#191 - Next Level Burger: Expansion, Plant-Based Backlash, and the Future of Sustainable Fast Food

Journalist and author Michael Grunwald joins Eat For The Planet for a provocative conversation about land use, climate truth-telling, and why regenerative beef might not be the climate solution it claims to be. We dig into the uncomfortable tradeoffs most people ignore in food system debates—from the myths of “local and organic” to the surprising upsides of high-yield industrial farming. Grunwald, known for his sharp reporting and systems-level analysis, explains why sparing land—not just using it better—is the key to solving food and climate. We also talk about alternative proteins, bad science in food policy, and why fear of food tech might be holding back progress. If you’ve ever wondered whether your “sustainable” burger is helping or hurting, this episode will challenge what you think you know. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is plant-based food dying—or detoxing? In this episode, Kerry Song, founder and CEO of Abbot’s, returns to Eat For The Planet to unpack what she sees as the third wave of plant-based eating. We explore why consumers are walking away from ultra-processed mimicry, how trust is rebuilt through clean labels and transparency, and why the real opportunity lies in the space between imitation and compromise. Kerry shares what she’s learned from building a wellness-driven brand in a hype-driven category—and why satisfaction, simplicity, and real food are the future. This is a conversation about food, culture, trust—and the rise of the middle path. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if food didn’t have to come from animals—or even plants? In this episode, Nil Zacharias sits down with Thomas Jonas, CEO and co-founder of Nature’s Fynd, to explore the origins of Fy, a microbial protein discovered in a Yellowstone hot spring that’s grown through fermentation without soil, sunlight, or traditional agriculture. They discuss the company’s unconventional path, why they stayed quiet while others chased the hype, and how Fy is powering a new category of food—from dairy-free cream cheese to meatless breakfast patties. It’s a conversation about building what comes after agriculture, the future of protein as a platform, and how to stay focused when the rest of the industry loses its way. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ethan Brown returns to Eat For The Planet eight years after his first appearance for a raw and timely conversation about what it means to lead Beyond Meat through public scrutiny, shifting consumer narratives, and a changing food landscape. We talk about the limits of frictionless adoption, the company’s strategic reset, and why storytelling is now central to Beyond’s mission. Ethan shares what he’s learned from adversity, how he draws strength from history, and why he still believes plant-based meat can transform the plate—and the planet. Subscribe to The Main Dish, where I make sense of what we eat, why it matters, and how the systems behind our food are changing—or not. Learn more about the Eat For The Planet Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Katie Cantrell, co-founder of Greener by Default, joins the Eat For The Planet Podcast to explore how subtle changes in choice architecture—like making plant-based meals the default—can drive massive impact across institutional food systems. From working with Sodexo to scaling plant-forward menus in hospitals, Katie unpacks the behavioral science behind her nonprofit’s work, reflects on what she’s learned from years of advocacy, and makes the case for why quiet change can be the most powerful kind. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Dan Altschuler Malek returns to Eat For The Planet for a wide-ranging, honest conversation about the state of food innovation. We dig into the lessons learned from the early rise—and recalibration—of alternative proteins, and why building a resilient food system requires patience, scrappiness, and a willingness to rethink success. Dan reflects on why food systems rarely "disrupt" the way tech industries do, how investors and entrepreneurs must evolve their strategies, and why he remains optimistic about the future of food. From manufacturing challenges to consumer culture shifts to the hidden power of blended products, this is a conversation about playing the long game—and why that's the only game worth playing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Journalist and author Larissa Zimberoff joins Eat For The Planet to break down what went wrong in food tech—and what still gives her hope. From the collapse of vertical farms to the backlash against plant-based meat, we explore why hype wasn’t enough, how ultra-processed narratives took over, and where innovation might still thrive. A candid, clear-eyed look at the future of food beyond the buzzwords. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With declining sales, cultural backlash, and growing skepticism around alt-proteins, many are asking: Is the plant-based movement already past its peak? In this episode, Sarah Lake, CEO of Tilt Collective, makes the case that this moment is less a dead end and more a turning point. She shares the real forces shaping what we eat—from corporate power and public policy to culture and consumer psychology. They unpack why meat reduction remains such a political and emotional minefield, and why changing food environments—not just minds—may be the key to shifting diets at scale. Sarah shares Tilt’s approach to funding high-impact solutions globally and explains why success will look different in New York, Brazil, or Thailand. If you’re tired of shallow optimism or hand-wringing despair, this conversation offers a third way: honest, grounded hope. Sarah Lake's TED Talk: The Hidden Forces Behind Your Food Choices Music: Endless Inspiration (Vibe Street Mix) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Eat for the Planet, Matt de Gruyter, CEO and co-founder of Next Level Burger, discusses the brand’s significant progress since 2018, including the acquisition and turnaround of Veggie Grill, its ambitious expansion goals, and the evolving plant-based food landscape. Matt reflects on combating misinformation, balancing operational discipline with a strong work culture, and creating a sustainable, compassionate food system while emphasizing the critical role of leadership and persistence in driving long-term change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Eat for the Planet podcast, Nil Zacharias speaks with Alicia Kennedy, author of No Meat Required, about challenging meat’s dominance in the food system and exploring the cultural, culinary, and systemic shifts needed to create meaningful change. They discuss how plant-based eating, rooted in countercultural movements, can serve as a force for transformation while navigating the challenges of identity, desirability, and accessibility. Alicia critiques the focus on hyper-realistic meat substitutes and advocates for a return to celebrating vegetables, grains, and whole foods as a path to reimagining food systems. She emphasizes the importance of community-driven food and the need for systemic solutions that address labor, access, and sustainability. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices