Your Plan for Financial and Studio Security

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Billy Collura, a powerhouse agent with over 30 years at CESD New York. Billy shares his unique perspective on the dramatic evolution of the voice acting industry, from the early days of union-only radio spots to the current market dominated by non-union and digital opportunities. This conversation provides essential insight into the biggest voice acting trends that have shaped the industry and reveals the simple, authentic quality that makes a voice actor successful today. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO Boss here.  00:06 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO Boss. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:12 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:34 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit vobosscom slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:43 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Slash VIP-membership to sign up today. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:08 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome someone who truly defines what it means to be a powerhouse in the voiceover industry. With more than 30 years at CESD New York, Billy Collura has been at the forefront of commercials and beyond, representing talent with a direct and grounded approach that has earned him the trust of clients and voice actors alike. I think it's fair to say that he doesn't just follow the changes in the business. He really helps to shape them. So, Billy, I am so excited to have you here on the podcast.  01:44 - Billy (Host) Thank you for asking me. Yeah, this is so nice, yeah.  01:47 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it, and of course we're like on opposite coasts here, so you're on my home coast and so I do miss New York quite a bit and we did have a little.  01:58 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How often do you get out here, pardon me, do you get out here often?  02:00 - Billy (Host) Do you ever get out. You know what?  02:01 - Anne (Host) Not as often as I should. I really have now started to say I'm only coming out during the warm season because I'm done with the snow. Yeah, I hear you. But I would imagine like do you travel like elsewhere in the wintertime in New York, Because I know I stay here.  02:22 - Billy (Host) I travel a lot in general um during the course of the year, but um you know, I right now I'm upstate in well. I'm up in the Hudson Valley and in the city of Hudson, which is two hours North of Manhattan, so I go back and forth Um in the winter time. No, I'm usually, I don't know, I'm usually in the Northeast sometimes.  02:43 - Anne (Host) Okay, Are you a skier? Are you a skier? No, absolutely not, Absolutely not. That was, that was what a lot. What kept a lot of people on the East coast? Um, in my area anyways, they're like oh no, I have to be able to ski in the winter.  02:56 - Billy (Host) No, I don't like the cold.  02:57 - Anne (Host) Well, I have a. I have a mountaineer in California, Uh huh.  03:00 - Billy (Host) Uh-huh.  03:02 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh. Well, anyways, it's so nice to see you again. It's been a while. I saw you at VO Atlanta and I'm just really thrilled that I have the opportunity to talk to you. I know how busy you are, but I'm just so excited that the bosses are going to get this opportunity to really benefit from your wisdom. And so, benefiting from the wisdom speaking of that, you've been at CESD for over three decades. Um, that's, that's amazing. So how would you say that your role as an agent has evolved during that time?  03:37 - Billy (Host) Well, you know like it started when I started. Um, it'll be. Um, it'll be 32 years in May. Oh my gosh, when I started, voiceover was a smaller industry and I dabbled in a little bit of everything, okay.  03:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I did commercials.  03:57 - Billy (Host) There really wasn't. There was no internet back then. So we did radio and TV commercials and industrials and I'm not even sure cable was around when.  04:08 - Anne (Host) I started. I hear you. You know we didn't have computers, any of that.  04:13 - Billy (Host) So we did a little bit of everything. And then, you know, and promos, promos were a thing, and narration and trailers, and so, you know, we did a little bit of all of that. And then, as the industry kept getting bigger and bigger, we started specializing. And all of a sudden, in animation, I dabbled in gaming, but I also, you know, but pretty much my focus was commercials, because that's where the money is, you know, and that was the day where it was just, you know, it was just TV and radio, and you made the actors made a lot of money. Yeah, it was only union, we only worked on union jobs. And now fast forward to now, where 60% to 70% of my desk is non-union. We started doing non-union in 2019. Okay, the union opportunities have pretty much dried up, and I say that, but it's ebb and flow.  05:22 I mean right now this year it was a slow summer for some reason. It was like the old days, it was really slow and I mean that union and non-union. And then I go away on vacation and it just like exploded while I was away and I've been and since then I've been playing catch up and it's been so busy with union, lots of union stuff with non union. Yeah, so it's been great there.  05:49 Yeah. So I mean that's changed and I guess for me what's changed for me is because now I specialize much more on commercials. I do have a few non-union accounts, but I have my large union study accounts, steady accounts. Um, so most of my work, uh is you know, is in the commercial world. I also happen to handle the audio books, but I always say I'm not an audio book agent. I'm the agent at CESD that handles the audio books.  06:18 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So it's a little difference.  06:20 - Billy (Host) Um so, but the audio book, what I do love about it. You know an an an agent who left um cause she was having. She got married and had babies and she said, take the audio books. They're the nicest people in the world. And I got to say they really are, and so I've kept it.  06:36 I love it. The people are so nice. Um, I really, really enjoy it. So that you know, so I I've been doing that. I also do ADR and loop group stuff, again very specialized, and there really aren't a lot of industrials. Now I know some of the other. I'm one of five, six agents in the department and then there's another two agents that work with agencies that cater to medical industrials.  07:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So they're doing I don't do personally.  07:05 - Billy (Host) I don't do a lot of industrials. I think a lot of the industrials have gone to the pay-to-play sites, so but the union stuff, the medical ones, they are still at the big agencies. I just personally don't happen to have those. I would say maybe the commercial aspect of right Healthcare like pharmaceuticals and that sort of thing is huge and more and more of those blue chip companies are going non-union and those rates are you know.  07:34 - Anne (Host) Sure. What do you attribute that? Why is that happening? What do?  07:39 - Billy (Host) you attribute it to is when it started, when digital work started happening, and these great companies, the Droga5s and there was so many, that's just the first one they were doing great work with the digital work. You know, they were just with stuff before even streaming, when they were just doing they were making commercials for digital work and they were doing fine work. They were doing really good work and these companies, these blue chip companies, were saying, hey, you did that for this much money, why don't you just take all of our network stuff? And that's how I remember, like 10, 12 years ago, a large fast food chain started going, you know, went totally non-union. And then the large fast food chain started going, went totally non-union.  08:25 Then there would be some that because they had a celebrity voice on certain spots, and then they would get a third party and more and more I feel like these agencies, these digital agencies, just kept getting better and better at it and the actors were getting better and better at it. And it's not like the cable stations that you see up here that you know these infomercial things that you know that you can tell it's non-union. You know I've fallen and I can't get up kind of stuff. These. They're doing great work.  08:56 - Anne (Host) I can't tell, are they doing great work because they have great actors or are they doing great work because the entire production value of it?  09:05 - Billy (Host) Yes.  09:06 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, you know, people are getting better at it.  09:09 - Billy (Host) The voiceover people certainly, and it's not even I mean the voiceover so many people. Covid just changed the game and everybody you know voiceover was the one business in town that didn't shut down during.  09:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) COVID.  09:24 - Anne (Host) And every I always say every jaboni with a mic, you know, just set up a studio at home and said I'm going to do voiceover, and not only you know they were well-established Broadway and TV and film you know everybody was doing it and that's and that's so interesting because I would say the majority of people that you know cause I was I was super busy coaching during COVID and I just had so many people that just wanted to like make the demos and get into the industry. But I had a lot more of the talent that were more beginner right to intermediate. But I would imagine that with COVID, with celebrities right them wanting to get into voiceover because what else was there? Because they weren't able to go into a studio, and so I would say that a good portion of that, I would say a good portion of people that were getting those jobs, were probably the celebrities right.  10:27 - Billy (Host) Absolutely coaching. You know they just kept getting better and better at it. And you know, and, and we're willing to work for low wages, I mean that's the other thing. And you know we always say somebody takes a job for $100. You know it's just a race to the bottom. Yeah, you know, if you're gonna add, because you know we don't work on the non union stuff, we don't work on the non-union stuff, we don't work on certain things. I won't work on stuff just because it's not worth my time.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Sure.  10:49 - Billy (Host) And I don't mean to be like, oh, but $250 is a lot to some people. Oh yeah, for all the work that I have to go into it, for me to do it and have my assistant do it and doing the editing to maybe get it, it's just not worth it. But I do. I mean that's usually. My threshold is 250.  11:10 - Anne (Host) And I understand that because I always tell people, because I do a lot of non-broadcast narration, coaching and demos, and I'm always telling people they're like, well, I want an agent. I'm like, well, an agent doesn't get excited about non-broadcast stuff because it's a one and done thing. You don't make your money on that, and so typically you want to have a tip top commercial demo because that's where they're going to be making their money with the residuals and and that sort of a thing. So would you do? You think it has to do with the sheer volume of people that got into voiceover as well. If you've got enough, you know, if you throw spaghetti against the wall right there, some of them will stick. And so then I started to drive down. I'm going to say it started to drive down maybe the prices, uh, or people willing to do the work for less, because it just got to be competitive.  11:56 - Billy (Host) It did.  11:57 There's so many people doing it now, so many people, and especially in the non-union world, there's so many opportunities out there and you know, with the pay to plays and I've kind of changed my tune a little on the pay to plays and I kind of see they're there for a reason. They're a great, you know, tool for learning, for getting the experience, for the auditioning. And I and I learned recently when I was at a conference in Holland and met the CEO from Voices 123. And I learned that they love to put people together and to put the actor and the company together. Take it off the platform and do your thing.  12:41 They don't want to micromanage, like there are other pay-to-plays that micromanage everything.  12:45 But I really found that you know, oh, that's really nice, and then people can make money that way. They're not interested, they're just interested in making the match. So, but, that being said, there are so many people that are doing this now and, yeah, driving down the prices because you know, they may be this may not be their full-time gig, it just may be a side hustle for them. So, yeah, sure, an extra $200, an extra $100, an extra $350. That can accumulate. But unfortunately then they're like well, you did it last time for $100. Why can't you? So it's hard, it's hard.  13:21 - Anne (Host) It is, but would you say that the amount of jobs is diminishing or no, it's just as volume you know, I don't see volume as normal.  13:33 - Billy (Host) I'm busy, you know, but I don't know, like, like I said, this summer was slow with the opportunities, with the, with the auditions. I find that my casting directors, my union casting, just my casting directors in general, um, they, you know, I have some that are busier than others, some I will hear from, you know, once every other month, and then some I will hear from three or four times a week. You know, um, so it's and it's all you know. There's no logic to it.  14:03 - Anne (Host) And then on the um isn't that the truth. Yeah, and then um after all these years, wouldn't you think like you could? You could predict, you know.  14:14 - Billy (Host) I would say to actors you know, I'm not booking, it's just one phone call, it's one job, don't forget. They're only picking one person, but yeah, yeah, picking one person. You, yeah, you know, only picking one person you know and you don't know.  14:25 - Anne (Host) That's a way to put it in perspective. Actually, if you think about it, but in 400,.  14:30 - Billy (Host) You know how many people are auditioning.  14:31 That's why with select VO. You know that only allows you X amount of people to submit. So if they, if the agency says, if they invite you and they say you can only submit three people per role, they won't let you submit a fourth person. So you really have to be smart and we're not the type of agency that will send you know to ten people and then, sophie's Choice, the three that I want. You know, I don't believe in that. I don't. I feel it's a waste of time of the actor. It's certainly a waste of time for my assistant and for me to have to listen to, then you have to listen to them Exactly.  15:10 - Anne (Host) What's the point, you know, and so that translates to me to a good relationship with everybody that's on your roster, absolutely, that that knowledge of their capabilities and you can communicate, uh, back and forth to make sure that the two of you are are, you know, keeping up with one another, and you would be the one that say, okay, I'm going to handpick this audition and send this to this many people, because you're the one that has to do the work right To send it the top three, to the. So the client.  15:43 - Billy (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. It's my reputation and there are some casting directors that you know they will.  15:48 I will submit a list and they will pick who they want to hear you know, back up, if I lose, or if we lose somebody, who else would you like? Or, you know, sometimes they'll say these are the three I want to hear. Send me one of your choice that maybe I, somebody, I don't know, um, and then there are certain casting directors that will micromanage and they have to. They, you know they will only see these people and they're, you know, not flexible. But it just kind of makes me a better agent.  16:14 - Anne (Host) That's why we're.  16:15 - Billy (Host) Cesd is an exclusive agency. We don't oversign in the union or non-union world. We're still building up our non-union roster. You know we're still doing that, but that's where we have the most amount of opportunities. You know, in the non-union world, Sure, Plain and simple.  16:34 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. So what would you say after all these years? What's kept you loving your job?  16:42 - Billy (Host) Because it's different every day. You know, that's the— that's the thing. I never know what's ahead of me. So I, you know, I just love. Every day there's some, there's a new challenge, there's something new. Also, recently I have a new assistant who I adore and I love teaching him. He's a little sponge and he wants to learn.  17:09 And so that kind of inspires me to want to teach him, and you know so that that is. I guess that's the difference, and also being able to, because the business has changed. Remotely, you know, I can start earlier, I'm not in the office, I I can work later, you know. It just kind of like the whole. It's such I don't want to say a relaxed, but I feel I feel more relaxed Now. It could be because I've been doing this for a hundred years, but I just feel relaxed, I enjoy what I do. I don't feel the pressure. I don't feel like there's no such thing as a voiceover emergency If somebody screws up or, you know, if I've given you know there's no such thing.  17:51 - Anne (Host) Bravo to that. I always say there's never a VO emergency.  17:54 - Billy (Host) No, there's never a first you know, if something went wrong, don't freak out. How?  17:59 - Anne (Host) do we fix it? How do we?  18:00 - Billy (Host) fix it, that's all you know.  18:02 - Anne (Host) Now, that's from your perspective. What about your client, your casting director? Your client's perspective? Are there VO emergencies? Yeah, there could be, that's on them, not on me. Yeah, okay, I love that.  18:13 - Billy (Host) I don't, you know, I wanna help fix the problem, you know, sure so. And I mean, yeah, you know, it's always something. Fortunately I haven't had any of those emergencies in a while. But you know, the other night I was it was nine o'clock my time and an LA. It was an LA agency booking a client. She happened to be on the West coast, so it worked out okay, but it was nine 30. And I was like you know, I'm old, I can't stay up. And then I thought, and I got a text from the casting director she goes we want to book so-and-so. I left all the information on the email. So I was like, oh well, I have to finish Gilded Age, this episode, and then, as soon as I'm done, I will get on my computer.  18:56 - Anne (Host) I love it, that's great?  18:59 - Billy (Host) I guess yeah. So that's what keeps me going. The relationship with my clients, I don't. It's different because back in the day, actors used to come into the office to audition. West Coast was different because you guys were MP3ing long before, because you all wouldn't get in a car and drive a half hour to the studio.  19:20 - Anne (Host) But in New York, well, because of the traffic.  19:24 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah, and that's why you couldn't get to three auditions back in the day, but it was our job in New York to get you, you know, to get you from the Upper West Side down to Wall.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Street over to Midtown yeah, I know so many voice actors who still um go into studios to audition in New York. I mean, I almost don't hear about it anymore, except for well, I'm sorry, excuse me to go into the go on for booking.  19:48 - Billy (Host) No for bookings, they will.  19:49 - Anne (Host) They encourage that now but I have heard people in the last couple of years. I mean it's not every day, but sometimes they are going in. I don't know if it's to audition or if it's to actually do the job it's usually you know there's one or two the studios.  20:03 - Billy (Host) You know a couple of the studios that do auditioning, because that's what changed? Oh, okay, that makes sense, like all the advertising agencies that were in-house casting directors and those casting directors ended up going to the studios in New York and they have in-house casting directors, so they will encourage the Sonic Unions. The. Headrooms the Sound Lounges they will encourage hey, if the client is local to New York, boom, have them come in. Oh, that makes sense. And it kind of opened up because not everybody got SourceConnect especially our older clients.  20:40 It wasn't cost effective for them for that one audition every other month. It wasn't so the foreign language people, they weren't getting it because there weren't enough opportunities. But especially I I want to say the older clients they really weren't getting so this kind of opened up. If you lived in New York you could still send an MP3 and you're able to go to Sound Lounge for the booking that was always that's always a nice caveat.  21:06 - Anne (Host) So I'm sure people ask you this all the time. Commercial voiceover has changed, evolved over the years. Advertisers have changed how they buy and consumers have changed, I think, how they listen. What would you say is what sort of things have changed in terms of trends for commercial VO? What are you looking for now that maybe is different than what was relevant maybe five, even five or 10 years ago, Because I know probably you're going to say like 30 years ago it was more of that announcer sort of style, it was promo. But you know, maybe five, 10 years ago, what has changed?  21:43 - Billy (Host) You know, it was the, you know, when I first started. It was the time, when, you know, Demi Moore started with Keds and there was that raspy, damaged sound that has kind of you know, demi Moore started with kids and she there was that raspy damage sound that has, kind of you know, was such a thing for so long and our and I know our women back then, you know, were the most successful.  22:04 - Anne (Host) I coveted that which is not a part of my genetic makeup at all. I'm like I can't, I can't get a raspy.  22:11 - Billy (Host) No, if you don't, you know you can't put oh, I woke up with a, you know, with a sore throat today. I sound great I should audition. No, you shouldn't. Exactly. So that was. You know, that was always the thing and yeah, it was the rough and tough announcers and you know all those, all those guys, and then that kind of went away and it was the John Corbett kind of sound and he was you.  22:31 he stuck around for a long time as a prototype and now it's Paul Rudd and Rashida Jones and then. So those trends kind of changed. But then about 10 years ago, everything you know really were, it was people of color. You know they wanted voices for actors and that really opened up a wide, you know a wider net. There was no general market anymore because they used to say, you know, they were very specific, we want a Caucasian voice. But now you only see that if you're doing a demo for the on-camera and the on-camera actor happens to be a certain color. But they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. Now, everybody, especially in the union world, they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. You know everybody, especially in the union world, they all want to check boxes. You know, yeah, yeah, they, yeah, so they, you know it's all ethnicities. You know we want non-binary people and I'm like what does a non-binary person sound?  23:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) like I don't, it took me you know.  23:29 - Billy (Host) Then I realized oh, they don't really, they're just checking off boxes, but for the, you know, for the African-American community, they were in vogue. They were, you know, I would get breakdowns, all ethnicities, and the prototypes would be Viola Davis, Tiffany Haddish and Angela.  23:49 Bassett, Do the math you know, so that was a thing. And Angela Bassett do the math. You know, so that was a thing. And I think you know, I still think that that is happening. But I'm finding a trend like that is kind of changing, where general market is truly general market. Now they want, you know, it's everybody, it's everything.  24:09 - Anne (Host) That's great. Yes, I love to hear that.  24:12 - Billy (Host) That's the way it should have been, but unfortunately it was so the other way for so long and then it shifted and now it's kind of evening out.  24:21 - Anne (Host) Sure.  24:21 - Billy (Host) Sure, I don't know.  24:23 - Anne (Host) Well, I mean, that's what I was thinking would happen at some point. Right, it would even out and it's kind of nice to hear that that's happening.  24:31 I mean, I wouldn't want it to go another extreme you know, at all, you know, and especially because the world's a little chaotic right now and I know that it's affecting companies and their advertising, and so that to me says gosh, I hope that there's still as much opportunity for everybody as there ever was. And so that's just one of those things where I think if there was a slow part of the season, maybe it's people, you know. I think there's companies trying to gauge like what's happening and what's going to be what's going to work for them in terms of advertising.  25:08 And it's not so much the voice, but the whole, the whole thing, yeah, the whole, all of it On camera, all of it, all of it. How are they going to advertise it to be effective?  25:18 - Billy (Host) And I think you know, and I think that and this is just me I feel like voice wise, I feel that the union world is more tries to check the boxes, much more than the non-union world.  25:32 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I truly than the non-union world.  25:33 - Billy (Host) I truly believe the non-union world they're gonna pick the best voice for the job, no matter what ethnicity you are.  25:41 I find, and I just because of the actors that I speak with, not only because I speak with my non-union actors in general so much more, just simply because there's so much opportunity there. But I notice, with my union actors I just don't A I don't really have that many opportunities for them. But you know it is. I speak to certain ones more, a lot more than the others. But I don't find that, I find it much broader in the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the, the non-union community and how. You know how different it is. I feel that it is much more I don't know how to say it. It's much more of a community, I feel.  26:27 I feel that they, they really are supportive of each other, they help each other. It's not as competitive or as petty competitive as it can sometimes be in the union world, it's just, and I think it's fabulous that they really everybody's out to help each other much more in that community.  