MINI EPISODE: Keeping Schools Safe from Moms for Liberty (with Laura Pappano)

The Bible remains one of the world's most influential books, impacting  believers and non-believers alike. As Christian nationalists gain more power over American politics right now, it's as important as ever to understand how the Bible is used to justify laws about abortion, gay marriage, child abuse, and more. Luckily, Bible scholar Dan McClellan is here to give us the data. He's become wildly famous on TikTok unpacking what the Bible really says about these contentious issues, and many more besides. His new book is called The Bible Says So: What We Get Right and Wrong about Scripture's Most Controversial Issues. Dan joins us to talk about it, about what it's like being a prominent TikToker, about his personal background, about comics, and more.   Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  About the Author Dan McClellan is a public scholar of the Bible and religion and author of the New York Times bestseller, The Bible Says So: What We Get Right and Wrong about Scripture's Most Controversial Issues. He received his PhD in theology and religion from the University of Exeter. He enjoys confronting misinformation related to the Bible and religion online. He goes by @maklelan on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. 

The Department of Education is being dismantled before our eyes. Why does it matter, and can it be rescued? Reporter Laura Pappano joins us with updates on these things, and her latest visit to the Moms for Liberty conference in Florida, where a new tactic is emerging.  Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes "Moms for quote-unquote 'Liberty,' (with Laura Pappano)," Relationscapes (September 2, 2025) Relationscapes, "How Children's Rights Impact Everyone (with Adam Benforado)." Recent Laura Pappano articles:  "Moms (and Cool, Young Podcasters) for Liberty," Slate (October 20, 2025). "At Moms for Liberty summit, parents urged to turn their grievances into lawsuits," The Hechinger Report (October 20, 2025). "The new reality with universal school vouchers: Homeschoolers, marketing, pupil churn," The Hechinger Report (November 6, 2025).   About the Author Laura Pappano is an award-winning education journalist, author, and founder of The New Haven Student Journalism Project. Her latest book is called School Moms: Parent Activism, Partisan Politics and the Battle for Public Education. She is a former education columnist for The Boston Globe, and has published work in places like The New York Times Magazine, Vanity Fair, Salon, The Washington Post, USA Today, Slate, The Atlantic, and The Christian Science Monitor. 

Shen Yang broke the law simply by being born. It was the 1980s in China, and according to the One Child Policy, her parents weren't allowed to have her. They sent her away with relatives, and what followed were years of cruelty and neglect, but also defiance and the will to thrive. It's hard to find stories directly from excess children. Shen Yang's book is a rare gem. It's called More Than One Child: Memoirs of an Illegal Daughter. She joins us to talk about it in this episode.  Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  About the Author Shen Yang is author of the book, More Than One Child: Memoirs of an Illegal Daughter.

Chelsey Goodan says that for too long, teenage girls have been undervalued and overlooked. As a longtime tutor and mentor to hundreds of girls from many different backgrounds, Chelsey realized why so many were anxious and hurting. Because too many people treat teenage girls as problems to be controlled or solved. Chelsey says they have much to offer on topics like perfectionism, friendship, identity, shame, power, and more.  Whether you’re a parent, teacher, mentor, or just curious, this conversation will help you better appreciate what teenage girls have to offer.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes DemocraSHE, empowering young women to become leaders.  About the Author Chelsey Goodan is the founder of The Teenage Girl Cabal, which is a secret society of girls who are changing the world. As the author of the USA Today bestselling book Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, Goodan reveals how the wisdom of teenage girls can create positive change for society at large. After 16 years working as an academic tutor and mentoring girls from underserved communities, Goodan gathered key insights about teenage girls’ struggles with self-doubt, authenticity, confidence, leadership, connection, and power.

What does real support for trans kids look like in this fraught political moment? Ben V. Greene audaciously but persuasively suggests we try a joy-centered approach. Greene explains what parents and other loved ones can do when they’re uncertain about how to be there for trans kids, and why curiosity and compassion—not being perfect—makes all the difference. Green also explores what affirming therapy really is (and isn’t), how belonging improves mental health, and why love and understanding—not panic—save lives. This is a hopeful, human conversation for anyone trying to support a trans child or teen. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.    About the Guest Ben V. Greene is author of the book, My Child Is Trans, Now What? A Joy-Centered Approach to Support. As a transgender man, Ben works as an LGBTQ+ inclusion consultant who has dedicated his career to spreading empathy, awareness, and understanding about the transgender community. He is active on the speaking circuit, with audiences ranging from the UK’s Diversity Live! to NASA. Ben is a guest lecturer on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Cornell University in addition to serving on the board of the Tufts Master’s Degree in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. He resides in St. Louis, Missouri.

