Finding Purpose and Resilience

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by premier coach Dave Walsh for a deep conversation on navigating personal and professional challenges in chaotic times. They assert that the solution to anxiety and stress is to stop focusing on external chaos and instead, live and work from a place of internal purpose and core values. This episode offers powerful insight into why purpose-driven voice acting is the only way to achieve authentic connection and career longevity.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by multi-award-winning global voice actor Toby Ricketts to explore the mindset and techniques required for world-class, remote performance. Toby, who works across British, Australian, New Zealand, and American markets from his remote New Zealand studio, emphasizes that the true superpower for acting for global voice actors lies in intuition, emotional connection, and deliberately making unexpected choices to capture a listener's attention.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble dive into the uncomfortable reality of voice actor negotiation and handling lowball offers. This episode provides essential strategies for maintaining grace, protecting your worth, and ensuring you don't burn bridges when you have to say no. The hosts stress that money is the language of business, and understanding negotiation as a collaborative process is key to long-term success.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, dive into the non-negotiable reality of voiceover demo production. The bosses address why many voice actors—especially those starting out—try to cut corners on their demos, despite the demo being the primary portfolio piece used to land agents and get work. This episode provides essential, current advice on what makes a demo effective, what red flags to avoid, and how to manage the realistic expectations of investing in a long-term voice acting career. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to find your life purpose and live a happier, more fulfilling life? My coaching services can help you discover your true passions and align them with your goals. Let's start that journey today. Visit anneganguzza.com for more information.  00:31 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:45 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the lovely Miss Lala Pita. Hey, we're back, and better than ever. Annie, I'm so glad to be back with you. We are back. Ah Lala, it's been a week, oh my gosh, it's been a week.  01:06 It's been kind of a crazy year so far, hasn't it? It has, I mean, it's just been a little chaotic. I've dealt with a lot of students recently who come to me that want coaching, but before they want to get coaching, they want me to listen to their demos, and so I'll have a quick listen. I mean, I do an actual, I have an actual like process where, if you want half an hour of my time, I'll actually evaluate your demo spot by spot and give you tips. And I like the fact that I offer it as a service because I don't want people to think I'm just here to sell them demos.  01:42 Yeah, of course, but I listen to a lot of demos that are self-produced and demos that have no production under them, and then demos that have a lot of production under them. And you know, I know it's a topic that you know we tend to talk about quite a bit, all about demos. But demos are just so darn important because it really is the product by which you get hired a lot of times. I mean, in addition to auditions, of course, you know, because the client always wants to hear you know your voice with their brand, but really to get your foot in the door. In a lot of places, that demo that showcases what your voice sounds like in the genre in which you want to work is so important. And it's interesting how many times I'll talk to a student who wants to kind of cut the corners on that and they don't have the money. And yet the demos that I'm hearing are not doing them any favors and not getting them any work. Right.  02:39 - Lau (Host) And there's so many tips you and I could like give about the do's and don'ts of demos, but I think it changed, like what's trending now and the faux pas that are happening are happening, that are a little bit newer these days and it's good to talk about and especially.  02:55 - Anne (Host) I like your angle from—I have my angle from the non-broadcast side and I want to hear your angle from the broadcast side. How much are demos being used to cast people? How much do the demos count when you're listening to that in comparison to the auditions? Talk to me about the casting process and how often are demos being used for that? That's a great question. That's a great question.  03:20 - Lau (Host) You know, the anecdote that I come up with is, or the analogy I come up with is, reminds me of college. College was always a necessity for people who are going into white collar careers. Ok, nowadays it's a little bit different.  03:36 - Anne (Host) Do you?  03:37 - Lau (Host) need a college degree to go into many careers. Maybe not, probably not, but when you earn a college degree, oftentimes it says to an employer that you've gone to the highest level of due diligence in your education and that, to me, oftentimes, is what demos represent. Sometimes you literally don't need demos, like literally, we won't be submitting your demo to a client On the most literal basis, I will not be sending your client 98% of the time to our clients, but it shows us that you are a working, professional, high-level industry talent. So there's a screening.  04:13 - Anne (Host) And that you take your career seriously. I think you take your investment seriously.  04:17 - Lau (Host) There's a screening to that it's a portfolio piece, sure. So I would say, yes, you do need it, but no, you do not need it for every single individual job that comes through, because they're going to be demo reads on the scripts.  04:30 - Anne (Host) Now I'm going to counter that, because you are speaking from the broadcast sense of the word. Typically, because you cast a lot for commercials and broadcast style jobs. For non-broadcast, which is a lot of the industry as well, demos can sit on your website and be available 24-7. When you don't have time to audition, and that is the biggest point that I'd like to make is that if you do not have an audition, they sit on your website as a portfolio, as a demonstration of what it is that your voice sounds like, and it can be a way to get your foot in the door.  05:04 If somebody hears that demo and then they're like, oh, I like that voice, and then maybe they want you to audition or it just it allows people to kind of sample the product, sample the product before they decide if they want to hire you, and I think that it's a very valuable piece to have on a website. So if you're a talent that's going to do not I mean I don't know any talent that just does broadcast I mean maybe some it's a very tiny few that just do broadcast, but that doesn't do non-broadcast as well. So I feel like that demo as a portfolio. I remember when you used to go on job interviews and you had to have things in your portfolio.  05:44 I mean, I did when I went on job interviews.  05:46 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I had a portfolio. I did too, yes.  05:48 - Anne (Host) And this is really your portfolio and I think just like— Totally agree as anything right. Presentation is everything I'm all about. Presentation, yeah, Do you know what I mean? I do? Presentation in marketing, presentation in the way you dress, presentation where you present yourself to people. I think presentation for your product is important and that is your demo.  06:11 - Lau (Host) And thank you for qualifying that, because I was speaking from a commercial mindset and it is great to have it on your website. You really should have those on your website because you're going to get private clients, you're going to get audiobook clients, you're going to get all sorts of potential clients that need to hear samples of your work. In my world, every day I will ask for submissions, commercial demo submissions for the agency but how much we're actually using them in-house once we've accepted you into the agency?  06:43 - Anne (Host) is getting minimal. But you need one to get into the agency. Is that correct? For the most part, yeah, you do.  06:49 - Lau (Host) You do because otherwise we would just have you do random reads which we want to hear produced reads. So it makes sense to absolutely have that commercial demo. But be careful, like and we'll talk about that some of the tips about like what is in that that is working on your behalf and what is working against you.  07:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah.  07:09 Right, I mean, there, you know I'm going to say, first of all, anything that is not produced right. First of all, I mean we can talk the DIY. I mean the DIY is not typically produced because, again, you need, like, if you're going to put music under it, sound effects, you need a license for that to be, you know, to legally. You know, put something on your website and I feel like, if it's not produced, then it kind of tells people that you're just there in your home studio with a mic and you didn't want to put any sound effects or music under it, and so therefore, it's kind of like a half-finished product to me. Yes, and yes, it showcases your voice, but it also showcases that maybe you could be a hobbyist or that you are not making the investment to create a produced sample, which I think is important because, again, you know, it's everything. I mean the client needs to hear what your voice will sound like in a fully produced spot, I believe that I agree, and you know what I do.  08:06 - Lau (Host) When we're looking at bringing new talent, I typically make a habit of saying who produced your demo?  08:11 Now, a lot of agents won't ask that, but I do because I know the producers and I know who's who. So I'll ask them who produced your demo? That'll tell me one thing and then, well, they certainly have to send me a commercial demo. I find one of the biggest problems out there is they're sending me the wrong demo. They're sending me, say, you know, an animation demo, character demo, which I love because we're doing more animation jobs, but the bread and butter is still the commercial for most of us. And so you have to really target, like who are you sending your portfolio to and who are their clients, what kind of work do they represent? And send them the right demo, send them the most appropriate demo. Don't assume oh, I have four other demos, is that good enough?  08:52 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, I mean like a corporate demo.  08:55 You're like you need a commercial demo first and foremost because that's where you as an agent make your money right In the broadcast, but non-broadcast but it's not to say that your agent won't hire you for a corporate job.  09:11 It's nice to have that corporate demo. I'm going to say that the rest of the demos outside of your commercial demo or anything that's broadcast like promo or animation, even to have those non-broadcast demos is also equally as important to have on your website and to also deliver to your agent as a secondary demo, because you know they want to see that you can be versatile and you're not just a one-trick pony, uh, sort of deal, and and those demos should be should be produced properly. Basically, I'll tell you, though produced properly just as important to have a produced, even though e-learning I have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm like, look, it's not about that for your demo, it's about the presentation it's about. I would much rather hear your voice in an e-learning module with a little bit of music underneath it because it helps.  09:55 It's like putting lipstick on it's just saying right, it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound and there are a lot of e-learning believe it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound, and there are a lot of e-learning believe it or not modules that do have music under them, even though a lot of them won't.  10:10 - Lau (Host) But I'll tell you what blows me away.  10:11 - Anne (Host) Medical, the same thing. Medical is the same thing. I'll tell you what blows me away, though.  10:16 - Lau (Host) How many talent we have submit to the agency for acceptance that don't have commercial demos.  10:30 - Anne (Host) And.  10:30 - Lau (Host) I say you know, I appreciate you sending me other demos, but where's your commercial demo? And they say oh, I'm saving up for it and I'm planning it next year.  10:33 And I'm like, well, then come back to me then, yeah, yeah, because that's what I need to hear. That's how specific we get in terms of having you understand what a commercial delivery is. We need to know that you understand and that you're making the investment in it as well. I think that that's really, really important. You know, one of the big sort of mistakes that I've heard recently and we've been talking about this forever, but it's been a real problem recently I was involved with a corporate casting just the other day and within the agency now these are the talent that are accepted within the agency I'm getting demo after demo, commercial demo, because they were asking for commercial demos.  11:11 They weren't even asking for reads on the script yet and, as I remembered them, I had to listen to the first like 10 seconds of the demo. They were so hyped, pitchy, selly, like over the top, wild crazy. You know big car sales and I'm thinking to myself Most of the stuff we do is really not that. Yeah. Yeah, it's much more of an earthy delivery, much more of a real delivery, and a lot of them got ditched in terms of not being submitted, just because of that it amazes me that demo producers, I think that you know.  11:45 - Anne (Host) Then you're shopping around for a demo producer. I think your demo producer needs to be current and relevant. And so when you're shopping for a producer for your demo, that you listen to other demos that are produced by them and hopefully you've done your homework beforehand and listen, like if you're going to get a commercial demo, listen to what commercials are out there lately, and not, I mean, even on the radio, right where I think radio is a little bit more dynamic, a little more, you know, focused on the voice, because there's no media outside of music behind it. I feel like you can be a little bit more dynamic with your acting, but even then it's not so high-pitched. And yeah, the car ads, yes, some of them are.  12:28 - Lau (Host) And the sound effects. Like I don't know if talent realized. We don't want to hear tons of sound effects in your first read or two. You want to hear it. So one more thing, annie, I just want to mention. I forgot to mention it earlier. When they're submitting to the agency, if I like them or their demo, I'll say, hey, can you submit me a couple raw reads?  12:46 - Anne (Host) I want totally raw reads and typically they love that you can gauge their studio that way. Absolutely.  12:54 - Lau (Host) And their voice. Like is that their voice? Was anything overly processed or overly?  12:59 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I think that's so important because you don't want to have the demo and that's, I think, that probably a lot of agents, if they don't ask for that, they'll know in a matter of like a couple of auditions whether or not you have the acting chops to be able to back up what you had on your demo or what might've been directed right for you on the demo. And we've talked about that a lot of times, and Cliff Zellman is famous for saying a demo is a promise, a demo is a promise, and so when you submit, a demo to someone.  13:27 you want to make sure that you can back that up, that you can produce that same sort of delivery. Maybe not You're not an audio engineer and you probably don't have a bank of music and you don't have a bed of music or sound effects but you need to be able to put that delivery to the test. Someone just sent me one of my talents.  13:45 - Lau (Host) He's so great. He just sent me a monster demo in honor of Halloween and it was so great and I said his name is Michael.  13:52 I said Michael, I'm just curious how much of this is processed. He said Lau, none of it. This is my voice. I was so impressed by that. I mean, I was like so impressed because once in a while we'll have an animation that comes through Actually more and more so now than last year and they'll look for those kinds of characters, they'll look for those kinds of sound effects, they'll look for that stuff. And just knowing he can produce that without overly being produced in a studio, just his voice is just really incredible. So I would say, put your natural stuff up front for a commercial agency, like, go as natural and real and authentic as you can up front and then do your high-pitchy stuff later in the demo.  14:34 - Anne (Host) Well, do that in a character demo, or do that in an animation demo, or do that or put it towards the end. In a demo that yeah put it in a demo, like you just told. Now see, I don't want, I don't want the bosses to get confused because you just talked about a monster demo, so monster demo is going to be different than a commercial demo.  14:50 Right, I demo. Right, I mean you're talking about, like I mean, a commercial demo. You would want to hear what it sounds like with the music underneath it. However, I think you have to be careful that you don't have something that's way overproduced and there will be some demo producers that might do that and so I think that you have to really listen with a critical ear. If you're you know. If you're shopping around for a demo producer, what do they do? What have they done recently? And sometimes it's hard when you're first starting out in voiceover because you don't know what a good demo sounds like and hopefully you know. If you've done your research on the Internet, you've heard examples of good demos versus maybe not so good demos.  15:34 And I'm like just because a demo exists doesn't mean it's a good one.  15:37 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and I'm glad you brought that up too, because I have been really annoyed by overproduced sound effects, like, sometimes I feel like the producers, the audio engineers, the demo producers are showing off. And why do I say that? Number one, I don't need to hear a sound effect in every moment, in between words or sentences. I don't want that at all. The other thing I don't want is oh, I almost lost my train of thought.  16:04 - Anne (Host) Don't detract from the voice with the production of it.  16:07 - Lau (Host) Oh, I know what, it is Too long. So the demo producers are either, as you said, they're archaic and they don't know what they're doing and they're from 1962, or they're showing off because it's 90 seconds, it's two minutes, it's 2.15. And I'm like I'm not listening to that.  16:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Who's going?  16:25 - Anne (Host) to listen to that right, but the producers are showing off. That's too long for a commercial demo.  16:31 - Lau (Host) Absolutely Way too long, way too long.  16:33 - Anne (Host) So I'm thinking today Not too long for a non-broadcast narration, though, like a minute and a half to two minutes that's. That's normal, of course not.  16:39 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and so I would say the one another thing I see is sounding like one long read, the whole thing lacking variety, lacking change Range, and that's to me in the coaching in the direction. It's like understanding. It just can't be about the sound effects. It has to be authentically about the voice actor being able to internally shift the mood and a variety of styles too.  17:05 - Anne (Host) I hear a lot of demos with a lot of like first person dialogues in them and to me that the first person dialogue to me is kind of a kind of a cheat, because if you're going to produce because if you're going to produce somebody before they're really ready, because not every commercial is a first-person dialogue.  17:23 It's not like hey, I just went to John Camp Ford and it's not all a dialogue. There's a lot of more third-person, second-person, and so if your demo is not demonstrating that and me as a casting person, I think you also love that A lot of times demo producers will throw those first person reads in there. Like the whole demo will be a first person read and I'm like, well, that's not really showcasing the entire range of acting that I would need for a national commercial, which is not all. You're not on camera actor there. Typically it's not always first person, it's like you're talking about a pharmaceutical in the third person. So how do you sound in that? So your demo has to have the styles that are out there now and not just one style and that one style right, that first person dialogue may show a lot of characters that you can do and it can show a range of emotion, but it doesn't show your acting in something that's not written in that style.  18:19 - Lau (Host) Good point, yeah, totally good point. And what about what's, as you're saying, what's trending out there now, like I'm really tired of hearing about, you know, maybelline, mascara or Lexus, if I hear another read with some of the same products over and over again or Dove chocolate it's kind of like guys.  18:38 I know that you didn't do those commercials because I recognize the script from the online library that a million people have. So, being very careful, you don't need to have a real job on your demo. You can have studio reads, that's fine, but it has to be updated, thought out in terms of what are the trends of today, like, maybe we don't eat as much chocolate, maybe we're having, you know, sugar-free chocolate, maybe it's, you know, I don't know whatever it is, but what is trending today and what makes you sound relevant to being a working talent today versus something from five or 10 or 15 years ago?  19:16 - Anne (Host) It's so interesting that you were talking about the L'Oreal makeup read, which is, it's always that one sound, that kind of, you know that sexy kind of L'Oreal Maybelline, and so what's interesting is how has that trend changed, right? Has it changed? Are there now more or maybe different brands that are out there that are not using that particular sound? I just because I know you referenced Dove chocolate and so I was just referencing the makeup commercials as well, right, which really took a long time for them to change, and now they're slowly changing Totally.  19:49 Now they're changing, so I don't need to hear that typical read of that promo-y sound. That's right, it's nice to hear something that's different, that is relevant for today, I mean, and you know how I know a change is occurring.  20:04 - Lau (Host) It's what we said in the last podcast that we just recorded. It's about reading your specs. So, for instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition. For instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition and in there, as we're reading it as the agents, it says no vocal fry, please. What does that tell me? They don't care about your voice. They could care less about you. It's about that delivery of like hi, I'm talking about finance. Now I'm on a vocal fry. I can't even do it, but I'm on a vocal fry. They don't want that anymore. They want more real people, and more real people do not speak on a vocal fry, yeah.  20:42 - Anne (Host) And more real people. Right, I will say. I will say, more real young people do talk a little bit with upspeak and so that is a trend that we got. I I've been. You know I'm traditionally against that, but again, I'm doing a lot of non-broadcast narration stuff and I feel like, if you can't use upspeak yet, because even even younger people, when I, when I've I've done a lot of research in the corporate world when they're speaking publicly about their product is there's not upspeak, they're more authoritative and that, yeah, it's very interesting because, you know, I'll let it happen once in a while in a script, because if the voice is young, it's a natural occurrence and a natural tendency. But if you're in your 50s and you do upspeak, I'm not, no, it's generational, it's generational.  