26:52 - Anne (Host) Well, that's refreshing to hear. I like that from you, Absolutely. So then for you, for talent on your roster. What sort of qualities are you looking for in any talent that might appear on your roster? You know what's funny.  27:06 - Billy (Host) When I first started, you know, when COVID happened first thing, when I and I did a lot of these classes, first thing I was like, obviously the first thing was do you have SourceConnect? You know if?  27:17 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you have SourceConnect, because so few?  27:18 - Billy (Host) people did.  27:19 - Anne (Host) You went right to the top of my list.  27:22 - Billy (Host) Yeah, if you had SourceConnect, and then it's, you know, and then it's just about reading the copy, and that's the same basic thing is, how do you read copy? Some of my most successful people, my white actors over 40, I have a couple of them and they just read copy. So well, I don't know what it is, they just they're just, they're just great they were. And so, yeah, there's. You can't teach it, it's, you know, it's just natural. This one particular guy, yeah, does he have that Paul Rudd feel to him? Just that guy next door, just that real comfortable, relaxed, nothing pushed, that's how he is in life and that's how it comes across Right, right. Oh, there was something else.  28:06 Oh, I did this one class and there was this woman, you know, like late 20s white woman, and there was just something. I was on a panel, I was one of three people and, oh my God, she was. There was just something about her read that made me crazy and like the next day I was like I have, you know, I want to set you up. I love you, you know, I love you the best. And now, here we are. I love you, know, I love you the best, and now here we are, fast forward to probably a little more than a year. She is one of my most successful actresses on my roster. And what is it about her? I don't know. She's just fabulous. You know, she just, she just reads. It's just, it's honest.  28:50 - Anne (Host) So I'm always looking for that honest. I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like, with that honest, I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like how you know we've heard for for so long right, bring you to the party, bring you to the party, it's that. I think that's so important. And and we throw it around like, oh yeah, okay, I can bring me, but and yet so many people still try to perform, uh and and if they really can just stop in their own head and and just bring themselves to the party because, like you and I like talk like there's something about like I really like Billy, and it's, it's, it's like an intangible thing and it's your personality, right, it's, it's how we connect.  29:23 - Billy (Host) And I think that's what's so right away. The first time we met, we would just like exactly.  29:30 - Anne (Host) I think that's the same thing for voice actors. If you can, you know, if, if you've got a great personality and you're like one of those people that you can connect with right away, I mean that's what I think we're looking for, that authenticity it's you're not trying to, you know, push anything and and this is who you are and I love to hear that, because I keep telling people gosh, you are enough. I mean it really is. Please don't try to be anything other than yourself, because I really like you.  29:55 - Billy (Host) Yes, and so many voice actors. They forget that.  30:00 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you know this is acting and I said you know you got to get out of your head into your gut.  30:05 - Billy (Host) Whether you're selling peas for 99 cents, it doesn't matter. You have to be, you know, honest and authentic with it, so important. Now I have to ask the question authentic with it, so important?  30:14 - Anne (Host) Now I have to ask the question because you know probably everybody does. And what do you think about the threat of AI in the industry, and especially now that there's? It's not even just voice, it's on camera too.  30:27 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we keep our eye on it. We read every contract, we read every contract, we read every breakdown. You know SAG is doing their best. Bless their hearts.  30:42 You know, nava is you know, above and beyond, what they're doing with the rules and the legislation and what they're doing. You know it's coming, it's not going away and it's going to get better and better. So we just try to keep our eyes and ears on everything and try to follow the rules and say, nope, large deal right now. And there was a huge component with um. They wanted an AI replica and fortunately, the person um doing it was like no, I've heard replicas of my voice and they're not, and they never sound as good as the real thing.  31:27 - Anne (Host) Um, so that's a really interesting point because I know for a fact that that's true, because I, you know back in the day. Well, back a few years ago, I started really delving deep into that and researching companies and how they made voices, and I've heard a lot of voices and there are some people who are amazing actors but yet their voice doesn't translate. Well, either it's the AI technology that has not given, it's just it's not doing the right thing for them and, yeah, it doesn't translate.  31:56 - Billy (Host) Yeah, and he said no, I, I will not. It's my, it's my voice, it's my reputation, and I will be available whenever they need me. They were like well, what in case he's what? You know? What if he's away on vacation?  32:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, he said there are no VO emergencies. No, there are no VO emergencies, Right, there's no VO emergencies.  32:15 - Billy (Host) So yeah, so are we concerned about it? Yeah, am I concerned, absolutely, but you know I can't lose sleep over it.  32:23 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's coming.  32:24 - Billy (Host) You know, it's coming, and so we just have to manage it and make it work to our advantage.  32:30 - Anne (Host) Yes, I agree, I agree, I and make it work to our advantage. Yes, I agree, I agree, I love that. So I'm very excited because you're going to be doing a class for us, a VO Boss workshop, in November. As a matter of fact, it's going to be November 12th. Can you tell us a little bit about what we're going to be doing in that class?  32:48 - Billy (Host) Well, what I usually do is I like to just kind of give my spiel about what I've been doing and I guess the do's and don'ts of the proper way to get in touch with an agent, what to expect, what not to expect from you know. Once you're submitting to an agent, I just try to, I try to just say the things you know, kind of give the tips that actors need to know. You know what's proper, what's not, what's gonna get you. You know what's gonna get you seen, what's gonna get you heard. You know what makes it easy for me, the agent.  33:24 And I've come to also realize that it works differently from agency to agency. So I can only speak to what works for me, um, at CESD, um, but we'll, you know, I'll talk about that and I'll just talk about my feelings on on what it takes, what tools you're going to need and I mean like literal tools, what kind of demos you're going to need, that sort of stuff. Do a little Q and a and then read some copy, you know and anybody that does come to the class.  33:54 um, it's gotta be commercial copy, because that's that's what I do, you know um. I, I'm, I'm not going to be able to judge you on your animation copy or you know that kind of stuff. That's not really what I do. So we'll, you know, we'll do that and we'll tear it apart and hopefully get to two pieces within the class.  34:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that. We'll see. Yay, well, I'm very excited for that and, bosses, I'll be putting a link so that you can sign up for it, because I'm quite sure it's going to go quickly. Now my last question is because you said you're in upstate New York and I, you know, I have my own, like my own, nostalgic memories of upstate New York, and so, for me, I'd be riding a horse, you know, in in the countryside. So if you weren't an agent, philly, what would you be doing right now? Oh God, would you have a different career? Would you be retired and riding horses, or?  34:49 - Billy (Host) Yeah, well, you know, I've only had three different jobs in my life, okay, well, you know, other than high school jobs. I was an actor slash waiter, and then I became an agent. You know Like I've been it's you know. So I moved to New York to be an actor and that didn't happen, but I always kind of I was. I had a friend who was a commercial casting director and so I used to go in and help him out at the casting calls.  35:20 That was back in the days of Polaroids and signing up and I really was fascinated by it. And he would you know. And he kept saying there's an opening at this agency. Do you want to go? And I would go and audition, you know, to be an assistant. Sure, and then boom, boom, boom.  35:35 And then, it just so happens, he said CED, because we weren't CESD at that point it was looking to expand the voiceover department and was I interested, and my partner at the time said go and audition. I mean go and audition, apply for the job, cause one of these days you will make more money than me. And so you know. And um and so um, and now, every year, every year. I'm still in touch with him and I call him and I say thank you, greggy, for allowing me to have this job.  36:08 - Anne (Host) Here's my annual income report allowing me to have this job.  36:11 - Billy (Host) Here's my annual income report yes, so anyway, yeah. So I've thought about this. What do I do? I'm too old to be a waiter.  36:23 - Anne (Host) I'm not going to go back, though I think I would be really good at it.  36:25 - Billy (Host) I have these- I agree, actually, you've got the social I think I could do. Yeah, so do I go. But when I retire, whenever that is, I want to social. I think I could do. Yeah, you know, so do I go. But you know, when I retire, you know, whenever that is, I'm on a travel. I just love to travel, that's, that's my thing. So you know. You know, I feel like when this is behind me, that I will, you know, I'll just travel. I'm not going to be on a horse up here, but I always had.  36:50 You know, sometimes I've had, you know, I don't know if I even want another. You know job and I'm at that point now where you know, I'm old and I don't want another career. It's not like I'm. You know, I'm going to be an artist, or you know, I once thought I thought well, maybe I'll just go do community theater somewhere.  37:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I have a friend.  37:08 - Billy (Host) I have a friend, interestingly enough, a little older than I am, lives in Chicago and he started taking an acting class just for the hell of it.  37:16 - Anne (Host) For the hell of it.  37:17 - Billy (Host) And he said, the others they love it because they have somebody to play the old man in all those scenes. And I thought, oh my God, that's great, I could do that. Yeah, I love that. I thought yeah, why not community theater you? Know, if that was it. Now there's no community theater in New York City, so if that's where I retire, you know. But if I was to retire up here, you know that would interest me, and you know because I am a lover of theater, so I do.  37:46 - Anne (Host) Yeah, Well, I feel like you kept yourself in the acting world, you know by being an agent I mean in that you know, it's still like a. It's still you're very much immersed in it, and so I feel like, if that was your one love, you came to New York, by the way. Where did you come from?  38:02 - Billy (Host) I grew up in Waltham Massachusetts, oh okay. Okay yeah, just a little outside of. Boston.  38:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, very familiar with it. I went.  38:09 - Billy (Host) Yeah, I grew up in Waltham and then I went to UMass, Amherst and then to New York.  38:14 - Anne (Host) That was my. Oh, fantastic, yeah, there you go. Well, my gosh, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you today. I mean, I could go on. I feel like we could go on, but at some point, I do have to quit at some point.  38:32 But yeah, thank you so so much for sharing your wisdom. It's been really a joy talking with you. I'm so excited for November. Guys, bosses, remember November 12th. Get yourself to vobosscom and sign up to work with this gentleman. He's amazing, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses like Billy and myself, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. Bye, bye.  39:05 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The sensible and lovely Danielle Famble joins BOSS Anne Ganguzza to discuss a critical, often-overlooked aspect of running a voiceover business: disaster preparedness and maintaining operations during times of crisis. Using Danielle's personal experience of a sudden apartment flood, the hosts outline the necessary steps for every voice actor to ensure both physical and financial resilience.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, to discuss a critical issue in the voiceover industry: brand alignment and navigating controversy. Sparked by the American Eagle/Sydney Sweeney campaign, the hosts explore how a voice actor's ethics and personal brand are intrinsically linked to the clients they represent. They emphasize that in the age of social media, protecting your digital reputation is non-negotiable for long-term career success. 00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey in voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit anneganguzza.com to find out more.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ganguzza.  00:47 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my awesome superpower co-host Lollapetas.  00:56 - Lau (Guest) Hello, Annie, it's so good to be back. I love being in this Zoom room with you. Or it's not Zoom, but it's Riverside, but I love being in this space room with you. Or it's not Zoom, but it's Riverside, but I love being in this space with you, I know I look forward to it.  01:10 - Anne (Host) We get to see each other and it's been so long it's fabulous when we get back together because we have so much to catch up on. I know, I know oh my gosh.  01:19 - Lau (Guest) By the way, I love your outfit today. You look great.  01:23 - Anne (Host) Why thank you my, my jean shirt or my denim shirt? No, what's really cool about this is this is kind of well, I should say it's it's. It's deceiving, maybe because it looks like it's denim but it's actually like French Terry, and so it's super, super comfortable. But you know, speaking of jeans, I was going to say what color are your jeans.  01:50 Well, you know, I have good jeans and advertising campaigns for our businesses. I mean gosh, it's all over the news. I mean the American Eagle campaign with Sydney Sweeney. I mean, you know, she's got good jeans, and so it's a really interesting debate. I think it's something that we could absolutely relate to our own voiceover businesses in terms of associating with now, first of all, like associating with a brand that may or may not be controversial or may or may not be on the side of you know where your feelings align. I think that would be a really, really interesting topic.  02:30 - Lau (Guest) Lau I love that topic because we hear that word floating in the industry now for quite a while branding. Branding is connected to marketing, is connected to selling right and how you represent yourself and who you're connected to. That helps you represent yourself as well. And making some of those concerted decisions on who you want to be attached to and connected to, that really help you design your ethos of your business.  02:58 - Anne (Host) Well, they can help you. They can help you be successful in the industry, or maybe not. They can help you be controversial in the industry, or maybe not. They can help you be controversial in the industry. It's such an interesting. Now you know one thing about that campaign for me, when I first saw it, I didn't think anything of it, because I am a woman of a certain age and I remember the Jean campaign with Brooke Shields and Calvin Klein, and I just remember it, with Brooke Shields and Calvin Klein, and I just remember it, you know. And so, as a girl in, I think it was in elementary or high school. I can't remember when that came out, but it was the 80s, right? All I know is that I wanted a pair of Calvin Klein jeans because I wanted to look like Brooke Shields. Now today, didn't we all did not we Right?  03:41 No, I thought nothing of it, right, I thought nothing really horrible of it. But then it did become controversial because obviously she was, you know, she was young when she did that ad and it was a little bit sexually, you know, promiscuous, some people would say. And so, you know, today that type of advertising wouldn't fly and I think people are comparing Sydney Sweeney with that, because of she's got good genes, you've got an attractive female and a pair of jeans, and you know, of course, american Eagle says you know, it was always all about the genes, it's not always not about the, not about the misconception that jeans J-E-A-N-S is similar to G-E-N-E-S, so there's a lot to unpack there.  04:25 I don't know how did you react to it when it first came out? What were your thoughts?  04:29 - Lau (Guest) Well, you know what's so funny about the Brooke Shields thing that you bring up? That's the first thing I thought of is that everyone who's outraged about it is not old enough to remember the Brooke Shields and that's what they were really copying. I think that was a copycat from 45 years ago Going back to the old let's sell.  04:45 Yeah, but if you remember, annie, it was there was another controversy hooked on to Brooke Shields at that time, based on that commercial, because that was right around the time that she had shot Blue Lagoon, blue Lagoon, yeah, and she was only like 11, 11 or 12.  05:05 - Anne (Host) I think it was 13.  05:05 - Lau (Guest) Well, by that time she was about 13. But she was still very young and the mother was managing her and so there was a huge blowup and controversy about this young girl doing these so-called sexually explicit commercials about my sexuality and my body, about my sexuality and my body. And I remember thinking, and when I saw it again I thought wow, how did she get those jeans on without showing us anything, right in front of us, Like I was amazed and, as a young girl, I yeah, it was a Cirque du Soleil act.  05:35 It was amazing. Yeah, you know, as a young girl, media is so influential right.  05:41 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So, influential.  05:41 - Anne (Host) The thing is that, as voice actors, we really have a part in playing into the media, right, because our voices are representing brands, and for me at the time, I didn't consider anything wrong with it. All I know is that I wanted to look like Brooke Shields in those jeans and therefore I wanted the jeans. And I'll tell you what it was an expressly popular campaign that made Calvin Klein a ton of money, a ton of money.  06:09 - Lau (Guest) But if you look at it now as an adult and you listen from a voiceover perspective, her voice was very, very young very kidlike and very straightforward. She was trying to be, if anything, a little bit smart or intellectual versus overly sexy and centralized, but yet the perception, the visual right Was that was that.  06:34 - Anne (Host) That's exactly it. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of things there, and if you were the voice of a campaign that was controversial, right would. If it was something you believed in or didn't believe in, is that something that, as a voice actor, would you accept? And I think, or an actor, I mean any kind of role right? Do you accept those roles if they align with your belief system or your morals or your ethics or whatever that is, and how can it propel your business forward or not?  07:07 I mean, there's just so much that we have choices in, and as well as influence in, as voice actors, and we think sometimes we're hiding behind this microphone, but no, we're still a very intricate part of a media campaign. And so, really, as a voice actor, how do you decide? Really, is you know, oh, this could really propel my campaign if I decide that I want to align with this brand and be the voice of it, or sometimes it's not even about being the voice of it. It's maybe working with that brand in any capacity. You know, how is that going to affect your business? Because people have opinions, people always have opinions, and gosh aren't they all over the place.  07:56 - Lau (Guest) Now that social media is prevalent, they're the Wild West we like to call it right, Annie, it's the Wild West.  07:59 And I would say in my mind it's likened to all the people, not just women but men too. In my mind it's likened to all the people, not just women but men too, but certainly all the women, who have said for many years you know, I am interested in doing romance novels, exotica work, triple X, adult swim as a voiceover talent, but I'm concerned about how my business is going to be viewed. I'm going to use an AKA, an alter ego, another name, another business name, and so I think that voiceover talent have been making these decisions for a very, very long time. Even though we don't have the visuals for the voiceover talent, we may have the visual for the work and so for the work itself may give visuals and vocals that are not aligned with the talent's vision of their business, and sometimes you don't even know.  08:49 - Anne (Host) Sometimes you don't even know, right. I mean you can tell a lot by the context of the script sometimes, but sometimes you can. You don't know where that's going to end up. And again, now that makes me think of, like, you know deep fakes and AI and you don't know where your voice is going to be used. But if you are, you know, an active participant and you are aware, I think really the best thing you can do if these things are concerning to you, right, the more you know, the more you're educated, the better off you're going to be, because you can make those decisions to determine if you want to be aligned.  09:24 I mean there have been careers ruined by, you know, wrong brand alignment, and gosh knows with today's you know political climate. I mean it comes down to and you know what, laura, it comes down to if you think about it. We're in a business. We need to make money, right, and guess what? So are companies that are advertising, right. They're in the business to make money and so a lot of times our decisions are based on money. Yeah.  09:52 - Lau (Guest) Wake up, smell the coffee right, and it's like who is to judge what one person or one brand identity or one company should or shouldn't be doing. It's really in the eyes and ears of the audience. It's really the perception. So, as many people really disagree, fervently disagree and are angered and outraged by that particular American Eagle campaign, you have a mass swath of people who are buying everything.  10:24 - Anne (Host) That gene that she is, they can't keep. I'm just saying or buying everything that gene, that gene that they can't keep it on the proverbial shelf Exactly.  10:29 Right, Exactly so yeah, and it's interesting because I read a couple of. I read a couple of articles about it and they, of course, american Eagle says it's all about the genes. It's always been about the genes and in reality it kind of is like a return back to marketing. You know, marketing for the last few years has been very concerned with, of course, the shift, notice how the shift in cultural trends, right to making sure inclusivity, diversity, you know, every body type is shown and everybody is represented, which I thought was great. I mean I love that. But apparently, like, if you're in the business, I mean, did it sell? I thought it did.  11:09 Personally, I aligned with it better and I bought, I consumed, just like I did before. However, there is a a huge, there's a huge another aspect to this to unpack, about influencers, right, I mean, in reality, I mean she's a famous actress, right, and so just like Brooke Shields. So if she's going to wear these jeans and feel good in them and look good in them, then that's going to really entice other people to buy and you know, or not, right? And If they, I mean how many times? Lau and I I have very strong ideas about like companies and what they do with their money. So like if they're known to, you know, I don't know, do bad things. I will not support of things that companies do behind the scenes and therefore, when I do find out, I then have a choice, to make a decision whether I want to consume that, you know, buy that or not. And I think that, again, as a consumer and as a voice actor, the more educated we can be, the better decisions we can make to determine if we want to align with that.  12:21 - Lau (Guest) I would totally agree and I would say the irony to me about talking about influencers online is why are they called influencers? Yeah, yeah, they're called influences because they have powerful influence over mass swaths of people who want to look like them, sound like them, live like them, whatever. Of people who want to look like them, sound like them, live like them, whatever. So if we were to make a value judgment, we would have to make it evenly across the board between network television and social media and voiceover and radio and TV, that that is just a no-go, which, of course, no one's going to do. We're not going to do that because you know it's a free country and people are going to run their businesses how they run their businesses girls on Instagram to get that facelift or to get those eyebrows or to get those lash extensions, to feel good about who they are.  13:27 - Anne (Host) Well, oh no, okay, you bring up a really important point here, right To feel good about who you are. So what I do because you know I do a little bit of fashion influencing- I know you are an influencer, actually.  13:39 - Lau (Guest) My well, oh my goodness, put your influencer hat on.  13:42 - Anne (Host) So my influencer hat is and I've been, I've been multiple sizes, I've been big and I've been small, right, I mean, I don't know, I've never considered myself small, but that's a whole nother podcast. So, depending on the size right, I followed different influencers. I found and for the most part, if you think about it, when I was a little bit bigger, I had an influencer who I loved her because she was bigger and she was confident and she was beautiful. And I said, gosh, if I could just be confident. And you know, and as a matter of fact, people in my life I've known, I'm like gosh, she's bigger and she's confident. I wish I could be confident like that. I could be confident like that. And then when I, when I started to lose weight, then I it's funny because I switched, following the one influencer who her body type was a little bit bigger, to an influence it was a little bit more my, my body type size, or maybe even smaller, because it was then helpful, it was motivating for me, or inspiring to me.  14:36 And so, in reality and in every instance, right, the influencer made me feel better about myself. Right, I was either motivated or inspired. To well, people are going to say it might be healthy if you say, oh, I want to look like them. But in reality, when it came to my weight, my body size, it was more about becoming healthy. I needed to become healthy, right. And yeah, the clothes were pretty. I didn't have that option with these clothes at this particular size. So, yeah, there was something inspirational and motivational. And then there was the girl who I still follow. She's a bigger girl who is just beautiful at whatever size she's at, and it's really the message that she's saying. That's really the most important thing.  15:17 - Lau (Guest) But I have a question about that, annie, and I know we're getting a little farther away from the voiceover aspect, but from a performance and business aspect, voiceovers need to be thinking about all of this and how you represent your brand and how you think about what you do. Well, absolutely, my question is you have a lot of these people, including, like Lizzo, for instance she was the first one that came to my mind, yeah who made it very public that they lost a ton of weight and that they are very happy they did that and very happy that they're healthier and very happy at whatever they're at.  15:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  15:52 - Lau (Guest) So it makes you question well, wait a second, is this for branding sake, to have those brands out there because they know, like a big part of the population is, say, has a certain look or a certain size or a certain sound? Well, yeah, the biggest demographic, the biggest demographic, right? Yeah, versus the reality of the person actually feeling good in their life, I'm going to argue that they're performers and they're performing and that many of them don't feel good about some of the choices they've made in their life and therefore they go and change it. Or their company representatives say you need to change this brand because it is not resonating with the majority of our audiences and we will never know.  16:38 Never know how much influence comes from which direction. We will really not know, that right.  16:44 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I mean and again this is I mean for bosses out there if you think we're going off topic, in reality we're not, because we're not talking about marketing and advertising, which directly affects us. I mean, that's where we I mean our voices are representing brands that have fluctuations in the way that they advertise and in the way that they market their products, and it's important for us to understand where it's headed, where the trends are and really what is it that matters. And then, what is it that matters to you as an actor, being a part of that campaign, resonating with a brand that may or may not be controversial? Right, Brands change.  17:26 - Lau (Guest) This is where you have to forgive yourself they shift and change trends over time, because that's the natural state of being a human being, is that you age, you change, trends change whatever. Another one that comes to my mind one of my favorite original rappers and then became actress was Queen Latifah. Yeah, yeah. Who I loved for so many reasons. Yeah she's awesome Right.  17:50 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Rubenesque woman beautiful woman.  17:52 - Lau (Guest) Well, she went on a whole campaign I can't remember what it was, whether it was Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem or whatever it was, but she became the brand ambassador of them to lose weight and she had trouble doing it and she never reached the target weight. When she didn't, they dropped her. Yeah, yeah, okay. So my point is was that her and it made you feel like, it made me feel like you know, when you use Tide or use a laundry detergent and then, all of a sudden, you've been using it and it's been good for years, and then it's like no, all new developed. You think, what have I been using that whole time? It wasn't really good. That's how it made me feel.  18:31 - Anne (Host) Well influencing you know and marketing advertising, influencing in their way influencing right as opposed to, and I think that's why influencers became really popular, because it was real people, it wasn't companies. Well, it was the illusion of real people, right?  18:47 Well, they are real people Right right, oh look, I'm not being paid for this but a lot of times, influencers, they get a little bit of a cut. I mean I, you know, hey, I got a little bit of a cut. I'm encouraged to, you know, try this top or this, you know, this pants set or whatever, and then talk about it so that I can get a little bit of a break or a deal. But I creatively love to curate outfits and, to be quite honest, the amount of time I spend at this point because I don't do it full time the amount of time that I spend, you know, putting together videos and stuff, it takes a lot of time. That's my, that's like a, that's a day of my weekend in reality, and I don't make I don't make half as much money as I do when I'm doing voiceover. So for me that's just like a passion project.  19:31 But what is it that voice actors you know need to do? I mean, I think that you either don't realize that you are an intrinsic part of a brand that could or could not be, you know, I mean, you probably know if they're controversial. It's the same thing with political voiceover, Right, we talked about this like not so long ago. What's you know? Are you on a particular side of the fence? Are you? Is your voice, your voice being speaking things that align with your, what you believe in and your morals and your ethics? Or are you just voicing things to make money, because it happens to be something that pays the bills?  20:09 - Lau (Guest) Right and really paying attention to what your audience is identifying your value as. Like I can come in and say, well, I'm going to provide this, I'm going to do this, but I may not have the calling for that. I have to pay attention. Where is the calling of the audience?  20:27 And then go to the. If I want to go to the full extent of that brand, give them awareness of what it is, awareness of my, you know, professionalism, my ethos in it. Whatever that is, it's not always what I'm starting out to be is what it's going to be. I see that all the time like a mismatch of brand knowledge. Someone would say, well, I do this all the time, I play this all the time and I say, right, but what are you being hired for? What you're being hired for might be very different than what you do in your side life.  21:01 - Anne (Host) And if you think about it, like if you align yourself with a style of voiceover that is, you know, has a message, right, that may or it on levels with brands that I've been associated with, where, if you're not careful and you know I mean with the VO Boss podcast, right, if you're not careful people will associate you with those brands as well, and you know that can be detrimental to your career, to your livelihood, and that is something it's sometimes. It's not an easy decision. It's not an easy decision to make. It's not an easy decision.  21:42 - Lau (Guest) It's not an easy decision to make. It's not an easy decision. You have to realize you're performing a part. So whenever you are in that what I call the awareness zone that's like the industry awareness of who you are Like I feel like I play two parts. One is the real person in the larger world, who may or may not know me, and then the person, the mama, who knows me, who people know me in the larger world, who may or may not know me, and then the person, the mama, who knows me, who people know me in the industry. And when I play that role, I know I'm always to some degree on, you're always on and having that awareness that there is a performance value to what you do. How?  22:15 - Anne (Host) interesting because your brand, since I've known you, has evolved into Mama Lau, which you know what I mean. Because I want to say it's because I started calling you Mama Lau, because that's what I called my mother, and then it turned into Mama Lau, but now as Mama Lau, known as Mama Lau in the industry. Right, you now need to be considerate of. Okay, what does this brand speak about me? And if you were to do something, that would not be Mama Lau.  22:42 - Lau (Guest) Right, so I'm not going to go to Vegas and become a stripper anytime soon. Are you going to?  22:47 - Anne (Host) be an erotic. I mean, would you be an erotica audiobook narrator? I mean, well, maybe not under Mama Lau but, here, you are here you are with. Unless you're going to be a character voice, right, here you are, I know your voice. And unless you're going to be a character voice and I don't recognize that voice, right, our voices are recognizable.  23:07 I mean, some of us have immediately, like I know, this person's voice from you know long you know, far, far away, I can tell that voice and I have that with some of my students that have distinctly unique voices, right, I'm thinking they probably can't go into you know erotica character work if they don't want to know other people to know about it. Yes, you know, if you want other people to know about it, that's fine. But for you, under that brand, you have to. There's a responsibility to that brand, right?  23:34 - Lau (Guest) Yes, there is.  23:34 - Anne (Host) In what you do. It reminds me of. It reminds me of oh my gosh, who was it? Who was it? He was a comedian. He was fired in 2011 due to offensive tweets he made about the Japan earthquake and the tsunami. And it is, oh my gosh, gilbert Gottfried. There you go.  23:50 - Lau (Guest) Oh wow, how could we not?  23:52 - Anne (Host) remember that, yes. I know right Gilbert Gottfried.  23:55 - Lau (Guest) I didn't know that.  23:56 - Anne (Host) Yeah, oh yeah, and it was. It was. That was, I think, when it first, at least when I was in the industry, when it first became evident that social media and what you do outside of your job in voice acting, will have a direct effect, if it's offensive enough, right On your job. And you know, nowadays people have to be careful on social media what they're posting. And because companies can now go check out your social media, because companies can now go check out your social media, and so for you as a voice actor, again, it has to come to mind that if you are known, or if you are known in social media, now your actions, if people were to look you up on social media and find that you're associated with a brand or find that you are, you've done something that I don't know is not something that aligns with their ethics right, it can affect your business.  24:52 - Lau (Guest) So in a way, annie, it's kind of like we're blurring the lines of our real reality of living a life as a person, with our business and our performance career, that there is kind of that expectation that you sort of represent it all of your life, all of your life, and you're not going to go through anything. That's antithetical to that image that is being put out there, which I mean. For me it's easy because I'm kind of like, I'm a mama type anyway, but for the average person I think that would be hard, that would be a challenge.  25:27 Mama Lau as mama Lau would not go to a Coldplay concert and get yourself caught on the probably not. I'd be the person standing outside with food, waving my hand, going what did you do in there? What did you do?  25:37 - Anne (Host) And we should bring that up, because yet there's another like CEO of you know, of a company, and then the director of HR, the director of the people I forget what they call it now. I'm like director of HR, no people, ceo of people. Forgive me for not knowing what her title was. She was HR, wasn't she?  25:55 - Lau (Guest) The head of HR. Yes, Like top HR, you know? Executive.  26:00 - Anne (Host) I think PMO is a people. I forget what it is, but anyways, see it, you know. So, really, if you think about it, what did that do those actions do to the brand? Right To the brand. Yes, they say all all, what is it? All publicity is good publicity, but do you think that this was good publicity for the company?  26:24 - Lau (Guest) No, no, I don't either. I don't think there was any redeeming value to that and that felt to me it could have been happenstance, but it felt like a setup. It felt like someone tipped someone off to put them on the jumbotron.  26:37 - Anne (Host) Oh interesting, I didn't think that it didn't just feel random.  26:40 - Lau (Guest) There was like, like, how many people were there?  26:44 - Anne (Host) 50,000? I don't know. I think I, I didn't think it, I don't think they were set up, I mean, unless you have somebody in the company that's like. Well, I mean, first of all you have to, you have to know the person that's, you know, focusing on the Jumbotron and say, oh my God, wouldn't it be funny if you know I hate that guy or whatever? But think about it?  27:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I don't know.  27:02 - Anne (Host) Your actions in life right can be directly affected these days because of social media, because of the now back in the day when I had to walk to school 10 miles up a hill in the snow. When there wasn't social media, it was a little easier to get away with, I would say, indiscretions like that.  27:24 - Lau (Guest) But now, maybe even now with being a voiceover talent. You've got that anonymity to some degree.  27:31 - Anne (Host) But not as much anymore. I'm saying not as much anymore, remember, because voice actors, we're all about social media, aren't we? Because, guess what we need to get work and what are we doing? We're trying to showcase're all about social media, aren't we? Because guess what we need to get work and what are we doing? We're trying to showcase our brand on social media, and when you do that, you really have to be prepared for repercussions. If you are going to voice a campaign, associate yourself with a brand that may be controversial, and you know something that is a concern for your business. That may not have been so much of a concern maybe 20, 30 years ago.  28:06 - Lau (Guest) It's true, because I think with probably the third generation now, or what would we say, maybe the second generation now, millennials and Gen Zers, who are digital natives, growing, up online on social media like their life online on social media like they didn't see the commercial.  28:23 Their life- is on social media. So their lines are very blurred, like I would say, arguably our generation x not as blurred like I know. When I was younger I used to think, oh, the Brady kids are really like that. Now I realize they're separate people, right, they're separate people than what they did in the sitcom. But nowadays it's like oh, everyone thinks that anything you do online is you, is really you, and so it puts a lot of pressure on those people to say okay, am I in alignment with the kind of brand that I want to have out there or not?  29:02 And a lot of people will say well, you know what do they say? All good, all press, bad press, negative press is still good, press, it's still good. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't think that's true. Yeah, I don't think that's true.  29:15 - Anne (Host) I mean in a way. I mean in a way who said?  29:19 - Lau (Guest) that. Beyonce, who said that Someone big said that I don't even remember, but in a way, american Eagle is benefiting from the controversy.  29:27 - Anne (Host) However, there's really good arguments on either side of it. Again, they're promoting to a crowd you know who are their best sellers. Do you know what I mean? Because, as I and you also talked about in the beginning, we have a certain familiarness with advertising from 30 years ago, right 40 years ago, and so for us, maybe that ad was like oh okay, I didn't think anything of it, but then all of a sudden, because of the younger generation, right, who are like hey, what is this? Or you know, or why, especially with political things going on, what do you mean? Genes like G-E-N-E-S Is that? Then it became a political thing. So I think that we have to be really, really careful, as voice actors on social media, to make sure that we're aware, be aware, educate yourself and be aware of what your voice, what your presence, what your social presence means to your business.  30:33 - Lau (Guest) And I also would add on to that, annie, that we just had a discussion because my group was in New York showcasing of actors and I was really tough, talk about mama, tough. I was really tough and saying listen, I'm just going to tell you this right now If you don't go into your social media right now, before you audition for those agents, those casting directors, those producers, and clean it up and scrub your stuff, scrub it.  30:57 Get reputation defenders. Do whatever you need to do to scrub it. Keep your ideas and ideals separate, because you don't want to alienate people and their whole audience before you even meet them and audition for them, do you? I mean, do you to be a really good note to leave on Digital Digital?  31:25 - Anne (Host) We are digital. We are digital.  31:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Your footprint's there.  31:28 - Anne (Host) Digital is traceable, just saying Digital is traceable, you are. Have you ever tried to? And again, we've never really covered this in depth, but if you think about it, if you ever tried to make a comment and then delete it and then it didn't really delete or did, how many people took a screenshot of that? Yeah, you know, before you deleted it.  31:48 So again, things are digital and things, and because we've gotten again on your phone, on your computer, just assume that people are tracing and I know, yes, you can get it's not right and I get that, but just assume and just you know, honestly, just be aware, be aware and protect your business, protect your voice, protect your business and protect your bossness. Guys, be a bossness.  32:16 - Lau (Guest) And I'll leave on this note in saying yes, and I'll piggyback by saying, even just for who you are as a person, be happy and content with the brand you're creating. Because, you're going to have to live with that for a long time. As long as you have your business, you'll have to live with it.  32:34 - Anne (Host) I have people.  32:35 - Lau (Guest) Annie when I go to a conference or something screaming across the room hey mama, how are you? If I didn't like that, I didn't want that, I'd have to change it. I'd have to really change it and make a concerted effort to do that so be happy with what you're selecting and what you're choosing and what your audience is giving to you and, if not, strategize elsewhere, redirect it.  32:59 - Anne (Host) Good stuff, good stuff, amazing Bosses. We would love to hear your thoughts honestly. So you know, write us at theboss, annaviobosscom. We'd love to hear from you right in our community Facebook page. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. So, Lau, it's been amazing, amazing, as always. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  33:30 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye, see you next time. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.     

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Tom Dheere to discuss a foundational topic for every voiceover career: coaching. The hosts assert that every voice actor, from beginner to veteran, needs a coach. The Bosses explore why continuous learning is a necessity in today's saturated market, how to avoid being overwhelmed by industry information, and the combined importance of mastering both performance and business skills.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey Boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a Boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:44 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to be here with Mr Tom Dheere. Yay, yay, hello Anne, hi Tom, yes, guess what, tom, it's that time of year again.  01:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It is you?  01:01 - Anne (Host) know when everybody's going back to school.  01:05 - Tom (Guest) Back to school. Oh yeah, I already bought my trapper keeper.  01:09 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I used to love those. You know that was one of my favorite things about going back to school is buying office supplies and getting ready, and I was one of those rare. I don't know, tom, if you were one of those students, but I loved school. Love, tom, if you were one of those students, but I loved school. Love, love, love school. And it was always exciting to me to, number one, go back for the social component of things and then to go back and like I don't know. I always wanted to like advance in my subjects, and so I was always excited about learning.  01:37 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, me too. I do love school supplies, like if anyone who knows me as just me, or me as the vo strategist like?  01:47 - Anne (Host) of course he loves school supplies right, you know, sharpened pencils and rulers and everything being organized, paper clips and clothes, clothes, my new school clothes.  01:54 - Tom (Guest) You know, hey, oh, love the school clothes. Gotta get the new school clothes.  01:58 - Anne (Host) Well then, speaking of school, you know. I mean maybe it's time that we have a chat about coaching, coaching in this industry. And does it matter, tom, does it? There's so much information out there. Does it matter? Is it beneficial?  02:15 - Tom (Guest) let's, let's, let's chat about that well, one at first. It's funny that we actually haven't talked about this in the few years that we've done the real bosses podcast and two. You know there's an old saying which is never ask an encyclopedia salesman if you need an encyclopedia.  02:28 - Anne (Host) Yes, exactly so you asking?  02:29 - Tom (Guest) me a voiceover coach. If voice actors need voiceover coaching, we'll say well, of course, the answer is yes.  02:34 - Anne (Host) I know and for me to say do we need coaching? As a coach and demo producer.  02:45 - Tom (Guest) Of course. Of course we're gonna say so. Yes, full disclosure. Of course, we as coaches, yes. But here's the thing about it is that I know ann does not accept everybody that that wants to work with her, and I know that not. I don't accept everybody that wants to work with me for all kind, for all kinds of uh, all kinds of reasons. But every voice, regardless of where they are in their journey, needs coaching. You always need to be learning. The greatest baseball players and musicians everyone has a coach. Tiger Woods has a swing coach. Aaron Judge has a baseball bat swing coach as opposed to a golf swing coach. All the greatest artists and athletes have coaching. Do they know more than most? Can they do it better than most? Of course, that's why they are in the positions that they are in doing what they're doing, making what they're making, being as famous as they are, but it's a constant, constant sort of you know all the arts. There needs to be a constant level of education re-education, continuous learning, as they say, absolutely.  03:49 - Anne (Host) And if you're just starting out in the industry, you have to have a fundamental base. And there is, you know, hey, I am the biggest you know. And Google and gangoozle, and gangoozle, and gangoozle, whatever, I am the biggest lover of you know. Search the internet, find the answers. Because I mean, gosh, back in the day, you remember when we used to have to do research, we'd have to actually go to the library and then you would write, like I'd have to write notes for my term paper on like, on like index cards.  04:17 - Tom (Guest) What is this library? What is?  04:19 - Anne (Host) this library. What is this library? Well, our, I mean the library is at our fingertips and so we can. I mean, there's so much out there and, tom, both you and I put out a lot of content in regards to this industry and you know the business of the industry and performance. I give out performance tips and so I think a lot of times when you're first starting out, it can be really overwhelming, and so having a source, a coach, to go to, to kind of make it less overwhelming, can be an actual advantage as well.  04:52 As for me, what was I saying the other day? Oh, in my Pilates class I was like, yeah, I pay to go to this Pilates class so I can do the stretching on the foam roller that I have here at home and I just don't do Right, so I go and use the foam roller that's at the Pilates studio. But there's something to be said in being in a classroom and and actually saying I am dedicating this time for me to learn something or to, you know, to, to, to grow myself, and coaching is a big part of that grow myself, and coaching is a big part of that.  05:30 - Tom (Guest) I agree, the ability to take time and money to commit to a process that you know in. To a certain degree, you could do some of it on your own, but a lot of people most people, I would say like the reason why I have so many mentorship students that I have is that they're like I just need you.  05:48 I just need to have someone to talk to once a month, bounce ideas off of and hold me accountable for it and when you have, and I love accountability and I love stand up groups and meet up groups, but when they actually have to fork money over to me to basically be a paid accountability buddy, there's something to that, something to that I mean. And also, you know, when you're in an accountability buddy group with an accountability buddy or a mastermind group or standup group, that's all great, but most of them are peers.  06:19 Yes, absolutely With the same level of experience and knowledge as you as opposed to working with you or me or another coach who is just have you know, scads of knowledge and experience and the ability to disseminate that knowledge effectively. And also, I know you and I know you keep up with industry trends on a performance and technology and business and marketing level. So do I. We have to do that to be relevant and effective. We have our means. We read the same blogs and watch the same podcasts as everybody else, but I'm sure I know I have my own little secret methods of how I'm keeping up with things, and I'm sure you do too that we're able to aggregate and have, in a concise Anne, to say this is what's going on in the industry, this is how it applies to you. These are the decisions that you could make based on who you are, your talent level, your experience level, the time you have, the money you have that could get you where you want to go.  07:15 - Anne (Host) Well, and the accountability it doesn't just stop with the student. I mean, the coach is accountable. And that is, I think, where the difference is between peer accountability groups, because peer accountability groups, yeah, we can say, yeah, you were supposed to do this last week, or you, this is, this is on your goal sheet, but the stakes are not as high. I don't believe in a peer accountability group as a coach, because coaches are judged on their effectiveness, right, and they they get business based upon their effectiveness and word of mouth. So when you want to go work with someone where that is a factor, you're going to get education.  07:54 That, I think, really counts and is really intentional and therefore, I believe the quality of that is going to be better and it's going to be directly customized, especially if it's one-on-one coaching, and I do both group coaching and one-on-one coaching. But really, when you get that one-on-one time with a coach, there's nothing better than that, because I mean, I look, I offer group coaching as well, but that one-on-one time is precious. That is where it is all about you. It's customized just for you, your career, your growth. And that is where I think coaching really shines and why it still matters and I think, actually, I think it matters more today than it did in years past, because there's so much more competition out there, tom and there's, of course, you know, the synthetic competition out there there, tom, and there's, of course, you know, the synthetic competition out there and we need to really create something, a footprint for ourselves or a voice print, really for ourselves, that is unique and that is competitive and that can actually connect with our audience, which is what our clients are paying us for.  08:59 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, there are more voiceover opportunities for voice actors of all experience levels than ever ever before. There's more genres than ever. There are more voiceover opportunities for voice actors of all experience levels than ever ever before. There's more genres than ever. There are more casting sites than ever, you know, because when I just started, you know there was radio commercials and TV commercials and you know not that much. I mean there was e-learning, reel-to-reel kind of stuff. You know there wasn't that much more.  09:24 Now there's app narration, explainer videos, you know, audio description. There's just so many other ways to get work. But the flip side of that, Anne, is that it's so complicated because there's almost like there's too many choices and there's too many coaches and there's too many casting sites and there's too many blogs and too many podcasts and too many DAWs and too many CRMs and the ability to navigate that and make sure that their time and money is well spent. It's a huge challenge. I mean, I'm on Reddit pretty regularly hanging out on the voiceover related subreddits and listening and watching and, you know, giving advice and stuff like that, and they all say the same thing I don't know where to find a good coach. I don't know how to vet a good coach. I got ripped off by this coach, isn't?  10:15 - Anne (Host) that funny? That's always the question. That's always the question because I think everybody's overwhelmed with that information. You know, I don't think it's unlike just because it's you know the online world today. I don't think it's unlike choices that you have in most everything, right, where can you find a good one? And so what do we do? We rely on word of mouth, we rely on recommendations from our peers who have had a good coach and can recommend a good coach, and so I think that it's good that we have the community and coaches that are out there. You know, hopefully you have a good reputation and if you don't, and if you're just kind of a fly by night coach, well, people will find that out too. So I think that it's, in a way, it's good that there is lots of talk and communication and I always tell you know people, testimonials are always, they're so worthwhile, and word of mouth and communication, and I always tell you know people, testimonials are always, they're so worthwhile and and word of mouth and recommendations. It really is kind of the way, I think, to get work, to get a good coach to do all of that. But I'm talking for me. I'm involved in the performance aspect of the coaching.  11:19 But you right, first of all, you can have the best voice, you can do the best audition, you can be, have the best performance skills ever, but if somebody doesn't know how to find you, or you're not marketing yourself properly, or you don't have your business set up properly guess what? You're not you're gonna sit there and not get hired. I just spoke to a new student the other day who I literally said he's got four demos. And I and he said, like he's been in the business for six years. And he's like well, I don't have an aging yet and I haven't had a VO job yet. And I'm like well, why have you not had a VO job yet? I mean, he's not like he hasn't spent his money. You know what I mean, and so he needs right.  12:00 And then I went and looked at his website. There's absolutely no. And I said, well, you have no examples of work that you've done. You have, you know, and you can't expect to get it all with just an agent, depending on the genre you're in. And he, basically, I said you can have the best voice in the world, but it's not going to do you any good if nobody can find you. So that's where your business coaching comes into play. So it's not just performance coaching that I think is necessary and business coaching is the non-sexy. It's kind of like I do corporate voiceover and it's like the non-sexy part of voiceover. I think business coaching sometimes gets that same stigma and in fact, it's something that I think people need more than ever, more than ever today. Right, and of course, talk about that, tom, of course as the VO strategist, I always say that everybody should get a business coach.  12:44 - Tom (Guest) But to your point is that you could work with me for years and have the best business model, have the best marketing strategies, but if you're not an effective performer, it's not going to matter.  12:58 Yeah, yeah, just like you said, you could be the best performer in the world, but if nobody knows you exist, it's not going to matter either. So it's this synergistic relationship of developing your what I call your storytelling skills, your VO-101 skills, breath control, microphone technique, your genre skills, you know, to be able to be demo ready, to make that shiny demo, and then you can do the things with the demo, which is what I, as the VO strategist, helps everybody with, and everybody has their own journey. Everybody has their own relationship with themselves internally, which it's our job as coaches to be like. Ok, you know, how does this person tick, how does this person respond? How does this person respond to criticism? How does this person respond to praise? How does this person respond to data? You know, and everybody has their own ideas of what success is for them. And these, you know, these people love these social media platforms and these people hate social media and these people hate all social media, and you know.  14:00 And these people hate social media, and these people hate all social media, and you know. And these people hate online casting sites and so on and so forth. So everybody has their own biases and tendencies and, as effective coaches, on both a performance level and a business and marketing level, you know it's our job to be able to navigate that, and that's why the single most important skill that every voiceover coach performance, business, marketing, tech or otherwise has to have is the ability to listen, which also is the same exact skill that every voice actor needs to be a successful, effective, relevant voice actor. So, if you're having a conversation with someone you're considering coaching with and you can't get a word in because they're talking about themselves or that one cartoon they did 30 years ago, or if it's all sell, sell, sell, that tells you something, because they are not asking you what your pain points are Sure.  14:53 - Anne (Host) Every good marketer Help you solve them.  14:55 - Tom (Guest) Exactly Every good marketer, whether it's a a commercial, tired of using this old mop this way. You know. That's identifying the pain point. If I used to use, I use this mop. This mop stinks. Go use this mop. This mop's great. If there isn't any kind of centered likes, any kind of back and forth, reciprocal. You know what are, what are you going through, what are what challenges have you? What are your struggles? Oh okay, well, based on this, this and this, I can help you with this, this and this, as opposed to some. You know old hack, who's just going to throw these stock scripts at you and you know in three lessons. And then you get your demo using the same scripts that everybody uses or a new hack, who you know?  15:32 - Anne (Host) there are new hacks we've seen a lot of those out there.  15:35 - Tom (Guest) I have noticed quite a few new hacks lately both in the performance and business and marketing categories.  15:42 - Anne (Host) I think also, when you talk about an industry that has evolved and changed so much and especially, you know, this year's been an interesting year I mean you've got changes in things outside of the industry that are affecting, you know, corporations and affecting people who advertise, and affecting the climate of what we do, and so that makes people scared to advertise Sometimes, it makes people scared to spend money. It makes, you know there's all sorts of things happening outside of our industry that affect our industry as well as you know. I mean what's happening in your own personal life as well as you know. I mean what's happening in your own personal life. So we talk about the necessity of performance coaching and business coaching, but there's also, believe it or not, there's something to be said for, you know, coaching of the mind and coaching to be a confident performer, a confident business person, somebody who can be competitive and negotiate in these times where it seems like everybody's vying for the same job, and so there's also mindset skills, I think, that are also valuable to be coached. I think, like you said it in the beginning, like a lifelong learner, I think we always have to be learning. We always have to be learning, and do we have to spend tons and tons of money doing it. No, not necessarily, but I do think that there's an investment there and I think it's something that you need to revisit.  17:08 If you did get coaching prior to your demo, maybe five years ago, and now maybe you need a new demo.  17:15 I personally think that everything needs a refresh and, you know, if you haven't coached in a while, I feel like having someone else's ears listen to you. If you haven't been booking why, why is that? Go to a trusted coach and have them listen to you and see if maybe you've fallen into some sort of a rut where maybe you're not delivering performance-wise I don't know a rut where maybe you're not delivering performance wise. Or, for example, when I spoke to the student yesterday who's like well, I haven't gotten a job yet, and I'm like OK, first of all, I'm looking at your website and you don't have downloadable demos. Your website, your demos, are five years old. You know there's lots of things that can contribute to not getting hired, and so I think that the coaching can. Yes, it's definitely investment, but again, remember, any business, you have investments and I think that again, more than ever, it is important to be educated and understand how you can evolve with the changing VO industry of today.  18:15 - Tom (Guest) I think what I agree with everything that you said wholeheartedly, on top of all, that all voice actors need to invest in empowerment. That is one of the biggest deficiencies that most aspiring voice actors have coming into the industry. They immediately, you know, disempower themselves. They immediately devalue themselves because they have this and this is a system of thought thing that I talk about all the time, Anne is that most people coming into the voice industry think that the industry is vertical, it's a ladder or a mountain and you have to climb it and as you climb it, you kick people in the face and knock them off the ladder or the mountain like it's some reality show and you go ha ha, I take your videos now.  19:01 Haha, I narrate them. You don't blah, blah. That's not how it works. I've always talked about how the voiceover industry is spherical and you're the center of your sphere and your job is to expand your sphere and empower yourself by including as many good humans in it as possible, both agents and managers and audio engineers and coaches and fellow voice actors and your accountant and your lawyer and your graphic designer or your social media manager or whoever to empower you so you can make the best decisions possible to expand that sphere and move your voiceover business forward.  19:36 So to work with an effective coach to be or just to be, just to be educating yourself in general is to empower you you know, on both a personal and a professional level, and the more that you can do that, the better chance you have of making those voiceover dreams come true.  19:55 - Anne (Host) I mean, and and speaking of, we always talk about, what are the red flags? What are the red flags right? How do we know a coach is worthy of my investment? Right, a coach, a business coach or performance coach? You know, I like to start with. First of all, let's let's talk about what it takes to get a good coach. I mean, what are the? What are the green flags Right? What? What do you look for in a good coach? What are some properties of a good coach? Would you?  20:22 - Tom (Guest) say you touched on this earlier. Reputation is definitely one. I mean there's the reputation of someone like a Jennifer Hale who holds the Guinness World Record for the most amount of video game characters ever recorded by a female. So there's a level of something that comes with that.  20:42 Jen also happens to be a great articulator and a great coach, but then there's other coaches that have done one character decades ago hasn't done much work since, and then that's the only thing that they hang their shingle and their reputation on this one character that they played a very, very long time ago. Shingle and their reputation on this one character that they played a very, very long time ago. Jennifer, like you and me and a bunch of our other coaching and voiceover friends are boots on the ground day to day, dare I say, in the trenches. Voice actors. We are working, we are auditioning and marketing and booking regularly. So I always say the first green flag for a good voiceover coach is to go to their voice actor website and go check that out.  21:26 See what they've got, see what they have done recently, see if their demos and YouTube Anne and playlists have been updated recently, check their IMDB profiles and see what work they have done. And layered on top of that, you know, as a voice actor, reputation, obviously, as a voiceover, coach, reputation, testimonials on the website, testimonials on social media platforms, conversations that people are having behind our back on various social media platforms or in subreddits or Discord servers or or facebook groups, like though that's some of the major. Those are two of the biggest green flags is the. You know, because you never know and there is no guarantee of any voice actor achieving any level of success, but you know your chances of empowerment will increase if you work with someone who knows what they're doing, has been doing it for a long time and is doing it today.  22:19 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly. So they have evolved over the evolution of the voiceover industry and so they know. They know what agents are looking for, they know what casting directors are looking for, they know what is relevant and current in the industry. So red flags on the other side.  22:38 - Tom (Guest) Well, the red flags are if they just started. There's a lot of voice actors or aspiring voice actors who do a couple of gigs and all of a sudden they hang out their shingle as a voiceover business coach and marketing coach, or performance coach. You and I see it all the time.  22:55 - Anne (Host) I think there has to be some longevity to it.  22:57 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, there needs to be some longevity to it. Yeah, there needs to be some longevity. Now. Everybody has to start somewhere, and you know someone who may turn out to be the greatest performance or business coach ever has to start somewhere, and start with one student.  23:12 And you know what I mean, but for those that haven't been in the industry for very long, that have little or no IMDB credits or have little or no samples on their voiceover website, all of a sudden they're a coach. Well, that's telling you something, and I've seen it from personal experience. People working, for example, with me get some business coaching from me and then a couple months later they're all of a sudden a business coach. And I'm like wait a minute, wait a minute, they never last.  23:38 - Anne (Host) Well, I always think they never last, though.  23:41 You know, for me it's always like and people say this all the time, right, you know the quick success, right, and I see it in. You know ads, in ads like, hey, you don't need expensive equipment or training to be a voice actor. And you know those are designed to sell the dream. And again we have to say it, you know, and it sounds like a broken record, but just if we reach just one person right and I always tell people like, honestly, it's a skill You're becoming an actor. I mean, that doesn't happen overnight. It is a marathon, not a sprint. It really is a marathon, and the people who are truly successful in this industry know that. And marathon by marathon, I'm not talking six months, I'm not talking three months, I'm not talking, I'm talking years, years of working in this industry and putting in the work, doing the auditions, getting the training. Those are the ones that become successful.  24:38 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely. This is a long-term investment. It's just like going to college, going to medical school, going to trade school going to vocational school.  24:49 It takes a long time to develop the skills and collect the tools, both literal, physical, microphone headphones, daw and the other business and marketing tools understanding how to write a business plan, how to create a marketing strategy, how to make long-term investments through blogging and social media, how to make short-term investments through auditioning on free casting sites and then developing your skills, and then maybe moving to pay-to-play casting sites which have higher quality, higher paying auditions and then using that to develop your skills to maybe then you're ready to submit to agents. There are things that have to happen in order. You know, a tomato can't grow until you plant the seed, water it and wait.  25:37 - Anne (Host) Right, exactly. Well, I love that because so many people are like well, I can't invest in another demo or more coaching until I make money in the industry. So, oh gosh, I wish I had a nickel for every time. Somebody said that to me and I'm like but it doesn't quite work like that In reality. You do have to make an initial upfront investment and it may take you a minute before you make that money back. And so you've got to get the skills developed in both running your business, establishing that you know, hanging out the shingle on your online website. There's money involved in that. There's money involved in you know setting up your business or getting you know good business coaching, advertising yourself. And there's, of course, money in performance wise being, you know, coached so that you're competitive.  26:26 In today's industry, you're competitive and doing well, and even the people who do, who are great performers. It's not always an immediate return on investment. I mean, gosh, I mean I've spoken to veterans out there. I mean you have to understand. You have to be in it long enough to understand that you're not going to get a commercial a day necessarily. I mean I don't know anybody that ever has, and that dream can't be sold to you. You really just have to be. I think you have to think what Malcolm? I always go back to Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours, really 10,000 hours of effort and you know to really start to see effective success. And then you evolve into growing into a better performer, a better actor, a better business person. Tom, if somebody's interested in it, how much would you say is when is a good time to invest? When do they take that step and say plunk down my money, here's my money, coach me.  27:37 - Tom (Guest) I would say what has to happen. I think the first thing that has to happen is that they have to invest in storytelling training first. Theater training, on-camera training, singing training, improv training, stand-up comedy training. Pick one of those disciplines.  27:52 - Anne (Host) But does that mean they have to spend money and go to an acting class? Not necessarily.  27:55 - Tom (Guest) I mean improv troops are free. You know open mic night is free. You know there's community theater is free. There's lots of places where they can develop that skill, because first they need to find out if they have that skill they don't want to be on stage.  28:09 - Anne (Host) That's why they're right. That's why they're doing it behind the mic. That's why right.  28:13 - Tom (Guest) So for those people. Right, and the thing about that is they need to find out if they have the ability, through the power of their voice, to engage and be engaging. If you can do that through those, then you can. Then that's when I think is a good time to start your VO training. Here's the other thing, Anne, is that you know. You mentioned briefly AI at the beginning of it. If you are better than AI when you're, you know when you're starting to invest in your training, you're not going to get anywhere.  28:42 - Anne (Host) And what's going to make the difference? And AI reads really well. So if you're nothing but a really pretty reader, yeah, you got no shot.  28:48 - Tom (Guest) You're not going to advance. That's why getting acting, theater, improv, stand up or singing training is going to already you're hitting the ground running by already being better than AI when you're, once you're ready for your VO training. That's why I think you should really start that way.  29:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, One thing I do want to stress is that my coaching has gone. It was always been acting based. I mean it starts with acting based. So for those people who've never taken acting course, I always I always recommend that they take an acting course anyway, because there's a subtle difference between acting in front of other people or acting with people and then acting behind the mic, and it's nice to have that 360 degree view of all the aspects of the acting. And a good coach will teach you voice acting and not just here's a script, here's how and direct you to a sound that would sound good on a demo, really, and that's why I concentrate. I'm almost obsessed with personally training people to be good actors, because that's going to last them so much longer than just a directed demo. Right, Because if any good director can direct you to a good demo, really it's.  29:55 You know they can give you the read that people are looking for and then you can have a great demo. But then, all of a sudden, when you're asked to produce that or you're trying to audition and you're wondering why you're not booking the jobs, that's because you haven't established the basic skills, the basic acting skills required. Definitely, investment is not just in a voice acting coach, but, yes, in, I think, acting classes, improv classes. All of that can help. All of that can help.  30:21 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely. It's just going to make you that much better, that much faster and that much better of a decision maker than AI, because the real skill, when it comes to true performance, is not about what impressions you can do is can you make strong acting choices quickly, right, right, right. And if you can do that when the client says, hey, abc. That for me, and you can do is can you make strong acting choices quickly, right, right, right. And if you can do that when the client says, hey, abc that for me, and you can give them three takes with different emphasis and different motivations and different levels of engagement.  30:47 That's what's going to get you ahead of the pack.  30:50 - Anne (Host) And honestly, it's one of those things that you have to understand that if you're looking, if you happen to just be getting in this industry and you watch social media, be careful with that, because a lot of what happens on social media is all the positive things, all the hey I booked the gig but I can't tell you about it, or the illusion that you know people are successful, because you know it takes a very special person to be on social media and say, oh gosh, I didn't nail it and I'm so upset Because a lot of times, well, first of all, if it's something that's under NDA, we can't really talk about it anyways.  31:28 But if you give the illusion or you're looking at other people that are giving the illusion that they're successful and making tons of money and they just started or they didn't do it this way, there's multiple ways to be successful in voiceover and there are some people that would say you don't necessarily need coaching. Honestly, I don't buy into that, but I think at some point everybody needs to have that extra ear, hearing them or giving them some sort of education about it, whether it could be a manager, it could be a talent agent. It doesn't have to be an actual voiceover coach, but somebody that's giving you feedback so that you can then take that feedback and improve. Do what you need to educate and improve yourself.  32:12 - Tom (Guest) I think you touched upon something very critical which is one of the most important skills is the ability to self-direct and with COVID wiping out all in-person auditions, at least here in New York City, and for most voice actors, almost 100% of their actual bookings are going to be taking place at home, not being directed. Then you need to learn how to listen to yourself objectively when it comes to pace and tone and inflection and sibilance and regionalisms and mic placement and breath control and, obviously, performance choices. That you should be able to learn how to hear yourself and adjust accordingly, because if you can't do that, you can't be an effective voice actor.  32:58 - Anne (Host) That's a process being able to self-direct, it's being able to develop an ear. An ear doesn't happen overnight, typically, it just doesn't. It's hard for people to actually hear themselves without actually hearing how they sound and to evaluate themselves as an actor. So it is tough. Themselves as an actor. So it is tough. And it does take, I think, a lot of I'm going to say a lot of practice, a lot of you know, auditions, a lot of failing, a lot of just going oh shoot, what could I have done wrong? Or maybe feedback, and so, yeah, there's a lot to that. I mean, gosh, we could just go on all day. But guys, again, you know we're both coaches. Of course we'd love it if you coach with us, but just know that it's valuable. It's valuable in today's voiceover industry to have another set of ears, to have a trusted coach, somebody. That's what they do. They've been established in the business that is guiding you along this career, which, again, is a marathon not a sprint. Good discussion, tom, yeah.  33:57 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Good discussion All right, tom.  33:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, good discussion. All right guys. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like bosses, like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  34:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by a very special guest, Aisha Manrique, a distinguished voice talent and coach whose voice resonates across the Caribbean and beyond. In this illuminating conversation, they explore the unique landscape of the Caribbean voiceover industry, where talent must build their careers through hustle and intentional branding. Aisha shares her inspiring journey, from being "divinely called" to the industry to becoming the voice of Disney.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the incomparable Melique Berger, a true icon in the voiceover world with over 50 years of acting experience. In this powerful conversation, they explore the central truth of the industry: a voice actor must be an actor first.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by her lovely co-host, Danielle Famble, for the Boss Money Talk Series. The BOSSes tackle a fundamental challenge of a voiceover freelance career: managing inconsistent income. Drawing from her past job experiences, Danielle shares practical wisdom on how to budget, save, and build a financial cushion. This conversation redefines "budgeting" as a tool for empowerment and offers a strategic roadmap for every voice actor to take control of their finances, ensure stability, and thrive.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, are you ready to achieve those dreams? With MyLife Transformation coaching services, I can help you reach your full potential. Don't let fear and uncertainty hold you back. Take control of your life today. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started.  00:20 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:39 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm Anne Ganguzza and I am here with my lovely co-host, Danielle Famble.  00:49 - Danielle (Guest) Hey Anne, hello Danielle, hey, hey, how you doing, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.  00:53 - Anne (Host) Well, I am glad to have you back and I have a topic for discussion today, because I've had, on more than one occasion, some students recently talk to me about gosh. I'm just having a hard time finding work and I don't know if I should continue to stay in this industry because it's just getting too hard. I mean to sustain it, and so what should I do? It would be a worthy topic of discussion to talk about, like this particular industry and how we handle our financial situation in times of inconsistency, because it's just a known fact, guys, bosses out there, it is an inconsistent, it is part of being an entrepreneur. Our, our income is inconsistent. So what do we do and how do we budget for those times when maybe it's slow or, you know, when it's not slow, and what do we do when we have inconsistent income?  01:55 - Danielle (Guest) That's such a good question. That's a big part of being a boss, being an entrepreneur and being in this business, and it's good to give the perspective one you know to your students that you're coaching and to anyone listening. You're not alone. It doesn't mean that you're a bad voice actor. It doesn't mean that you're bad at this business. That is the nature of what it is, that we do, and so it has nothing to do with you or your worth or the fact that you're not good. Slow months happen all the time. It happens to the best of us.  02:24 - Anne (Host) And you know, I think it's really something a point worth mentioning is I've been in this industry about 18 years and it's always inconsistent, like there's not been a year where it hasn't been inconsistent. So it is something that I think, if you plan correctly and you're prepared for, it doesn't come as a surprise and it's something that you can absolutely continue to grow and build your business through oh, totally Inconsistent income. So, as long as you plan and strategize, yeah, and you just know this is normal.  02:56 - Danielle (Guest) This has not got anything to do with you. This is a normal thing, you know. It reminds me of I don't know if you know this, anne, but I used to be a waitress for a long, long time. I was a waitress at comedy clubs and the way that I made my money was on tips, and so I got used to living on an inconsistent income and realizing that there's going to be a couple of days or weeks or months where it's going to be great and then it's going to be slow. Maybe you get cut because it's so slow that they don't need you to be there. But you know, the thing that didn't get cut was my fixed expenses, my rent, my cell phone bill, all of those things.  03:35 So I would say to those are stable. Yeah, figure out what your stable expenses are and make sure that you can keep that as your base and plan for your base Anything on top of that. You know when times are great and when you're making a lot more money, you can use that to keep it to the side for a buffer, but really just know what your base expenses are, which then goes back to our longstanding conversation about knowing your numbers and the data and everything else. If you're too afraid to look at what your expenses are, you're not going to know what your base is that you need to be able to maintain at all times. So really like have the courage, look at what are your expenses that are fixed, that are stable, and know what your base is, and you want to be able to hit your base every single month.  04:22 - Anne (Host) So then, budget around your worst month, not your best month. Yeah, absolutely Right. And and that and the and the numbers on your worst month can can actually like I. I mean, I could say what are your expenses and your worst month would be you didn't make anything. Budget around that. That's what I would say. Right, that's your worst case scenario, and so you'll still need to be able to function. And so what does that mean in terms of if I don't make any income for an entire month, does that mean I should give up my voiceover business, danielle?  04:54 - Danielle (Guest) I don't think so, but I do think that you do need to have some way of knowing that there is income coming in from another form. So maybe it's not the income coming in from your voiceover business, because you didn't make anything that month but you do have a nine to five or you do have a babysitting job or you do have. You know, you do Uber on the weekends or what have you. Just know that there needs to be, that money needs to be coming in from somewhere else. If it's not coming in from somewhere else, then we need to find how can we get to our first dollar. Is it in voiceover? Is it in another way of making money? But make sure that you know that there is some income coming in so that, even if the income from your voiceover business is at zero for the month, you know that there is income coming in from somewhere else that's going to be able to offset and still hit your baseline goal.  05:43 - Anne (Host) And I think your budget right for those months you don't live on that budget. I mean it should be a budget for a budget that is a low-income month, not necessarily like I'm going to continue to go to Starbucks every morning or I'm going to. Maybe that's a necessity, maybe you feel like that's worked into your bare necessities, but is that something that you're willing to give up in a low-income month? Or is going out to dinner? I think that's the biggest one. I think, like my husband and I are like okay, we got to stop going out to dinner, right, because that's an unnecessary expense. If we're trying to tighten our budget during a low-income month, it's mostly like oh, and we're going to go out and spend money doing this, or are we going to go out and spend money doing that? A lot of times it's based around food. Why is that?  06:25 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I mean, that's mine as well. It's food, but then sometimes it's you know, if you're going to be spending additional money on things in your business, maybe it's that you forego coaching for the next couple of months because you don't really have the money for that, or maybe you need to forego some other things in your business and subscriptions that maybe can be paused. It's not just what you're doing in your life, it's also things that you can cut back in your business too, so that you can make sure that you know. You know, I know that my fixed expenses for the operations of me are this these are the things that will you know, that are always going to stay the same my housing, food, you know, basic necessities, business expenses.  07:10 - Anne (Host) Business expenses as well, I'm going to say rocket money. I had a free trial and I used it. It's great for finding out those recurring monthly expenses that you have that all of a sudden like oh, that Sirius XM like subscription that I have for my car, which I don't drive very often because I work from home, right, but now I can play SiriusXM everywhere, but still that subscription costs, and it used to only cost like $12.99. Now it's like $25 a month, and so that can help you keep track of those subscriptions that creep up on you that you may or may not be utilizing.  07:44 - Danielle (Guest) And everything is a subscription nowadays, so really you have to. It's so sneaky, but you can find a lot of unused subscriptions and then you can recoup some of that money back just by saying no, thank you to those subscriptions.  07:59 - Anne (Host) Think about your Starbucks as a subscription. That's true, really, if it's something you do every day, I mean really. I mean I know there's a lot of people that that's a daily habit, and you know. Think of that as a subscription. And one other thing I wanted to mention, and I would not have even thought of this really until I incorporated and became an S Corp but I am required to pay myself a salary, right, and that's something that you know.  08:22 When you're trying to like skimp on your, your budget, or you're trying to figure out your expenses, don't forget you need money to live, you need money to buy the groceries, you need money to pay the rent you need, and so I think it's always a good idea, even if you're not an S-corp, to really kind of think about here's the money coming in. A portion of that should be set aside for my expenses, for me, right, that's my salary, and then pay yourself on a set schedule. I think that helps you really get an idea as to okay, here's the money I need to live on, here's the money that's profiting in my business. I don't know. It's just one of those things that maybe it's worth it to take a look at.  09:03 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely. That should be a core staple that everyone should be doing is you know we're doing this. We're in business to make a profit, and so the idea is I need to get paid, and making sure that you pay yourself first so that you are getting used to, and your business is getting used to, that expense of making sure you're paid. That's the study and that's actually how you can stay steady is okay. I know that I'm going to be paying myself a certain amount every single month. That is the expense of my business to pay me, but that's also how I'm able to pay my bills, keeping that steady, and it doesn't need to be that you wait until you are an S-Corp to do that. I would say try to start doing that as quickly as possible. Once you have established the fact that you're doing this business, you're in business.  09:51 - Anne (Host) I would not have realized that until you know I really started an S-Corp and I should have actually. Again, I needed to take a look at the numbers.  09:59 - Danielle (Guest) Here's the deal when you do have those lean months, it doesn't come as such a shock no-transcript Because if you wait, that is going to be a surprise likely to you where you're not really expecting it. And then you get into a really unfortunate situation where this inconsistent income has caused an inconsistent pattern in how you're paying yourself and how you're putting money to the side. So make sure that when you're paying yourself you're also making sure to take care of your tax liabilities.  11:01 - Anne (Host) Yes, Excellent idea. And another thing, as I look at you here in your brand new, shiny, sparkly studio, right and we've talked about this so many times before is having that financial cushion, right, Having that emergency fund. But I think honestly, like, if you can have more than just that emergency fund, which doesn't get touched under the extreme circumstances of an emergency, but consider having another fund which is, you know, just a one to three cushion fund, right, Right that you have to live in the event that you have a slow month, right, and having that separate fund where you feel secure and confident that you can take from that fund and you're not dipping into that emergency fund. Because I always feel guilty if I'm dipping into my emergency fund. Well, number one, because my emergency fund is heavily invested in my high-yield savings account, which doesn't mean that you can't have a one to three-month cushion also sitting in a high-yield savings account, and so I always feel like, oh, I don't want to touch that because I want to keep earning interest on the greatest amount of money possible Sure yeah.  12:06 And so that's my emergency fund, but also maybe having a separate fund just for, oh, times are lean this month and you know, and I'm going to say, maybe, in order to give me better mental health, I do need a Starbucks today or I do need a pair of earrings today. But I'm going to be a caution. I'm going to caution people to not necessarily go out and shop your, your financial worries away, because you know, that's me. I've definitely been in that trap where, oh, I just need to feel better. Let me go out and buy some new clothes, yeah, or a new lipstick, yeah.  12:41 I think try not to do that. But you know, I think that one to three month other fund that you have will help you to pay the bills.  12:47 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely. And so then you can use sort of a system where you're making sure that when things are inconsistent and times are a little bit leaner and you're not making as much money, you know what your baseline, your core base expenses are. And then, when things are going really well and you're making a lot more money and you had a really great month, you put some of that money to the side in that cushion fund that's not your emergency fund and when things are low, you use that cushion fund to make sure that you're staying afloat. I like that sort of cycle of making sure that you are taking care of yourself. It's not necessarily feast or famine when things are going really well.  13:28 You have already looked ahead and taken care of yourself, because you know that this is a cyclical business, this is inconsistent. It's an inconsistent income kind of business and you know that one day you're going to need to use the money that you are currently making. Don't just spend everything that you're making. Put it to the side so that when it is inconsistent and when it is a slower month, you're pulling from the times when you had a really great month to keep yourself, you know, in balance. And that's, I think, the way to do it is you should look at this month or any given month, as am I taking care of me now, or am I taking care of me now and me in the future? But always make sure that you are doing that delicate balance.  14:16 - Anne (Host) Speaking of, you know, setting aside money for taxes, and setting aside, you know, that money. Don't forget about retirement guys. Don't forget about a retirement fund. Please don't forget about retirement. One thing I want to say is that and I'm not a money girl, right, or I never thought of myself as a money girl, but can I just tell you, the software companies are making it easier and easier. Like your credit cards are now categorizing your spending, right, Because, of course, they want you to use the credit card more. So they're going to categorize it and you can find out where your expenses are going, and if you use the credit card, you can get 3% back. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. They want to encourage credit card spending, but also you can use that as a method for really finding out where is all your money going.  14:57 Quickbooks like I never thought. Like my QuickBooks Online. Like you can generate a report literally a report in a matter of seconds, Whereas before it used to be really difficult, man, If you were doing like spreadsheets. And I don't know, Danielle, I can't remember what product you use, but I mean I need something simple, something that does the work for me. Some people are really hardcore and go right into the Excel spreadsheet and that's how they track their budget. But, like for me, I just generate, I flip, I generate a report really quickly in QuickBooks and it tells me, oh my gosh, I spent so much money this month on my expenses going out versus what was coming in, and so I can really then make an educated and strategized decision based upon those reports.  15:39 And I can do, I can generate those reports at the flick of a button. And even if I hate finances right which I know a lot of people don't like to look at their, their money yeah, it's again one of those things. This is your business and it is something that, if you're not looking at it, pay somebody else to do it, like my accountant. Then talk with your accountant and say, hey, look, where's all my money going. Or I found that I had a slow month. And then have that weekly meeting or that monthly meeting that says here, OK, they can break it down for you and say, look, you're, they can generate the reports and they say, look, here's what you're spending on lipstick and or here's what you're spending on restaurants going out, and here's where you can maybe potentially save money. Or think about taking this money that you have left over and putting it into this type of an investment account.  16:23 - Danielle (Guest) This money that you have left over and putting it into this type of an investment account and taking care of future you.  16:29 So you've got sort of the shorter term future you of this one to three months cushion for when times are lean. You've got your emergency fund, which usually I say you know, six to eight months I say closer to for me, yeah, six to eight months, which is a pretty big emergency fund, but that's because we're self-employed and so I want to have a pretty good cushion, or the longer term fund being your retirement. And there are ways, depending on how you have it set up, where, if you're investing in your retirement account, that helps you in tax time because it might lower the amount that you are paying on your taxes.  17:05 So it is always forward looking. It's looking at what's happening today and it's looking at what would be happening in the shorter term future or longer term future. And how can you use the windfall that you have or maybe are not experiencing now? How can you use that to keep you afloat, you know, with your core base expenses. But it really is again going back to do. You know what those core base expenses are Right, and how can you stay, you know, level with them. And if you need to dip into the bank of you, then you can do that with no shame and no problem, knowing that you've already done the work to take care of yourself.  17:44 - Anne (Host) From a girl that's a little less of a money girl to a girl who is a money girl. One thing that always sneaks up on me are those antics annual fees or the recurring right subscriptions or that come up once a year. Because I went from let's not do it every month, let's save and let's do yearly subscriptions, but every once in a while, if I'm not paying attention, that yearly subscription will come up and it'll be taken out of my account and I'll be like whoa, how do you do you prepare yourself? I do For those things. So talk about how you prepare you know some of those things.  18:18 - Danielle (Guest) you know we use the word like surprise expenses, when, like it's kind of like these are super noble things, like yeah, I signed up for that credit card that has that high annual fee.  18:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It was me.  18:28 - Danielle (Guest) It wasn't like some, somebody impersonating me Right large expense, that is, a knowable expense. I typically will put a calendar alert in a month in advance so that I can remind myself that this is coming. For example, my credit cards. I have the American Express Platinum card, I have the American Express Gold card and they have very high annual fees and for some reason I applied for them around the same time of the year and different years. So they, the annual fees, they come and they hit like roughly, like right, one after the other and I always think to myself Danielle, what did you do?  19:05 Why did you do that? Why did you do that? Why did what were you doing in December that you really needed a new credit? Why did you do that right in the same time. And that's, you know, my own personal journey. But I know that it's coming, so I can prepare either a little bit every single month to make sure I'm ready for that, yeah, or because I've given myself that calendar alert saying hey, danielle, just so you know this is coming up next month, I'm already mentally and financially prepared that that hit is about to happen. Most of those, you know, those subscriptions, those annual subscriptions, those are things that are knowable expenses, albeit big expenses. So your calendar is your very best friend. Give yourself the heads up and know that it's coming.  19:49 - Anne (Host) I agree I live by my calendar anyway for a day-to-day schedule of things that I'm doing. And I think if you have a calendar, a financial calendar, I mean my goodness. I mean you could make an easy financial calendar. I use Google Calendar for everything and they're color-coded when do I have coaching sessions? When do I have monthly workouts coming up, when do I have all of these things, holidays and that sort of thing, so you could have a financial calendar that has all of your subscription renewals and or your monthly costs, like those base costs that we talked about, so that you're prepared.  20:25 This month I'm going to plan on spending this amount of money. And also, again, it's one of those things that if you have an accounting software that can be generated in an accounting software easily, your monthly budget, absolutely, and you know it's something that you need to like. And again, I'm talking from a girl. I'm not a money girl, but I have to force myself to do that and take a hard look at what's going out every month and how can I cut? And I recently just said, ok, how can I trim the budget in my company, because I had been like, oh, let me try this software. I'm a big risk taker Danielle, and we talk about this thing, I hoard software too.  21:04 Yeah, I buy software subscriptions, I try things out and then I forget about them sometimes right.  21:10 I was like, oh, I haven't used it. I tried that out, I paid for the subscription, I forgot about it. So every once in a while I have to revisit what am I putting my money into, and has it given me a return on my investment? And if not, I need to trim the fat. And so I really I did that more recently so that I could have money to invest in something different.  21:31 So again I had, and I invest in in people who who work for me, and again I wanted to invest in some additional advertising, and so I needed to get that money from somewhere Right. So I had to kind of figure out where can I consolidate my expenses Right? Can I get, now that you know I've evolved in my business so many years, maybe I don't need this particular, I don't need as much social media, maybe I don't need, you know, that monthly subscription to this particular? You know, pay to play. Am I really using this pay to play?  22:07 And again, you know, figure out what am I? Where's my money coming in? Where am I making the most of my money? And do I want to reinvest my money coming in into that, into getting more of that, or do I want to reinvest my money coming in into that, into getting more of that, or do I want to diversify and maybe explore another genre of voiceover, or I want to get more voiceover work in this particular genre? What's it going to take for me to get there? So I think, really again taking a look at the money, and if you hate looking at money, I suggest, even if you hate looking at money, it's something that you got to do. Consider it an education in running your own business.  22:40 - Danielle (Guest) I would consider, if you hate looking at money, that you really need to look at money.  22:46 - Anne (Host) If you don't like it, then you really need to do it If you don't like it, that's a flag.  22:50 - Danielle (Guest) That's a flag, that's a flag. Run toward it, run toward it.  22:55 - Anne (Host) I love it.  22:55 - Danielle (Guest) I was told by my financial advisor to have money dates with myself, and I think what you're talking about would be a really great thing to do twice a year of these sinking funds, these mini emergency fund or emergency fund, so that you know where you need to divert more of your money in the good months, in the months where you're making so much more money than you planned for. That's really a great thing to do and I would say once or twice a year to reevaluate that, because maybe your one to three month or your short term emergency fund, let's say, is about a couple thousand dollars under. So you know. Ok, you know what. Why don't I put my money and my focus on beefing that up so that when we have these inconsistent months or when we have lower months, I know that I'm good. You won't know until you take the time to really look at it. So give yourself the money date of taking a real look at your money and knowing your numbers about what is your core expenses, what can you maybe trim or what can you press pause on, and then what can you run toward when it's time and when you have the money for it.  24:18 I love the idea of sinking funds. You have a fund specifically for your education, for your just slower months, for things that you do when you book that really big job and maybe you want to take yourself on a nice you know nice dinner or something like that like ways to celebrate. You can have multiple of these sinking funds. That's what something like that, like ways to celebrate. You can have multiple of these, these sinking funds. That's what I like about some of these online accounts where you can have a bank account that will give you an unlimited number of smaller, you know, virtual accounts where you can just put that money to the side I love that that's great.  24:52 - Anne (Host) It's a really great hack that I use.  24:54 That's a new concept and and what I like.  24:57 What I like about how you're talking and you're phrasing this whole conversation is you're talking about funds, right, you're talking about fund accounts, yeah, versus when, when and I don't know if this is just me and my age, but, like whenever I was talked about, well, you need to set up a budget that had a negative connotation and that meant that I wasn't making the money that I should have been making, or I was. You know what I mean? I was somehow lacking in whatever, mostly in money, right, I was lacking in money and the ability to either manage my money or whatever it was, but it had a negative connotation and I think that we need to reframe that whole concept. Again, if we talk about, like, money blocks, right, it could be a form of a money block and, in reality, the term budget, you can rephrase it to say you know, your money funds or your fund account it's giving you more of like a permission to celebrate it because you are strategizing, you are creating a future with a purpose, yes, and your purpose is focused, strategized and smart.  26:03 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely, and it's purposeful. It's what you've decided that you're going to do. So budgeting for me, when I think about it, it's what am I deciding that I'm going to be spending my money on and this money is allocated towards that thing that I already decided. If you take away the concept that a budget is restricting you, it's not restricting you. It's where you have already pre-purposed and pre-determined where your money is going to go, and then you just do as you set out. It gives you freedom and it puts you in the driver's seat. You decided that you want to spend your money on the Starbucks or your whatever, and isn't that what we?  26:44 - Anne (Host) yeah, Exactly, Isn't that what we decided? Bosses right, we are in the driver's seat. We are the boss Totally, and you know you need to be the boss of all aspects of this business. And I think, if you really take a look at your budgets and or your funding accounts and I love what you just said about the virtual accounts there, Danielle that's a concept that I actually was not aware of, so now I'm going to be researching that because I love that, I love being able to it's like my content buckets for social media, right? This?  27:15 is going to be my fund buckets for Ann's Lipstick, no, for my business. Right For that Starbucks account. I've got money in it. So I think that really gives us a much clearer strategy and purpose when really looking at our business. And again, you always want to go forward and move forward in your business and this is one way that you guys can get there Totally.  27:38 - Danielle (Guest) You are in the driver's seat. These are not things happening to you. You can make the decision as to where you spend your money when it comes, and if you need to dip into the bank of you so that you future you is taken care of, because the you of today did the work to make sure that they were taking care of future. You Love that. That's. What I love about being an entrepreneur is that I'm taking responsibility for myself and taking care of responsibility of myself today and also future me, by putting money into the spending buckets or to the sinking funds, to my retirement account, to my emergency fund, and then I am making these financial decisions with me in mind, because that's my job is to take care of myself and also the people that are around me that I touch with my business, with my life, with my purpose.  28:32 - Anne (Host) And with that lovely words of wisdom, danielle, I'm going to thank you so much. What a great conversation. Yeah, this is a great conversation. Love it, love it, love it. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like the money boss that Danielle is. I absolutely love it. I love, love, loved our conversation. Thank you again, bosses. Have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  28:58 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSS Anne Ganguzza is joined by Lau Lapides for a discussion on the most fundamental skill for a successful voice actor: storytelling. From breaking out of a predictable melody to using props and sensory cues, Anne and Lau provide actionable tips and acting techniques to help you bring authenticity, emotion, and life to every script.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Tom Dheere to tackle a topic many voice actors fear most: marketing. In this episode, they break down the essential difference between direct marketing (you go to them) and indirect marketing (they come to you). The hosts discuss how to make both strategies work for you, offering a powerful, actionable roadmap for building a sustainable voiceover business. 00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:44 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, the Real Boss, Tom Dheere.  00:56 - Tom (Guest) Hi, I'm seeing the light ring in my glasses. I'm going to change. I want to change these.  01:01 - Anne (Host) Wait, I thought you said I'm seeing the light.  01:03 - Tom (Guest) I'm seeing the light. Well, yeah, no, but the light was seeing me and my glasses, so I'm switching over. I have, like different pairs of glasses for where I'm at.  01:11 - Anne (Host) No, really. So like these are better. I hear that. I hear that Yours are part of a marketing strategy.  01:18 - Tom (Guest) Mine are purely because my eyeballs are decomposing. I can hear them.  01:22 - Anne (Host) But me too, though, I need them as well, and I figure I might as well make them part of a marketing strategy. And speaking of marketing, yes. Great segue, isn't it? I think it's one of the most feared things for any voice actor is to actually think and do marketing, and so it's a great topic to talk about, because, I mean, we could talk like multiple podcasts about it, but let's talk about marketing Indirect marketing, direct marketing. They're both important.  01:49 - Tom (Guest) Yes, absolutely.  01:50 - Anne (Host) Let's distinguish the difference.  01:52 - Tom (Guest) Right, and this is the thing that when most people come into the voiceover industry, they think and their instinct is correct, so I need to market myself. What does that mean? For most people, it's slamming into social media sideways and talking about what they had for breakfast, or it most often means cold calls and cold emails. Now, you can clearly lump all of that stuff together into marketing, but there's a lot more to it. It's a lot more nuanced than that.  02:18 - Anne (Host) You say the word cold calls and I think people go cold. I know they do. They're like oh no cold calls now.  02:25 - Tom (Guest) So the way I talk about it is that there is direct marketing and then there is indirect marketing, also known as active marketing or passive marketing. So direct or active marketing is when you are seeking out specific potential clients and you are basically grabbing them by the lapels and saying, hey, you give me money to say stuff out loud.  02:48 - Anne (Host) Here I am. Hello, this is me.  02:50 - Tom (Guest) Hello, right Now that's a cold call, that is a cold email. There's also follow-up emails and getting your seven touches.  02:57 - Anne (Host) And that's direct, because it's direct contact with a potential client.  03:01 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. And then there is indirect marketing, which is where you're kind of like doing your thing over here in hopes that people or robots will notice you Right and come to you Right. So, for example, working on search engine optimization on your website, that's a form of indirect marketing or passive marketing, because if somebody's searching for you, hopefully your website or your content will rank higher on Google, bing, yahoo and they'll be like, hey, who's this person? And then they reach out to you Right.  03:30 - Anne (Host) Or they're seeing you on social media.  03:32 - Tom (Guest) Social media, exactly, is another perfect example of indirect marketing. So that's where you're kind of like demonstrating your value, your progress, your humanity as a voice actor and a person, in hopes that it will get voice seekers' attention and be engaged with your content and hopefully you'll stay top of mind for future projects.  03:50 - Anne (Host) An easy I would say an easy way of thinking about it is direct marketing. You go to them In direct marketing. They're coming to you.  03:58 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right.  04:00 - Anne (Host) I think, equally terrifying for voice actors yes, yes, I think that it's great that we made the distinction now between the two.  04:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  04:09 - Anne (Host) I think the one that really causes people probably the most terror is the direct marketing part of it, because they have to reach out to someone who is a complete stranger to them and that we are a complete stranger to them and they're a complete stranger to us. And so direct marketing, I think, requires, I think, a little more knowledge, so it makes it a little less scary.  04:29 - Tom (Guest) I think so too.  04:36 - Anne (Host) That's the way I see it, and what I try to explain to a lot of my students who talk about marketing and their fear of marketing is, of course, all the indirect methods, which they're probably much more apt to do, because they can create a blog, they can go on social media, they can create a video, they can do things like that, and that to them, I think, is more of a concrete path than oh my God, I got to go find someone. Who do I reach out to, what do I say and how does that work? And so I think the first distinction that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying. Is that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying is just an understanding that people have needs. How many times can I bring up the Chanel lipstick, right?  05:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How many times it's a great example.  05:10 - Anne (Host) I just keep going back to it where here's the Chanel lipstick. It is part of my brand and I want to work with this company, chanel, and so ultimately, they don't know who I am. I mean, I kind of know who they are, but I don't know exactly who I should contact. And so when does Chanel have a need for voiceover? Right, when they have a campaign, right when they have a campaign and when maybe they have a voiceover and they want to replace that voice, and so it's very much based on need and when they need voiceover, a voiceover.  05:41 It's not that. Oh, I'm going to reach out and I never heard back and therefore that's a bad lead or it didn't work or I'm done. I failed. You cannot think that, guys, because it's all on a timely basis, so when I need a new lipstick, I'm not constantly searching for a new lipstick, but when I need one, then if an email comes my way or a social media ad comes my way talking about a new shade of red, I'll be like, oh, I need that, let me look into it.  06:10 And that's the same thing that, as a voice actor, you need to understand about direct marketing.  06:14 - Tom (Guest) Right, put it another way. And what are the client's pain points? How can you cure what ails them? How can you solve their problems? So I'm going to take your Chanel lipstick example and I'm going to continue it. So let's put it in voiceover terms Chanel wants to advertise that lipstick. So they want to make advertisements of some sort. It could be print, it could be digital, it could be TV, radio streaming or whatever. Right, chanel?  06:42 - Anne (Host) Look to me, Chanel. I talk about you all the time. I'm just saying In my podcast Please make Anne a compensated endorser for your lovely products.  06:51 - Tom (Guest) So Chanel usually would have to hire a marketing agency or an ad firm or something like that to come up with whatever. The concept would be. Okay, well, this is Chanel, it's this type of lipstick, we're targeting this type of audience, or they?  07:04 have it in-house or they have it in-house and they'll say, okay, well, our demographic is women of this particular age range.  07:19 Okay, so we need to make sure that the content and context of the advertisement is making sure that we're targeting that particular demographic.  07:22 It needs to appeal to them on a visual or an auditory level or some other combination of that. Maybe we need to get an influencer in here or a celebrity or something like that, but we still need a voice actor to do whatever the radio or streaming or TV is. So they come up with a concept, they write the script. Now they need to get a production company to turn this script into reality and then the production company now this is where they have choices. They can go to a casting director and a casting director and the casting director can then reach out to agents and managers to find the voice actors. They can post that casting notice on a casting site like a Voice 123 or a VO Planet or a Badalgo, or they can have their own roster of voice actors that every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors. That every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors and then send the casting notices out to the appropriate voice actors to collect auditions right.  08:12 - Anne (Host) Before you continue, I'm going to intercept and say all right, let's talk about how often do they need this right? That is something that is the big unknown right. How often are they needing a new campaign? And that is something that I think is the most ambiguous, maybe, to the voice actor, because we don't know we don't work for the company, we don't know how often they need these new ads. So what I don't want people to expect, and I think what a lot of people do expect, is like well, I reached out to them and they don't want me. Well, they don't have a need for you Yet. Yeah, and I don't think it's appropriate to think that any one company needs a voice actor 24-7.  08:48 - Tom (Guest) Unless you're Joseph Riano.  08:50 - Anne (Host) But that's a different genre, right. That's promo, that's a different genre, that's promo and that's actually a network right.  08:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right.  08:55 - Anne (Host) That, yeah, you're required to do these ads because things change all the time. Chanel lipstick how often are they coming up with new colors? How often are they coming up with new colors? There's seasons, right? How often are they coming up with new lipsticks? Right? That is not necessarily a daily. Companies don't come out with new products every single day, so therefore they may not have a need. So please keep that in mind, guys, because I think a lot of people get discouraged when they don't hear back. Marketing is the long haul. It's a marathon, not a sprint.  09:21 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, getting auditions from your agents and managers and getting auditions from online casting sites. Those are short term. There's an audition right now. You audition for it right now Because they've had a need Right. Using direct and indirect marketing strategies is a long-term investment in developing relationships with clients Big distinction. A lot of people argue oh, agents are better than this and this is better than that, and none of that is true.  09:46 All of it's extremely subjective, based on the genres of voiceover that you want to do and the marketing methods and comfort level that you have with technology and interpersonal stuff. Like some people will be like I'll make cold calls all day. I love doing it. And some people are like I'm terrified of talking to people. I will only post stuff on social media and I will only talk about in a very narrow way and all of that is fine. But to Anne's point. Well, first off, we're thinking about them a lot more than they're thinking about us.  10:13 - Anne (Host) Oh my God, yes, amen, amen. That is so very true, because we want to be hired by them.  10:19 - Tom (Guest) Right, of course, and to Anne's point, they don't need any voiceover for a product or service or brand at this moment in time, and when they do, it may not necessarily be you and a lot of the times they don't have any control over the product or service or brand and what the demands there are from the end client or the ad agency or the marketing firm or the campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign. Right, and with a campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Right, and with a campaign, typically they want to have, like in any kind of a brand, consistency right. Typically, if there's a product and you're the voice of that product or that brand, it typically is something that will be recurring for a certain amount of time. It's not like today's ad is going to feature my voice and tomorrow it's going to feature somebody else's voice. They want to work in a little bit of consistency for that brand and that includes the voice. So understand that they're not having a need for a new voice actor every single time they're airing the ad or putting it out there on social media. That may be.  11:19 You are a voice for a campaign which runs for a certain length of time, which is why we base our rates especially when it's broadcast right on where it's being played and for how long Because we are a voice for that particular time, for that particular campaign. Now, if they want to extend that right, they will pay to extend that or they'll find a new voice if they're looking for that.  11:42 - Tom (Guest) Right, we love the rebuys where you narrate something and it's good for a certain period. I got that phone call two weeks ago. I did a social media ad and for a six month term, and they literally called me on the phone. They're like, hey, they want to do it again, bill us, yeah, and I just build them. And they're like, oh, and we have two more spots. That's the wonderful part.  11:59 - Anne (Host) But the thing is is like for that particular brand, right Voice actors. If you're going to reach out to that same company and say, hey, I'm a voice actor, hire me. Well, they've got Tom right For reasons within the campaign. If his voice is working and that's what they want, they're going to continue to have Tom. So don't take it personally, don't beat Tom up.  12:19 - Tom (Guest) Tom is like sorry not sorry, Sorry, not sorry Sorry not sorry, sorry, not sorry.  12:22 - Anne (Host) I think we just have sometimes a very narrow view of what it's like on the other side of the glass and to have that need and that desire to create a campaign with a voice, and so you have to be understanding of the way it works.  12:34 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, another point on that is that late last year a voice actor posted on Facebook an infographic that I want to say it was. An explainer video producer posted an infographic. They tracked the amount of hours that it takes to produce an explainer video, which obviously includes concept writing, storyboard, budget, legal department, music and all of that stuff, and the amount, the percentage that involved the voice actor, was 1.5%. Yeah, 1.5%. So often we as voice actors are an afterthought.  13:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, we're the last part of the journey there.  13:08 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and sometimes I'll just ask around the office, or their niece, who's a musical theater major, and they just give it to them and that's it.  13:15 - Anne (Host) But yes, obviously casting notices are posted everywhere all the time and it's so funny because I mean, when I'm doing oh, it's funny because I'm dabbling a little bit in fashion and when I'm creating videos, I mean my main thing is that I'm talking about the brand or I'm showcasing the brand, but a lot of times the videos don't even require the voice. Unless I'm directly talking about the brand, I can put music behind it. And it's funny because in my process of creating the video right for, let say, the brands that I'm working for the last thing I put in is the voice. It's the last thing I do, unless I'm doing a direct-to-camera like hey guys, this is an amazing product. Then it all happens together, right, and then the video editing happens and my voice is already there talking about it.  13:57 But a lot of times I'm not necessarily, or I'm doing a voiceover after the fact, and so, yeah, we become like the last part of the project, and so that's something to also be aware of. It's not that we're not important, we're very important, but you have to understand where in the chain of events that it happens. That's why people, when they cast, they want to cast typically like quickly, right, they want to find that voice and just put it into the video that's already been done, and then music and sound effects, because, again, like Tom you mentioned, we're typically the last part.  14:31 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and from what I've noticed in my casting notices over the past decade or so is that the turnaround time for casting is usually about 48 hours, and then from the recording of it is probably another 48 hours. Sometimes it's even quicker than that. So usually that means if this project took six weeks or two months or whatever that means at most not. I'm not saying a week is spent on the voiceover, it's just that everything that needs to happen regarding the voiceover is probably a handful of hours within one week, and then that's it.  15:04 So the point is, bosses, is that if you are engaging in direct marketing strategies, like cold calls or emails, and you're doing your follow-up emails and reaching out on social media, like directly in sending the messages and stuff like that you have to manage your expectations. I was reading a study that since 2014, the return on cold calls and emails has dropped by 10% every year for the past 10 years. And guess what? 10% times 10 years equals 100%. So it doesn't mean they're not effective at all anymore. But now the expectation of them actually getting your email or answering your phone call and responding positively is between 1% and 3%. It is a very, very small percentage, which means also this is a numbers game.  15:49 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, but it's not impossible.  15:52 - Tom (Guest) No, it's not impossible. You want to be smart about it.  15:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what I'm always telling people because I have a Boss Blast product and I know you also do a lot of educational courses on direct marketing. It's something that you need to understand. It's definitely a marathon, not a sprint, kind of a game, and the good thing about it is that once you do connect and once you're in front of the eyes of someone who has the power to hire you and award you the gig, typically you want to stay top of mind, and that's when you're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. You're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. That's when they'll call you and say, hey, we want to extend this for another 13 weeks or we want to extend this again. So once you hook them, hopefully you keep them, and that's where the challenge is.  16:36 You know auditions. You know there's a need already. You audition and they cast because they're at that stage in the project where that's what they need. Right, they need that voice. But when you're direct marketing and you're reaching out, they may not have that need right away. They might think about you and say, oh okay, I like that voice. I don't have a need for her right now, but maybe let me put her to the side and let's when another campaign comes up that I think she's good for and I get that all the time when I'm on a few different rosters They'll contact me directly and say, hey look, I think you'd be a perfect voice for this campaign. Can you send me an audition? And typically, boom, that's good because it's a cold lead that turned into a warm lead and that is nice because I didn't have to really do much effort because I'm on his radar.  17:18 So when you're direct marketing, tom, the other important thing to understand is not only how it works right and understand and the expectations. It is how do you know who to contact right? And how do you contact them without being spammed? Because, guess what? We all get spam every single day. I get phone calls still that I don't pick up the phone. I get emails that are scammers, that are just junk email I don't even bother to look at. I see the subject line and I'm like nope, so I'm not going to be spamming. In today's world where it is getting increasingly hard. How do you do it right? That's the question, that's the golden question, right? How do you do it? How do you get their attention?  