Detoxing Masculinity (with Ronald Levant and Shana Pryor)

Masculinity is having yet another moment—from TikTok alphas and tech bros up through the rise of the manosphere. It's because when society feels unstable, many people try to get back to basics. The problem is, those “basics” are a bunch of rigid, outdated masculinity norms—norms that helped create the very problems we're facing right now. In this episode, we dig into the research with psychologists Ronald Levant and Shana Pryor to understand how culture shapes masculinity, why it’s linked to violence and poor health, and what it might take to build something better. Their book is called The Tough Standard: The Hard Truths About Masculinity and Violence. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUESTS RONALD LEVANT is professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron. He is past president of the American Psychological Association and is one of the pioneer scholars on masculinity, having conducted masculinity studies for decades. SHAYNA PRYOR is a licensed psychologist currently working with active duty military. She studies masculinity, gender, and men’s experiences of sexual trauma and interpersonal violence. Together they are authors of The Tough Standard: The Hard Truths About Masculinity and Violence.

W hat if the place that made you feel most alive became the site of your deepest grief? Brandon Wolf grew up multiracial and queer in a small Oregon city, where fitting in felt impossible. Years later, he survived the Pulse nightclub shooting—an event that shattered his world and ignited a lifelong pursuit of justice. In this powerful episode, Brandon opens up about internalized racism, survivor’s guilt, and more hard truths from his memoir A Place For Us. Through pain and resilience, Brandon reminds us why creating spaces of belonging is not just vital—but revolutionary.   Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST Brandon Wolf is a nationally-recognized civil rights and gun safety advocate, and a seasoned communications expert. He currently serves as National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest LGBTQ+ civil rights organization. He is a frequent guest on MSNBC, CNN, and in print publications (CNN.com, USA Today, Newsweek, Teen Vogue, Washington Post, The Advocate, Out Magazine) weaving personal stories into calls to action. He was recognized by HuffPost as one of “30 modern-day LGBTQ pioneers” and was on Out Magazine’s list of the 100 most influential LGBTQ+ people in the world. His memoir is called A Place For Us.

What if the place that made you feel most alive became the site of your deepest grief? Brandon Wolf grew up multiracial and queer in a small Oregon city, where fitting in felt impossible. Years later, he survived the Pulse nightclub shooting—an event that shattered his world and ignited a lifelong pursuit of justice. In this powerful episode, Brandon opens up about internalized racism, survivor’s guilt, and more hard truths from his memoir A Place For Us. Through pain and resilience, Brandon reminds us why creating spaces of belonging is not just vital—but revolutionary.   Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST Brandon Wolf is a nationally-recognized civil rights and gun safety advocate, and a seasoned communications expert. He currently serves as National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest LGBTQ+ civil rights organization. He is a frequent guest on MSNBC, CNN, and in print publications (CNN.com, USA Today, Newsweek, Teen Vogue, Washington Post, The Advocate, Out Magazine) weaving personal stories into calls to action. He was recognized by HuffPost as one of “30 modern-day LGBTQ pioneers” and was on Out Magazine’s list of the 100 most influential LGBTQ+ people in the world. His memoir is called A Place For Us.

KB Brookins was struggling to know who they really were. And even though their quest for authenticity felt isolating, it couldn't happen in complete isolation. It took seeing someone else living more freely for KB to imagine new and better possibilities. That’s the paradox at the heart of becoming ourselves: We can’t do it alone. KB is a Black, queer, trans writer and visual artist from Texas. Their award-winning memoir is called Pretty. It traces how race, gender, queerness, and masculinity are deeply entangled, not just in theory, but in the body and in everyday life with other people. In this episode, KB invites us to break through our rigid ideas about gender roles, and to feel the liberating power of seeing—and being seen.   Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST KB Brookins is a Black, queer, and trans writer, educator, and cultural worker from Texas. Their debut memoir Pretty (2024) won the Great Lakes Colleges Association New Writers Award in Creative Nonfiction and the Dorothy Allison/Felice Picano Emerging Writer Award. Their writing has also appeared in HuffPost, Teen Vogue, Oxford American, Academy of American Poets, Poetry Society of America, and elsewhere. KB’s poetry chapbook How To Identify Yourself with a Wound (2022) won the Saguaro Poetry Prize, a Writer’s League of Texas Discovery Prize, and a Stonewall Honor Book Award. Their poetry collection Freedom House (2023), described as “urgent and timely” by Vogue, won the American Library Association Barbara Gittings Literature Award and the Texas Institute of Letters Award for the Best First Book of Poetry. They adapted Freedom House into a solo art exhibit, displayed at various museums.

One of the most consequential moments in American civil rights history has been almost entirely forgotten. It was 1978. Conservative politicians wanted to ban gays and lesbians from working in California public schools. The outcome of that statewide initiative would have huge repercussions for the rest of the country, and young gay activists knew it. The battle was on. And although it's been almost fifty years, their victory has surprising and urgent relevance for LGBTQ+ communities today. Journalist Christina Cauterucci tells the incredible story as host of season 9 of Slate's podcast, Slow Burn: Gays Against Briggs.    Complete transcript available here at relationscapes.org.    SHOW NOTES Slow Burn, season 9: "Gays Against Briggs."   ABOUT THE GUEST Christina Cauterucci is a Slate senior writer and a host of Outward, Slate's podcast on queer life.  

