88 - Why founders overestimate PLG, and what VCs should check before investing

Is AI making your marketing sharper—or just noisier?AI has supercharged how fast we can create. Blogs, campaigns, designs—what once took weeks now takes hours. But speed comes with a catch. When everything is generated faster and in higher volume, clarity often gets lost. Signal turns into noise. The real message gets buried.In Episode 89 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf and Kalungi founder Stijn Hendrikse break down a key idea from Stijn’s new book Syntropy: why AI accelerates entropy in marketing, and how modern teams can counteract it by becoming creators of syntropy—clarity, meaning, and signal that cuts through.You’ll hear what this shift means for marketers at every level, and why the skills that matter most today aren’t technical execution, but judgment, storytelling, and the ability to translate raw data into insight.Critical topics in this episodeEntropy vs Syntropy: Why AI often multiplies noise instead of clarity, and what marketers can do about it.The new marketing roles: From the Syntropic Sculptor (designer) to the Syntropic Scribe (writer), and why their value now lies beyond rule-following.The STOP method: A practical way to standardize, templatize, optimize, and productize marketing work.The future CMO: Why the “Syntropy Navigator” becomes the most important role in an AI-enabled marketing team.Career resilience: How marketers can stay relevant by doubling down on the human skills AI can’t replace.By the end, you’ll have a sharper lens on AI’s role in marketing: a powerful accelerator, but one that needs human judgment to stay on course.Resources shared in this episode:3 traits of an effective marketing leaderThe 4 SaaS Marketing Leadership Maturity Stages ExplainedLooking for a Startup Marketing Agency? Here’s What Every B2B SaaS Founder Needs to Know T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.Listen to more episodesHead back to the B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks home page for more.

Is founder-led growth helping or holding you back?Early wins often come straight from the founder’s voice. Nobody knows the problem better, or tells the story with more passion. That credibility is what gets the first customers to sign, keeps them close, and often carries a young company through its earliest deals. But founder-led growth has limits. Time runs out. Markets expand. What worked at $1M ARR may stall out at $15M.In Episode 89 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf and Kalungi founder Stijn Hendrikse unpack both sides of founder-led growth: why it’s such a powerful accelerator in the beginning, and why it can quietly become a ceiling if companies don’t evolve.You’ll hear how to recognize the signs that your business is over-reliant on the founder, and what founders, teams, and investors can do to keep growth compounding even as the company matures.Critical topics in this episodeWhy founder-led growth works: The credibility, subject matter expertise, and customer intimacy that early adopters can’t resist.Where it breaks: The hidden ceiling that appears when everything still flows through the founder.Transition challenges: Letting go of sales, messaging, and culture without losing the magic.Investor view: How search funds and acquirers spot businesses that need to move past the founder model.The Kalungi story: What happened when Stijn stepped away, and how Brian navigated the shift to a broader team-led approach.Amplifying the founder’s voice: Ways to scale thought leadership without burning out the founder.By the end, you’ll see founder-led growth for what it is: a launchpad, not a permanent operating model. And you’ll walk away with sharper instincts for when to double down on the founder’s voice—and when it’s time to build beyond it. B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:BSMS 77 - Leveling up your go to marketThe 4 SaaS Marketing Leadership Maturity Stages ExplainedLooking for a Startup Marketing Agency? Here’s What Every B2B SaaS Founder Needs to Know T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.

Is your product really ready to sell itself?Plenty of founders spot Slack, Loom, or Canva and claim, “We’ll just go product-led.” The idea feels neat. No big sales team. Faster cycles. Viral growth. Yet Product-led Growth only works when the product already clears tough hurdles for ease, onboarding, and unmistakable value. Miss those, and momentum never starts.In Episode 88 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf sits down with long-time CMO Stijn Hendrikse to explore why early teams often overrate PLG—and how investors can identify the warning signs before wiring funds.You’ll hear hands-on ways to test whether a product can truly pull in its own demand, along with the questions VCs should ask to be sure the numbers make sense.Critical topics in this episodeThe appeal and the reality of PLG:  Why founders romanticize the model and where hidden costs creep in.A “10×” rule for product-market fit:  Milestones that must scale from tens to thousands before PLG is viable.Metrics investors must see:  Value moments and pay–stay–refer ratios (share of users who pay, stick around, and invite others) needed when ARPU is small.Keeping costs in check:  How careless spending on ads, onboarding, or extras can turn a lean approach into a cash fire.Mixing self-serve with sales:  When a small sales touch helps—start small, then grow each account.Using new capital wisely:  Deepening the winning niche instead of chasing every shiny segment.By the end, you’ll know how to vet a PLG claim—whether you’re shipping code or writing checks. Get ready to rethink the checklist for PLG readiness and to ask sharper questions before betting on a self-service vision. B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:How to Assess If Your B2B SaaS Company Is Ready for Scalable GrowthBSMS 23 - Product led growth vs. sales led growthLooking for a Startup Marketing Agency? Here’s What Every B2B SaaS Founder Needs to Know T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company. 