17:55 - Tom (Guest) Well, I've learned a couple of just some just brief bullet pointy bits of advice is be concise, be brief, be professional, but be you as much as you can If you have a very formal subject line or a very prim and proper paragraph. Hi, my name is this, I do this, I do that, I can do this, and every sentence starts with the word I Delete Immediate turn off.  18:21 - Anne (Host) It's about how you can help the company.  18:23 - Tom (Guest) Yes, it's how you can bring value to their company. It's not about you Solve their pain point. Exactly, solve the pain point. What can you do for them? But don't make it I, I, I Make it about. You need this, you need this. Your problem is this your problem can be solved with my services as a voice actor, but at the same time, be you as much as you can be you, be as personable as you can. Funny goes a long way and showing that you know about them.  18:54 - Anne (Host) Yes, because it becomes like these are two strangers meeting in the night, right? So what makes that meeting more agreeable? Well, if I have done my homework, it's kind of like God the olden days, tom, when I used to go on interviews for like corporate jobs. Right, you wouldn't go into a corporate interview for a job and not know anything about the company that you're applying to.  19:15 Right, I mean that was the biggest no-no was no. You've got to understand what does the company make, what are the products that it makes and what is it that is attracting you to this company? So if you can offer some insight into their company and why it is that you feel it would be a beneficial partnership, then definitely reaching out with how you can solve their pain point and showing that you're interested in them and not just like I, I, I and I'm a great voice actor and listen to my talent. It's not about you at all. It's about how you can help them right to sell their product or to sell their brand.  19:48 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, your job is a problem solver. Yeah, don't treat them like a cash register and your email is a crowbar.  19:54 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that, that visual.  19:57 - Tom (Guest) You know he's kind of like give me the money to say the things have you said that before?  20:00 - Anne (Host) Did you just grab that from there? That was great.  20:02 - Tom (Guest) I've said it in various permutations of that over the years. But yeah, yeah, I've also said we try to treat voice seekers like ATMs. Yeah, because we only see them as these machines that can give us money. Yeah, absolutely. These are people that have their own needs and challenges.  20:17 They are human beings that have their own struggles creative, logistical, financial, cultural struggles. And if voiceover is 1.5% of their thought processes in any given project, 5% of their thought processes in any given project, you want that 1.5% to be maybe the easiest and most entertaining, 1.5% to make everything a little bit easier.  20:38 - Anne (Host) Don't give them homework. That's what I always say. Don't give them homework, Don't make them try to research you. Don't give them homework. Just be there to let them know that you can help them and that you have a genuine interest in their company, in their product, in wanting to serve them and to help them, to make their jobs easier. Really, I think that's the point, and anybody that's worked in the corporate world knows that they want their job to be easier. They're working for someone, typically, and they have a lot on their plate. They don't want to be bogged down by, oh my God, a big, lengthy email that is going on and on and on and self-serving.  21:14 I know that when I get emails and I like to talk a lot. I think that's the problem, Tom. As voice actors, we like to talk right, and sometimes that transcribes right into our emails. I used to write these emails that were like paragraphs, paragraphs. Nobody has time for that and I would love to write paragraphs of an email and I would spend so much time.  21:32 I remember when I broke down what I did in my corporate job. I spent the majority of my time writing customer service emails and they were long emails and the funny thing is, I would get offended if people three quarters of the way down, if I put an important fact and then somebody wrote me back and then asked me a question about that fact, I'd be like how could you not have read that email? I spent so much time on it Because people don't have the capacity right to read a big, long, horribly boring email and also you are encroaching upon their time. I get so many emails a day, Tom, we've talked about this before. I have like a million some odd unread emails in my Gmail on purpose, because I want to see the marketing. I want to see the marketing that people are doing, and you just have to understand that you're taking up a part of their day, and so I think you need to like, deserve that.  22:18 And you need to prove that you're worthy of that 1.5% of their time. And so that means, if they don't want to hear from you again, if you've presented yourself in a way where they don't have a need for you, or maybe you I don't know, maybe you're all self-serving and they're like I don't need this they need to have a way to not get those emails from you ever, ever again. So there are legal ramifications of you reaching out to somebody unsolicited, typically in any direct marketing. That is the next thing that I want to bring up.  22:46 Tom, in any direct marketing you have to have permission to send an email. And if you don't necessarily have direct permission, you have to offer them a way to opt out of the emails that you send to them. And that includes, when you send that cold email, something at the bottom that says if you would like to unsubscribe to these emails, give them a way to opt out of that. And you also must provide and this is just good business measure you have to provide legally an address of your company on your emails. So when you send those emails out, you have to give them a way to opt out of the emails and you have to give them your business address.  23:23 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely, because you don't want the internet to give you the ban. Hammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. Manhammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. So I've heard recently that the era of spray and pray is over, but it's not just for all the marketing value pain points provide value stuff, but it's also because of the internet, as we as a people has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty desperate has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty. Desperate, aggressive, obnoxious, self-aggrandizing emails that we're getting over and over again, because we can't tell what's real and what's fake anymore when the phone rings or when an email comes in or when we see a social media post. So people are cracking down and being like we have no tolerance for this. I would rather send less emails that have more value than more emails that have more value than more emails that have value, and hope for the occasional hit.  24:13 - Anne (Host) And again, if you are sending out mass emails and that's a whole nother thing with direct marketing, not many people have the provision to send out thousands of emails at one time because most, unless you're paying for that service, which I do for the boss blast I pay for that service. I am able to send out lots of emails at a time. It's done through a server which doesn't do it all at once. And also the people that I'm sending it to have already opted in to me, marketing to them, and still, at the very least, I have to put. Here's a way to opt out and here's my business address and they only allow from my domain, the, and they only allow from my domain, the VO Boss domain. So anybody that buys a Boss Blast, you are actually getting a list that has already opted in to be marketed to and they have all the legal rights to opt out if they want.  24:58 Most people don't, because they've opted in for a reason, but it's something that I would say most voice actors can't afford because you typically pay by the contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact, so contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact. So I have a few hundred thousand contacts that I pay for in order to be able to send emails out to that, and that's not something necessarily that every voice actor has the budget to do, which is why I offered the Boss Blast.  25:22 And this isn't all just about the Boss Blast, but it's anytime you're talking about doing direct mail, quality over quantity unless you have the provision to send out quantity, which is something that I pay thousands of dollars for, and I also make sure I got all the legal ramifications for people to opt out if they need to. But you need to do the same thing on a smaller scale, and direct marketing, I feel, is one of the methods of marketing that needs to be implemented so that in combination with indirect marketing. And you've got to do it. Gosh Tom, how much percentage of your time would you say? I would say 80%, if not a little bit more when things are lean.  25:58 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, when things are slow I immediately go to market, absolutely. But when things are busy, I have learned also to keep doing my marketing. So there, aren't as many slow periods.  26:09 So, yes, direct marketing can and should be part of a balanced breakfast. That is, every voice actor. If you can get quality representation audition through your agents and managers, if you understand how to feed the algorithms of online casting sites, use them to keep the flow of auditions coming in. Direct marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful value-driven blog posts, blog entries and social media posts. You should be doing, ideally, some combination of all of these as often as you can to maximize your opportunities to get the voiceover auditions that you desire.  26:47 - Anne (Host) And always be cultivating your next client, even if you're super busy. I think that's the most important thing that I've learned over the many years that I've been in the business here is always be cultivating your next client, because your clients, even if you've had them for years and years and years, they're never guaranteed. And the best in the business will say the same. So good conversation, Tom. I think we could talk about marketing in 500 more episodes.  27:10 But I think this is a great start guys to understand that it is a necessary evil and it's not scary. It's really not scary. You need to embrace the challenge that is marketing and, again, I like to look at everything as a challenge. That's what gives me joy in my business and also one of the reasons why I did create the VL Boss Blast was because I didn't have a ton of time to do the indirect marketing, although I do that a lot too. So everybody needs a balanced breakfast of both indirect and direct marketing. And, tom, thank you again for always being such a golden nugget of wisdom in my podcast.  27:42 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, I love it.  27:44 - Anne (Host) I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can be a boss, a real boss and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next time. Bye.  27:59 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, get ready for an electrifying conversation with a true entertainment icon. In this episode of the VO Boss Podcast, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the legendary Rolonda Watts, an Emmy-winning, talk show host, actress, and award-winning voice actor. Rolonda's career is a masterclass in professional reinvention. From her groundbreaking syndicated talk show, The Rolonda Show, to her powerful voice acting work on Professor Wiseman in Curious George and her on-screen roles in Mind Your Business and Survival of the Thickest, she embodies the art of pivoting with purpose. The hosts discuss how her journey from journalism to entertainment shaped her, why listening is the most important tool for any communicator, and the life philosophies that have guided her to become a true BOSS.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey, bosses, Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey in voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit Anneganguzza.com to find out more. 00:48 Visit anganguza, hey. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'mGanguzzayour host, Anne Ganguza, and I have something amazing for you 00:53 , bosses, today.  00:55 Today's guest is a one-woman entertainmentRolondaempire. She's done it all award-winning journalistRolonda daytime talk show host, actor, stand-up comic, best-selling author and one of the most recognizable voices in voiceover. You may have heard her as Professor Wiseman on Curious GeorgeRolonda in the Proud FamilyRolonda kung Fu Panda and now Invincible Fight Girl. She's also the annoucer and promo voice of the Sherry Show, where Sherry Shepard calls her a daytime talk show legend, which I happen to agree. Rolanda Watts is currently lighting up the screen on Bounce TV's hit comedy Mind your Business which I always get to see all the shorts on the Facebook feed, by the way where she plays Lucille, the sharp, sassy family matriarch that keeps it real with tough love and somehow I feel like that just echoes your character to a T. And she I feel like that just echoes your character to a T, and she's also appearing in the upcoming season of Netflix's Survival ofRolondathe Thickest, and was recently inducted into the prestigious Silver Circle by the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences at the 2024 Emmys, recognizing her lifetime of groundbreaking work in television.  02:04 Bosses, please welcome the incomparable Rolanda Watts, thank you. Thank you, rolanda. I have to tell you, you know I'm a big fan. I mean, I've said this to you before, but, bosses, I am the biggest fan of Rolanda. I actually know Rolanda from watching her on daytime talk TV, and that was a while ago. I want to say that daytime talk shows had just kind of come into like being, and you're one of the first that I watched and I just I just you, your personality, just everything about you was just amazing. It's just magnetic, and so I am so excited to be able to interview you, a talk show host. So I was like, oh man, how am I going to prepare to talk to you? But you are just so gracious and wonderful, and so that kind of gave me a little bit of of hope that I wouldn't completely flub it up today, rolanda.  03:05 - Rolonda (Guest) I don't think you would do that, Anne.  03:08 - Anne (Host) My goodness. So for the bosses, who you know don't really know your story and how you started off, I mean, my gosh, you're a media empire, so I don't even like we could have like five days worth of interviews with you, but it all started as broadcast journalism correct interviews with you, but it all started as broadcast journalism correct?  03:28 - Rolonda (Guest) Yes, Tell us about that. Well, I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, and I, you know, I went to well, it's a long story about how I became an actor, but it all started with being 12 years old and going to Broadway with my family and seeing Guys and Doll and I was just like, oh my God, I love the stage and that's what I Anne do. So I went to Spelman and majored in theater arts and then there weren't a lot of roles when I got out of college. There just wasn't a track for folks who looked like me in the acting world, and so I fell in love with journalism, went to Columbia's Graduate School of Journalism and I was a news reporter and investigative anchor woman and producer for many years for New York WABC, WNBC Inside.  04:16 - Anne (Host) Edition, and that's impressive. And all of a sudden. Well, yeah, I was an investigative journalist. I mean you just said it like it came so easy. But I Anne imagine at the time. I mean you must have had to really work to get yourself in that space.  04:33 - Rolonda (Guest) Well, it was a crazy time because it was the 1980s. There weren't a lot of women in investigative news reporting, not in New York City, and so it was a groundbreaking time for women and and there was so much in the news, especially in New York, it was the big gang wars, the mob wars. You know, gotti hadn't even come into into play yet, so it was murder and mayhem. I was covering, wow and yeah, an inside edition. I was more murder and mayhem.  05:04 - Anne (Host) I remember that.  05:06 - Rolonda (Guest) Yeah. And then a man by the name of Roger King, who in heaven remains the number one selling as human being in television, asked me if I would like to do my very own syndicated talk show. So for four years I did the Rolanda show and then, when that was over let's loop back to the 12 year old who wore the subway token around her neck as a good luck charm. I said I'm not going to be on a porch when I'm 80 years old, going I could have, would have, should have. I am going to take my chances and go for my lifelong dream and make that 12 year old inside of me happy.  05:41 And I took off and went to Hollywood and that's where I became an actor and a writer and a producer and had my own production company and stumbled into voice acting and all of these things were part of what so many people call me the reinventionist. But I have had to reinvent my life for so many reasons and so many times. But I believe that isRolondamany different things that I've done and it's all around one thing and that's what we do as voice actors Good storytelling.  06:13 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And it's so interesting because before I had really come into like knowing you again, after you know, watching your talk show, and then knowing you as in voiceover yeah, the Anne and promo voice of the Sherry show, how interesting. Like you started to talk show, you're like a legend and talk show in my, in my brain. I'm like Rolanda, that's so awesome, like you. And now you kind of came full circle back to it a little bit Right, being the Anne and the promo voice.  06:46 And I was watching a clip of you the other day and Sherry was saying something. She was going on. She was gushing about you, which I get that. She was gushing about you and it was so interesting. She was giving you this credit about talking about your talk show and how wonderful you were and you turned it right. The conversation went right back to her about how wonderful she was and I was just blown away by how gracious that was and I just thought, well, no wonder. Well, no wonder you made such a great talk show host, such a great communicator, such a great actor and stand-up comedian and everything, because you just have this wonderful way of connecting with people.  07:29 - Rolonda (Guest) Well, you're awfully sweet, Anne. I'm going to receive all of that, but I thank you for that. You know it's, it's it. I, you know I was. I get blown away too, because Sherry does not hold back about what. What do the folks say? Giving me my flowers? And it's nice to receive them when you can smell them. You know, you know, know, it's really interesting because we did pave the way for sherry and and kelly and and drew and tamron all of them and I also know the hard work that those ladies are doing.  08:04 This job called talk is not easy. The politics that go on, the struggles day to day, the whole idea that the show is bigger than you as a human. It's very trying and you're out there by yourself. So I of course give her her flowers back because you can hand over the baton, but if the person can't run with it it really doesn't count. So to be able to see that continuum is a beautiful, beautiful thing.  08:29 And you know what's really funny is that Sherry's executive producer, who you see on the show all the time, John Murray. John was a college student when he first came to see my show and that's when he got the TV bug. He was bitten by the TV bug and so I would invite him back. In fact, one time I put him on the show so he could come and see how the producers worked and the behind the scenes working Skip to him becoming the executive producer of the Sherry show, and he said there's no other voice that we would have introduced, Sherry, and pass on the legacy than you. So it's really good. I mean, you got to be nice to kids, because they're coming up and they'll be your boss.  09:10 - Anne (Host) Right. Isn't that the truth?  09:12 - Rolonda (Guest) It is, it's like full circle.  09:13 - Anne (Host) You've, really you've done so much and you are.  09:15 I feel as though you've got. I feel like, look, I know how busy I am and I do a lot of stuff, but I feel like you, you're, you're doing it all. I mean you're, you're in that sitcom and I see, I'm thankful. I see the clips that you're posting on Facebook and it's so funny how the Rolanda that I know right, that I had a conversation with at VO Atlanta, I mean I feel like it is just so true to your character. Tell us a little bit about that role. I feel like you're just having the best time doing it.  09:44 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh my God, Lucille Williams, or Lucille is just one of the most wonderful characters. I mean, she's just great. And this coming weekend she's going to break off into her cougarlicious life, I know, oh wow.  10:05 She and her besties. They call themselves the silver sneakers. The nieces have convinced them that they need to give up the old guys, who just need a nurse and a purse, and go and get some of the young guys to go get some cool you know, be cougars and so we see how that works. But it's very, you know, it's fun to play her. She's sassy, she's the matriarch of the family, but at the same time we're writing storylines that give her a full bodied woman-ness. At this certain age, absolutely, absolutely.  10:42 - Anne (Host) I love that.  10:43 - Rolonda (Guest) But Mind your Business is a wonderful sitcom. It's one of those wonderful family sitcoms. It's produced by Bentley Evans, who did Jamie Foxx and Martin, so you're going to get that kind of zany funniness, but it's. But my character is lost her business almost during covid and calls on her family to come in and help save the business. And so she moves in with the family to save some money and all hell breaks loose. They need more of a referee than they do business partners. Now.  11:14 - Anne (Host) I love it. Now, if I'm correct, you're on season two, is that correct?  11:20 - Rolonda (Guest) We're on season two. That's right.  11:22 - Anne (Host) That's right Will there be more seasons. We certainly hope so. I hope so too.  11:25 - Rolonda (Guest) Listen, we're depending on you to watch and binge and love it. We're on Bounce TV or the Brown Sugar app and you Love it.  11:32 - Anne (Host) We're on Bounce TV or the Brown Sugar app and you can go look up where you can watch it. Yeah, I love that. Well, ok, so All right, we have to. Now we have to come to the voiceover aspect of things. So you actually have been doing voiceover since you came to LA, right?  11:46 - Rolonda (Guest) And well, you know what's so crazy, Anne, is that I was doing voiceover work, promos and Anne and voiceovers, and I didn't even know I was a voice actor, because I was doing all of that stuff for my show. I mean, had I known I was a voice actor at that time, I would have had a very different contract, trust me. But but it let meRolonda you know. But, just being a news reporter for so many years in New York City and on Inside Edition across the nation, people just knew my voice. And when, when I moved to LA and gave up the whole news and talk business to come out here and be an actor and a producer, nine months into the game the writers went on strike and instead of hosting an internationally syndicated talk show, I was on the picket line serving pizza to the striking writers.  12:39 And I was like what am I going to do? And I had to eat, I had to pay my rent, I mean what, what? And it was like I'm not going back to news, so what am I going to do? And I remembered that I used to call 411 back when you used to get information and the operator even knew my voice. They would go is this Rolanda. And so I said well this, I know I've got a voice, I'll go do voice acting. And I could not catch a cold because I didn't understand what the business was about. I had a voice and I had a microphone, but I had no idea what voice acting was about. I had a voice and I had a microphone, but I had no idea what voice acting was about.  13:14 So I went over to Calumson and Calumson over there in Burbank and I took a class and that thing saved my life because those that was the one of the that was the well, it was one of the longest strikes in Hollywood nine months and by that time I had created a whole new career and the voice actors weren't on strike. So I said this is a great backup for my physical acting and there are times and when my voice works more than my physical acting and now that I'm becoming a woman of a certain age those roles aren't coming in as quickly. But, honey, I can play a hot 30 year old.  13:53 - Anne (Host) Well, my voice. I love that you're using the woman of a certain age because, as a woman of a certain age, as well, what are you?  14:02 - Rolonda (Guest) going to do.  14:04 - Anne (Host) Exactly. I mean, I say use it Right, I mean absolutely. And so let's talk just for a brief moment about what. So acting and voice acting, same, different, what? What would you say are the key differences? Because you said, oh, I had to go to Kalmanson and Kalmanson, right.  14:22 - Rolonda (Guest) So there are some things, yeah, oh, absolutely.  14:25 - Anne (Host) Bosses need to know that are different and I absolutely always tell people yes, you should, you should, you know, take acting classes. But also there are some, some differences.  