101. The Missing Skill Every Leader Needs: Why Most Leadership Development Fails with Julie Birtles
In this episode of Building Doors, host Lauren Karan sits down with Julie Birtles, a leadership advisor who has spent more than two decades working with executives, governments, universities, and major organisations to help leaders navigate complexity, disruption, and transformation.
Julie challenges one of leadership's biggest assumptions: that more knowledge creates better leadership. Despite global firms spending around $60 billion a year on leadership development, often with returns as low as 10%, organisations are still struggling to transform. Julie argues the issue isn't leadership capability. It's the way leaders have been taught to think.
The conversation explores why traditional leadership has reached its limits, why organisations keep investing in development without seeing a fundamental shift, and how "catalytic thinking" offers a practical framework for leading in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on her work with Georgiou (formerly GBG) and a three-year program across 59 leaders in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia, Julie shares what happens when leaders learn to think differently, and why so many catalytic thinkers don't even know they're unusual.
From the Queensland Olympics and the risk of a "Hunger Games" scramble for resources, to the tall poppy syndrome holding Australia back, to the role of consistency in creating psychosocial safety, this episode is a challenge to stop throwing money at leadership development that doesn't work, and start building leaders who can shape the future rather than react to it.
Tune in for a practical, thought-provoking conversation about changing how we lead, and a preview of the follow-up case study to come.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
The Leadership Development Blind Spot:
- Why $60 billion a year in global leadership development is delivering returns as low as 10%
- Why we've focused on knowledge and behaviours but neglected how leaders actually think
- Why sending leaders on a three-day course is "just not enough"
Catalytic Thinking Explained:
- What catalytic thinking is, and why it's about creating possibilities, not just solving problems
- How catalytic thinkers map backwards from a future date (like 2032) to know what must be true today
- Why process has become a proxy for leadership, slowing people down and creating congestion
The Georgiou Case Study:
- How a three-year program with 59 leaders across five countries transformed a business
- Why building leadership architecture (individual, team, then organisation) creates momentum
- How stretch initiatives taught leaders to think differently by working on the real business
- Why one leader giving away their entire budget to a colleague unlocked the whole system
Culture, Risk, and the Tall Poppy:
- Why catalytic thinkers often don't know they're different, and get told they're "too big"
- How tall poppy syndrome and risk aversion are holding back Australian productivity and innovation
- Why we need to bring entrepreneurial capacity back into our organisations and "have a crack"
Safety, Consistency, and the Undiscussibles:
- Why consistency is one of the most underrated and free leadership capabilities
- How adversarial contracting creates unsafe environments for innovation
The Olympics and True Collaboration:
- Why the Olympics' drop-dead deadline demands a different way of thinking
- How competition for the same resources could create a "Hunger Games" scenario, and how collaboration prevents it
- Why Olympic cost overruns average 159%, and what Queensland could build for the next generation instead
Wellbeing and Avoiding Burnout:
- Why catalytic thinkers need to work differently, not harder
- How high-EQ leaders must moderate their pace so ambition doesn't just create pressure
- Why "transformation" language without shifting mindsets just adds congestion
Key Quotes from Julie Birtles:
- “Rather than build bigger libraries, we need to build bigger capacity.”
- “Catalytic leaders ask things like, what are we capable of?”
- “Process has become a proxy for leadership.”
- “One of the most underrated and free leadership capabilities is consistency.”
- “You can’t problem-solve your way out of that. But you can create.”
- “Most people are extraordinary. They just don’t get tested in the right way."
About Our Guest:
Julie Birtles has spent more than two decades working with executives, governments, universities, and major organisations to help leaders navigate complexity, disruption, and transformation. Her work centres on catalytic thinking, a practical framework for moving beyond problem-solving towards creating new possibilities. She also founded a leadership program, run in partnership with Bain, that brings together clinical and non-clinical leaders to help transform Australian health care.
About Your Host:
Lauren Karan, founder of Karan & Co. and host of Building Doors, is dedicated to helping professionals unlock their potential. Through insightful interviews and real-life stories, Lauren empowers listeners to create opportunities and thrive in their careers.
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Let’s Connect:
- Want to be a guest or share feedback? Email us at [email protected].
Thank you for listening! It’s time to stop waiting and start building.
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