Terryl Givens: The God Who Waits

We live in a world that prizes activity: being productive, staying in control, always doing something. So when life brings seasons of waiting—through illness, loss, or circumstances we didn’t choose—it can feel unsettling, even threatening to our sense of self. But what if those seasons are actually inviting us into a deeper understanding of God?Today, we’re joined by Terryl Givens to explore an extraordinary book called The Stature of Waiting by W.H. Vanstone. Vanstone noticed something hiding in plain sight in the gospel accounts of the last week of Jesus’s life. Up until a certain moment, Jesus is the one acting—teaching, healing, feeding, leading. And then, almost imperceptibly, the grammar of the story shifts. He is no longer the one doing, but the one to whom things are done. He is handed over. He waits. He receives. And Vanstone suggests this isn’t a tragic turn in the story—it’s its deepest revelation.Terryl and Fiona introduced many of us to the God who weeps in Moses 7. In Vanstone, we meet that same vulnerable God again—this time, waiting. And we ask what it means to follow that God in how we love, how we age, how we suffer, and how we let ourselves be carried.We hope that as you move through Holy Week this year, this conversation helps see the face of God in the most vulnerable moments of the Easter story — and in your own.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

This version has the correct audio--thanks to those who let us know the last one wasn't right! From time to time we like to share episodes from other shows in the Faith Matters network that we think you’ll really love, and today we’re highlighting one of our new favorites from Article 13, the podcast hosted by Zach Davis.If you haven’t discovered it yet, Article 13 is one of the most beautifully produced things Faith Matters does. The title comes from the thirteenth Article of Faith and that really captures the spirit of seeking that you’ll experience in these episodes. These are rich, deeply researched explorations that bring together cutting-edge scholarship and spiritual wisdom to ask big questions about how we live.In today’s episode, drawing on research from thinkers like Seth Kaplan and Pete Davis, we hear a compelling case that one of the central challenges of our time is a growing fear of commitment.Our culture tells us that the best life is the one where we keep our options open. But the irony is that the things that make life richest—friendships, tight-knit neighborhoods, shared projects, belonging—become possible when we choose to commit to one another. Real, rooted, showing-up-again-and-again community.Even though our tradition is built around covenant relationships, we’re living in the same cultural waters that pull toward busyness, mobility, and individualism.This episode is both a diagnosis and an invitation. It’s full of ideas and stories that might make you want to knock on a neighbor’s door, join something local, or start something in your own community.We hope it sends you back to your people—your neighbors, your ward, your community—with a little more fire.And with that, here’s Article 13.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

From time to time we like to share episodes from other shows in the Faith Matters network that we think you’ll really love, and today we’re highlighting one of our new favorites from Article 13, the podcast hosted by Zach Davis.If you haven’t discovered it yet, Article 13 is one of the most beautifully produced things Faith Matters does. The title comes from the thirteenth Article of Faith and that really captures the spirit of seeking that you’ll experience in these episodes. These are rich, deeply researched explorations that bring together cutting-edge scholarship and spiritual wisdom to ask big questions about how we live.In today’s episode, drawing on research from thinkers like Seth Kaplan and Pete Davis, we hear a compelling case that one of the central challenges of our time is a growing fear of commitment.Our culture tells us that the best life is the one where we keep our options open. But the irony is that the things that make life richest—friendships, tight-knit neighborhoods, shared projects, belonging—become possible when we choose to commit to one another. Real, rooted, showing-up-again-and-again community.Even though our tradition is built around covenant relationships, we’re living in the same cultural waters that pull toward busyness, mobility, and individualism.This episode is both a diagnosis and an invitation. It’s full of ideas and stories that might make you want to knock on a neighbor’s door, join something local, or start something in your own community.We hope it sends you back to your people—your neighbors, your ward, your community—with a little more fire.And with that, here’s Article 13.