14:35 - Rolonda (Guest) Yeah, I find that there there's. It's just a different set of muscles, I think that's what you would say. One is just strictly your imagination and I think, well, for me, one helps the other. Well, for instance, the character I play we talked about Lucille, lucille talks like this she's got a little quiver in her voice and she just real high pitch, like that. So some of those tricks that we learn in terms of texture and pitch and pacing and all of that that we do as we imagine our characters, I do the same thing when I see the character on the page and I say how does that voice, what? What is it about her voice that's going to make her stand out. And they know that's Lucille, that's part of her, because she doesn't have cause. That character doesn't have this voice, not my voice. So I think that that that helps me find my characters In fact.  15:29 In fact I did a play and I had I did three plays at one time. Craziest thing in the world never been done Did three plays at one time, playing 10 different characters, from a nine-year-old girl to a 76-year-old grandmother, and all of those are different voices. You know, one was a journalist, one was a, you know, grandmother one, a, a little girl who grew up in mississippi. I mean, those are just such different voices and I also have bring my physical things, like when I'm thinking of a character in my voice, acting. I think what would they wear?  16:04 Shakespeare said, the clothes make the man and the woman too. Are they wearing a cape that they sold over there, you know? Are they carrying a sword? Does she have really tight bobs in her hair? I mean, does she have a mustache? So there are all kinds of things that I think. If I'm in my prop room or my wardrobe room and it's just my imagination, what can I do to help bring those things to light? Just the way, when they put the wig on and the clothes and the heels on for stage or screen, you could become that character. You do the same in your imagination, yeah.  16:37 - Anne (Host) I love that, I love that parallel.  16:40 That makes so much sense, actually, and it's interesting. So, for voice actors, who have not necessarily acted, what sort of tips would you have to for them to be better actors? Let's say, because it's funny, I do a lot of the stuff that people don't think you need to act for in terms of voiceover, like corporate narration or e-learning, and they think that you don't need to act. But in reality you're always a character, and so when I'll say to my students, envision that scene, it's just to them they're like what, why? Why do I need to do that? Why don't I just read the words? You know why?  17:20 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I hear it. Yeah, exactly, you know why?  17:22 - Rolonda (Guest) Because we're not looking for readers, we're looking for actors, and I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that folks make who don't become a VO boss is because they don't understand what this industry is about. It's really not even about your voice. It's not about I mean, everybody has a beautiful, unique voice, because there are no two voices alike but it's the acting that's going to make you so different. It's those subliminal things under those lines. Sometimes you have a whole commercial that tells a whole life story in four lines and they, they fought over those lines. Attorneys, 50 people made all those lines. So they mean something. What is the story we're telling here? Right, and who am I in this story and who am I talking to? You know all of those questions. Where am I? Why am I even this story and who am I talking to? You know all of those questions. Where am I? Why am I even talking about this toilet paper? You know, and I'm a bear.  18:21 Why am I. Even I'm a mama bear. I mean why? You know why am I, and I'm not going to act like a bear, but I'm going to act like a mom who's concerned about her kids not wiping themselves. And that's just real stuff. So how do you tap into the authenticity? How do you make it human? Because what our job is is to connect with another human being. That's something that folks down there on Madison Avenue, the big advertisers, can't do in their suits, so they depend on us as actors, to be human, to be just plain old ourselves and human. No bravado, as we're hearing so much in our copy and in our instruction and directions as actors. Authenticity, throw it away, just give it to me. No salesy, no Anne, and I got to tell you that's the hardest thing in the world to do. Even for us seasoned actors, it's sometimes hard to shake off the the, the formality and just get real with it. You know and feel comfortable and confident with that.  19:21 - Anne (Host) Can I ask you to repeat that, can you that you said, you said what you said. It was hard, it's hard, it is hard, right. It is so hard Like I love it because you create that scene Right. It is so hard, like I love it because you create that scene Right In which those words make sense, right.  19:36 And tell a story and sometimes those words are really we don't know. We don't know that, Like I, have some people that are almost indignant that they don't have a storyboard or they don't. They don't understand the words. So therefore, if they don't, they're just kind of well, let's just say them then.  19:58 - Rolonda (Guest) Right In a melody that I think they want to hear. Rolonda, that's great, then they'll have a melody that they just heard, but they won't have the commercial.  20:03 - Anne (Host) I love it, so yes, so you said it's hard, rolanda says it's hard, it is.  20:09 - Rolonda (Guest) I go on record as saying the hardest thing I've ever had to do whether it was talk, tv or vocal or physical acting is being myself. Now in life, I have no problem beingRolondaauthentically Rolanda. What you see is Rolonda you get. But it's something that happens when we pick up that script and that microphone is in front of us and, all of a sudden, things start changing and happening. We're just not ourselves. I don't sound like myself. I don't like toRolondahear my voice. It takes, it's really acting. When you hear people who sound like how did they get that job? They don't even sound like a voice actor. It's because they are turning themselves Rolonda a virtual pretzel justRolondato sound like that, to sound so normal.  20:58 I remember when I first started doing my talk show um, the, the demand of being a, an actor I mean not an actor, but a talk show host with a talk show called rolanda was that you had to be Rolanda. You couldn't be the news reporter anymore. That was crucial to the success, and so it was very hard to even do it then, and I can remember my bosses and my partners calling going get that news reporter out of there, bring back Rolanda. And I said but I've got this crazy laugh and a raspy voice and I, you know, I'm a Southern accent and that's everything that makes my brand. I mean, it's crazy, but that's Rolanda. When you say Rolanda, that's what you hear. So whatever that is about you, whatever that quirky, crazy thing that you think is your fault, that's going to be your greatest asset. You know, when I was a little kid, they called me froggy and I always played all the guys in all my all girls school plays and I thought that was a real fault of mine. And now I can play women, men, little boys, pirates, anything in this industry of voice acting, and there's no limitation. The only limitation is your imagination. It's not about the equipment, it's not even about your voice. It's about your brilliant imagination and what you bring to that character, not even the microphone, what you bring to that character that nobody else thought about. That made that animator go. Oh, I can't wait to draw this character, um, and to make the casting director's job easy. They want you to win, they want you to get this job, so give it to them, show them your special sauce.  22:43 But I think it takes real practice, practice, practice. Like carnegie hall, they say. You just don't walk up into carnegie hall and start playing the violin. No, you got to learn how the instrument works. You got to learn how to maintain it, take care of it, how to make love to that instrument so it delivers that God given art and craft that you've put into it. You've got to do the work. And a lot of people think, well, I can just go pick this up and read. And the sad thing is, and they don't take classes and they have no idea what they're doing wrong. The worst thing that can happen is you go years and years and years building on the wrong stuff because you never took the time to learn the right stuff. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah, that's so.  23:29 - Anne (Host) I'm.  23:29 - Rolonda (Guest) I'm real big on training and classes so that you get the education and the acting experience and you understand how to break down scripts, you understand the vocabulary of this industry and how to network and and and use your resources that are right there at your fingertips.  23:46 - Anne (Host) Well, I think I think you're probably very much a VO Boss on using those resources and networking throughout your whole career. That's absolutely something that I feel that you've you've done so successfully. What would you say is probably the most important thing tip that you could give to to ensure success in this industry? Because it's a evolving industry and, yes, being the the queen of reinvention, right, you've had to reinvent yourself, and reinvent yourself not only in, you know, voiceover, but in, like all the media and how it's evolved over the years. So what would be your, your best tip to ensure success? Don't quit there. You go.  24:26 - Rolonda (Guest) I like that. The only people who don't succeed in voice acting are people who quit. I like that. You know, even the greatest ones. And you know, when we're at the VO Atlanta conference and we're with the greats I mean we're with Bob, who's Porky the pig, and we're with Joe, who's every network's Anne and when you hear these, these, these major vo stars and pros say, man, I do 50 to 100 auditions and may not nab the job a lot of us went whoa.  24:59 - Anne (Host) thank god, it's just not us, because yeah, I mean I can show you a stack in my head. I'm like oh, thank god, because, yeah, I, I just did a ton, I know, yeah, and look, listen I hear some auditions from this month okay yeah, am, I, am, I am I booking every one of them?  25:16 - Rolonda (Guest) no, but that's but. But you have to change your mindset. Every time I show up that microphone and I'm doing an audition, I'm not going up there. Well, I'm not going to get the job anyway. If you've got a bad attitude like that, it's time for you to jump into a classroom and just realign yourself, because this is a long game. And let me tell you what's going to happen when you get great you nab that job, you go and do that commercial. One hour it's gone and you're right back to auditioning again. So don't put all of your emphasis on just the job, but the but, the practice, the maintenance of it. Uh, going to conferences like the VO Atlanta conference, vo Dallas conference, sosa look up these places. That's a good place to hobnob. This is a very solo business. You're a solopreneur, you're by yourself, you, your microphone, your computer and your imagination. That's it. So get out and join memberships. Like Anne. You can come and take my class, the voice acting masterclass with Rolanda. In fact, I'm going to offer your listeners a very special deal if they're interested.  26:29 But that's another way that we build community and you learn what's the cutting edge. Right now we're dealing with AI. What does that mean? Staying on the cutting edge of things that are going to affect your career and really take it as a business. This is not just a hobby. Understand how your taxes work, understand the legalities and understand the questions to ask when you're signing a contract. Now just don't run out there all willy-nilly and not ask the right questions or your voice will be used forever and you not get paid. You know the video game people just had a strike and got some. Where are we moving forward in the business?  27:10 Be able to talk intelligently about the business. So when you're out there meeting people, they know, oh okay, this is somebody really serious. This isn't just somebody who just got a microphone on amazon and call themselves a voice actor, because there's a lot of that. But I say that um, really, just don't quit and understand that every time you show up in front of that microphone, it's another opportunity to show you a special sauce. And if the casting director doesn't get you into this particular job and that's not their decision, it's the producer's or whoever the client is. If you don't make it then, then at least they've heard you. I get a lot of times where they're. Rolonda same client will keep calling me back and I know I've impressed them in those other auditions I've done, so I know they're looking for something for me, so I just keep showing up, doing the best that I possibly can and finding ways to make it different. Because they've heard the same audition 50 million times, sometimes 500 times.  28:12 So what can you do to make it a little different and still stay within the parameters? So there's Ganguzza kinds of tricks and strategies and all kinds of things that you can do to stand Ganguzza and also how you market yourself like anything else. This is a brand Just because Rolonda have a microphone. Anything else this is a brand. Just because you have a microphone doesn't mean you have a brand. So reallyRolonda you know, that's one of the things I tell my students all the time. Once you get the breaking down the script and understand how the microphone and the vocab let's, let's talk about marketing, social marketing. How do we brand ourselves? How can you be one name like Rolanda and people immediately know what that means, and so that's really knowing your stuff and knowing your own voice too, that's so interesting because for a while, when I first started, I had different names.  29:00 - Anne (Host) I mean I, of course I started VO Peeps, I have VO Boss, and then I have Anne Ganguza brand and I'm like I really just need to wrap it all up into the Anne Ganguza brand. So finally, people say I need an Anne Ganguza, like I need a Rolanda. I need an Anne Ganguza, and so I love that that you have that brand and you build on that brand. But, rolanda, let me ask you a question, because I saw the stack of auditions. Do you I mean still, do you get, still I say still do you get an imposter syndrome?  29:31 - Rolonda (Guest) I think I'm pretty much. I'm pretty much at this time in my life. I know who I am. You know I'm not trying to. I've done enough and achieved enough and have enough confidence in myself. I think you know what I think this is. The other thing about this industry is confidence, because you can hear I can hear through a microphone. If you're not confident and you don't even believe yourself, if you see it, I'm going to see it. If you believe it, I'm going to believe it. And that's half the battle, I mean, and that's also part of the practice of this art and this craft, is learning how to still your nerves. Breathing is so much a part, warming up is so much a part of it and it's a full body job. This is an inside job because your beautiful vocal cords are right here in this body encases it. So you got to work out, you got to stretch. You know I love this. Old morgan freeman used to say that the secret to his great voice was a good, deep yawn.  30:29 Absolutely, you know because it just loosens up everything and these 41 muscles up here need to be worked out. A lot of people just jump right up, start reading, don't even warm up their mouths.  30:40 - Anne (Host) As evidenced by your. I think it was yesterday when I saw you on Facebook and you were like all right, I'm going back to the gym.  30:48 - Rolonda (Guest) I know. I messed up.  30:50 - Anne (Host) That's it. I'm going back.  30:54 - Rolonda (Guest) I'm a hot mess but.  30:56 - Anne (Host) I think that warming up I mean it helps, it absolutely does. Just a physical walk, you know, if you go to the gym, a physical warmup does absolutely help. Now, we did talk, we touched upon the confidence issue. We did talk, we touched upon the confidence issue, and one thing that I'm really excited about is that in let's see, is it in September, on the 17th, we are going to have you doing a guest directorship for the VO bosses on improv to improve your confidence and connection. So we will be talking about how bosses can remain confident or stay confident or get confident in the booth, and I love that.  31:35 You said that we can hear. We can hear that confidence and it's really interesting because even if you're telling a story and it may not be the story that ends up being on the video or the commercial right or the commercial right If we're auditioning and we're telling a story and we're convinced of it and we are confident in it, then the people listening, the casting directors, the people that will cast us, will believe it as well, and I think that's one of the telltale signs that they say, ah, shortlist, or that's what's gonna get you the gig.  32:05 - Rolonda (Guest) I think confidence and that's really believing in yourself and being able to take chances and risks. Because you know, think about it. The casting director is hearing 500 people say the same three lines. What are you going to bring to that story that's going to make a difference? I'll give you an example.  32:23 I did an at t commercial and it was about it. It was a very little short commercial and it was about a young girl who sees her mother, who has gone out for girls night at a salsa club, and she says mom, is this you on social media? And the mother goes oh, yes, honey, we were out with Raul last night and we were just dancing and then I something happened. And I said and I just to world. That was not even a line in the script, but I just had this imagination, cuz I used to go out salsa with my girlfriends in California and, honey, when Eduardo would ask us to dance, we would to world. And that just brought that into that like an aunt Lucille, and that's what got me the gig. And it was, and it was just that little button that we say, you know, because they've heard 500 times that people say the same thing yes, I went salsaing with my girlfriend, but nobody twirled but me, nobody's.  33:26 - Anne (Host) nobody else is twirling except for Rolanda. Nobody else is.  33:29 - Rolonda (Guest) honey, that's how much fun I had, which lets you know what that video must have looked like, that the girl saw.  33:36 Absolutely, absolutely, and listen and the fact that these old ladies were even on social media, lets, you know, those boys were young. They taught him how to tick and tock and twirl, you know. So I'm having a whole imaginative thing about going out with my girlfriends and then my girlfriend, my daughter, catching me. Oh please, child, we had a good time. You know, we don't care about what people think at this age. So bringing all of those things, even my own wisdom at this age, like I don't care, honey, I'm twirling with Eduardo because the guys my age don't twirl, so I'm bringing all of that fun into it, you know.  34:11 Another example was when I did judge Joe Brown. You know I was the Anne for that show and when I was doing the audition we had to, you know, was a promo, so I would have to read the line and then listen to the sound bite and then read the line in between. And listen to the sound bite, read, read the line. And I was so big. Judge Joe was such a crazy, freaking judge show. I would say, coming up today on Judge Joe, I'm going to slit your tire and I'm going to beat Shaniqua Mary can't stand, john and then I'm going to cut your other tire and then I would be.  34:46 And then one time I just went, whoa, the next Judge, joe. Honey, they fell on the floor. I was so busy listening that I was reacting like an at home person and I was like, ooh, on the next Joe. I was so irreverent that they created a little animation called lady justice and it was a little bug and I made up this whole story that lady justice was in love with joe just like the daytime audience was gone. Joe, tell them, joe, that's judge, joe, you know because I know the daytime audience. Yeah, so that's the other question we asked who are you talking to?  35:30 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) absolutely, this wasn't the inside edition audience. This. Don't be afraid to take that risk.  35:53 - Rolonda (Guest) You can do a straight one on the next Judge. Joe and Shanique was going to go, but honey, one time let it rip and show them that you can have fun. Fun is the main key. If it's not fun, don't do it.  36:05 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I agree, I think if you can make, if you can make someone laugh, if you can, if you can, if you can bring a smile to that casting director, that person listening to you, oh my goodness. And speaking of because normally I try to make this, you know, a 30 minute podcast, but I do want to touch upon. I do want to touch upon the fact that you are a stand up comedian as well, and we had quite a conversation at VO Atlanta on that, and so I feel like that's just all embedded in your personality and I think you were always a funny person, like from maybe a young girl. But talk to us about being at stand up comedy is tough.  36:41 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, it's really tough.  36:42 - Anne (Host) But you know something that's a rough audience.  36:45 - Rolonda (Guest) Know your audience. Who are you talking to? That's true. And you know something Lunell taught me that she said know your audience, be able to switch on a dime, whatever. But I'm going to tell you just, VO bosses, that comedy helps immensely. It helps your timing, you know. So much of comedy comes in threes. So when you're doing animation or even some fun commercials, what's that third line where the funny ABC?  37:10 - Anne (Host) read right Where's that?  37:11 - Rolonda (Guest) Where's that? Third line where the funny? Or they want an ABC. Read Right, where's that? Where's that? Where's the funny? And that also gives you the confidence and the imagination and and I tell you funny, joan Rivers told Sherri Shepherd funny girls always work, funny women, funny girls always work, funny women, funny women always work. So adding a little humor to something I think makes you stand out. But I love the craft of comedy. I'm uh got uh some comedy shows here in New York at the comedy village comedy in Harlem, and then I'm going to go out to flappers in LA this winter December for the holidays and I'm opening for Lunell and that's really exciting so yeah, I'm getting my comedy on Awesome.  37:58 - Anne (Host) Look out for me on Netflix one day. I do not doubt it. Well, rolanda, it has been such a pleasure. I wish I could talk to you for another. Well, another five episodes.  38:07 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute Speaking of Netflix. I got to do this and we're talking about Michelle Boutot's show survival of the thickest.  38:15 - Anne (Host) I'm on that one as well on Netflix. Awesome. Oh, and before and before we actually go, talk to us a little bit about September 17th improv to improve your confidence. A little bit about what we're going to, we're going to be diving into in that class.  38:30 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, I can't wait to that class because improv is such a great way to gain your confidence, to loosen up and to have a whole bunch of fun. The beautiful thing about improv is there are certain rules that we go by, but it's just fun and it's going to help you tap into your authenticity. One good example we improv every day in life. You talk to your lover very different than you do to your boss, and don't let your best girlfriend call you in the middle of the day, and then, when your mother calls, listen to all the different voices that we have, and that's a lot of improv too. Improv also helps you listen and much of acting is about listening and I think you will surprise yourself, and part of the improv to improve your confidence is finding your own voice and discovering things through this exercise about your own experiences and about your being able to to react on a dime and have fun and laugh about it. Then when you you get those scripts, you can improv in your head.  39:32 I always do a little role play before I start, something Like if I have to play an old grandma, then I talk like an old grandma. Okay, I spin and rush them out. Our teeth don't fit too well. You got a little pain in the rats every once in a while. So you keep building these wonderful things that help you. Listen, you may not get that job, but you know you're going to doggone. Put in the effort because you've done the work. You know you. You will be so surprised, all the places that your voice will take you. And improv too. I mean there are times you're going to meet strangers, a new boss, and going to have to improv too. I mean there are times you're going to meet strangers, a new boss and going to have to improv too.  40:13 So improv is going to be a fun exercise for us. We're going to then take scripts, break down those scripts and do some acting. I'm going to teach you about Uta Hagen's nine questions. We're going to talk a little bit, a bit about Sandy Meisner's techniques, and these are just little things that you can put in your hip pocket that will help you. When you go out into the world and you're in that booth by yourself and you look to the right and the left and there's nobody there but padded walls, what are you going to do? You're not going to freak out, because we're going to learn about warmups and what we do with all this body when we're nervous and behind a microphone, because I can hear nervousness, I can hear it. So let's uh, let's work on that rolanda, did you hear my nerves?  40:57 - Anne (Host) did you hear my nerves when I was interviewing you are so not nervous listen, you need to make it easy.  41:05 - Rolonda (Guest) You've got the ganguza method, that's it there you my own method. I want to be gangouza'd. I love it.  41:12 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I love it oh my gosh.  41:14 - Anne (Host) Thank you so so much. It has been such a pleasure talking to you today.  41:19 - Rolonda (Guest) You know how much fun we have. We get together and start talking and the sun can come up.  41:23 - Anne (Host) So true, so true.  41:23 - Rolonda (Guest) Thank you, thank you so much.  41:25 - Anne (Host) I so true, thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so excited for you, for our class in September. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses, like Rolanda and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom.  41:42 - Rolonda (Guest) I just wanted to add this that if any of your listeners wanted to check out my voice acting masterclass voice acting masterclass I'm going to offer 50% off if they use the code VO Boss 50.  42:01 - Anne (Host) Oh, I love it. Vo Boss 50.  42:01 - Rolonda (Guest) I'll put that on the show notes, guys. Thank you so much, Just for your listeners. 50% off. Vo Boss listeners go to Rolandacom.  42:08 - Anne (Host) Awesome Thanks. Bye bosses. Thank you, Rolandacom. Awesome Thanks, Bye bosses. Thank you, Rolanda. Bye.  42:13 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.