21:29 We don't tend to do that and you might hang out and you might have kids, you might have kids, you might have kids. That's up speak. And then that kind of affected you. However, when you're delivering a commercial on I don't know, depends Up speak. It just doesn't belong there, it just doesn't. It just doesn't so, it doesn't belong with the demo. So, understand the styles and the trends, and that's something that anybody can do for free by simply watching commercials, by simply surfing the internet and looking at corporate you know, corporate videos and there's any genre looking at animation. I mean really just study and listen to what the voices are.  22:04 - Lau (Host) I got another tip. Yeah, I got another tip about that. Gone are the days where we used to have completely separate demos for English and then another language. Now you can certainly do that and that's great, but you don't have to. If you're making a commercial demo, I love a bilingual demo or a trilingual demo. So if you speak more than one language, I need to know what it is. If you do authentic accents, I need to know what it is.  22:25 - Anne (Host) I'll even put it on a corporate demo or a medical demo because I'll put and what I'll do is maybe I'll do a dialogue spot that has you'll be talking to the younger son in English, but then you'll turn to the father, who doesn't speak English and only speak Spanish, and then have the rest of the conversation in Spanish, and that spot alone showcases that this talent is bilingual and so that works. So not just for commercial but also for non-broadcast, absolutely.  22:53 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and we're in a global world, so I know you know that ad campaign. Thank you, captain Obvious. You know that was at Travelocity or something, kayak or something. I feel like it's this one. I talk to talent. It's like Not only put your best suit forward, and forward first, but do the things that you would be cast in Like. Don't do stretch pieces, don't do like if I'm 35, don't try to do a 70-year-old piece.  23:22 - Anne (Host) Don't do that. I'm saying if you're like in your 50s, don't do a millennial read on your commercial demo.  23:29 Because, first of all, it doesn't fit. I think we were talking about this on the last podcast. It's like I don't audition for 20-something voices, even though I have a younger voice, because it's not just about the voice and the sound of it, it's about the style and it's about the authenticity of it as well. Right, which is we understand why we want authentic voices. Right, it makes sense that your life experience dictates the style and the tone and the gravitas and the subtext and the acting that goes into delivering a message.  24:01 - Lau (Host) Save it for your character demo if it's appropriate, yeah, and your coach will help you to see. If it's appropriate, put it on your character demo, right, because we're back to having adults doing kids' voices. Now for character work we are. So you know you got to keep your finger on the trends, keep your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry and what's going on and reflect the work that you would actually do and be cast in.  24:25 - Anne (Host) Adults doing kids' work is. There's a lot of times that tends to make it easier with the legal aspects of things. Is that not correct? Yeah?  24:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It does.  24:34 - Anne (Host) So, like an adult, can work longer, can work different hours, and that also translates to on-camera as well, right Lau? Yeah, though I'll tell you we don't have as many problems in the voiceover world because the jobs tend to be quicker.  24:46 - Lau (Host) Oh, yeah, unless they're running a recurring character. They tend to be quicker.  24:58 - Anne (Host) It's more the on-camera stuff. Yeah, right, that's much harder, so we'll do 18 to play 12 or 19 to play 14, because of all the laws involved with education. Well, that's the way it's been for such a long time, right, yeah, forever, forever and ever, yeah, forever. And on camera, absolutely.  25:05 - Lau (Host) But, as you said, like you do your due diligence, you do your homework. We have to do our homework too, all the time about our industry, what's cooking, what's happening, what are the jobs in the genre we want to be going out for, and that should be reflected on your demo, not the old read from you know, the old announcer read from 1991. Right and I'm getting.  25:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in addition to all that right, what should be on the demo? I just have an increasing number of people who are like, well, I can't afford my demo but or I can't afford, well, I can't afford the training, but I want to get a demo so I can start working. So it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It it's tough because you really need the training so that you can execute and deliver the spots on your demo. That will get you the work. And so if I'm a demo producer, that's just going to direct you into those reads. By the time you get into your own studio you're not going to be able to recreate them.  26:08 - Lau (Host) And we've covered this in numerous episodes of VO Boss in that like don't come in with desperation, don't come in with no capital, don't come in at a deficit. Come in where you've got a little bit of abundance and say I want to get the most effective portfolio product that represents me, because I know I'm going to get a return on this over time if it is industry standard and represents me well, if I DIY it, you get what you pay for.  26:35 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, and you know, I do have a number of students as well who say that I'm saving up for a demo, but I want to start working and so I want to get an agent. And what most people don't understand this is slightly off topic but kind of in a parallel path Most people that come into this industry not understanding that an agent primarily deals in broadcast. So you can have an e-learning demo, but you're not going to get an agent with that. You need to have a commercial demo or whatever the agent specializes in for the most part, any type of broadcast. So you can't just you have to have a great demo, a great commercial demo, to land an agent, and then, once you have an agent, that's not going to be 100% of your work, or nor should it be 100% of your work.  27:18 And so most people are like well, I'm going to direct market and I'm like, do you know how hard it is to direct market? And I'm not saying that you should, because most people right now are saying nay to the pay to plays, right, because it's like, oh, I don't like this pay to play. I feel like they're taking my money, it's hard, I can't get a job, but also you need to, you need to present yourself with opportunities and so, yes, direct marketing is great, but that's also, that is also a path that doesn't happen overnight. Direct marketing. It is very much a timing issue with direct marketing and it's going to be.  27:48 It's a marathon, not a sprint, and that can make people kind of put off and you know they're going to be frustrated, they're not going to be able to get work right away, and that's, I think, that cycle that most new people coming into the industry they go through. They have that cycle where they can't afford, like they have that illusion in their head that it's just talking behind a mic and it doesn't require a lot of work and so therefore, they can create their own demo so they can save some money and then they can start getting work right away. And unfortunately, that's just not how typically the industry works.  28:24 - Lau (Host) No, it's not.  28:24 They're going to have to adjust and really manage those unrealistic expectations those unrealistic expectations, because I'm quite certain that many, many students around the world who are going into programs to be an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, are not coming in with tremendous amounts of money, but they have to be resourceful to figure out how to get their education so that they can train and get an internship and work their way up. And it's the same with us. We're just on a tighter timeline. We don't need to go through four years of school or eight years of college necessarily, and that's a great point.  28:56 It's a great point Most people.  28:58 - Anne (Host) they think there's no time involved. So it's like that's right, but there is some time involved. I mean, there is some training involved. But yeah, I think what a great discussion Again. Yet another discussion on demos. What a great discussion again, yet another discussion on demos. But, guys, hopefully it's one that's current and relevant now for you, those of you out there that are really thinking about getting into this career just reiterating how important your demo is in order to help you to move forward and have a career and get work broadcast, non-broadcast, whatever genre.  29:30 - Lau (Host) Yes, yes.  29:32 - Anne (Host) Fantastic. Thank you, Lau, for having this lovely conversation. I loved it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be like bosses and boss superpowers like Lau and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week.  29:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere share decades of combined experience, reflecting on the realities of voice acting career longevity. From the cassette tape demo era to today's digital age, the hosts emphasize that sustaining a career for 20+ years requires more than just talent—it demands resilience, strategic goal setting, and a deep sense of gratitude to combat the inevitable inconsistency of the industry.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the extraordinary Tina Marasco, Head of Casting at Sound and Fury, a respected coach, and the voice of HGTV's Love it or List it. With over three decades of experience spanning agency, acting, and casting, Tina offers indispensable casting director secrets for bridging the gap between a voice actor's truth and a client's real-world needs. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey VOBoss family Anne Ganguzza here as we wrap up the year. I just want to say thanks for being a part of this amazing community and because you bosses deserve a little holiday love, I'm giving you 10% off all demos and coaching through December 31st. Your demo discount is automatically applied and for coaching, just enter code COACHINGBFF at checkout. Treat yourself to some career growth this season at anneganguzzacom.  00:36 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:55 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome the amazing Tina Marasco, head of casting at Sound and Fury, respected voiceover coach and the voice of HGTV's Love it or List it. With over two decades of experience as an agent, actor, casting director oh my gosh, everything. Tina brings an incredible perspective on what connects talent to opportunity, and that's, I think, what we're all looking for. So I think we're going to have a great talk about authenticity, longevity and how to basically bridge the gap between the actor's truth and a client's real-world needs, which is something that I think is so important for us to get that perspective. So, tina, thank you, thank you, thank you. I know you're important for us to get that perspective. So, tina, thank you, thank you, thank you I know you're busy for joining me.  01:50 - Tina (Guest) Oh my gosh, Thank you so much for having me.  01:58 - Anne (Host) I'm very excited to be with you. I know I'm really excited, so let's talk about how it all started. I mean, you have worn so many different hats agent, actor, casting director, coach when did you start with? What did you start with? How much time do we have?  02:10 - Tina (Guest) It's like when blind doors roam the earth. I started in the William Morris mailroom in New York City in like the 90s. Okay, the heyday of you know the wild agent life Pushing the mail cart somehow. Wow, yeah, no, I was literally like doing the swimming with sharks situation and floated all over. I was in a bunch of different departments and then ultimately landed in the commercial department and my then, like, everything was lumped together. So VO on camera, soaps, they were all lumped together and my boss was the VO Maven.  02:49 Her name is Carol Baker and she's not in the business anymore, but I didn't even know what a voiceover was when I sat on that desk and it's funny because, like Terry Berlan was a casting director in New York at the time, so I was like an assistant and Terry would be calling in breakdowns and now we're both casting directors in LA. It just it feels like 72 lifetimes ago. So my, my boss, you know, basically taught me everything there was to know about voiceover and then I spent three years there, then flipped over to ICM in New York and that's really where I cut my teeth, because ICM does not have a scale voiceover department, meaning people like you and me auditioning. They only represented celebrities. So when I went over there they tasked me to start the department.  03:37 So I started from scratch. I had not a single client and went out every night to Broadway and off Broadway and performance art and you know comedy clubs and I say this all the time like my bartender at the Raccoon Lodge ended up being Sally Winters and like one of the biggest voices of the last couple of decades. So I would find talent from all different walks of performance life, bring them into our studio at ICM and kind of teach them how to do it. So that's kind of how I learned, and that's how I learned how to produce demos because nobody had any recorded material, so for us to sort of send it out and announce our department. I produced like 60 demos for our agency reel and it was literally like thrown into the fire and figured it out, ladies.  04:28 - Anne (Host) So but it worked out. That is so impressive because you pretty much built it from the ground up and you basically learned everything along the way, and I love that. I kind of think I always describe myself as I just learned by the seat of my pants, because it's like here, here's the job, do it, and then you've just okay, well, here we go. But I think that probably prepared you for a long career in doing this. I mean, I would imagine that you love what you do because you're still doing it.  05:00 - Tina (Guest) I do. And then I took a very circuitous route. I left being an agent and somehow got struck by lightning and decided I wanted to be an actor.  05:09 So I went back to graduate school for acting for three years kind of like hid away and got all of that training. And then I, the scenes voiceover Sure Paired with my newly you know tuned voice and speech training and my acting training, voiceover was sort of like the natural next progression for my performing career. Oh, absolutely yeah. So I, you know, got an agent right away and started working right away and then was really chasing on camera pretty hard. Like my goal was to be like a series regular on a sitcom, like that was the dream. And you know I did a zillion guest stars but I just never got that. You know, like that regular, regular role.  05:54 And all along the way voiceover was always like my steady boyfriend. It was always like it was always there, it was always giving me a hug and you know, finally I was like why am I treating you like you're you know this side piece over here Like I should really nurture this relationship a little bit more. And so I really started focusing hard on that and all along the way I've always coached. And then eight years ago, almost coming up on eight years, I partnered with Sound and Fury and went to the casting side of things. But I still act sometimes and I still do voiceover, but mostly right now I am coaching and casting that is kind of my day-to-day regimen.  06:37 - Anne (Host) So what brought you into the casting part of it? Was it just something that was an opportunity that presented itself, or it was something that you had always wanted to get into?  06:46 - Tina (Guest) Yeah, it was kind of serendipitous. So Carly Silver, who was my agent at Atlas, left Atlas to go to Sound and Fury, like maybe a year or so before this happened. And she was, she knew she was going to be going on maternity leave and really it was just her and the owner of the company, Jill Kershaw, and they really needed somebody to cover for her. And you know, so it was presented to me as can you just cover for like three months? You sort of have the skill set and yeah, and I was like sure I'll give it a shot. And I really was so naive I really thought I was gonna be sitting in my pajamas and be like, oh, this sounds good, this sounds good, this sounds good. And then the fury of Sound and Fury raged into my life and I came how?  07:34 - Anne (Host) appropriate for the name.  07:36 - Tina (Guest) It's not like a cute little, you know, kind of on the side, it is a full time commitment and so I remember like thinking, gosh, I don't know if I'm going to make it through three months of this Like how. Like, how does anybody like do this all day? And it's been eight years so. But we have the best team in the business, like our. It's all women, we are so well-oiled and I mean that sounded kind of funny, but I completely got where you're going but we have such a great powerhouse team and it just makes a pretty.  08:20 You know, I wouldn't say it's difficult, it's not brain surgery, but it is a pretty laborious process what we go through and it just makes it so joyful and fun and collaborative because everybody on our team is so fantastic.  08:34 - Anne (Host) Well, I think you know, for most talent in the industry, what they lack is that, that perception or that education about what really goes on in casting, that perception or that education about what really goes on in casting. So, from your perspective, tell me about like a typical day for you casting a project and what is all involved, because I think for us, we absolutely need to understand it in order for us to, I think, do better and be more successful.  08:59 - Tina (Guest) Yeah, and I would love to. I would love for actors to know all of you know what goes on behind the scenes. So every time we start a project, no matter how big or small, we do a creative call with the ad agency creative team and you know we spend a good amount of time on Zoom with them, sort of you know, trying to dissect every little detail and nuance we can get out of them as to how, what they want to hear in their perfect voiceover. And you know, on that call we hear consistently, no matter how high profile the project or how small and like it's a first time, you know, advertiser, they all want the same thing. They all want. They always say, and the answer is yes.  09:42 The reason we're paying you to cast this and we're not doing it ourselves is because we really want you to find people who sound like they've never done voiceover before.  09:49 Now that does not mean give it to your drunk uncle at Thanksgiving and expect him to be able to work his way through the copy, right? What they really mean is they want everything to sound exactly like you and I are conversing right now. What actors don't realize is that the conversational sound that everybody's kind of cultivated has just become another bad habit. Because if you really listen to how we talk in real life, it's much more intentional and therefore much staccato than most people think Like. If that sentence was written on a page and I was reading it, it might sound like yeah, the way I talk in real life is much more intentional and staccato, which was not intentional or staccato at all Right. So they want it to sound like genuine peer to peer sharing, even if you're talking about insurance, even if you're talking about management, right.  10:40 And the other thing that they're always stressing is that everything they're making now are short films. They don't think of them as commercials, and that is not just semantics, it's an actual paradigm shift. And how it applies to actors approach to the audition is now you are being asked to be a protagonist inside their short film. So your job is to simply act. Right, it's to, and it doesn't mean you'd have to have a protagonist inside their short film, so your job is to simply act, right, it's to.  11:06 And it doesn't mean you'd have to have an MFA in acting or you have to be Shakespearean, right, it just means you have to really figure out what the story is and then just behave and live truthfully, moment to moment, with the circumstance of the story. Right, and so it is as simple as that. But it also means that the voiceover has sort of been in the world of TV and film. The voiceover has kind of been relegated down to like co-star status, so meaning it is not the star of the show anymore, it's more of the bed of the film, right, so it's a lot more subtle and nuanced. And that doesn't mean do nothing, that doesn't mean you want flat or be flat?  11:49 Yeah, not flat unaffected reads. It means you know. It's kind of like. I use this analogy all the time. You're like a first chair violinist in a beautiful symphony orchestra. You still have to play your notes with precision, you have to have an emotional connection to it, but then your job is to sort of synthesize and integrate with the rest of the orchestra, because if an audience member can pick out the first shared violinist, they're doing something wrong.  12:13 That's sort of the role of the voiceover. Now it's like, hey, we want to know that you understand our story inside and out, you have an emotional connection to it and you are living truthfully through it moment to moment. And then don't make it about you. Put all of your attention on the film. It's not about you. Don't focus away from the film, it is not about you.  12:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, Now I think one of the biggest questions is well, how do I know what the story is Right and I'm not? They're typically not provided with a storyboard. I mean, if you are, that's like a luxury, I think and you know, when they're auditioning, a lot of times there is nothing really except for you know some specs and maybe an idea of what they're looking for. So how do they create that story?  12:58 - Tina (Guest) So the story for me, like my process when I coach, is because everything's about authenticity. You want to really read the specs and ask yourself which authentic version of you most closely aligns with the specs. So you're not doing anything to manipulate the sound of your voice anymore, so it's always going to be a version of you. Is it the mom version of you? Is it the best friend version of you? You know, so on, yeah. Then the second step is to really read the script, as if you're reading a screenplay or a novel for content, like figure out what the heck the story is, what is being told and from my perspective, the story is always in the copy.  13:38 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Yes.  13:39 - Tina (Guest) Literally, even if it is a tagline, and the tagline is BJ's makes anything worth celebrating, the story is come to BJ's, which is like a pizza pub right, and you can make even the most mundane day a celebration because, like, every day is a party at BJ's right. So there's a story even in that tagline. So there's always a story to find within the copy itself. You just have to read it carefully. And I feel like the biggest mistake that I hear over and, over and over again every day in casting is most people grab a few adjectives from the specs, clap it on their voice and then write it over the words Absolutely.  14:19 - Anne (Host) It's so predictable.  14:21 - Tina (Guest) Yeah. So the whole thing is just like a blanket of warmth or a blank sarcasm. And when I ask people like okay, what does that line mean, they kind of look at me like blank. I'm like no, seriously, what does it mean? Put it in your own words. And they're like so really, spending time understanding the story. Paraphrase it line for line, because you'll find when you start putting it in your own words you realize how much meaning you were taking for granted. Even like Amica insurance is proudly owned by the people we protect, right, Everybody said that line very naturally.  14:55 Everybody was like yeah, amica insurance is proudly owned by the people we protect. But anytime I've asked anybody what that means, they go blank. And I'm like what do you mean, what does that mean? And I was like it's a weird sentence. Like the insurance company is owned by the people they insure. So does that mean like everybody who's insured by Amica owns a share of stock and is it like a co-op?  15:16 But really, if we drill a little deeper, what they're really saying is what do most people think about insurance companies? They're out to screw you, right, but we're going to screw you because if we screw you we'd be screwing ourselves. So therefore, you can trust us. So now, if you know that that line is really saying you can trust us, then the way you say you can trust us is the exact way I'd want you to say that line.  15:38 So it would be more like listen, ann, amica Insurance is proudly owned by the people we protect. It's the same way I'm saying, ann, you can trust us. Yeah, right. So it's the same way I'm saying, anne, you can trust us, right. So put it in your own words, is how you take ownership of the story, how the story becomes yours, and then you figure out who you'd be having that conversation with, the good old who you talk it to, and then creating the moment before. What did the person you're talking to say or do? That forces you to respond with the first line of the story Sure, sure Everything feels like a genuine, truthful conversation.  16:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I always say for the first a lot of times casting directors will say make sure that you come in the first. You know, the first line has to be connected and engaged. And I always like to take it further than that, because if you're engaged on the first line and then you kind of lose that engagement then I think that you don't know what that story was.  16:29 That's exactly all you did was look at the first line and it could completely change by the end of the script and you don't know where that story is going or evolving.  16:38 - Tina (Guest) I understand right. That's why you have to be inside of it and living through it as it changes moment to moment, like you are. You and I are like mind melding because it's like, how many times do you hear these bad lead-ins where it's like, man, trust me, oh, so many, so many bad lead-ins, I guess, and there's so much there needs, I think, to be.  16:58 - Anne (Host) I'm always telling my students that there needs to be so much more, so much more to talk about the person they're talking to, like their issues and their problems, because that first line coming, you got to know what you're solving for them and it's got to be about them, not about how pretty you sound when you, when you deliver the information, but how you're going to actually help them to look better, feel better, be better, make more money, whatever it is, and that's the kind of point of view that's going to be authentic and genuine, because it's where I think we're all selfish. If you think about it, if I'm going to, if I'm going to lend my ears to listen to somebody, there's something for me in it. Like I'm not going to listen for the sake of you know, necessarily. I mean I've got to be entertained or educated or it's got to have something that I need.  17:44 - Tina (Guest) Absolutely, and there's so much competition for our attention, yes, our attention and our attention spans are getting shorter and shorter as we get addicted to short form content like on TikTok and Instagram Reels and stuff. So like for commercials to really hold, you know, somebody's attention, you're absolutely right, they have to be engaged. The listener needs to be engaged. They need to feel pulled into that conversation. Yeah, yeah.  18:13 - Anne (Host) And it's interesting because I do a lot of work I do. The majority of my coaching these days is corporate or long format narration, and so you've got to hold somebody's attention for longer than 60 seconds and you also have to know that story all the way through, when somebody maybe hasn't written it nicely, or like it's some marketing, it's some marketing rep that just wrote it for the website, and then you've got to figure out what is that story? What is that? And I'm always thinking and let me know if you feel the same way there's a purpose to every single word, like if somebody's written a script, like even the words that connect, connect words together, like there's a reason for them because they're leading into a story, a storyline yeah, I use.  18:53 - Tina (Guest) I tell people all the time like, don't take words like now for granted, like now. It's sort of the bridge, so it's like you were talking about what happened before now exactly right, exactly. It's not like now we're doing this. It's like no, no, everything we were talking about before happened, like now we're doing this. It's like no, no, no, everything we were talking about before happened, and now we're moving into this you know, what.  19:13 I mean Every word is. Every word is important. I always tell my clients numbers are especially important in commercials because there is a reason that number is there and it has to be delivered incredibly specifically based on what the meaning is. So is it like now it has to be delivered incredibly specifically based on what the meaning is.  19:31 - Anne (Host) So, is it like?  19:32 - Tina (Guest) now you're going to be able to get 32 grams of protein at Starbucks in your favorite drink right.  19:38 - Anne (Host) I love that you said it that way, because a lot of times people are like okay, you want me to emphasize that, 32 grams. And then they get all announcer and like no, no, no, no you just kind of lengthen it yeah you just sink into the depth of what it means.  19:50 - Tina (Guest) You're like holy crap. Like if I was paraphrasing that, I would be like holy crap. My gawky protein shake gives me like 12 grams, so this is 32 grams of protein. That's amazing.  20:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So you just think of the meaning of that right. Yeah, and for God that's amazing.  20:08 - Anne (Host) As opposed to oh, my God that's amazing.  20:11 - Tina (Guest) I mean my new, like literally my tangent right now, because so many people are coming to me and I'll play their audition back for, like you know, a retail department store or whatever, and it's like but it said excited, so I'm up here. I was like excited doesn't mean up here. If I'm excited, I'd be like Ann oh my God, I have the breakthrough that is going to change your life.  20:35 - Anne (Host) Like that is grounded, excitement that's grounded enthusiasm, you know, and maybe there's only one word that you might kind of get a little louder on or like high pitched, and that's typically I'm like well, you know, if I'm excited, I'm not high pitched through every single word of my sentence to you. I'm not high-pitched through every single word of my sentence to you. I'm not like, oh my God, I'm so excited Because a lot of times people will just tend to like elevate, and then their pitch just goes higher and higher and then it starts to sound very much like a cell, a hard cell.  21:00 - Tina (Guest) Absolutely, and you know how many words and specs do you see that are taking you down like grounded? Down to earth, depth, gravitas, that's literally gravity. All of those words are asking you to sink into your core and not be up in the stratosphere. Yeah, yeah, absolutely Like. I love that.  21:20 - Anne (Host) I love that. So, in terms of casting, when you are casting, what are the things that you? I know we're talking a lot about being engaged, being authentic, and so you have lots of things that you're casting for on a day-to-day basis, I imagine, and you have a lot of people that are submitting auditions. So how far into that audition are you listening? And everybody wants to know that that's like the magic thing, or is it dependent on the job and is it dependent on your knowledge of the actor?  21:50 - Tina (Guest) as well. Well, this is great because it'll take us back to, because I sort of stopped in the middle of the casting process. So after that creative call, we get off, we write, I write the specs. Carly and Liz on our team do all of the BA stuff. They deal with the terms. We get the breakdown written. Then we send it out to the agents.  22:13 - Anne (Host) The agents send it out to all the actors, you all record, you send it into the ether and I'm like hi, I'm the ether, yes, I'm the ether.  22:18 - Tina (Guest) And then I start listening. So a couple of questions that always come up Does it matter if you submit early? No, it doesn't matter to us, as long as your agent gets all of their auditions in by our due time. We don't know when you submitted or when you did, and I listen to everything bar none. I never, ever, ever, skip anybody's audition because I know how much care and time every actor puts into it. So I put that much care and time into listening and considering it. So I download all of the auditions.  22:50 It is a large number, like more than ever, for a number of reasons. We all know everybody and their mother got into voiceover during the pandemic and lately I have noticed, this year in particular, that there's a big, big trend from our clients of, instead of it being like okay, we know for sure, we want a woman 30 to 40. And this is the description. Now they're like we're open to all ages, all genders, all ethnicities, everything. So we're literally casting such a wide net. The numbers are sometimes, and what makes that hard, especially hard on actors, is because, even if your read and is the absolute, it's bulletproof, like. It is spot on, perfect, the most connected dropped in right. And this is the best female read in your category. And this is the best female read in your category. You could still lose the job if they want, you know, an older man of color or?  23:53 if they want a 22-year-old girl, or you know what I mean. And we are comparing apples to oranges, to bananas, to pears to plums these days, so it's really when it's that open, what I'm really listening to or I'm putting in are the most connected dropped in reads. So to answer like, how far I listen to it depends on the spot. So the first time I listened through, because the numbers are so big, the first pass of listening is really a weeding out. So I'm listening quickly. For do you match the specs? Is your sound quality good enough to do a job from home, if that's the requirement, and do I believe you?  24:36 Those are my three criteria and it's a super quick yes, no, yes no, yes no it gets very busy and I'm really at that first pass only listening to whatever the opening beat is, and sometimes I have to listen a little further because there's a joke and I need to make sure you got the turn in the script and sometimes it's like I can just tell right away. But here's the thing that I want actors to know Nobody starts off great and then tanks, and nobody starts off terrible and then gets great. At the end it's like yeah, really like sometimes you can be grounded and start and like you said, and kind of lose it, but you're not going to sort of like completely, you know, go off the fence.  25:18 - Anne (Host) That's only my experience with the long format narration.  25:21 - Tina (Guest) I mean, it's because it's a long time, yeah, yeah, but so usually you can, you really can tell, and anytime I've had like an actor anywhere near me when I've been listening to stuff even they're like, oh my gosh, it is so clear very quickly. So the first pass through is just a super quick yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Then my yes folder is pretty fat, so it's probably still a couple of hundred. So at that point then I go okay, now I've got the best of now I really start casting and then I listen all the way through and if there's two takes I listen to and then I start getting creative. So if I like take two better than take one, I'll flip it. If I like a line from you know, like take two, that I think would fit better in take one, I'll start mixing and matching some stuff and I try to narrow it down. Then I try to pick out my favorite, like ultimately about 60 per gender gets sent to the client. So for casting all genders, the clients can get 120.  26:23 - Anne (Host) So one thing that you did say, which I really loved, is that you were actually creating the auditions and saying maybe I like this one better, putting that first, maybe taking a line from this, a line from that, and actually prepping the auditions to send to the client. So number one, that makes you an amazing, amazing casting director, an amazing person. I'm just saying Right. But also the fact is you have to know your client really well. So there's that whole other aspect that maybe actors aren't even thinking about, like you have to have such a good relationship with your client to kind of know what they're looking for and also present you know solutions for them.  26:59 - Tina (Guest) Absolutely, and that's why we spend so much time before we start the project, really, you know, diving deep and getting very granular with what their asks are, and we'll do. You know like we'll do all kinds of things to sort of put like present every actor in the best light, and then once I'm done and I have my selects ready, then we give it off to our team of editors. We have a whole team of editors that get rid of all the background noise. Okay, cue everyone to the same level. So when a client plays down our casting links, everything sounds uniform.  27:34 So as much as possible with people recording all over the place.  27:37 - Anne (Host) Do you rename files if they're incorrectly named?  27:41 - Tina (Guest) Well, yes, because people don't follow directions. I'm always relaming For those of you who follow directions you're already ahead of 99% of the pack, so thank you for that. So then we send it off to the client. You know, and a lot of people don't realize this, but casting directors do not decide who gets the job. We don't even get to decide who gets called back. We are there to to be. We're like a funnel, right we're like we take.  28:09 you know we're the wide mouth of the funnel. And then we come, you know we bring it into the narrow part to give to the client. So our job is just to present like a poo-poo platter of the best of everything their specs were asking for, and then sometimes throwing in some wildcard interpretations that you know we love or that you know kind of were outside the box but we thought could work. And then they go off to the client and then we don't really we're not really privy to their process. Like I would love to do an interview of one of our clients and kind of ask them, like you know, how many people on your team are listening and how many votes go into deciding who gets the job.  28:54 Once in a while, when we get selects back from them, we'll get the notes from the creative team and it'll be like okay, here are our top five and they're like hey, love, you know, love the energy, let's try to dial it back in the call back a tiny bit, like you know, and they'll they'll have all specific notes about each person. I love getting that bird's eye view, but most of the time we don't. We just get a short list to put on avail for the. You know the record dates. Then we reach out to your agent see if check your avail and then you know if you were the lucky one that books the job.  29:28 - Anne (Host) then you know if you were the lucky one that books the job then you get the booking and and in between all of that, again I think it the major decision really lands with the client, right, and then what they're looking for. And then a lot of times I'll hear actors complain about, oh, the script changed, or you know, they were looking for this, and then somehow the spot came out and it was nothing like. And I'm like, well, that's just, there's so many things that go on between the client and the casting director and the agent and you know, that's one of and yeah and it's.  30:01 You know, that's what it's unpredictable.  30:04 - Tina (Guest) I think sometimes, like a PSA, that I would love to share with actors is you can't go to the final spot on the air and go oh, I should have done that, yeah, yeah, you do not know. There's a project that is on the air right now that we cast several rounds of and ultimately they had people on avail from us. Ultimately they didn't book anybody and it's on the air. So I don't even know who that person is. I don't know if it's a celebrity whose voice I don't recognize, or if it was somebody that they had in-house, but it's nothing like what we were casting for. So somewhere along the line, that creative changed, right, and so we weren't even privy to that. So you can't assume that what ends up on the air is what you should have done. You always want to live and die by what is on that audition page, right, because that is the only way you're going to make it through to the client. Because our job as casting directors we're like matchmakers, right.  31:05 So, we've asked them what they're looking for. We are matchmakers, we try to find the best matches of that and we are only presenting what they asked for, right? So even if you think, oh, I know they're saying for McDonald's, they want it like dropped in and like understated and announcery, and then we're going to hear it on the air and it's going to be like McDonald's happy meal, right? So I'm going to like try to outsmart the specs. You can't because even if it does end up like that on the air, in the stage of the audition we have to deliver what the client is asking for. So even if you're right and it ends up like that on the air, you're not going to make it past the audition stage because you're not giving us what is on that page.  31:52 - Anne (Host) And in reality, because you cast all day long, like 8, 10, I don't know, 12 hours a day or whatever that is. I mean, you're really good at it and so I feel like when you're listening and a lot of times, voice actors don't even realize how good you are at it at picking out immediately oh, this person is engaged, this person is an actor, and I think that's your. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you would probably prefer an actor versus maybe someone who's just. You know what. I mean, they sound good, but then they're reading it like you would imagine it to be in the spot, because the actor would be able to give the client whatever they wanted A hundred percent, and I and you know and I encourage like people, a lot of people got into this as non-actors and if they train enough, you know what I mean.  32:36 - Tina (Guest) And I mean like keep them on the hook, like training, but really all you have to learn is yourself. You just have to learn yourself. You have to know how you authentically relate to story, you have to know how you authentically feel about things and and you just have to know how to be truthful, because what I'm always listening for is truth. My ear is like a truth detector. My ear is like a truth detector. It really is like a lie detector, and that's the name of the game. There are a lot of voice actors who have made a terrific career for themselves, who are non-actors and they just ride on the sound of their voice. But more and more and more and more these days, clients are really it's got to be thought driven and not voice driven. We need to hear the voice following what you're thinking, instead of we hear the voice first. Maybe there's a thought behind it and maybe there's not. Maybe it's just voice. Right, and nobody wants that anymore.  33:36 - Anne (Host) Talk to me about second takes, and are they recommended and should they be completely different, which most people say, yes, oh, no, I say absolutely no.  33:45 - Tina (Guest) OK. So the reason I say no, it's different. It's very different than animation and video game, where I totally understand that it should be some kind of contrast. But we are we at Sound and Fury especially, are very specific about our specs and what we want, so it's not going to be that much different. There shouldn't be a drastic difference. So how I always ask actors to differentiate takes is through intention. Yes, I love that.  34:16 So there was a script for like a hospital, an example. So there was a script for like a hospital and the meaning of the script, if we like, boil down what the story was about, is that the patients are the reason why we do everything. It's the reason why we've built this state-of-the-art center and why we connect cancer specialists from across other networks and we do everything on behalf of the patients. That was the meaning of the script, right? The first line was the people we care for are the center of everything we do at Mass General Brigham, right so? And the specs said the voiceover should sound like it is the medical director of the hospital, speaking with equal parts authority and warmth and compassion, right, which you would be if you were the medical director of the hospital, right? So I always tell actors if the story is hey, the patients are the reason why we do everything and you're the medical director of the hospital. Take one might be. You're talking to the parent of a patient who comes in. Their child is being discharged that day and they're so grateful.  35:22 - Anne (Host) The mom is so grateful.  35:23 - Tina (Guest) Or the dad and they come into your office and they're like and like. I will never be able to thank you enough for the care you gave my child and you just simply respond like you don't have to thank me.  35:35 Yeah, right, this is what we do, right, and then for take two. If you go back to the story, right, I'm the medical director of this hospital and I'm Right, this is what we do. And my staff who had a negative interaction with a patient, right. So I call them in, you know, with warmth and compassion, but authority to sort, of course, correct and be like listen, anne, you are doing such an incredible job, you're so efficient. Blah, blah, blah. But we got to get on the same page about something, because the people we care for, they're the center of everything.  36:18 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  36:20 - Tina (Guest) And then you got a take one and take two that are completely differentiated by intention. They're not going to sound drastically different, right, but they are going to tell a slightly different story.  36:34 - Anne (Host) So what you've done is you've changed your moment before and you absolutely might, you absolutely could change, maybe, who you were talking to. If you wanted to get more of that authoritative, maybe you'd be onboarding an employee or that kind of thing. So then, rather than just having what I, what most people I think do at least my students they when I say, give me an A, b read, they'll just change the melody. Yeah, they'll go higher or lower. And I'm like, no, no, I don't believe you. Change your emotion, change your scene, change who you're talking to.  37:05 That means development of the story, and they have to take like, like you can't just run into your studio because it's written in a nice conversational way and then say, oh, I'm going to, then it's predictable and everybody in the world reads it the same way, because they read it. And I'm always saying you've got to take at least a few minutes to figure out what is the story there, because you need to come in off the bat reacting, versus just saying it from ground zero Like hello, I'm Anne, like I have no reason to say this to you, but you'll all sound the same if you do that. Yeah, here I am and I'm going to talk to you about this, versus you're kind of like moment before and then you're coming in, connected already and reacting. So I love that. So that's a great way to do I think.  37:46 Two different reads and I mean honestly, we have the time. I mean, unless you're being live directed right, and then they're going to usually have somebody that's directing you and they're going to say to you all right, give me something that has more, I don't know, something brighter. And so you've got direction there. But if you're just doing an audition, you've got time in your studio right, you can take an extra five minutes to figure that out and how long does it take?  38:10 - Tina (Guest) Like you know, if it's a 30 second script and you're spending more than five minutes trying to find the story, like you're overthinking it probably. The story is always very obvious, like it really truly is. It's usually the first line of script, right? It's like it's usually like hey, thesis statement, now all the supporting arguments that prove it. Absolutely, yeah, then conclusion Introduction yeah, introduction.  38:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I always say I was related to. Well, in English, we would always be given an assignment to write an essay, but before we wrote that essay we'd have to write the outline, and so you'd have to know what those outline points are, and each time you hit one it's a shift in energy. Yeah, absolutely, you know, and so usually it starts with an introduction, always, and then it ends with a conclusion, and somewhere along the way, yep it's the same.  38:57 - Tina (Guest) I mean we're both preaching like the same. Yeah, I love it.  39:02 - Anne (Host) I love that you're telling me all this, because it validates me too, because it validates me for the long format narration side of things, which most people think is oh no, there's nothing really important to that. I'm just going to kind of read it in that style because that's what I hear and I'm like but I'm not here to to, I'm not, you don't need me for that. We all, we all can do that, you know right exactly.  39:26 It's information right, hopefully hopefully you're going to be able to tell a story and that's what you're going to get shortlisted or that's what you're going to get, you know, cast. You know at least you're going to get to the next step, yeah, and.  39:37 - Tina (Guest) I find you from doing Love it or List it for as long as I did, like in-show narration is really responding to the story right, so it's like you're not really telling the story, you're sort of like you know, while David goes back to the drawing board, absolutely, you know approaching.  39:54 You know the asbestos problem in the basement, right, it's like you're sort of like reacting to what you're seeing. Asbestos problem in the basement right, it's like you're sort of like reacting to what you're seeing. So you know there's lots of different storytelling devices that are required in narration and you are the expert, more than I am. I've never really, you know, coached narration.  40:14 - Anne (Host) But it's the same. I mean, that's what I'm finding out the more that I talk to you, it's, we have the same objective really, and it just happens to be longer if it's corporate. You, it's, we have the same objective really and it just it just happens to be longer if it's, if it's corporate or if it's in show is even different than that. Right, as you were just saying, you know corporate sometimes it it's, like I said, most people will write the corporate as if it should be on a website or it should be in a marketing brochure, and that's where it becomes difficult, because a lot of that is written third person and you've got to take third person and put it into first person and that requires a little bit of effort. Yeah, absolutely yeah.  40:47 - Tina (Guest) And that's what paraphrasing can really help.  40:49 - Anne (Host) Yes.  40:50 - Tina (Guest) It makes it your own. You take ownership of that story then, when you have to put it in your own, words.  40:56 - Anne (Host) Well, my gosh, I'm so. I'm so happy we had this discussion. So, and I'm very excited that you are going to be guest directing one of the VO Boss workshops coming up in December I believe it's December 12th. So, and, bosses, you better get on that quick because it's filling up, but tell us a little bit about what you're going to be doing in that class.  41:17 - Tina (Guest) Well, I'll walk you through, you know, sort of the commercial casting process.  41:23 I mean, if everybody has listened to the podcast, then we'll be able to dive in and get right to work.  41:28 I'll give everybody, you know, very recent and relevant commercial copy to read, and you know kind of see where you are instinctively, and then I'll redirect you until we get to the point where I'm like that read could book the job, you know, and we'll use those four steps that I outlined, because if everybody takes those four steps and just puts it on a post-it note, they'll have a blueprint from which to work and you will never be lost and those four steps will keep you grounded, keep you connected to the story and keep you engaged in a genuine conversation.  42:03 So I'll kind of coach everybody into that process and you know they can take it or leave it afterward, but we'll get to the point where I will be able to say that would book the job, that would book the job, that would book the job and everybody's capable of it. You just have to know what the playing field is right and a lot of times people don't know, like when I, you know, when you say like you know, the read has to be subtle and nuanced. They don't know like what level that is, and so I'll be able to kind of provide that playing field so everybody has more perspective.  42:37 - Anne (Host) Well, I am so excited to have you, as a guest director, coming up and I have to thank you so much for taking the time and talking with me today. And yeah, how can people? I feel like we could have done this all night, oh, I know right. So how can people get in touch with you if they would like to find out more?  42:55 - Tina (Guest) Well, probably my website is the most efficient way, so it's Well, probably my website is the most efficient way, so it's tinamaroscocoachingcom, got it?  43:03 My acting website is just my namecom, but tinamaroscocoachingcom, and there you will find, you know, all of the different offerings. I did create something called the library, which is it's a video, you know, you purchase it and it's basically four hours of my coaching technique broken into like bite-sized videos, and they're all labeled by topic and time coded. So let's say, somebody gets an audition where you have to break the fourth wall. You just type in fourth wall, it'll be like video six time 208. You just watch that 30 seconds or two minutes or whatever it is, and then you know exactly what to do. So that all that information is on there. And the reason I created it is because I really wanted to get all of the right information to as many actors as I could with my very limited time. I only have time to coach two actors a day, like cast the rest of the day. So you know, and when I, when somebody already has the library and they come to coach, it's so much easier.  44:08 Turbo blasts our session. I don't have to spend the first 40 minutes trying to like go over the same thing over and over again.  44:16 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Well, that sounds amazing.  44:19 - Anne (Host) And again, thank you so, so much for spending the time. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses like Tina and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and make sure you go to VO Boss and sign up for this class with Tina. You are going to love it, tina again. Thanks again, bosses, see you next week. Bye, see you soon, bosses.  44:45 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Danielle Famble and special guest Jennifer Clark (Host of Human Kindness at Work podcast) for a Boss Money Talk Series crossover episode. They explore the profound impact of charitable giving. This episode demonstrates that giving—whether time, money, or relationships—is not just good for the soul; it's a strategic act that combats hopelessness, strengthens local ties, and creates powerful networking opportunities for your voiceover business.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com.  00:32 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:51 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza,z and today's show is a very special crossover moment. I'm joined by my regular Boss Money Talks co-host, Danielle Famble, financial strategist, voice actor and the person who keeps our boss business brains sharp. Yay, yay, hey, Anne, hey, and we're teaming up with the amazing Jennifer Clark, a powerhouse voice actor and the host of the Human Kindness at Work podcast. Today, we're going to talk about the power of giving, how it fuels mental wellness, strengthens our brand and builds real community in the voiceover world and beyond. And we'll also be talking about 100 Voices who Care, which is a charitable organization led by these two powerhouses that supports local communities by combining donations to impact local charities. So let's get into it, ladies. Thank you so, so much for joining me today. Thanks for having us.  01:48 - Speaker 4 (Host) Anne.  01:48 - Anne (Host) Yay, I'm very, very excited to talk to you guys about this, because I think this is something that it exists and every time there seems to be, let's say, possible issues in the community or you know people that need help, we get those GoFundMes, we get people who talk about, you know, donating to charities and stuff like that, and I think it's something that we need to really talk about more, about how it can affect us in a positive manner and also how it can affect our businesses. So let's maybe start by talking about the psychology of donating and giving. And, jennifer, I know, in your Human Kindness podcast you which is wonderful, by the way, guys, you absolutely must tune into that you talk to people all the time about giving and human kindness, and so what are your thoughts about you know, what are the benefits of giving?  02:43 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, I'm not a doctor, but I can speak as someone who has been, you know, intentionally giving for most of my life, and as I'm talking to guests who are really active in their community and showing human kindness at work. What I see in myself and in people that I'm talking to is that it does something for our mental health. It's really easy to look at the world, especially right now, and you wake up every day and there's another crazy thing going on. The world is constantly on fire and it's really easy to get depressed fast. I mean, that's the fastest ticket to depression, right? Just read the news, right and we lose sight of all the really good things that are going on in the world. We lose sight of the really good people that there are.  03:36 Being a part of giving is like linking arms and finding all those people in your local community and the world at large that are doing the work. They're trying to bring change, and it's really uplifting. It's one of those things I don't know what it's called, but it's kind of like when you're looking for something you know when I wanted to buy a new vehicle, I had never seen anybody drive this vehicle and then all of a sudden, when I was like I want a Volkswagen Atlas. I saw it everywhere, Absolutely everywhere. And it's the same with giving. When you look around and you're like man, nobody is doing anything, Nobody is getting involved. In my community, Nonprofits are suffering. But then you start getting involved, you will make connections like crazy and you'll start seeing all of the good and it is so uplifting. It really does change your perspective.  04:34 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely I can imagine, because, especially now, just with the craziness, as you mentioned, of the world, and there's a lot of times when I will open up my social media and then, oh my goodness, just start reading or the news and I just start to feel hopeless and what can I do? What can I do? First of all, to feel, because it's making me feel bad and not like I don't know, functional in a lot of ways, and I want to be able to help and I don't know how to help. And I think this is one way that we can focus on something that can absolutely make a big difference in our lives and, of course, other people's lives as well, and to be able to connect with people who are doing good in the world. That gives me hope.  05:25 - Speaker 4 (Host) And I think sometimes we look at problems and it's so overwhelming and we think we have to reinvent the wheel, Like oh. I got to start a nonprofit or fix the solution. There are already boots on the ground that are doing work. So making a difference, giving of yourself your time, your resources, your energy, doesn't have to be hard. It's just a matter of finding something that you want to give yourself to, and don't reinvent the wheel, just join into the good work that's already going on. Yeah.  05:56 - Speaker 3 (Host) It kind of reminds me of that.  05:57 I think the quote is attributed to Mr Rogers, or maybe Mr Rogers did the quote from someone else, but the look for the helpers quote I was.  06:07 I was speaking with a friend of mine who we were both sort of commiserating about what was going on in the world and how frustrating it is, you know, with money being pulled from certain social organizations and that's their lifeline, and she worked for one of those organizations and she was like of those organizations and she was like you know, we can get upset about it, we can get mad about it, we can feel hopeless about it. Or you can look for the helpers. You can look for the people who are out there like you said, jennifer boots, on the ground doing the good work, and it changes your psychology to see, okay, these are the possibilities, this is what's out there, these are the people who are already doing the work. How can I help them? And when you can look at that and you can find that pattern, recognition of people helping the helpers, then you can figure out how you can put your hand behind the plow and do something too.  06:58 - Anne (Host) What do you think are the things that stop people from either looking for this or from donating? And, of course, I think one of the biggest things that people will say is but I don't have any money. I don't have the money to donate. I can barely keep myself surviving in today's world. What do you say to that?  07:17 - Speaker 4 (Host) I would say we have to look beyond just finances. Financial giving is really important, especially for local nonprofits, but we have so much to give. You have to look at yourself as a whole. So you have energy, you have time, which I think are your two greatest resources, and you have money. You have relationships. So, looking at those four areas of your life, where can you give in those time, energy, money, relationships? And if you really are, I've been in times of your life. Where can you give in those time, energy, money, relationships? And if you really are, I've been in times of my life I am strapped for cash. You know, my husband was unemployed a few years ago, like it was super tight. So I get it. There are legitimate times that you don't have any extra money, but you still have time, energy relationships that you can give to.  08:19 - Anne (Host) So I would say look at that whole picture, not just your pocketbook their energy or their relationships because I love that you mentioned relationships too, because connecting with people who may have at the time the financial resources to help or other methods and sources to help is also a wonderful way to give back.  08:40 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah, social capital is a huge one because you never know what that connection that you are making between two people or groups or organizations, what that will do and that will yield in their life.  08:54 So that's a huge one, even looking outside of the box.  08:58 I was just reading a story about a woman who was at a park with her kids and noticed that there were some kids who didn't seem like they were being attended to by an adult and, instead of making an assumption, what she decided to do was essentially just take care of those kids for a little bit of time.  09:16 And she was offering her time as a resource, as essentially child care, and not making an assumption about what was happening with the parents or anything else in their situation. She was like, ok, I'm a safe place, I'm a safe person and I can provide some, some respite for these parents who may be further away, who need a little bit of time away. And she did that and that was her way of giving back. And she, when she was explaining it to me, or when she was explaining it and I was reading about that story it's not something I think that people think about off the top of their head Like, oh, this time that I have, or the ability to care, is a resource like do an inventory and audit of what you've got, what you are willing to give, what you are able to give, and then figure out a way that you can creatively if it's not financially a creative solution that you can provide for people who need it.  10:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I have a neighbor who literally just got an email this week. She typically in the summer she goes to the East Coast to stay in her home over there with other family and she offered her home to a family who had just lost theirs in the fire and the recent fires in California and you know a family that you know it was complete strange to her. And she wrote us an email and said hey guys, I'm offering my place for this family to stay for the month while I'm away on the East Coast, and they recently lost their home in a fire and would you mind welcoming them? Because not only did they lose their home but they lost their community, and so I think that, as a sense of community, would be really wonderful if you could help welcome them. And it was amazing to see the thread in that email, because all of us responded and said oh yeah, come to happy hour on Saturday, or hey, we were playing bunco or whatever it is. Come, I'll pick you up and take you over there and introduce you to everybody. And I just it was such a wonderful thing and I thought there you go, there's something that didn't really cost any money and it was something with the whole community getting together. It was just something really wonderful to see, especially like, yeah, I've had a stressful week Really wonderful to see, especially like, yeah, I've had a stressful week. And to be able to like, all of a sudden, get an email like that and then see the community come together and give it just was really a wonderful thing. And I just I think now I'm like I want to start a podcast and I want to be Jennifer, I want to be Danielle, because I know you guys also are leading the 100 Voices who Care, which we'll talk about in just a minute, because 100 Voices who Care is a wonderful organization that was a longtime sponsor of the VO Boss podcast, so I'm excited to talk about that.  11:58 So I love that we just came up with all of these ideas, because I think the number one excuse why people think that they can't give is the fact that they don't have any extra financial support, that they can, that they can donate Awesome. So let's talk about so we've got a lot of benefits where it, first of all, it makes us feel good, right, we're helping somebody else. It can give us hope in a, in a, in a place, in a world that might seem hopeless at the time or just frustrating. Might seem hopeless at the time or just frustrating. So let's talk about as businesses. How can giving help maybe our businesses and I don't like to think that it's like, oh, I want to just help my business. It's not I don't know if that's like the foremost reason that I want to give, but hey, if I am giving and I'm able to help others and I feel good about that, know that also. It can, it can positively affect our businesses as well. So, danielle, what do you think about that?  12:53 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah, no, there are so many ways that it can affect and help your business. One way and you know we'll think about it from financially, because you know I like to talk about money.  13:02 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Of course.  13:04 - Speaker 3 (Host) When you can give to businesses, you can get some sort of tax benefit as well at the end of the year.  13:10 So financially, if you're giving to a 501c3, you can write that off against your taxes at the end of the year in some cases. So that's one financial way that it can help, but also in the social capital as well. When you're out and you're meeting people who you can help or who you'd like to support, the organizations you'd like to support, it's a great way to meet other like-minded people and maybe other like-minded businesses, organizations that I enjoy supporting in my local organization, and I got to meet a ton of local business leaders and they got to know who I was and I was like the first voice actor they had ever met which was an interesting conversation.  13:57 So there are ways to meet other people and engage in just community building, especially locally, because we are local businesses as well as global businesses doing what we do in voiceover. But there's also a financial benefit too building especially locally because we are local businesses as well as global businesses doing what we do in voiceover. But there's also a financial benefit too.  14:12 - Anne (Host) And isn't that honestly like? Isn't that one of? Like the one on ones of how do I get work in the voiceover business? Right, One is OK, so we maybe try to join a roster, we try to get an agent, and then there's we'll go to your local chamber of commerce, Right? Think of this type of thing, Think of you know the possibilities of charitable donations in terms of networking, because it's all about the relationships and, as a matter of fact, a lot of the ways that we get and secure and keep jobs to keep our businesses alive and successful is through relationships. And what better relationship? Not only something that makes you feel good that you've done something to help somebody else, but also the possibility of maybe networking with people who can also support your business. Jennifer, I'm sure you've spoken to many people in your podcast also that have been able to help their business and or other local businesses. Talk about that.  15:11 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, I'll give you an example. Someone that I interviewed a few months ago was a local nonprofit here in Kansas City called Foster Light and they provide wraparound care for foster families and I loved their mission so much that I was like they had a gala coming up, a fundraising gala, and I was so compelled by their mission that I took my CPA's advice. She said you need to start spending money, and so I sponsored the gala and that was my first time doing that, but it was strategic because it was a mission that I loved and I was going to give to anyway. But I did it strategically so that then I'm advertising my business Right, right, and I'm supporting a mission that I love and I get networking opportunities. There was like for all the sponsors, there was like a meet and greet VIP happy hour beforehand, so I got networking and networking with like businesses, not just a normal attendee. So it was threefold and I thought I'm going to keep doing this because it was beneficial to me on all fronts.  16:18 - Anne (Host) So I have to ask your CPA said you need to spend some money, Jennifer. What was her reasoning behind that? And I'm pretty sure Danielle can answer that too, probably just off the cuff, without knowing. Yeah.  16:28 - Speaker 4 (Host) Why did you have to spend money? I've had a really good year. Ok, I love it, so I need to bring that taxable income down.  16:35 - Anne (Host) There you go, there you go. Yes, see, I love it, I love it, I love it. Yeah, so lots of benefits.  16:42 - Speaker 3 (Host) And can I just jump on that just for a second, because it's so important and good for you, jennifer.  16:49 - Anne (Host) That's wonderful.  16:50 - Speaker 3 (Host) So really, that happens, it happens right. You have a wonderful year, you have a great year and typically what we'll do as voice actors is okay, great. We're going to go to voiceover conferences we are going to support and we're going to make sure that we give to other voiceover events maybe help with keeping the money in our community, which is wonderful and it's a great tax write-off. I like to joke. I like business travel, right, I like to travel for business with these conferences and everything else. But this is another way that you can have that same kind of effect financially for your business. But you're also doing good and networking in your local communities, and the idea again for businesses is to try to create profit, right, and so if you're networking with people who potentially could hire you for voiceover work or think of you for connecting with other people, that's another way to help do good in the world, do a whole lot of good in the world.  17:47 - Anne (Host) And actually, if you don't mind, I want to tag team on that and say that a lot of times when I would go to the Chamber of Commerce, right, it was mostly other businesses just trying to hook up so that we could make money off each other, and it was never. It wasn't always as successful as I wanted it to be. But if you're meeting for another reason, if you're meeting at a charitable organization, you know you're meeting with people who are wanting to give or have the ability to give, and that's a completely different reason to have a good networking connection as opposed to let's just network because we want to try to get work from each other. So that is one big major difference. That is one big major difference. So I really feel like it can be advantageous or strategic to to really get more involved with, with a charitable donation or that community You're finding like hearted.  18:36 Yes, yes.  18:38 - Speaker 4 (Host) Absolutely, and those people are more likely to hire you because it's like hey, we love the same mission, you're a giver, I'm a giver, let's do business together. I would much rather do business with someone like that than some random business.  18:53 - Anne (Host) So here's something, because I know people they feel timid if they don't have a lot to give, right? There's people I mean, if you can give up your, everybody says, if you can give up your Starbucks, right, one Starbucks a day. You know you're able to give. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to give back but feels like they can't, they're not giving enough or it's too little and they're embarrassed. You know what I mean and it's not like, oh, I'm not making a sizable contribution.  19:19 - Speaker 4 (Host) I mean I'd say, first of all, don't compare your giving to anyone else's giving. You really have to put your blinders on in life and run in your own lane. So whatever you are able to do, do that wholeheartedly and don't compare your giving to danielle's giving or my giving or anne's giving um, this is your life and your time, your money, your energy, your relationships and you, you gotta do what's what's right for you.  19:49 - Speaker 3 (Host) And measure it with your heart right. Like, your heart is to give, no matter the size of the gift, your heart is to do something good in the world. That's your intention. So the amount of money is really at that point, it's not really as important as the fact that you saw a need, you wanted to give something and you gave of. You know what you had which could be a greater sum than the amount that someone else gave. So really look at that from a place of like I'm giving everything that I have, this is all I've got to give, this is what I can afford to give. If it's a monetary amount and that is immeasurable you can't measure someone's desire in that way. So look for where you can do the most impact with that amount of money or just give it because that's what your heart said to give.  20:41 - Speaker 4 (Host) And I think if we all just sit on our hands and use that as an excuse like, well, I only have the $7 giving up my Starbucks this week to give, if we all just wait on that, then nothing happens. Change doesn't happen.  20:55 - Anne (Host) Okay, possibly the elephant in the room, because sometimes, like I said, people feel pressured, right? Sometimes people feel pressured to give and then when there's a place to give where they see like, oh, so-and-so just donated $1,000. And then you might be looking at it going well, I don't have $1,000. So should I put my name there? What are your thoughts on that Name anonymous? I think there's benefits and there's pros and cons to both. To be quite honest, I think that it's really a personal choice.  21:27 - Speaker 3 (Host) I mean, this entire topic giving is so personal because it's tied to your desire to do something good in the world and to help in a way that you are able to help. So if it feels right to you to put your name on it and say this is what I gave and this is what I was able to give, and I'm proud of that and I want to put my name on it, great. If you want to not have your name on it, I've given, and given completely anonymously because it felt like the right thing to do for me, anonymously, because it felt like the right thing to do for me.  22:01 That was just the choice that I made at that time, so I don't think that it. Please try not to in this way. As Jennifer was saying, please keep your blinders on. Please understand that your reason and your why for giving is the reason to give, whether it's anonymously or with your name on it. And another way, even if you feel like maybe you're not giving a lot of money, whatever that number is for you, what you can do is you can team up with other people and combine your gift to make it a larger gift, which is what we do with 100 Voices.  22:29 Who Care?  22:30 - Anne (Host) What a wonderful segue into one of the reasons why I love this organization 100 Voices who Care. Talk to us a little bit about the organization, and I think it actually kind of just really leads itself nicely after the conversation we just had, because you don't have to, you don't have to give a lot, but together it makes a huge difference. So talk to us a little bit about 100 Voices who Care. What's it all about?  22:53 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, there are a lot of groups in the voiceover community that we join to get something right, like health benefits, vo workouts, accountability for your business, etc. Those are all wonderful and needed, but 100 Voices who Care? Is a group that you join to give. We are a group of voice actors who are changing our communities through our collective generosity. So we meet once a quarter. Virtually. Each member commits $100 per quarter and we also bring to that virtual meeting a local nonprofit that we want to nominate and we choose three to five local nonprofits to members to pitch those nonprofits. We vote via the poll on Zoom and then whichever nonprofit wins our majority vote receives the entire donation from all the members, it can mean up to, I believe, $10,000.  23:57 - Anne (Host) Is that correct? So, collectively, right, if you have 100 people that are joined, it can mean $10,000 for that local organization that you want to support.  24:06 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Per quarter, which is amazing.  24:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, oh, per quarter. Yeah, thank you for correct me. My financial boss over there, thank you, I love it Just keeping you in line. Yeah, I love it Just keeping you in line. Yeah, I love it because you may think that your $100 isn't really doing a lot, but in reality, when you combine it with the community, I mean that is amazing. I mean that's per quarter to help an organization and that is something I think you can be proud of. And the fact is is that not only are you helping a local organization to do good, but you're also networking with like minded voice actors. So not only are you like minded in your maybe in charities that you support or you know ideals that you support, but also your voice actors as well. So there's so many benefits to that, and I've always, always loved this organization, so I'm so glad that the two of you are heading it up. So how does it work? How can people join this organization? And are they tied to a year, or are they tied? You know how does that work. So we.  25:09 - Speaker 3 (Host) the way it works basically is that we are open to any voice actor who wants to join our organization. We give through a third party called Grapevine. So Jennifer and myself, as we are the leaders of 100 Voices who Care, we're not touching any of the money. So you would join through Grapevine. We all get together and Grapevine is the one who takes our $100. Grapevine also will vet the nonprofit, that is, the organization that we would give the money to as the donation. We are not doing anything other than meeting, finding local organizations, pitching that organization to the greater group 100 Voices who Care and Grapevine really takes care of all of the nitty gritty of keeping our money, sending it out, vetting the nonprofit to make sure that everything is above board.  26:02 - Anne (Host) I was going to say I really, I really like that that they vet the organizations that you're giving to, because you vote right as a collective, you vote on who to give that money to, and so it may not have been your personal choice that maybe wins. And so you might feel like, well, you know where's this money going to and what are they doing with it. So I really love that you have a third party that's vetting. And is there somebody that vets grapevine? Do you know what I mean? Some people might have that question or talk about grapevine. Have they been? I mean, has this been around? How long has this been around? How long have they been working with this?  26:36 - Speaker 4 (Host) I don't know the answer to that. We've been with Grapevine from our inception, so we started in 2022. Oh.  26:42 - Anne (Host) OK, so it's been a good number of years yeah.  26:46 - Speaker 4 (Host) And we've always had a wonderful experience with them as far as that vetting process and they've got a great customer service as well.  26:54 - Speaker 3 (Host) So we have reached out to them just to ask questions about how to better facilitate. You know our group or what we could, who we could be giving our money to, and they answer us within a day or two days. We've even emailed back and forth with the founder of Grapevine, so they've been wonderful to work with and they've got great customer service as well.  27:20 - Anne (Host) So you've been doing this since 2022, is that correct? Yeah, so what are some of the organizations that have been helped by 100 Voices? Who Care?  27:29 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, our very first recipient was called the Grooming Project. Now they're called Prosperity, but they're here in Kansas City. I had the privilege of pitching them. They are my favorite nonprofit in Kansas City. They're based here. They are the country's only nonprofit dog grooming school. In the entire country. They have this really transformative program that breaks the cycle of poverty through extensive job training within this booming industry of pet grooming. So their students are usually society's most vulnerable. They focus on single parents living in poverty. So these students not only learn the art of dog grooming but they learn life skills like budgeting and parenting, emotional regulation, things like that. So once they go through this two-year program, they graduate having a grasp on life, you know, and then they have this trade that they can make a real living in. So it is literal life change. My dog groomer went through this program. This is how I came to know Posparity. She was in the first graduating class and she was so successful that she managed the salon that they offer to the community at a low cost.  28:48 So that students get an opportunity to work on their trade and then it goes back into supporting this mission. But she managed that salon and then she was so successful that she bought the entire salon with Prosperity's Blessing.  29:04 - Anne (Host) That's wonderful.  29:05 - Speaker 4 (Host) Took all of the workers with her, with Prosperity's Blessing, and she has this thriving dog grooming business in the Casey Metro.  29:12 - Speaker 3 (Host) Oh, that's wonderful.  29:13 - Speaker 4 (Host) You know she, prior to this program, she was working multiple jobs, single mom of two, living in government housing. Her life is completely different and now she hires prosperity graduates in order to give back, so I love it. These are the kind of when you're when you're looking in your local community for a local nonprofit to bring to a 100 Voices who Care meeting. These are the kind of things that you get connected to.  29:41 - Anne (Host) This is.  29:42 - Speaker 4 (Host) I see Christine, my pet groomer. Pet groomer every six to eight weeks because I have a golden doodle and they need lots of grooming. I'm in her life now and there's just nothing like that to be connected to people in your community doing good work and giving back.  30:00 - Anne (Host) So how can people sign up for 100 Voices? Who Care if they're interested? I mean, do you have a period of time, that a special time that they sign up? Because you say you're giving quarterly, so I assume that there's another quarter coming up. Yeah, so there?  30:12 - Speaker 3 (Host) we have meetings every quarter. Our next meeting is going to be on November 17th and you can really sign up at any time, but the idea is that you would be coming to our next meeting. We ask that people are ready to pitch. You would also be getting that $100.  30:32 Great Fine, would be debiting that money and you can set up as a recurring payment through your credit card, but we ask that people are also, yes, ready to pitch, but also bring a friend, because we want to grow this to the 100 voices so we can get to our $10,000 per quarter. Absolutely, absolutely.  30:50 - Anne (Host) Now, do the people that join? Do you have to bring a local charity? Or, if you're not familiar, I think it's great because I feel like you should research. Or if you're not familiar, I think it's great because I feel like you should research charities yeah. But if somebody maybe not have any preference, is it something that you take care of or that's okay?  31:06 - Speaker 4 (Host) We ask that people research small, local nonprofits. It does not have to be local to you, oh okay, but we're just saying you know Red Cross, st Jude Research Hospital. They're doing great work, but they have huge donors, huge budgets. Everyone knows about them. So we want to find those nonprofits that are doing good work in local communities. So that can be anywhere, but we do ask that you do a little bit of research.  31:30 We have a really easy email template, so that once you find that nonprofit, you just email our template, fill in the blanks, email our template off. And there are people at these organizations whose job it is to answer these questions. You know, I think a lot of people feel like they're imposing or they feel weird asking these questions, but literally there are people who are, you know, doing applications for grants all the time. So they already have these answers ready to go and this template that we've made just makes it so easy for you to create a pitch, a nomination out of that. So, yeah, we just ask that you do a little bit of research We've made it as easy as possible and that you bring it to the meeting.  32:13 - Anne (Host) Great, when do they go to sign up?  32:16 - Speaker 3 (Host) They can go to our Instagram. There's a link in our Instagram where they can go to sign up and we just, you just take it from there and it'll take you to Grapevine, where you will sign up through Grapevine.  32:29 - Anne (Host) And bosses. I'll put that in the show notes for any of you and, of course, when we, when we promote the show, which we will be doing heavily we'll be putting that link in there as well. So last question, guys If a listener takes just one action after listening to this podcast, what would you want it to be?  32:46 - Speaker 3 (Host) Sign up for 100 Voices who Care. Join us, Use your singular give to be with a collection of people who really want to do good in our local communities. And you know, just join us with 100 Voices who Care.  33:01 - Anne (Host) Jennifer, because Danielle took yours probably.  33:03 - Speaker 4 (Host) Yeah well, I would just piggyback off of that to say if you're hesitant, if you're like I'm not sure that I'm ready to commit, just come check us out. We welcome guests in our Zoom meetings. Just come see what our collective generosity is all about, what that looks like. The Zoom meeting is on our Instagram link. You can just click it and join.  33:25 - Anne (Host) You'd be a fly on the wall, so you don't have to be committed yet there's no obligation to join.  33:29 - Speaker 4 (Host) I love that you can just come sit in check us out and then ask any questions that you'd like after that meeting. Perfect.  33:36 - Anne (Host) Sounds amazing. Well, you guys, it's been such a wonderful, wonderful episode with the two of you, danielle, as always, my money boss, thank you so much for joining me again and for bringing 100 Voices who Care to me, because Danielle asked me to bring you along, jennifer, so we could talk about it. Because, yes, there are multiple benefits, as we've discussed in this podcast, for donating and for contributing to a community who can make a greater impact. And, jennifer, for those people that want to listen to your podcast, how can they do so?  34:12 - Speaker 4 (Host) Oh, thank you. Yes, it's called Human Kindness at Work and you can actually go to my website jennifersvoicecom slash podcast and check it out there. It's called Human Kindness at Work and you can actually go to my website jennifersvoicecom slash podcast and check it out there. It's on all the major platforms and also YouTube.  34:25 - Anne (Host) Perfect, awesome, and you'll be hearing more from Danielle and I as the months come up, because I'm not letting her go. There's more money to talk about for sure. That's right. There's always more money to talk about you guys. Thank you again, so very much. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, and of course, I'm going to tell you guys, please sign up for 100 Voices. Who Care? It is an amazing, amazing organization. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  34:52 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides explore a core challenge for every voice actor: managing personal emotions and moods to deliver a consistent, authentic performance. The Bosses delve into how easily actors can slip into autopilot or let personal frustration compromise a read. This episode provides practical acting methodologies to help you discipline your thoughts, shift your emotional state on demand, and utilize your entire emotional range to serve the story.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey Boss, listeners, Anne Ganguzza here. Leveraging years of expertise in the voiceover industry, I offer coaching and award-winning demo production that embodies excellence. I am dedicated to your success. Let's work together to get your career to where you've always wanted it to be. Visit anneganguzza.com to find out more.  00:24 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with Superpower co-host Laura Lapidus. Yay, thank you, annie. I love being called a superpower. Well, I'll tell you what your shirt is so colorful today. I love it.  01:06 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I'm feeling like this blue is putting me in a certain mood. You know, getting me very moody, but not in a blue mood, more in a hot mood.  01:15 - Anne (Host) Yeah, it's blue and flowers, so there's kind of like a cult, like a culmination of moods, maybe I thought you were going to say a cult.  01:22 - Lau (Guest) No, not a cult, but more of a comedy, more of likes, maybe I thought you were going to say a cult.  01:33 - Anne (Host) No, not a cult, but more of a comedy, More of like artistic meets, comedy meets, I don't know, meets like hot diva thing, oh my gosh. Well, you know that's funny. I'm always so thankful to talk to you, Law, because you're always so positive and upbeat and happy.  01:41 And you know it's interesting because I, as you know, I mean I work with a lot of students and a lot of them that are working full time and then doing voiceover part time, and so they've got, or they've got life happening you know life you know, life, life can happen, life happens and I'll tell you what your mood and how you are dealing with the day can so affect your reads, because I'll have some people that'll be like, yeah, I did it last night, after you know, I came home from work and I'm like, well, yeah, I can tell, because you were exhausted or did you have a bad day, because it actually reflects in your read and I thought it'd be great to talk about how your mood affects your performance.  02:30 I mean, it seems so obvious and we just say, yeah, your mood affects your performance, but maybe it affects it more than you even know, because a lot of times I feel like we go on autopilot. When we're in a certain mood, or we don't want to deal with certain things, or you know, we're not going to acknowledge certain feelings, we then compartmentalize, and we don't always compartmentalize in a way that's helpful for our performance.  02:53 - Lau (Guest) So true. And you know, I first thought about mood as a young, young kid, really, when I was being trained in the theater. I would have directors that would say for rehearsal, leave your trash at the door. Don't worry about it, it'll be there to pick up on your way out.  03:11 - Anne (Host) Leave your trash.  03:12 - Lau (Guest) What does that mean? And meaning that to discipline yourself in the workspace, you cannot bring in every feeling, every thought and every mood that you're walking in with. You have to leave it behind and come into that neutral discipline space.  03:28 - Anne (Host) Unless.  03:28 - Lau (Guest) maybe you're using it to create a character Unless you're channeling it, but even so it's like can you move in and out of it?  03:37 - Anne (Host) That's tough to do. Yeah, that's tough to do.  03:40 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, or is it so adopted in you, so inside of you, that you can't see it? You no longer have the self-awareness to see the mood that you're in.  04:03 - Anne (Host) They're like no, I thought it thought it was great. And then, in reality, I'm like you were tired, weren't you? You know, or you were exhausted, or you were frustrated, or and sometimes it'll become it'll come out right in the first few words I'm like you hate this script, don't you? It's like, well, I had a bad day and so, yeah, being able to compartmentalize or put that aside. And then the probably, I would say, the biggest problem for me in the niches that I teach is that it's. You can start off in one mood. You can say, ok, I've got to be positive, I got to get my energy up, and because I've had a long day, and so let me get my energy up. And then you've got it up for a couple of seconds and then, and then, all of a sudden, you go into autopilot and you lose track of the fact that you got out of right, you got out of that energy and you just went on autopilot. I think going on autopilot is like 90% of the problems in, let's say, long format narration anyways.  04:58 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and also really being able to you know, with your analysis that you're doing of your script, it's really being able to pinpoint what is the mood of the story, how does the tonality change, not just the writing of it and the language of it, but also the rhythmic cadence of it and the musicality of it. What is happening with the mood? Because, as actors, if we don't have mood, if we don't understand mood and there's no mood to it, then we completely lose our momentum. There's no momentum without mood.  05:28 - Anne (Host) And I love how. All right, so now we just took it from our mood to the script and the script's mood, and that's a really important, I think, factor to consider, because not only do we have to put aside any mood that might be detrimental to our performance, but we also have to read the mood of the script and then apply a point of view that would equal the mood of the script in order to serve it. You know, properly, really, and the mood doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script.  05:58 The mood is all throughout the script and it changes which I think is so important to understand that it changes and you need to figure out how it's changing. You can't just assume that you're going to be happy from the first sentence all the way to the end, because a good story, right, there's always an evolution of. You know, you start off maybe questioning or concerned or hey, what's the best solution for this? And then, all of a sudden, the discovery right, you start learning about this product or you realize how this product has helped, and then you become more excited about it and then you want to share that with that listener. So it's an evolving story and I think if you don't analyze that script for the evolving mood, yeah, you're not doing it justice.  06:38 - Lau (Guest) And so many VOs, I think certainly at the early stages of voiceover, really miss the point of when a coach might say oh, who are you speaking to? Where are you at. It just becomes a pedestrian and saying oh, I'm talking to a best friend or I'm talking to my teacher, and then they leave it at that. But they don't realize that not only is that specific in terms of your environment and how you behave and the mood that you're in when you walk in a doctor's office, for instance.  07:07 But each doctor is different. Doctors are not the same, they're different people. So how many voiceover talent really investigate the depths of let's say, who am I talking to, or where am I, or what's happening, because of the kind of tones and moods that it's going to shift you into?  07:27 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, because you would talk to your doctor a whole lot different than you would talk to your friend and the whole, the whole thing in casting where it says like you're talking to your best friend, right. I think that kind of did a disservice to a lot of voice actors who took that at face value and did not realize that the intention behind that was simply to get you to not sound like a commercial or sound like you're trying to sell somebody something. And I think it doesn't, because I have I have a number of students are like OK, so I'm talking to my friend Sue and I'm like but Sue doesn't care about, sue doesn't care about Lincoln Financial, like Sue uses Bank of America. So you have to really figure out who is it that you're talking to that's interested and can benefit from the topic that you're talking to.  08:16 And it may not be your best friend, sue, like I always use SAP as an example. Like Sue doesn't even know what SAP is right, and so how can you talk to Sue about it? Because she's gonna be like what, what is SAP? Why do I care about it? And it's hard to talk to somebody in a scene, right as an actor, when it's not relevant to them, and so who you are talking to is so, so important. Talking to your doctor is much different than talking to your best friend, betty.  08:43 - Lau (Guest) And not getting complacent or lethargic or lazy about stopping at finding out the information. Now we have to go into the emotional mindset of the person in the situation. Sure, it's not enough to just know where I am or who I'm speaking to. I have to know in context what we're discussing and how I feel about. That's where your point of view comes in and also how it shapes the whole scene like where you start and where you end up should be a very different place. Oh yeah, In terms of mood.  09:16 - Anne (Host) Absolutely the mood. The mood shifts and and ultimately I love that you mentioned about like it's. It's not necessarily about you and how you sound when you're delivering that information. It's about how what you're saying is affecting the person that you're talking to, right? How is it going to help them? And then people are like well, what do I? What? What's the most important thing? What are the important words in the script? Well, the ones that affect the person that you're talking to. They could care less that. You know, sap sold a million widgets last year, right. But what they care about is that SAP is going to make their lives easier by consolidating right, consolidating the installations in all different departments of different software, and it's going to make their company run better. So that's what they're concerned. They don't care that SAP I mean, in reality, as a consumer do you care like that? You know Coke Zero sold a billion last year.  10:11 - Lau (Guest) No, it doesn't matter. I mean, and even just like, if you're talking to people you know in your world, it's like I choose a friend. You know, like you make choices on the friend you want to talk to about business, the friend you want to talk to about your mom, the friend you want to talk to about something super personal, like you make those choices along the way, do the same with your script, and not only with your script, annie, I'd say with your business in total.  10:36 - Anne (Host) And if your friend doesn't apply. Can I just say this yeah, if your friend doesn't apply, then don't use your friend. Right, apply, then don't use your friend, use somebody that can really benefit, because then what it does is it turns it from you just talking to like anybody or someone, right, who's going to buy the product, into someone that's going to benefit from the product and you will be helping them, and then that becomes like more emotional, right, it becomes like oh, there's meaning to this, there's a purpose. Right, there has to be a purpose to what you're saying. And if you don't have a purpose and you're like well, I'm just going to give them information, right, any old person information about the product, well, that doesn't give you much purpose.  11:20 - Lau (Guest) Yeah.  11:22 - Anne (Host) Yeah, then I could just read it to you, because I don't have a purpose, like I have to want to help you, right, I have to want to make your life better, and that's going to give me purpose and emotion, and that emotion will help to at least give me a point of view that will make it more unique than just hello. This is a product that I want to sell you right you know, that's it.  11:45 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right.  11:45 - Lau (Guest) And it seems like we're saying you know that commercial campaign, whatever it was, trivago or something. Thank you, captain Obvious. You know like what we're saying should be obvious and common sense, but it's bringing back to what you were saying at the beginning of the show, and that was don't go on autopilot, don't let your mind go into this sort of complacent neutral zone. You have to be a thinking, working talent that's always considering how a situation changes. A situation changes moment to moment, and so does your mood.  12:21 - Anne (Host) A thinking that's a good one. Right A thinking that's a good one. Right A thinking. Working talent, as well as your business decisions.  12:30 - Lau (Guest) You're an amazing business woman who's always thinking, strategizing, paying attention Like what is the mood? I'll give an example what is the mood of your website?  12:42 Well, if you look at the person who's going on your website, they instantly feel a certain way. Right, they do so. Why not strategize how you would like your audience to be feeling when they see a visual of you, when they see a testimonial of you? Sure, how do they feel? What mood is it in? Well, we all know in sales sales 101, that when you see a success story, you feel good, you feel successful. Potentially, you feel like you could do that. So that shifts your mood instantly. It's compelling.  13:23 - Anne (Host) It's so interesting Like we just spoke about this in recording a previous episode about how did that ad make you feel? Right? I wanted to be that person. I wanted to buy that product because I wanted to be like that person. I wanted to feel good. Look good, I wanted to, right? I think it's really all about feel good, like who buys a product that wants to feel sad or angry, right? So how is that? How is your voice going to affect the person that you're talking to? How is it going to make them feel better, right? Yes, feel good, look good, make more money in respect. We all just want to feel good, right? Yes, feel good, look good, make more money in respect. We all just want to feel good, right? I don't know anybody that purposely wants to feel sad. Well, we want to feel. Sometimes I like a good cry, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be voicing something to give somebody a good cry, unless I want to affect them in a creative way in that way, right?  14:11 - Lau (Guest) Well, I think that there's power. Well, I think that there's power. You know, the first thing that flipped into my mind was the original. The original Disney Snow White that we all saw when we were young kids was that the evil queen looks in the mirror and says you know mirror, mirror on the wall. Who's the? There is a mood mirror that we create as artists to like.  14:34 Looking at Shakespeare said, as as held to a mirror up to nature. It's like, as actors, as talent, we're mirroring society and then society is mirroring us, and it's this reciprocal thing that goes back and forth. Well, one of the biggest things we're hired on is our energy, which is directly connected to mood. Energy and mood. Mood go hand in hand, and one of the things we're let go and fired on is our energy too.  15:00 Sure so being very aware, heightened awareness of the kinds of moods, mood shifts, mood swings, mood highs, lows, like okay, great, that's your palette. But being aware of when am I applying the nuances of mood?  15:17 - Anne (Host) No, thank you for bringing me out of the commercial, corporate aspect of voiceover, because you just there are. There's a gamut of emotions, right. So if we're doing character animation, we really do have to, we have to kind of take on those emotions so that we can make others feel right, we can make others feel something and that's it's. It's interesting I was just talking to somebody the other day about, like, my creative rest, right when I'm not in the booth, is I love to watch a good movie or a good show, because it's incredible how, how much that can can change you as a person.  15:51 And I want to, and I want to feel as though my voice can do that for somebody. That can make them feel good, change their lives in some way. That is good, whether I do make them cry on purpose or I make them feel good about a product or however that is. And that is absolutely about the mood, absolutely about the mood, and again, it has to be the mood that's dictated by the script, which, if we're not looking at that script and we're not analyzing that script, for the mood board, right, For the mood board of the, I guess the mood board of the script, that would be a good name for a class right, the mood board, the mood board, the mood board, and you get a mood mirror with the class.  16:35 Yeah, yeah yeah, exactly, exactly. You need to create that mood all along the pathway of the script, because that's the best way to tell the story, because our stories, stories, are boring if we're all just one particular consistent emotion. I mean, how do you hold anybody's attention in that respect? Usually it's like the emotions are all over, and some more so than others, depending on the focus and the purpose. Right Again, it's one of those things when you look at a script, what is the purpose Like? What is it that you want your listener to feel, believe, buy, you know or do when you're done with it? Because we have, what a cool opportunity, like, think about it. That's an opportunity.  17:19 It's a wonderful opportunity to be able to do something like this.  17:24 - Lau (Guest) It's amazing In an industry where you feel like you just have no control over anything. There's one thing you can control, or at the very least manage really well, is your mood and being able to understand what are my triggers, what are my buttons, what are my happy buttons and sad and angry buttons?  17:42 What are they so that I can artificially trigger them when I need to and artificially turn them off when I need to, because I think that that's a huge misnomer is like coming in and just saying, oh, I just am going to lay prostrate to whatever I feel in the day. Well, that's a huge misnomer. Is like coming in and just saying, oh, I just am going to lay prostrate to whatever I feel in the day. Well, that's not true. Like professional performers have to discipline the way they feel throughout the day so that they're not taken by all their you know chaotic, crazy, creative thoughts all the time. You have to be able to discipline those and use them and redirect them when you need them.  18:19 - Anne (Host) I like that Disciplining your thoughts or disciplining your moods.  18:23 - Lau (Guest) I mean you have to do both. You can't believe every single thing that comes into your head. As the famous Dr Amen neurosurgeon says. You cannot believe everything you think and say believe everything you think and say right, you're not going to be held, you know, captive by your thoughts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to be careful of that because as actors and as creatives and as business owners, sometimes we get a thought, a suggestion and then it starts to ripple and run like a slippery slope that well, maybe it's this and maybe they think this of me and maybe it didn't work. Because you have to discipline that and put yourself in that, neutralized. I call it recalibration. Recalibrate your mood.  19:03 - Anne (Host) And also it's it's. You've also got to be able to adjust that mood. If you're being live directed and all of a sudden that mood wasn't what they wanted, and all of a sudden here's a new mood. We want to switch it this way, or you've got somebody else that says no, I really wanted this, I want to make it brighter, or I want it to be more serious, or I need it to be more even keeled, or whatever it is.  19:27 - Lau (Guest) You've got to be able to adjust those moods and it's a lot of work, like a lot of people say, oh, you should just be happy. No, you can't just be happy. You're a human being. It's a lot of work to be disciplined in being positive-minded and positive energy when you're working, because you don't always feel that way.  19:44 - Anne (Host) It's not always in alignment to your life, I think a lot of times and I've got a love-hate relationship with people who are told to smile more in their scripts Because some people take that so literally, and then they smile on every single word and I'm like, but that's not true to the story, right? I don't talk to you like this, the entire time, with every single word, with this smile, because it's not authentic, right? So I think really the smile comes from, I think, a lot of new people to the industry. The smile is to get them out of a read really.  20:24 And that's what it's for, but then they take it so literally. Then there's a smile and I get them when I'm trying to teach them long format narration and every word is a smile, and that's not the case. There's a nuanced story to be told. There's a story to be told, and not all of it is a smile. However, and some people can think a smile that's me I can think, because I'm pretty much bubbly anyways. I can think a smile and it comes out in my mood, right yeah.  20:48 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and we're going to create an invention. I just had an idea for an invention and your audience is going to be the first to hear about it.  20:56 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You and I are going to create the mood meter.  21:00 - Lau (Guest) I love it. The mood meter is sort of like a not like a metronome, but like a measuring device that measures your mood based on your behavioral affects and the sound you make, whatever.  21:12 - Anne (Host) How cool is that. That's a great invention.  21:14 - Lau (Guest) So when someone says are you okay today? Do you feel okay?  21:18 - Anne (Host) Yeah, it's like a lie detector. And then it goes like this yeah, it's like a lie detector.  21:23 - Lau (Guest) And you have to strap it on to some part of your body, right. And then when it goes this way, you know you're in trouble. And it goes this way, you know it's good. Right the mood meter.  21:33 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, you're resonating, you're vibrating with a mood that is right, and so let's talk about what are ways to allow us, what are some ways that would allow us to separate ourselves from our own, let's say destructive moods in the booth right, because it's really not about our moods in the booth. I mean our personal moods unless it's going to help the script in the booth. I mean our personal moods unless it's going to help the script. How do we disassociate from a rough day at work, a long day with the kids or whatever that might be? You know?  22:03 - Lau (Guest) the first thing that comes into my mind is an acting methodology that a lot of folks have not heard about Even actors have not heard about this which is so specific. It's called Rasa boxes and look it up, it's very fascinating. It's where you tape the ground, literally put tape on the ground into boxes and when you walk into the box, the box represents an emotion. So the actor, like they're on the bench going into the professional game, has no moment of in-between.  22:30 They go from neutralized, completely neutralized, into the box into the emotion immediately, and then, when they step out of the box, they come out immediately. It's a fantastic technique. Well, in essence, our booth is our box but, you can create that anywhere in your world. You're in a hotel room, create your box, but then when do you evolve your mood?  22:54 - Anne (Host) or is this just to disassociate yourself from, let's say, a bad mood? Right, let's say you're in a bad mood, or you're tired, or you're angry, or you're frustrated because I don't know. You just had a fight on the phone with a customer service rep, or you couldn't get a hold of a customer service rep Right. Or you couldn't even call. You're trying to text a customer service rep.  23:14 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right, you're trying to order that damn chat bot that's on the website.  23:18 - Anne (Host) There you go, see how I've just evolved it over the years. It used to be that you'd call and you'd be frustrated. Now you get nobody and then you get the automated. You're frustrated and then, yeah, then then there are no phones and what do you do? You chat with the service representative and then you get the chat bot. So the evolution of customer service over the years. So, yeah, you want to make sure that you are not in that frustrated mode and so it's just clearing you of this box. Once you step into this box, consider that. What is that called? Again, the RASA box.  23:52 - Lau (Guest) Everyone look it up. R-a-s-a.  23:54 - Anne (Host) It's an international technique, you step in this booth and you clear your emotion from anything that's going to detract you from executing your job properly.  24:05 - Lau (Guest) And another big issue that I see with clients and with students is that they can't control the analysis, the paralysis of analysis, so they immediately go into intellectualizing it, analyzing it, and they cannot get to the emotion.  24:21 - Anne (Host) If you go in a box and you become.  24:24 - Lau (Guest) You drop your inhibitions, you drop. That. Is this right, Is this wrong? Is this what they want, Is this what they mean? And just go right into it. You're going to go to places that you were not allowing yourself to go to because you were stopping it intellectually.  24:38 - Anne (Host) Stop that voice that's up here that says is it right, Is it what they're looking?  24:42 - Lau (Guest) for yes, am I good?  24:44 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right, it's that whole sabotaging voice.  24:48 - Anne (Host) You've got to turn that off and simply not be concerned about it. And again, it's one of those things. It's so interesting because so many people are when we talk about that mood right, I have so many people when I talk to them on a free consult and they're like, well, I want you to hear my voice and let me know if I have what it takes and I'm like that is really has nothing to do with your voice. It really and I said honestly, I can hear that you would do well if you wanted to, if you would allow yourself to, because I enjoy your personality, I enjoy the engagement, I feel like you're an engaging person and I feel like the potential is absolutely there. You just have to allow it to happen. And again, I can hear.  25:28 I mean, if they have a speech impediment or something like that, sometimes that might affect, like me, understanding everything. It doesn't mean that you can't be a voice actor, but really it's. It's me connecting with you on a human level. That's the mood. That's the mood that's going to say, yes, I can be a successful, I can be a successful voice actor. Exactly A mood that says I can engage with human beings in a human way and be interesting and likable and all that or not likable, depending on what the script calls for. But initially, when I'm meeting someone, you know how. You just meet someone and you're like, oh yeah, like you just immediately connect, they have the it factor.  26:08 - Lau (Guest) They have the factor.  26:09 - Anne (Host) So many people have the factor, but they don't think they do. Right Again because of that voice that's saying I'm not good enough. Is it what they're looking for? I don't think I can. It's that horrible, sabotaging voice.  26:21 - Lau (Guest) I also would say, annie, that if you have the self-awareness to know, or you have a buddy that can tell you that you're too high or you're too low coming into your work, it's never a good place to start. You should be able to go high and go low if you need to, but you should not be starting from that place. You should be starting from that, really neutralized. I don't call it relaxed, it's not relaxed, it's released. I call it the middle C. Yeah, it's the middle. It's like you're the core of being released and being present and being open and aware. Yeah, it really is that.  27:00 - Anne (Host) Like a melody, like a music passage.  27:02 It can fluctuate up and down and it can have all sorts of places to go, whereas if you're coming into anything high or low and don't equate it so much to pitch although it does equal pitch, but we're not necessarily talking about pitch but sometimes I tell people when they come in hi, see that that's a performance, hi, I'm behind the mic and I want to sound a particular way and that just makes me pitch up. Yeah, I want to be that really low voice, but you'll notice that when I do that I have no place to go. I can't go down further. I mean, I started at the lowest possible voice. I have no place to go If I start too high.  27:51 - Lau (Guest) I've got no place to go. So if you start right in the middle, at that middle C, you got lots of places to go. What a cool conversation. That is right. And one more thing I want to say is don't ever fall into the mindset that you're not capable of a particular mood because it's not part of your natural persona or personality. So let's say you're a more introverted person, you don't let out your emotions quite as much, and you're more business oriented and you do those kinds of reads Great, but it's all in there, it's just a matter of unlocking it.  28:12 So how you unlock those particular personality traits that allow those moods and spirits to come out is really it's exterior, it's situational. So if you put yourself in the right situation it will come out of you.  28:27 - Anne (Host) It's like that adrenaline call when you're like, oh, I'm a superhero all of a sudden. Yeah.  28:32 - Lau (Guest) So what I'm trying to say is change your environment. If you can't do it in your booth or you can't do it in your place, then go into the woods, go onto a ski slope, go to a restaurant and really remember the feeling of what that is to be surrounded by it, because sometimes you need to remember, we forget. We have kinesthetic memory in our muscles, but sometimes we do forget.  28:55 - Anne (Host) And sometimes, when we get older, it's even easier to forget. Speak for yourself, speak for yourself. I can't remember what I came in for this morning. Oh wait, we're recording the VO Boss episode.  29:06 - Lau (Guest) We're doing a podcast, we're doing a podcast.  29:08 - Anne (Host) I remember, I can't forget that. But anyway, what a great conversation.  29:12 - Lau (Guest) This is so good, good stuff, it's so necessary yeah.  29:15 - Anne (Host) Bosses. So get yourself in your box. Uh, learn to disassociate those that do not serve you, those emotions that don't serve you, those moods that don't serve you, and then be able to evolve the moods that serve the copy. Yes, love it and get. And, whatever you do, get into the mood. Yeah, there you go. I'm in the mood. I'm in the mood. All right, bosses, big shout out to ipdtl, which got me in the mood this morning. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week, an amazing mood-filled week, and we will see you next week.  29:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye.  29:54 - Lau (Guest) See you next week.  29:56 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere share decades of combined experience in this insightful episode, dedicated to the long view of a voice acting career. Having been in the industry since the cassette and CD demo era, the hosts emphasize that longevity is achieved not through linear steps, but through resilience, strategic adaptation, and continuous self-improvement. The discussion provides a candid look at why the work never stops, the necessity of community, and the critical importance of mastering the mental game.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:41 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only illustrious Mr Tom Dheere, real Boss.  00:54 - Tom (Host) Hi everybody, hi Anne hey.  00:56 - Anne (Host) Tom, how are?  00:57 - Tom (Host) you. I'm doing pretty good, if I'm not mistaken, haven't you, didn't you just have an anniversary?  01:03 - Anne (Host) I did Just celebrated 25 years with my hubby whoa. It seems like yesterday. I swear to god, 25 years just went so fast that's amazing and uh, and you, just, you just were telling me about your blogiversary how long have you been blogging? 17 years oh my god, tom that blogging, I mean I've been blogging for a you been blogging 17 years. Oh my God, tom, blogging, I mean I've been blogging for a while, but blogging for 17 years is insane.  01:31 - Tom (Host) Thank you.  01:31 - Anne (Host) Wow, you must have really good SEO. That's all I got to say.  01:35 - Tom (Host) I would like to yeah. Yeah, my SEO is pretty good.  01:37 - Anne (Host) Yeah, we would like to think that you have good SEO, but, wow, so long term relationships. You know it makes me think about voiceover, because I have been in voiceover just about as long Not quite as long as I've been married to my husband, but you know, 21 years, and it's. It's incredible. I feel like I just started, but yet I don't, because it is and we always talk about it being a marathon, not a sprint and I think you've been in voiceover longer than me.  02:03 - Tom (Host) Yes, I decided I wanted to be a voice actor in 1994.  02:09 - Anne (Host) Wow yeah. And then I got my commercial demo. Some people were born in 1994.  02:14 - Tom (Host) Not me, I know.  02:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, some of my students haven't been born.  02:19 - Tom (Host) Some bosses listening to this are going to be like, I was born in 1994. I know, or 2004. And then I got my commercial demo in 1995 and I booked my first voiceover in 1996. And I went full time as a voice actor in 2005 and started coaching in 2011. So I've been-.  