AI is rewriting the rules for marketing roles—and the expectations that come with them. In episode 88 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, Brian Graf and Stijn Hendrikse dig into how job descriptions, hiring, and performance standards are shifting as AI becomes a core part of every marketer’s toolkit.What you'll learn:Why activity-based job descriptions are outdated, and why outcomes and ownership matter more than everThe new skills that set marketers apart—like prompt engineering, mastering AI tools, and delivering a high signal-to-noise ratio in your workHow the definition of “quality” has changed, and why B+ work is no longer enough when everyone has access to the same AI-powered shortcutsThe idea that every hire is now a “team of one” backed by powerful AI, and what that means for productivity and accountabilityHow to update your job descriptions and interviews to focus on creativity, critical thinking, and the ability to drive real business results—not just outputWhy testing, feedback, and iteration are now table stakes, and why marketers need to use their extra time for deeper work, not just more workYou’ll hear practical examples for content marketing roles, tips for raising the bar on quality, and a candid look at how reputation and professional equity are evolving in the age of AI. The conversation is honest, sometimes a bit unfinished, and full of real-world perspective from two leaders who’ve seen the shift up close. B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:The State of B2B SaaS SEO in the Age of AI [2025]Unlocking the power of AI: Transform your content creation processHow Google’s New AI Mode Is Reshaping B2B SaaS Marketing T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKS Since 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.

Video isn’t a flashy extra in B2B SaaS marketing anymore, it’s a must-have tool that is driving serious growth and leaving old-school strategies in the dust. 95% of B2B buyers lean on video before buying, and video ads can slash CPLs by ~30%! In Episode 86 of B2B Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf and guest CMO Julian Revorio deliver the playbook on why video is now non-negotiable in B2B SaaS today. They show you how to leverage both short and long-form videos to engage more buyers and drive conversions.What You’ll Learn:Why video content has become non-negotiable for B2B SaaS marketing success.How to mix short, snackable clips with longer videos for maximum impact at every stage of the funnel.The kind of ROI you can expect from video (like cutting cost-per-lead).Cool new tools & hacks that make pumping out video content a breeze.Now is the perfect time to jump in, with new AI tools making video creation easier (and cheaper) than ever. Video grabs attention and builds trust like nothing else—especially now that buyers are practically glued to short-form videos on Facebook, LinkedIn, and beyond. Don’t miss out! If leveling up your marketing with video sounds good, you can’t afford to skip this episode—it might just give you that unfair advantage.B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:Create amazing video testimonials for your SaaS company on a budget5 tips to make your SaaS company video popBest video ever on building momentum T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company. 

Are you pricing your AI software correctly?Whether you’re trying to attract early users to a new AI SaaS offering or rethinking your model to scale an established product, you have to choose the right pricing model. If you pick the right one for your stage and audience, you’ll avoid churn risks and gain a new strategic tool to drive growth. In Episode 85 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf and guest CMO Antoine Vial break down the major pricing models emerging in the AI-driven SaaS space – from traditional seat-based subscriptions to usage-based and outcome/value-based pricing.You’ll learn how to align your pricing with your ideal customer profile and overall go-to-market strategy, ensuring your pricing not only generates revenue but also reinforces the value of your AI-powered solution.Here are the episode's critical subjects:Why pricing is a critical differentiator in the AI SaaS market: How the explosion of AI startups has made pricing strategy a key way to signal value and stand out in a crowded field.Pros and cons of key pricing models: An in-depth look at seat/subscription pricing vs. usage-based pricing vs. value-based (outcome-based) pricing – including their benefits (e.g. predictability vs. flexibility) and potential downsides (like cost unpredictability or complexity).Hybrid pricing strategies in action: How combining models (for example, a base subscription plus usage-based add-ons or credits) can balance stable revenue with customer flexibility, and why this hybrid approach is popular for many AI-powered tools.When to use each model based on growth stage: Guidance on matching your pricing strategy to your company’s maturity – from keeping it simple at the MVP stage to reduce friction, to moving toward value-based pricing once you have product-market fit and proven outcomes.Aligning pricing with your ideal customer profile: The importance of understanding your target audience’s expectations and industry norms (e.g. are they used to pay-per-use or prefer flat rates?) and tailoring your pricing model to meet those expectations and maximize adoption.​​Using pricing to build credibility and trust: How a well-designed pricing scheme can serve as a credibility signal – for instance, value-based pricing demonstrates confidence in your product’s ROI – and why transparency (like free tiers or clear pricing pages) can lower barriers for new users.Common pitfalls to avoid in pricing an AI product: Insights on mistakes SaaS companies make, such as overcomplicating pricing too early or misaligning price with value, and how to iterate and test your pricing safely as you learn from customer behavior.Get ready to explore which pricing strategies work best at different stages of a company’s growth and product maturity -- information that's applicable to early-stage startups and scale-ups alike. Certain approaches (like hybrid usage models or value-based pricing) can build credibility and trust with customers, while others can create churn risk if misaligned with customer expectations.B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:BSMS 84 - Positioning for AI SaaS companiesBSMS 67 - The impact of AI on marketingUnlocking the power of AI: Transform your content creation processThe State of B2B SaaS SEO in the Age of AI [2025]T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company. 

With over 14,000 new AI startups in the past few years and nearly every software tool now adding “AI” to its messaging, how can your AI-powered SaaS product stand out? In Episode 84 of BSMS Marketing Snacks, host Brian Graf and special guest CMO Antoine Vial (fractional CMO for 20+ SaaS companies) explore why technical features alone aren’t enough to win customers during the AI gold rush. You need to craft messaging around the real outcomes and value you deliver. They use real examples (like how one startup niched down with “personalization at scale” for a specific audience before broadening out) to illustrate effective go-to-market tactics. You’ll hear about emerging trends: from new pricing models in an AI-first era to booming verticals like customer support, sales automation, analytics, cybersecurity, and more.This episode covers:Differentiating in a Saturated AI Market: Why the explosion of AI startups makes clear positioning more important than ever, and how to avoid getting lost in a sea of “AI-powered” claims.Outcome-Focused Positioning: How to move beyond bragging about algorithms and instead highlight the concrete business outcomes and “jobs-to-be-done” your product delivers for customers.The Power of Niche & Early Adopters: A playbook for niching down – targeting a specific vertical or problem first – to gain traction and product-market fit (and how companies like Clay used this strategy to build momentum).Evolving Your Go-to-Market Strategy: Tips on identifying your ideal early adopters, refining your messaging for that subsegment, then expanding thoughtfully once you’ve established a foothold.Emerging Pricing Models for AI SaaS: An overview of pricing trends – from traditional subscriptions and tiered plans to usage-based “credit” models and value-based pricing – and how these choices support (or hinder) your positioning.Industry Trends & Examples: Insights into key AI-driven verticals (from AI voice agents in customer service to AI coding assistants) and what’s helping the winners in those niches break through the noise.Cutting Through Hype to Drive Adoption: Why simply having AI isn’t a strategy, and practical advice for founders on communicating your unique value so customers understand why your solution matters to them.For B2B SaaS founders and marketing leaders driving companies above $2M ARR, this conversation is a masterclass in standing out and scaling up in the AI era. As your company grows, the stakes of positioning only get higher – especially when you’re competing in a hot space with well-funded entrants and legacy players all touting AI. Episode 84 arms you with expert perspectives on sharpening your value proposition and go-to-market focus. You can refine your messaging, target the right niche audiences, and align your pricing with value – all of which are crucial to accelerating growth beyond the $2M mark. Make sure your AI-powered product isn’t just another face in the crowd, but a clearly differentiated solution poised for long-term success.B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:BSMS 67 - The impact of AI on marketingUnlocking the power of AI: Transform your content creation processThe State of B2B SaaS SEO in the Age of AI [2025]T2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company. 

When economic and market turbulence strikes without warning, SaaS founders and marketers naturally start to wonder... should we cut marketing budget, pivot our message, or hold the line? In Episode 83 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, co-hosts Brian Graf and Stijn Hendrikse explore how B2B SaaS companies can not only survive but thrive when the economy takes a dip. You’ll hear why maintaining focus on customer value is more important than ever, and how to avoid knee-jerk reactions that can hurt long-term growth. Here’s what you’ll learn:Why value beats panic pricing: How to double down on real customer value and practice value-based pricing instead of slashing prices or entering a race to the bottom, ensuring your offering remains essential even as budgets tighten.Adapting your ICP and personas: How to re-evaluate your Ideal Customer Profile in a downturn – identifying which segments of your market still have budget or greater need for your solution – and adjusting your buyer personas (e.g. addressing newly empowered CFOs) to align with shifting priorities.Retention and expansion first: Why it’s crucial to prioritize customer retention and expansion over pure new customer acquisition during a recession. Learn ways to strengthen customer success, keep your existing clients happy, and grow revenue from your install base so you protect your ARR.Smart budget optimization: Guidance on trimming the fat in your marketing spend without killing your growth engine. Discover how to audit your channels and CAC, cut the underperforming tactics, and double down on the efficient strategies so your go-to-market stays lean and effective.Flexible pricing & “survivor” offers: Creative strategies to help customers stay on board. This includes shifting to usage-based or monthly pricing options, offering more flexible payment terms, or even introducing a limited-time “survivor package” – a pared-down, high-ROI product tier designed to prevent churn and attract budget-conscious buyers from less flexible competitors.Pivoting your content strategy: How to tweak your marketing messaging and content in tough times. Our hosts share why thought leadership alone isn’t enough in a downturn – and how creating practical “survival” guides, checklists, and playbooks for your audience can build trust and relevance. (Spoiler alert... help your champions justify your product internally by focusing on immediate execution and ROI, not just big ideas.)Rather than resorting to fear-driven cuts, you’ll learn how to strategically adjust your approach – protecting the customer base you’ve worked hard to build and seizing opportunities that competitors might miss. Brian and Stijn’s advice will help you keep your growth engine running strong (even on a leaner budget), align your product and messaging with what customers need right now, and ultimately come out of the downturn with a healthier, more focused business. B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:How to update your B2B Marketing Strategy in a recession8 B2B marketing tips to offer a modern and adaptive marketing strategy4 Red Flags in SaaS MarketingHiring great marketers in todays outsourced labor marketT2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.

Feeling overwhelmed by a never ending to-do list, or struggling to balance high impact work with personal growth? The development matrix can help.In Episode 82 of B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks, co-hosts Brian Graf and Stijn Hendrikse dive into the Development Matrix – a simple but powerful framework for overloaded marketing leaders – and unpack how to tackle the never-ending to-do list that every B2B SaaS marketer and founder knows too well. Here’s what you’ll learn:The Development Matrix Framework: How to categorize your tasks into four quadrants based on how effective you are at them and how much they energize you, so you can clearly see what to keep doing and what to delegate.Prioritizing High-Impact Work: Why focusing on the tasks that generate the best outcomes (and letting go of the rest) drives better results and prevents you from getting bogged down in busywork.Delegation Done Right: Practical tips for deciding who should take on a task – whether it’s a team member who’ll find it exciting or an AI tool that can handle it – and how to delegate without simply “dumping” work on others.Avoiding Burnout: Insights on recognizing when a task you used to love has become a grind, and how handing it off at the right time keeps you fresh and your team motivated (no more burning the candle at both ends).Empowering Your Team: How using this framework not only frees up your time for strategic thinking, but also creates growth opportunities for your team through coaching and new responsibilities (a win-win for company culture).The “Who Not How” Mindset: Always asking “Who is best equipped to do this?” for each new project – including leveraging AI for support – so you’re continually optimizing your workload for maximum impact.Time always feels scarce in SaaS marketing! The Development Matrix is a great tool to prioritize work, focus on high-impact tasks, and still make room for personal growth. This approach helps avoid burnout while keeping you focused on the work you enjoy and excel at, rather than drowning in tasks that drain you. You’ll spend more time on what truly moves the needle (and what you love doing) and less on the minutiae that can be handled by others. It’s a valuable playbook for scaling your leadership, preventing burnout, and building a stronger team as your SaaS business continues to grow.B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:BSMS 56 - A marketing team you can affordBSMS 38 - How to employ situational awareness as a go-to-market leaderBSMS 77 - Leveling up your go to marketT2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.

Ever wish you could boost revenue without scrambling for new customers? You can! But only if you maximize the hidden growth opportunity in your existing customer base. In Episode 81 of B2B Marketing Snacks, co-hosts Brian Graf and Stijn Hendrikse welcome back B2B SaaS CMO Cecilia Pérez-Muskus to continue the discussion from Episode 80. Our very own B2B SaaS experts dig into how the best SaaS companies drive over 50% of their revenue from current customers (while the average is only ~28%). They have practical advice for you on using customer success, product usage data, and account-based marketing to capture a ton of untapped revenue.Here’s what you’ll learn:The biggest expansion mistakes to avoid: Why chasing new logos while ignoring current customers is a recipe for missed revenue (and even churn), and how great SaaS companies flip this script.“Land and Expand” done right: How starting with a small beachhead (a single team or use-case) can lead to multi-department wins and multi-location rollouts – without the long enterprise sales cycle.Aligning your team for growth: Tips on getting Sales, Marketing, and Customer Success on the same page to drive upsells. (Hint: your CSMs can become a second sales force when it comes to expansion, especially when they partner closely with sales reps.)Finding upsell gold in your data: How to spot upsell and cross-sell opportunities by analyzing product usage patterns and listening to customer feedback. You’ll discover ways to use surveys, support tickets, and in-app metrics to identify who’s ready for an upgrade (and who might need extra love).Account-based marketing for existing customers: Tactics for running one-to-one ABM campaigns targeting your current accounts – from personalized email outreach to tailored content that addresses each customer’s next potential “job to be done.”Key metrics and growth levers for expansion: Which expansion metrics matter most (think Net Revenue Retention and percent of revenue from expansions) and how to move the needle. Plus, why regularly revisiting your pricing and packaging can significantly boost customer lifetime value.Scaling isn’t just about landing new deals – it’s about maximizing value from your existing base to drive efficiency and profitability. You’ll come away with practical ideas to improve retention, increase each account’s revenue contribution, and get your team aligned on expansion as a growth strategy.B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks is one of the most respected voices in the SaaS industry. It is hosted by two leading marketing and revenue growth experts for software:Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 CMO Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiBrian Graf: CEO of KalungiB2B SaaS companies move through predictable stages of marketing focus, cost and size (as described in the popular T2D3 book). With people cost being a majority of the cost involved, every hire needs to be well worth the investment!The best founders, CFOs and COOs in B2B SaaS rely on a balance of marketing leadership, strategy and execution to produce the customer and revenue growth they require. Staying flexible and nimble is a key marketing asset in a hard-charging B2B world.Resources shared in this episode:BSMS 80 - Account expansion (part 1)FREE B2B SaaS Go-to-Market Checklist for Market ExpansionBSMS 63 - Expand your market with Ansoff’s MatrixBSMS 23 - Product led growth vs. sales led growthT2D3 CMO MasterclassSubmit and vote on our podcast topicsABOUT B2B SAAS MARKETING SNACKSSince 2020, The B2B SaaS Marketing Snacks Podcast has offered software company founders, investors and leadership a fresh source of insights into building a complete and efficient engine for growth.Meet our Marketing Snacks Podcast Hosts: Stijn Hendrikse: Author of T2D3 Masterclass & Book, Founder of KalungiAs a serial entrepreneur and marketing leader, Stijn has contributed to the success of 20+ startups as a C-level executive, including Chief Revenue Officer of Acumatica, CEO of MightyCall, a SaaS contact center solution, and leading the initial global Go-to-Market for Atera, a B2B SaaS Unicorn. Before focusing on startups, Stijn led global SMB Marketing and B2B Product Marketing for Microsoft’s Office platform.Brian Graf: CEO of KalungiAs CEO of Kalungi, Brian provides high-level strategy, tactical execution, and business leadership expertise to drive long-term growth for B2B SaaS. Brian has successfully led clients in all aspects of marketing growth, from positioning and messaging to event support, product announcements, and channel-spend optimizations, generating qualified leads and brand awareness for clients while prioritizing ROI. Before Kalungi, Brian worked in television advertising, specializing in business intelligence and campaign optimization, and earned his MBA at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business with a focus in finance and marketing.Visit Kalungi.com to learn more about growing your B2B SaaS company.