away to find herself again (52:05) - Accidentally starting a seven-figure business (01:01:00) - What it’s like running a $2M/year business without burning out (01:04:20) - Letting go of overworking (01:09:00) - Choosing success without sacrifice (01:13:00) - When ambition clashes with contentment (01:18:00) - Realizing success doesn't mean burnout (01:23:45) - Barrett's approach to coaching (01:34:36) - What makes Tina world-class? (01:34:54) - Tina's most beautiful future (01:35:47) - Who Tina is becoming Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.