One of the real challenges of studying the Hebrew Bible is figuring out how to make sense of stories of divine violence—where a God of love seems hard to find. These passages raise real questions about the nature of God and what it means for us as we try to live faithfully.Our guest today is Riley Risto, director of Latter-day Peace Studies, who joined the Church after a powerful mystical experience while praying about the Book of Mormon, an experience that centered his faith on Jesus and shaped his lifelong effort to take Christ’s teachings seriously in a world—and a Bible—full of violence and conflict.In this episode, Riley invites us to engage scripture through what’s often called a cruciform lens—the idea that, if Jesus gives us the clearest picture of who God is, then his life and teachings should shape how we understand every Bible story. Instead of letting the most troubling passages define our image of God, we begin with Christ and the cross and allow his life—and his radical call to love our enemies—to guide the way we wrestle with the rest.Along the way we explore what René Girard’s work on scapegoating might reveal about violence in scripture, what it might really mean to “take the Lord’s name in vain,” and what a Christ-centered reading could mean about justice.Underneath it all is the conviction that we’re not meant to be casual observers of scripture, but participants—trusting that honest wrestling can refine our faith and discipleship. For us, this cruciform lens has sparked new curiosity and breathed new life into our scripture study this year, and we’re excited to share it with you.If conversations like this are resonating with you, we’d love to invite you to explore more of the work we’re doing at Faith Matters. One podcast you might especially enjoy is Proclaim Peace, a joint project from Faith Matters and Mormon Women for Ethical Government.Hosted by Jennifer Thomas and Patrick Mason, Proclaim Peace explores what it might look like to read scripture through a lens of peace—and how those teachings can shape the way we live, engage conflict, and show up in the world.If this episode sparked something for you, we invite you to subscribe to Proclaim Peace on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. We think you’ll really appreciate the thoughtful conversations happening there.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

In today’s conversation, we explore creativity as a spiritual practice—not something reserved for artists, but a way of living.Our guests are Lisa Valentine Clark, a comedian, actor, and host of The Lisa Show, and James Rees—artist, educator, researcher, and passionate advocate for the arts.Both Lisa and James have spent their lives creating—in front of audiences on stages, in studios, in classrooms—and they’ve come to see that creativity does sacred work inside us. It gives form to what we’re wrestling with. It helps us clarify what we think and feel. It helps us metabolize the unexpected. It draws us into deeper presence.For Lisa, these insights became intensely practical. She shares the foundational rule of improv, “yes, and”: accept what’s given and build from it. This principle became a discipline that helped carry her through the hardest season of her life.Throughout the episode, we return again and again to the role of vulnerability—the courage to begin before you feel ready, to quiet the inner critic, and to let something take shape before you judge it. It’s this openness that makes growth possible.We hope this conversation expands the way you think about creativity and moves you to notice the ways you’re already being invited to practice it.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

Today we’re grateful to share a conversation with our friend Tucker Boyle—a longtime seminary and institute teacher and the founder of Harmony Road Retreats, a nonprofit creating safe, supportive spaces for people in faith crisis.As a young missionary, Tucker fell in love with teaching the gospel and knew he wanted to become a full-time seminary teacher. He stepped into that role with his whole heart, and years later pursued a PhD, hoping to become an even better, more thoughtful teacher. But during his doctoral research into early Church history, his certainty began to fracture. And before long, the ground beneath him seemed to give way. His work, his community, his family—his entire life—was built around the faith he was now struggling to hold.And for the first time, Tucker wondered if he belonged. He describes sitting in church—once his sanctuary—and feeling his body surge into fight or flight. But in time, he learned that what felt like collapse was the beginning of a deeper, more conscious faith.Today, Tucker shares how that unraveling became an invitation into transformation. And though the questions didn’t disappear, his relationship to them changed. The groundlessness opened into something more spacious and alive, expanding his capacity for love, humility, and connection.Whether you’re in the middle of your own wrestle, loving someone through theirs, or simply trying to build a faith that can hold complexity, we think Tucker offers language and light for the journey.If you or someone you love is navigating a faith journey you can check out Tucker’s organization at harmonyroadretreats.com. Tucker created these retreats to offer the kind of support and community he needed—spaces where you can feel less alone, where you can connect with others on the road, and explore practices that cultivate inner harmony and peace. He has retreats coming up in both March and April, and you can find all the details on the website.As always, thank you so much for listening—we’re so glad you’re here. You can check out more at faithmatters.org.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

We’re so excited to share a conversation that our friend and Executive Director, Zach Davis, had with Teresa Morgan, Professor at Yale Divinity School and a leading scholar of early Christian history.Teresa invites us to reconsider one of the most central words in Christianity: faith. She explains that for the first generations of Christians, “faith” didn’t mean signing on to a list of beliefs. It meant something more like trust—faithfulness, trustworthiness, the act of entrusting your life to God. Faith was less about what you thought and more about the kind of relationship you were living: a daily, embodied trust in a faithful God.But over time, as outside pressures mounted, Christian leaders drew clearer boundaries around belief. Creeds became markers of belonging, and faith—once rooted primarily in trust and lived allegiance—was increasingly defined by agreement with specific doctrines. That shift has shaped the Christian imagination ever since.In this conversation, Zach and Teresa explore how that evolution happened, what may have been lost, and what it might look like to recover a richer, more relational vision of faith today. We also want to mention that this interview is featured in the upcoming Issue 7 of Wayfare, and that this is a special edition centering women’s voices on the theme of trust—trust in God, in ourselves, and in our communities. It’s a beautiful and thoughtful collection that we are really proud of. You can read this interview, and see the beautiful artwork that accompanies it, at WayfareMagazine.org.If you’d like to receive your own copy of Wayfare in the mail, you can become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31. Your support is what makes conversations like this possible, and we’re so grateful.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

Today we’re so excited to share our conversation with Bruce Tift, author, psychotherapist and longtime practitioner of Vajrayana Buddhism. This summer, our friends at Uplift Kids introduced us to Bruce’s fascinating book Already Free, and we’ve been thinking about it ever since.In this conversation, Bruce dives into some of the ideas in the book. He explores how to make peace with being human. He looks at two seemingly opposing paths—both Western and Eastern wisdom—and shows how each offers a vital piece of the puzzle. Where psychotherapy may teach us to bring our early wounds and disowned emotions into awareness, Buddhist practices help us recognize the deeper freedom that’s available when we stop identifying with the fixed self.We loved that Bruce talked us through the ways we organize around our core fears, why so many of our childhood survival strategies still run the show in adulthood, and why real freedom often begins with simply allowing ourselves to feel uncomfortable without trying to fix or escape.Bruce’s insights feel so useful for navigating seasons of growth—emotional, spiritual, and relational.This conversation really helped us see that personal growth isn’t about achieving some ideal version of ourselves—it’s about meeting our actual experience with curiosity, compassion, and presence. We found Bruce’s wisdom to be gentle, honest, and deeply liberating, and we’re so grateful he joined us.You can find Already Free on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever you buy your books, and you can find even more from Faith Matters on this topic in this week's newsletter on our website, faithmatters.org.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

As we explore the Old Testament this year, we’ve found ourselves returning to a past conversation with our friend Terryl Givens. It felt grounding and expansive and we're really excited to share it with you again.The Old Testament can be incredibly rich—full of beauty, poetry, and profound spiritual insights. But it can also sometimes feel bewildering or even faith-shaking. We get glimpses of a loving, nurturing God—and turn the page to encounter a God that seems angry, even violent. It's a text that raises big questions and invites us into deep wrestles. And maybe that’s part of its sacredness—that it pushes us into such honest, meaningful conversation.In this episode, Terryl helps us navigate those tensions. Together, we ask: What is the Bible, really, and where did it come from? What do different translations of this text have to offer, and how can we engage with this scripture in a posture of reverence and discernment that allows for mystery, and honors the sacredness of the whole landscape.We loved Terryl’s insights in this conversation, and we’re so grateful to revisit them now. Thanks so much for listening—we hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.For more on this topic, and for weekly resources to accompany your Come Follow Me study, be sure to check out the Faith Matters newsletter at faithmatters.org.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail! 

Hey everyone, this is Aubrey Chaves from Faith Matters. Today I’m excited to share my conversation with Katie Ludlow Rich and Heather Sundahl about 50 Years of Exponent II, their new book tracing the history of a space where Latter-day Saint women have engaged the most urgent questions of their time—while also honoring the dailiness of life.The roots of this effort go back to 1872, when women began publishing the Woman’s Exponent to speak for themselves and stay connected across distance. A century later, Exponent II carried that work forward—not to create consensus, but to make room for complexity, difference, and the kind of deep listening that makes real community possible.And that’s what this conversation is about—what it takes to stay in relationship, even when ground we used to share—whether in belief, perspective, or experience—starts to shift. We’re probably all navigating this now in some spaces, in families, wards, or friendships. And so today, Katie and Heather explore the difference between discomfort and danger, how we can sit with the tension of disagreement without walking away, and what it means to listen not to persuade, but to witness—to be present with someone else’s experience, even when it’s different from our own.Katie is a writer and independent scholar of women’s history. Heather is a marriage and family therapist in Orem, Utah. This was a deeply personal conversation, and we’re so grateful to Katie and Heather for showing up with such honesty and care. Their own lived experiences have led them down different paths, and it was a gift to sit with them in dialogue—watching the ways they do this together and make space for others to do the same. That kind of wisdom is hard won, and we’re honored to share it with you now.You can find their book, 50 Years of Exponent II, on Amazon, Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold.Become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31 to get Issue 7 in the mail!