02:39 - Anne (Host) Oh, I started coaching just shortly before you. Yeah, yeah, just a little bit longer, because then we started coaching just shortly before you. Yeah, yeah, just a little bit longer, because then because we met shortly thereafter at Voice 2012.  02:49 - Tom (Host) Oh my goodness, we already knew each other, but I don't think we met.  02:52 - Anne (Host) Yeah, but I remember we.  02:54 - Tom (Host) I definitely remember we hung out at Voice 2012, which was 13 years ago. Oh my gosh.  02:59 - Anne (Host) Woo At Disneyland. You know so and it's funny because we talk about you know how long have you been in voiceover and how long did it take you to become successful in voiceover? Well, I always say you know, my overnight success took many, many years. So I think and I think it's something that a lot of people don't understand, especially those that are intrigued by this industry you know thinking that, oh yeah, it's, I can stay at home, I can do this. You know thinking that, oh yeah, it's, I can stay at home, I can do this. You know, I can buy the mic. It'll cost me a few hundred dollars and then I can just start booking jobs and making money.  03:32 And I think really for I know we talk about all the time, but I think I want to have a whole episode dedicated to the realities of having a long view career and the fact that it is something that you have to be in for the long run if you truly want to be successful at it. I mean, of course, you could be in it for a couple of years and then, if you don't like it, you get out. But most people I know want to make a good, they want to be successful at it, they want to make a good living. So let's talk about what it's like to be in voiceover for a long time and what it looks like, because it's certainly not like a corporate job. I am a corporate girl and came from corporate and then education, and I certainly was not handed a paycheck every other week in this full-time voiceover job. That's for sure, because it's a much different, much different industry. It's our own businesses.  04:22 - Tom (Host) I have the luxury of being able to zoom out and look at 30 years of being in the voiceover business, where when I started, you know, they just segued out of reel to reels and started using plastic cassette tapes. So I'm of the cassette tape generation of voice actors that started in the mid 90s and now we are. I was CDs, you were CDs, so you were, just I was CDs.  04:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah, shortly after the cassettes came the CDs.  04:53 - Tom (Host) Just as CDs came out and then, a few years after the CDs, came the MP3.  04:57 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and it was a thing, because I remember the burning of the CDs was like, oh God, who do I get to do that for me?  05:03 - Tom (Host) I did it myself.  05:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, well, that was before. Right CD burners came out and now you know you can have a CD. I had a duplication company that I did all my cassettes through and then started doing the CDs.  05:14 - Tom (Host) There, you go and then I was like wait a minute.  05:20 - Anne (Host) I can print my own labels.  05:21 - Tom (Host) using Avery, I can burn my own CDs, stick it in the tray and my desktop.  05:25 - Anne (Host) I was one of those people. I got that. The stamp thing where you push it down, you stamp your label on the CD and that was like, oh my gosh.  05:33 - Tom (Host) Oh, now I feel old. Now we're getting really anachronistic and alienating ourselves.  05:37 - Anne (Host) That was like. That was like that. That was the coolest. That was the peas knees.  05:40 - Tom (Host) That was kind of fun.  05:42 - Anne (Host) I love that little stamper. That was awesome, it was.  05:46 - Tom (Host) But anyway, so, yeah, so looking back and zooming out and looking at what are the realities of what you need to have a long VO career, I mean it starts with training. It absolutely starts with training. I'm a theater-trained actor. I went to college and then I did a little graduate work at a place called the National Shakespeare Conservatory that used to be here in New York City. So I got like hardcore theater training about body and mind and spirit and voice and engaging. I had great voice coaches, I had ballet coach, chekhov coach, like all this stuff. That really gave me a very, very, very solid, solid foundation. Gave me a very, very, very solid, solid foundation. So if you want so the so step one. If you want longevity in the voiceover industry, if you want a long career, you got to start with very solid training performance training, voiceover training, genre training, so you can be demo ready.  06:38 - Anne (Host) I didn't realize you you had been a theater trained. Yes, I did. How did I not know that about you, Tom? And I know I've known you for a long time it doesn't come.  06:45 - Tom (Host) I mean, it was so long ago, Wow.  06:47 - Anne (Host) Do you miss it? Do you still do it or do you miss it?  06:50 - Tom (Host) No, I haven't been on a stage in almost 25 years. When I discovered voiceover after I dropped out of the conservatory for reasons we will not get into as soon as I discovered voiceover I was like, oh, that's where I need to be and that's where, also, I can take all of that training that I did on stage and I had a little bit of on camera. I had a little bit of TV and a little bit of film experience very, very little bit like extra work on 30 Rock and things like that.  07:25 You know that's that sort of that. You know if you blink you'll miss me, that sort of thing. But that turned into that inhabited me. As I'll put it to you this way, that sort of training, theater training, it's like pro wrestling, like it's large gestures, projecting, you know, into an audience and then voiceovers is is boxing. It's very, it's very intimate and it's very, it's very, very close.  07:51 Um, so that all that great theater training, I had to obviously learn to make adjustments and turn from this very open, broad presentation, presentational type of acting to this very intimate, one-on-one, you know, doing this, this kind of acting. And I use that training, consciously or unconsciously, every every day, 30 years later, but, like I, I definitely attribute a big, I credit a large part of my longevity as a voice actor to the performance training that I got and I had a great voiceover coach uh, who's no longer, who's with us Um, she really set me on the path to understanding the difference between theater acting and film acting and voice, voice acting, and you know it gave me all kinds of exercises and stuff and you know I recorded. I still have the cassette demo to this day. Um, but that training I still have it. Uh, I whip it out once in a while on a, on a, on a at a conference or something.  08:48 I'll be like check it out once in a while at a conference or something. I'll be like check it out and people are like, oh my god, is that a what's? And then the Gen Z's are like what's a J card? What look?  08:55 - Anne (Host) it up if you don't know what it is in those 30 years, though, would you say that there's been like, okay, so I do this, and then I get to this level, and then this is what I do. Next, is it like a to this level, and then this is what I do next?  09:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Is it like a? You know, one of the?  09:08 - Anne (Host) steps to attaining and achieving that voiceover career.  09:14 - Tom (Host) That's a great question. First off, there are no levels, there are no steps. It never gets any easier, it just turns into different types of hard.  09:22 - Anne (Host) Ah, that we can just go home now, because that I think that sums it up in a nutshell, because it is so not a linear climb. It is not, but it's something that I think that you know over time. That's why I think you have to be in it for a long time, right, so you can adjust, you can evolve, you can work with it and understand it and somewhat predict it. I don't know.  09:45 - Tom (Host) Not predictable. Oh, I wish I could predict it.  09:48 - Anne (Host) But maybe a little bit. You can make it more predictable in certain ways, right? Yes, you can. Yeah.  09:53 - Tom (Host) Yeah, Absolutely Understanding how the industry ebbs and flows understanding trends, keeping up with performance trends, keeping up with technology trends. That's a big part of the realities of a long VO career, but but yeah, let yeah. I definitely want to drive home the point that there is no linear like do this, do this, do this successful? That's not. That's not how it works. You got to get your training, you got to get a website, you got to get demos produced, you got to set up a home recording studio. Those are your pillars.  10:35 - Anne (Host) And even the intricacies of that. Changes. I think you have to have, I think what's pillars, and even the intricacies of that. Changes have a down or a lull in your business and you question everything you've ever like. You know what got you into it in the first place. You're like, oh my gosh, I don't belong here, should I? I mean, there's so many things that happen during a lull in your business because it makes you question am I good enough? Am I valid, am I to be a success in this industry? Should I just quit? Should I give it up? Should I not have quit my job? And so there's so many things that get in the way of evolving and growing in your career.  11:17 And again, this is not a linear growth. It's ups, it's downs, and sometimes you can be like, oh, I just booked that gig, and then things are amazing for a while. But then you're like, okay. Sometimes you can be like, oh, I just booked that gig, and then things are amazing for a while, but then you're like, ok, so I should be able to book the other gig, I should be able to book a gig a week now. And then you say, ok, my goal is to book 10 jobs every week. Did you ever try that? Because I tried that a long time ago. Oh, I'm going to book.  11:44 - Tom (Host) My goal is to book 10 jobs a week. I had a very specific thing to that end, which is, I thought for a very long time I needed three very specific sources of voiceover income to be successful and consistent and sustainable on an income level. One was with a regular client that I was making well over $10,000 a year with for a number of years. One was Voice123 as a source of online casting, a source of auditions and bookings, and then I was just that elusive third source and I was saying that for years and years and years and my career has evolved and gone up and down and all around that I don't think that way anymore, because what's interesting is that client that was paying me well over $10,000 for many, many years, who I still work with to this day. I've worked with them since 1997. I now book one or two clients, one or two gigs a year with them, because their business model changed and the industry of their genre changed, so therefore my relationship with them changed.  12:51 I'm still on Voice123 making great money, and there's so many factors too.  12:57 - Anne (Host) So many factors to that and I love that because it's not just about you and your skill set and your skill level. The industry changes because our clients change. Their industries change right, their jobs change. Our relationships change with the people that some people come and go from jobs, and especially when you're talking about the repeat client or clients that you've had for years, which are great, they're wonderful, they're one of the more predictable things in this industry that you can count on, but then again, you know, don't count on them all together because tomorrow they could be gone.  13:33 - Tom (Host) Right, and as you were talking, I just had a revelation.  13:37 - Anne (Host) Ah Okay. Will you disclose the revelation, Tom? Oh, no, I'm going to share.  13:42 - Tom (Host) No, I'm going to leave and run away and write a book.  13:44 - Anne (Host) No, let's go. I must go now. No revolution share.  13:47 - Tom (Host) No, I'm going to leave and run away and write a book. No, let's go, I must go now. No revolution, no, no, no, no, no. So this is one thing I've realized In the past 25 years or so of me being a voice actor roughly 50% of my voiceover income has come through e-learning, explainer, corporate, industrial, medical. That's been roughly 50% of my income this whole time, almost since the beginning.  14:10 - Anne (Host) So that's been stable.  14:11 - Tom (Host) Yes, but what hasn't been stable is the other 50%. We're talking purely on a genre level. On a genre basis On a genre level, well yay corporate explainer e-learning. Right.  14:26 - Anne (Host) All my stuff too, no-transcript.  14:50 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it's interesting because now that I'm kind of thinking through the evolution of what the other 50% has been and the other 50% hasn't been all one other genre but it's been a combination of other genres but I would say, for the first third of that years, a big part of that years, that other third was that part a big part of that other 50 was commercial. But then around from 2011, basically for like roughly 2011, and for another 10 years it turned into audiobooks, that which a big, the lion's share of that other 50 was audiobook narration, and now what a big chunk of it is is political. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so things change.  15:31 - Anne (Host) Mine is more. Yeah, I'm going to say mine is more heavier on the e-learning, just because it's what I enjoy doing E-learning, corporate explainer, all of that side. 30% commercial, but again that's the one that is super volatile, the commercial genre aspect of it. And audiobooks. I did one and I said uh-uh and I was no longer going to pursue that, and then I had other areas of my business that I found to be interesting, which obviously VO Boss was one of those. Vo Peeps was another thing and those were alternate sources of income.  16:03 But when you talk about just voiceover, the real steady part has been the size of the market in the non-broadcast long format narration genres, and I always tell people like it's just a huge market that is always needing voiceover.  16:21 And for me that's just kind of where I live, because I love it number one and I find it to be challenging intellectually and also creatively, and so that's where I choose to spend my time, pursuing income and pursuing jobs in those genres. In terms of ups and downs, yes, but there's ups and downs in those genres as well because, again, you're still trying to find the client, you're trying to, you're trying to be able to, to get the client's attention. Yes, right, I mean there's, there's. It can be a huge market, but if they don't know, you're out there, right. And then part of that is the let's try to get their attention to say, hey, I'm out here, you can hire me for that voiceover, let me audition for you, I'm available, you know I'm reliable and that sort of thing. So that's, that's got to be like a big portion of the consistency, like resilient. Being resilient and consistent I think is so important in having a long term career in this industry, resiliency and consistency.  17:26 So at the beginning- Resilient, resilient, resilient, right here on my arm.  17:29 - Tom (Host) Oh, look at that.  17:29 - Anne (Host) Resilience. Yes, resilience is on my arm, so-.  17:32 - Tom (Host) Oh, that's, I didn't know. I never noticed that.  17:34 - Anne (Host) That's crazy yeah it is definitely a plus.  17:38 - Tom (Host) So as a just a very brief recap, and then keep going, the realities of long VO career. We said training at the beginning and then I talked about genre stability working in stable genres, and then when you're talking about consistency and resilience. But you touched upon something which is also the next part of it is adapting to the realities of marketing strategies, because marketing strategies, the realities of marketing strategies.  18:06 Yeah, oh my gosh. Yes, Because marketing strategies, the effectiveness of marketing strategies, changes through the years. What worked five years ago doesn't necessarily work anymore, and what didn't work or didn't exist five years ago as a marketing strategy may be a critical part of your marketing strategies and tactics.  18:24 - Anne (Host) And see well, performance too has evolved over the years, Not quite as drastic as marketing strategies and tactics. And see well, performance too has evolved over the years, Not quite as drastic as marketing.  18:31 - Tom (Host) Performance demands evolve, Genres rise and fall and grow and ebb and flow and marketing strategies. All of this stuff evolves and changes and some stuff becomes obsolete and some stuff becomes like if you're not doing it now, you may not have a career, and then five years from now, it's going to, it's going to change on you.  18:50 - Anne (Host) And when I think about like longevity right, I think about a lot of people will be like burnout, you know, is there burnout or is there just, you know, fatigue in the actual work that's involved in running a business? I think there's think there's two different things, right. I personally feel I mean, unless you've been in it for a while and you're really like I'm gonna give this a go, right, and I'm gonna audition a hundred times a day, then you experience fatigue or burnout. I can see that for sure, because I think there's more ways to really move forward than just the auditioning on a daily basis. There's so many other things you can do in terms of marketing and business, right.  19:28 But I feel like just being consistent and being out there, because a lot of times I talk about when do clients buy? We are at the mercy of the clients needing our services. Really, we are at the mercy of the clients buying or needing our services number one, and then purchasing our services, and so, unless that need exists, right, it's hard. It's like we have to just be patient and we have to be resilient and we have to be consistent in our marketing and we also have to make sure that we're consistent in our skill set right and that we are not falling into something that we're educating ourselves along skill set right and that we are not falling into something that we're educating ourselves along the way, so that if somebody is asking for a conversational read, when the script is not written conversationally but yet we're still reading it, you know, in a way that sounds like this is what they want to hear, versus you acting, you know, and that's easy to fall into.  20:22 It's very easy to fall into that. I deal with that all the time because I teach long format narration, because you can keep somebody's attention for a sentence. But talk about keeping somebody's attention for, you know, five minutes or 10 minutes or an hour right, how are you doing that effectively, especially in today's world where you know I can barely like, I can't sit through a sitcom without scroll. You know, scrolling on barely like.  20:43 - Tom (Host) I can't sit through a sitcom without scrolling on my phone. Yeah Right, no, it's definitely a challenge and that's why continuing education with great coaches like Anne not to blatantly plug too much, Because Anne who is also a narrator, who is booking work regularly, who is reading casting notices and auditioning for stuff regularly work regularly? Who is reading casting notices and auditioning for stuff regularly? Who's?  21:05 I'm assuming you're having conversations in some capacity with your representation, you know and making cold calls and emails, and doing blog posts and social media and shooting videos. Yeah, there's so much to it, right?  21:15 - Anne (Host) There's so much more than just the audition and and I did want to just want to finish my thought on like I was talking about like, is it fatigue because you're doing 100 auditions a day, or is it burnout?  21:26 I'll be quite honest with you, I don't think the majority of people that get into this industry know how much work it takes To be quite honest, know how much work it takes to actually be successful and to do this for long term. And the people that have stuck it out, they get it, I mean, and that just becomes part of their part of their strategy, part of their resilience. And, honestly, I think a lot of people they don't give it enough of a chance and they quit before they've put in the actual work. So I don't think there's burnout, to be honest, unless you're talking about people who've been at it for 20 years, right, and they're just burnt out. But in the beginning I don't think you find people with burnout because I don't think they realize just how much work it takes and I say that one more time, tom they do not realize how much work it takes and even today for me, right, and you, it takes a lot of work.  22:17 - Tom (Host) Yeah, I mean I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. A couple years ago someone booked a free 15 minute consult with me and I'm like sure what's going on. They're like I've booked, I've done all these auditions and I just can't seem to book anything. And I'm like well, how many have you done? 40?  22:33 - Anne (Host) Yes, exactly.  22:37 - Tom (Host) And I'm such a jerk I went oh, I'm so sorry, just like I did and I apologize profusely. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I really don't mean to laugh, but you need to put two zeros on the end of that before you can really. Exactly, he was very he's like okay, thanks for your time, and he pretty much hung up on me. He was very upset and I feel bad to this day. I hope he's a successful voice actor right now. I felt really bad about that.  23:06 - Anne (Host) It's funny because people, yeah, I will say that it's kind of like the old thing, like when you invite 100 people to a party, how many people show up? Right, there's a small small percentage. Right? If you do auditions, how many? If you book how many percent of those auditions? Right, and Tom, that's something you can go back to your spreadsheet. I don't have a spreadsheet.  23:25 - Tom (Host) I did have a spreadsheet before.  23:26 - Anne (Host) I know you've got the numbers and so you could say it's a lower percentage than people think they think oh, I auditioned for 100. I should be able to book 50.  23:34 - Tom (Host) No, take a zero off of that.  23:35 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly Exactly, it is in the 1% to 2% to 3%.  23:40 - Tom (Host) If you're booking 5% of your auditions, you're doing amazing.  23:43 - Anne (Host) Oh, that's amazing. And that's even if you've been in the industry for 20 years. Yeah, exactly.  23:48 - Tom (Host) And also that percentage will go up and down based on whether the auditions are coming through your representation, which there may be a lot less people auditioning for it, or if it's coming through an online casting site, especially if it's like a free online casting site, like if you're on Casting Call Club or something where literally thousands of people are auditioning, you know or if it's through your self-marketing strategies, where you're one of a handful of people with of your demographic on some production company's roster and you're one of three or four people that are auditioning. So the percentages will go up and down. But if you average the whole thing out, yeah, if you're doing 5%, you're doing really, really well.  24:23 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I'm going to say, I'm going to say a big part of that again, it runs into this whole mindset. That I think is a huge part of success in long-term success is mindset Because, again in the beginning, when you're like, oh my gosh, i've've auditioned 40 times and I didn't get anything, or I auditioned 100 times, you know what I mean? I got a short list and so that whole thing in the very beginning of my career myself, right was hard. I had to fight through it. I had to fight, I had to make sure that I was like no, no, no, no. I am confident in my skills, I'm confident that I can do this, and I think that your mental mindset has a lot to do with your success and in sticking it out right Again and pushing through the lean times, pushing through the times where even you know I did a great audition, I could have been the perfect voice, yet I still did not get the job, understanding that people cast for many different reasons. It's not all to do with your skill or performance.  25:28 - Tom (Host) I agree. I need to make one more very important point, which is the reason why I'm able to still be in the voiceover industry, because there was a time when my income was fluctuating wildly and then kind of downshifted. This is one thing. That this is, bosses. If there's one thing I want you to take away from this conversation, it's this. It's that decision makers they make decisions in certain ways over who they're going to cast, why they're going to cast them and how they're going to cast them. That changes over time. So in the 90s there were no online casting sites. It was agents. So either you had an agent or you didn't. And self-marketing I was making in the 90s I was making 50 cold calls a day. A lot of people didn't really even have email.  