The top reason most news coverage about trans people is misleading and harmful is because journalists don't include the perspectives of actual trans people. Journalist Nico Lang was frustrated by how often reports talked about trans people without trans people. This is especially true for younger folks.  Nico wants people to hear directly from trans teenagers. So for their groundbreaking new book, they spent a year traveling the country documenting the lives of trans, nonbinary, and gender fluid teens and their families. The book is called American Teenager: How Trans Kids Are Surviving and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era. And it puts perspectives of gender diverse teens front and center, where Nico says they always belonged.   Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST Nico Lang is a nonbinary award-winning journalist with over a decade of experience covering the transgender community’s fight for equality. Their work has appeared in major publications, including Rolling Stone, Esquire, the New York Times, Vox, the Wall Street Journal, Salon, Harper’s Bazaar, Time, The Washington Post, and the L.A. Times. Lang is the creator of Queer News Daily and previously served as the deputy editor for Out magazine, the news editor for Them, the LGBTQ+ correspondent for VICE, and the editor and cofounder of the literary journal In Our Words. Their industry-leading contributions to queer media have resulted in a GLAAD Media Award and 10 awards from the National Association of LGBTQ Journalists (NLGJA). Lang is also the first-ever recipient of the Visibility Award from the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund (TLDEF), an honor created to recognize their impactful contributions to reporting on the lives of LGBTQ+ people.

Before becoming disabled, Jessica Slice was building a business, running miles every day, and chasing perfection. Parenthood didn’t fit into that life, especially because Jessica was sure she’d never measure up. But when her physical health collapsed at 28, everything shifted. Disability stripped away the life she knew, and uncovered something unexpected—she wouldn't have to be perfect to be a mom. But unfortunately, she would have to fight to become one in a world designed to exclude her. Her new book is called Unfit Parent: A Disabled Mother Challenges an Inaccessible World, and she joins us to talk about why we must work to make the future of parenting more accessible, and why everyone will benefit when we do.   Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST Jessica Slice is a disabled author, speaker, and essayist who earned her master's of social work degree at Columbia University. Her new book, Unfit Parent: A Disabled Mother Challenges an Inaccessible World (Beacon, 2025) has been shortlisted for the J. Anthony Lukas Prize. Her other books include Dateable: Swiping Right, Hooking Up, and Settling Down and This is How We Play, with more books on the way. She has been published in Modern Love, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Alice Wong’s bestselling Disability Visibility, Glamour, and Cosmopolitan. 

When journalist Amanda Hess got pregnant, the internet met the moment with a flood of baby ads, influencer moms, and algorithmically curated advice. But when her pregnancy became medically complicated, the warm glow of digital support gave way to something much darker. In her new book Second Life: Having a Child in the Digital Age, Hess explores how the internet can warp our most intimate life experiences, steering us toward strange and even troubling ideas about care, control, and personhood.   Complete transcript available here at relationscapes.org.    SHOW NOTES Victoria Lucas, "Reclaiming Nemo," Ouch! It's a Disability Thing, BBC (Aug 19, 2004) Amanda Hess, "Natural Woman," excerpt from Second Life in Marie Claire Amanda Hess, "My Son Has a Rare Syndrome. So I Turned to the Internet," excerpt from Second Life in The New York Times   ABOUT THE GUEST Amanda Hess is author of Second Life: Having a Child in the Internet Age. She’s a critic at large for the New York Times writing about the internet and pop culture, and contributes regularly to The New York Times Magazine. Hess has worked as a columnist for Slate Magazine, an editor at GOOD Magazine, and an arts and nightlife columnist at the Washington City Paper. Other publication sites include ESPN the Magazine, Wired, and Pacific Standard, where her feature on the online harassment of women won a national magazine award for public interest.

When marriage equality was finally achieved, Karl Dunn thought life couldn't be better. He had a husband, a dream job, and a beautiful life in LA. But then, as everything unraveled through a contentious divorce, Karl discovered just how unequally the system treats same-sex couples. This crisis sent Karl on an urgent journey of self-rediscovery—from heartbreak in LA to healing in Berlin and beyond. In his memoir How To Burn a Rainbow, Karl explores what liberation really means when he stopped chasing personal perfection.   SHOW NOTES Karl Dunn's Substack   ABOUT THE GUEST Karl Dunn is author of How to Burn a Rainbow: My Gay Marriage Didn't Make Me Whole, My Divorce Did. He formerly served as Global Creative Director on several world-famous brands like MINI Cooper, Levi’s, and ASICS. He spent over two decades as a multi-award winning advertising creative working in Australia, Asia, Africa, Europe, and America. His career culminated as the Director of Innovation for a powerhouse global advertising network. Karl is a keynote speaker on Reconnecting A Divided World. Living between LA and Berlin, he also works as a freelance advertising consultant to brands. Full transcript available here at relationscapes.org. 

Katelyn Burns, journalist and podcast host of Cancel Me, Daddy. Katelyn was the first openly transgender Capitol Hill reporter in U.S. history and she continues to be a leading voice among journalists on trans issues. It’s not the cushiest job there ever was, especially right now. I wondered how she was holding up under our excessively transphobic regime.   SHOW NOTES Cancel Me, Daddy podcast Katelyn Burns, GUEST COLUMN: The current ‘mindf*ck’ of being a trans journalist (The Handbasket) The Flytrap  Assigned Media, Evan Urquhart Erin In the Morning, Erin Reed Nico Lang's Queer News Daily on Instagram Eris Young, “Nonbinary Thinking” Abi Maxwell, “The Challenges of Parenting Trans Kids” Laurie Lee Hall, “Trans In the Latter Days” Kyle Lukoff, “A Haunted Trans Story”   ABOUT THE GUEST Katelyn Burns is a freelance journalist based in New England. She was the first openly transgender Capitol Hill reporter in U.S. history. She hosts the Cancel Me, Daddy podcast and co-owns the Flytrap.   Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.