He was told he was broken. He was promised a cure. It was all a lie.  Lucas Wilson, author of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors' Stories of Conversion Therapy, takes us inside the real experiences of queer people forced to try and change their so-called "same-sex attraction." Lucas shares both his own story and those of survivors, revealing the psychological, moral, and spiritual harms of conversion therapy. He also explains why stories, not just statistics, are the most powerful way to confront the discredited practice. As the U.S. Supreme Court gears up to overturn conversion therapy bans, these stories matter now more than ever.  See the complete transcript at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes Boy Erased Chris Walker, "Supreme Court Appears Poised to Strike Down State Bans on Conversion Therapy," truthout.org. "Practices of so-called 'conversion therapy," report to the UN. About the Author Dr. Lucas Wilson is a SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Toronto Mississauga. As a former evangelical and a survivor of conversion therapy, he is the editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy (JKP Books, 2025). He is also the author of At Home with the Holocaust: Postmemory, Domestic Space, and Second-Generation Holocaust Narratives (Rutgers University Press, 2025), which received the Jordan Schnitzer First Book Publication Award. He is also the co-editor of Emerging Trends in Third-Generation Holocaust Literature (Lexington Books, 2023), a collection of academic essays about the writings of grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, which has been named an “essential” title by Choice Reviews. His public-facing writing has appeared in The Advocate, Queerty, LGBTQ Nation, and Religion Dispatches, among other venues, and his academic work has appeared in Modern Language Studies, Canadian Jewish Studies, Flannery O’Connor Review, Journal of Jewish Identities, and Studies in American Jewish Literature and in edited collections published by The MLA, SUNY Press, The University of Alabama Press, and DIO Press. He is currently working on two interrelated monograph projects that examine evangelical homophobia and transphobia in the U.S.

Who would choose to bring children into today’s world? Between climate change, economic strain, political conflict, and growing uncertainty about the future, more people today say they feel uncertain about parenthood, especially progressive people. Philosophers Anastasia Berg and Rachel Wiseman—authors of What Are Children For?—explore the personal, political, and philosophical stakes of having kids. From the tedium and vulnerability of early parenting to the profound meaning and joy it can bring, this conversation opens space for anyone wrestling with one of life’s biggest decisions.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guests Anastasia Berg is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at University of California, Irvine. She serves as editor of ​The Point magazine, a Chicago-based literary magazine that publishes philosophical writing on everyday life and culture. Rachel Wiseman is managing editor of The Point. Together they wrote What Are Children For?: On Ambivalence and Choice.

Fatphobia is everywhere. It affects how we judge ourselves and each other. In this episode, philosopher Kate Manne exposes the social, ethical, and health-based consequences of anti-fat bias. Drawing on personal experience and sharp cultural analysis, Manne challenges dieting myths, weight-loss fads, and societal pressure to be thin. She invites us to practice “body reflexivity,” the radical idea that our bodies exist for ourselves, not merely for others. She explains why physical movement, health, and self-care matter more than size, and why dismantling fatphobia is a social justice issue. This episode turns the tables on fatphobia in a world obsessed with thinness, offering a liberating perspective about bodies and wellness. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.    Show Notes Weight for It podcast Maintenance Phase podcast Da'Shaun L. Harrison, Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness Sabrina Strings, "How the Use of BMI Fetishizes White Embodiment and Racializes Fat Phobia," AMA Journal of Ethics Relationscapes, "Swipe Left on Romance," with Sabrina Strings   About the Guest Kate Manne is author of Down Girl, Entitled, and Unshrinking. She's an associate professor of philosophy at Cornell University where she’s been teaching since 2013. Before that, she was a junior fellow at the Harvard Society of Fellows. Manne did her graduate work in philosophy at MIT. Her Substack is called More to Hate. 

Like a lot of American women, Aubrey Hirsch grew up trying to channel her own rage into other emotions. Maybe she wasn't mad, she was really jealous. Maybe she wasn't pissed off, she was actually sad. Eventually, Aubrey realized she had been suppressing something vital. Sometimes being angry is the main thing she should be. Instead of always running from her outrage, now she channels it into informative, funny, sometimes furious feminist comics. Aubrey joins us to talk about how she uses illustration to call out sexism, why rage can be a powerful force for collective change, and how we can channel it individually right now to change some things for the better. Her new book is called Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America.    Show Notes Aubrey Hirsch, "Taking Back the Streets," The Nib, March 22, 2019. Eat the Damn Peach, and Other Love Stories (with Mary Catherine Starr)   About the Guest Aubrey Hirsch is author of Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America. She is a writer and illustrator living in New York. Her stories, essays, and comics have appeared in The New York Times, Vox, TIME Magazine, American Short Fiction, Black Warrior Review, The Rumpus, The Nib and elsewhere. She is author of a short story collection, Why We Never Talk About Sugar, and a flash fiction chapbook, This Will Be His Legacy. She has taught writing at Oberlin College, The University of Pittsburgh, Colorado College, Georgia College and State University, and Chatham University. She is recipient of a 2022 National Endowment for the Arts fellowship in Literature, an individual artist award from the Sustainable Arts Foundation, the Daehler Fellowship in Creative Writing from The Colorado College, and The Meek Award for Graphic Nonfiction from The Florida Review.  Subscribe to her (free!) Substack and follow her on Instagram @aubreyhirsch.

Are men “naturally” violent? Are they hardwired to provide and protect? Does their DNA demand they stray? These questions persist in debates about masculinity, but they’re often answered with lazy biology. In this episode, anthropologist Matthew Gutmann dismantles biologically grounded gender essentialist myths. Drawing on decades of research—from fatherhood in Mexico to gender shifts in China—Gutmann shows how culture, history, and politics shape what we call “masculinity.” We talk about the dangers of blaming “male nature,” how fatherhood gets redefined across cultures, and why understanding men as human beings first opens the door to more freedom and accountability. His book is called Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.    Show Notes “Detoxing Masculinity,” with Ronald Levant and Shana Pryor “Black and Beyond the Binary,” with KB Brookins “Masculinity, More Liberated and Free,” with Frederick Joseph “Learning about Today’s Masculinity from the Ancient Romans," with Mike Pope About the Guest Matthew Gutmann is Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Brown University. His research and teaching has focused on studies of men and masculinities; public health; politics; and the military. His latest book is Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short.