26:22 Nobody knew what that was, so the decision makers in the 90s right were agents and managers which I didn't get representation for a very long time.  26:30 - Anne (Host) I didn't get my first quality, consistent rep until 2005. Yep, yep. I think it was 2006. Before that, it was 2006.  26:37 - Tom (Host) Okay, and then you know, and then it evolved into email, so I'll put it. So it's like this You're a voice seeker, you're a decision maker and you're looking in this direction and saying this is how I decide, this is how I cast voice actors. They've got these horse blinders on. This is the point where they're facing. You need to be right there in their view, being like how you doing With your demos in their hand, with the marketing and whatever, but there's going to come a point and this happens for almost all of them that at some point they're going to be like nope, this is how I make voiceover decisions now.  27:10 This is how I cast Often, and in the early 2000s to this day it's shifted where now they're looking at online casting sites. So if the view of the decision makers goes from here and it moves in the spot, let's say it's a spotlight. If that spotlight goes over here and you're not in that spotlight, they're not booking you. You need to go from there to there to be like how you doing? Because now the spotlight's shining on you, because this is where they're making decisions on how to cast, and then it'll shift again. And it'll shift again. Agents, managers, casting directors, free casting sites, pay-to-play casting sites, self-marketing strategies indirect and indirect and AI.  27:53 - Anne (Host) And I always think, like we are so isolated in our booths, right, and we're auditioning, we're like, but I've got the skillset, but I'm not getting the work right, or whatever mindset tricks you're playing on yourself. You still cannot forget that our profession is guided by the clients who hire us. Right, they're decision makers, Like, what is like, where are they hiring? How are they hiring, is it? You know? They're busy people, we're busy people.  28:21 I mean I would say that life, the pacing of this life, just gets quicker and quicker and quicker, and so some of them still rely on talent agents or their agents or casting directors to help them make decisions. Some of them are like I just need to Google at the prompt and find someone. And it really depends on who is hiring us, really depends on who is hiring us. And don't forget to educate yourself and practice resilience and strategies to get to those people and understand why they hire us, why they may not hire us and how you can get in front of them. And I love that example of the spotlight, tom, because that just makes a whole lot of sense. You've got to be in their field of vision in order for that to happen, and there can be many reasons as to why you're not, but understanding and educating yourself and evolving along with the industry and being knowledgeable in more ways than just performance. There's a lot to be said for that.  29:13 Yeah, because you know what Cold calls worked, and then they don't work, and then emails work, and then they don't work, and then newsletters work, and then they don't work. And then emails come back a little bit, and then they work again. And then postcards work, and then newsletters work, and then they don't work back a little bit, and then they work again, and then postcards work, and then they don't work.  29:24 - Tom (Host) Yeah, exactly texting works, and then social media works, and then it doesn't work and then they go to a different social media platform that you were on exactly now.  29:31 - Anne (Host) They're tired of you know, like ai, they try ai and then they.  29:35 - Tom (Host) Then they get off of ai and you know it's, it never stops, which is why you make sure that and this is a big word and make sure that legacy thinking does not stagnate your voiceover career. Legacy thinking destroys careers.  29:50 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. You have to have a broader and you have to have a broader sense of the business of voiceover to really understand and have longevity. Now there's very few people who maybe started off in the beginning. They're super talented, they're in a big market, they've got a manager right or an agent that is going to bat for them, and so you know that's a different story, but I would say that's maybe less than 1% of the total voiceover population where that's happening.  30:20 Other than that, you have to be, have your eye on the ball, you have to have your eye, you have to be in that spotlight, as Tom says, that moving, rotating spotlight. You have to be educated about that spotlight and I'm going to say that good, I'm going to say trusted people in the industry that you are have a relationship with good coaches, good agents, good managers, and your community is so important to help you to be successful. It is an isolating job, right, this is such an isolated. We're in our booths, we're by ourselves, and I know that it was a big adjustment for me when I went full time into voiceover versus, you know, having my corporate job where I went to the office every day. I had kind of a social interaction with my colleagues and my you know my teammates. And now, all of a sudden, I'm by myself and I have myself and my thoughts Scary. And my thoughts can be scary sometimes, especially when I'm doubting right, why am I not booking Right? Why?  31:18 And those thoughts can be destructive in a successful voiceover career. So the mental part of it, the resilience, the strategizing, is, I think, almost well. You can't really have a career without having good performance skills and good business skills. But also, if your mental health is not there and your community is not there to support you, your loved ones aren't there to support you, your loved ones aren't there to support you and encourage you, it's going to be really hard because it's an isolating industry and you know, thank goodness for the conferences, right, and the little get-togethers that we can have. I mean, we're just, we're like hungry people when we go to conferences. We're all like you know, we can't get enough of each other right. Seeing each other after all this time and really that community is, I think, a big part of what can help you to be successful in a long-term voiceover career.  32:11 - Tom (Host) I think you're right, anne. I think that's one of the most important ingredients to a successful long-term career is to be a part of the community for education, for inspiration, for commiseration and for renewal of purpose.  32:23 - Anne (Host) Exactly, yeah. So, bosses, we are part of a community, so I encourage you to be a part of a community. Be a part of Tom's community and really we will get through this and 20 years from now, we will still be God willing, if the technology doesn't, God willing if the creek don't rise, as the old people say.  32:44 God willing, we will still be here. We'll still be here doing voiceover and the stuff that we love, or, even if it's not voiceover, it's something that we love and that we still have our community. And so, what a great conversation, guys. Keep going. A marathon, not a sprint. Keep going. We've got faith in you and we've got a community here that can support you. Tom and I are here, so, bosses, reach out if you need, and we've got you All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, bosses, and we'll see you next week.  33:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Billy Collura, a powerhouse agent with over 30 years at CESD New York. Billy shares his unique perspective on the dramatic evolution of the voice acting industry, from the early days of union-only radio spots to the current market dominated by non-union and digital opportunities. This conversation provides essential insight into the biggest voice acting trends that have shaped the industry and reveals the simple, authentic quality that makes a voice actor successful today. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO Boss here.  00:06 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO Boss. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:12 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:34 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit vobosscom slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:43 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Slash VIP-membership to sign up today. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:08 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome someone who truly defines what it means to be a powerhouse in the voiceover industry. With more than 30 years at CESD New York, Billy Collura has been at the forefront of commercials and beyond, representing talent with a direct and grounded approach that has earned him the trust of clients and voice actors alike. I think it's fair to say that he doesn't just follow the changes in the business. He really helps to shape them. So, Billy, I am so excited to have you here on the podcast.  01:44 - Billy (Host) Thank you for asking me. Yeah, this is so nice, yeah.  01:47 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it, and of course we're like on opposite coasts here, so you're on my home coast and so I do miss New York quite a bit and we did have a little.  01:58 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How often do you get out here, pardon me, do you get out here often?  02:00 - Billy (Host) Do you ever get out. You know what?  02:01 - Anne (Host) Not as often as I should. I really have now started to say I'm only coming out during the warm season because I'm done with the snow. Yeah, I hear you. But I would imagine like do you travel like elsewhere in the wintertime in New York, Because I know I stay here.  02:22 - Billy (Host) I travel a lot in general um during the course of the year, but um you know, I right now I'm upstate in well. I'm up in the Hudson Valley and in the city of Hudson, which is two hours North of Manhattan, so I go back and forth Um in the winter time. No, I'm usually, I don't know, I'm usually in the Northeast sometimes.  02:43 - Anne (Host) Okay, Are you a skier? Are you a skier? No, absolutely not, Absolutely not. That was, that was what a lot. What kept a lot of people on the East coast? Um, in my area anyways, they're like oh no, I have to be able to ski in the winter.  02:56 - Billy (Host) No, I don't like the cold.  02:57 - Anne (Host) Well, I have a. I have a mountaineer in California, Uh huh.  03:00 - Billy (Host) Uh-huh.  03:02 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh. Well, anyways, it's so nice to see you again. It's been a while. I saw you at VO Atlanta and I'm just really thrilled that I have the opportunity to talk to you. I know how busy you are, but I'm just so excited that the bosses are going to get this opportunity to really benefit from your wisdom. And so, benefiting from the wisdom speaking of that, you've been at CESD for over three decades. Um, that's, that's amazing. So how would you say that your role as an agent has evolved during that time?  03:37 - Billy (Host) Well, you know like it started when I started. Um, it'll be. Um, it'll be 32 years in May. Oh my gosh, when I started, voiceover was a smaller industry and I dabbled in a little bit of everything, okay.  03:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I did commercials.  03:57 - Billy (Host) There really wasn't. There was no internet back then. So we did radio and TV commercials and industrials and I'm not even sure cable was around when.  04:08 - Anne (Host) I started. I hear you. You know we didn't have computers, any of that.  04:13 - Billy (Host) So we did a little bit of everything. And then, you know, and promos, promos were a thing, and narration and trailers, and so, you know, we did a little bit of all of that. And then, as the industry kept getting bigger and bigger, we started specializing. And all of a sudden, in animation, I dabbled in gaming, but I also, you know, but pretty much my focus was commercials, because that's where the money is, you know, and that was the day where it was just, you know, it was just TV and radio, and you made the actors made a lot of money. Yeah, it was only union, we only worked on union jobs. And now fast forward to now, where 60% to 70% of my desk is non-union. We started doing non-union in 2019. Okay, the union opportunities have pretty much dried up, and I say that, but it's ebb and flow.  05:22 I mean right now this year it was a slow summer for some reason. It was like the old days, it was really slow and I mean that union and non-union. And then I go away on vacation and it just like exploded while I was away and I've been and since then I've been playing catch up and it's been so busy with union, lots of union stuff with non union. Yeah, so it's been great there.  05:49 Yeah. So I mean that's changed and I guess for me what's changed for me is because now I specialize much more on commercials. I do have a few non-union accounts, but I have my large union study accounts, steady accounts. Um, so most of my work, uh is you know, is in the commercial world. I also happen to handle the audio books, but I always say I'm not an audio book agent. I'm the agent at CESD that handles the audio books.  06:18 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So it's a little difference.  06:20 - Billy (Host) Um so, but the audio book, what I do love about it. You know an an an agent who left um cause she was having. She got married and had babies and she said, take the audio books. They're the nicest people in the world. And I got to say they really are, and so I've kept it.  06:36 I love it. The people are so nice. Um, I really, really enjoy it. So that you know, so I I've been doing that. I also do ADR and loop group stuff, again very specialized, and there really aren't a lot of industrials. Now I know some of the other. I'm one of five, six agents in the department and then there's another two agents that work with agencies that cater to medical industrials.  07:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So they're doing I don't do personally.  07:05 - Billy (Host) I don't do a lot of industrials. I think a lot of the industrials have gone to the pay-to-play sites, so but the union stuff, the medical ones, they are still at the big agencies. I just personally don't happen to have those. I would say maybe the commercial aspect of right Healthcare like pharmaceuticals and that sort of thing is huge and more and more of those blue chip companies are going non-union and those rates are you know.  07:34 - Anne (Host) Sure. What do you attribute that? Why is that happening? What do?  07:39 - Billy (Host) you attribute it to is when it started, when digital work started happening, and these great companies, the Droga5s and there was so many, that's just the first one they were doing great work with the digital work. You know, they were just with stuff before even streaming, when they were just doing they were making commercials for digital work and they were doing fine work. They were doing really good work and these companies, these blue chip companies, were saying, hey, you did that for this much money, why don't you just take all of our network stuff? And that's how I remember, like 10, 12 years ago, a large fast food chain started going, you know, went totally non-union. And then the large fast food chain started going, went totally non-union.  08:25 Then there would be some that because they had a celebrity voice on certain spots, and then they would get a third party and more and more I feel like these agencies, these digital agencies, just kept getting better and better at it and the actors were getting better and better at it. And it's not like the cable stations that you see up here that you know these infomercial things that you know that you can tell it's non-union. You know I've fallen and I can't get up kind of stuff. These. They're doing great work.  08:56 - Anne (Host) I can't tell, are they doing great work because they have great actors or are they doing great work because the entire production value of it?  09:05 - Billy (Host) Yes.  09:06 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, you know, people are getting better at it.  09:09 - Billy (Host) The voiceover people certainly, and it's not even I mean the voiceover so many people. Covid just changed the game and everybody you know voiceover was the one business in town that didn't shut down during.  09:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) COVID.  09:24 - Anne (Host) And every I always say every jaboni with a mic, you know, just set up a studio at home and said I'm going to do voiceover, and not only you know they were well-established Broadway and TV and film you know everybody was doing it and that's and that's so interesting because I would say the majority of people that you know cause I was I was super busy coaching during COVID and I just had so many people that just wanted to like make the demos and get into the industry. But I had a lot more of the talent that were more beginner right to intermediate. But I would imagine that with COVID, with celebrities right them wanting to get into voiceover because what else was there? Because they weren't able to go into a studio, and so I would say that a good portion of that, I would say a good portion of people that were getting those jobs, were probably the celebrities right.  10:27 - Billy (Host) Absolutely coaching. You know they just kept getting better and better at it. And you know, and, and we're willing to work for low wages, I mean that's the other thing. And you know we always say somebody takes a job for $100. You know it's just a race to the bottom. Yeah, you know, if you're gonna add, because you know we don't work on the non union stuff, we don't work on the non-union stuff, we don't work on certain things. I won't work on stuff just because it's not worth my time.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Sure.  10:49 - Billy (Host) And I don't mean to be like, oh, but $250 is a lot to some people. Oh yeah, for all the work that I have to go into it, for me to do it and have my assistant do it and doing the editing to maybe get it, it's just not worth it. But I do. I mean that's usually. My threshold is 250.  11:10 - Anne (Host) And I understand that because I always tell people, because I do a lot of non-broadcast narration, coaching and demos, and I'm always telling people they're like, well, I want an agent. I'm like, well, an agent doesn't get excited about non-broadcast stuff because it's a one and done thing. You don't make your money on that, and so typically you want to have a tip top commercial demo because that's where they're going to be making their money with the residuals and and that sort of a thing. So would you do? You think it has to do with the sheer volume of people that got into voiceover as well. If you've got enough, you know, if you throw spaghetti against the wall right there, some of them will stick. And so then I started to drive down. I'm going to say it started to drive down maybe the prices, uh, or people willing to do the work for less, because it just got to be competitive.  11:56 - Billy (Host) It did.  11:57 There's so many people doing it now, so many people, and especially in the non-union world, there's so many opportunities out there and you know, with the pay to plays and I've kind of changed my tune a little on the pay to plays and I kind of see they're there for a reason. They're a great, you know, tool for learning, for getting the experience, for the auditioning. And I and I learned recently when I was at a conference in Holland and met the CEO from Voices 123. And I learned that they love to put people together and to put the actor and the company together. Take it off the platform and do your thing.  12:41 They don't want to micromanage, like there are other pay-to-plays that micromanage everything.  12:45 But I really found that you know, oh, that's really nice, and then people can make money that way. They're not interested, they're just interested in making the match. So, but, that being said, there are so many people that are doing this now and, yeah, driving down the prices because you know, they may be this may not be their full-time gig, it just may be a side hustle for them. So, yeah, sure, an extra $200, an extra $100, an extra $350. That can accumulate. But unfortunately then they're like well, you did it last time for $100. Why can't you? So it's hard, it's hard.  13:21 - Anne (Host) It is, but would you say that the amount of jobs is diminishing or no, it's just as volume you know, I don't see volume as normal.  13:33 - Billy (Host) I'm busy, you know, but I don't know, like, like I said, this summer was slow with the opportunities, with the, with the auditions. I find that my casting directors, my union casting, just my casting directors in general, um, they, you know, I have some that are busier than others, some I will hear from, you know, once every other month, and then some I will hear from three or four times a week. You know, um, so it's and it's all you know. There's no logic to it.  14:03 - Anne (Host) And then on the um isn't that the truth. Yeah, and then um after all these years, wouldn't you think like you could? You could predict, you know.  14:14 - Billy (Host) I would say to actors you know, I'm not booking, it's just one phone call, it's one job, don't forget. They're only picking one person, but yeah, yeah, picking one person. You, yeah, you know, only picking one person you know and you don't know.  14:25 - Anne (Host) That's a way to put it in perspective. Actually, if you think about it, but in 400,.  14:30 - Billy (Host) You know how many people are auditioning.  14:31 That's why with select VO. You know that only allows you X amount of people to submit. So if they, if the agency says, if they invite you and they say you can only submit three people per role, they won't let you submit a fourth person. So you really have to be smart and we're not the type of agency that will send you know to ten people and then, sophie's Choice, the three that I want. You know, I don't believe in that. I don't. I feel it's a waste of time of the actor. It's certainly a waste of time for my assistant and for me to have to listen to, then you have to listen to them Exactly.  15:10 - Anne (Host) What's the point, you know, and so that translates to me to a good relationship with everybody that's on your roster, absolutely, that that knowledge of their capabilities and you can communicate, uh, back and forth to make sure that the two of you are are, you know, keeping up with one another, and you would be the one that say, okay, I'm going to handpick this audition and send this to this many people, because you're the one that has to do the work right To send it the top three, to the. So the client.  15:43 - Billy (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. It's my reputation and there are some casting directors that you know they will.  15:48 I will submit a list and they will pick who they want to hear you know, back up, if I lose, or if we lose somebody, who else would you like? Or, you know, sometimes they'll say these are the three I want to hear. Send me one of your choice that maybe I, somebody, I don't know, um, and then there are certain casting directors that will micromanage and they have to. They, you know they will only see these people and they're, you know, not flexible. But it just kind of makes me a better agent.  16:14 - Anne (Host) That's why we're.  16:15 - Billy (Host) Cesd is an exclusive agency. We don't oversign in the union or non-union world. We're still building up our non-union roster. You know we're still doing that, but that's where we have the most amount of opportunities. You know, in the non-union world, Sure, Plain and simple.  16:34 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. So what would you say after all these years? What's kept you loving your job?  16:42 - Billy (Host) Because it's different every day. You know, that's the— that's the thing. I never know what's ahead of me. So I, you know, I just love. Every day there's some, there's a new challenge, there's something new. Also, recently I have a new assistant who I adore and I love teaching him. He's a little sponge and he wants to learn.  17:09 And so that kind of inspires me to want to teach him, and you know so that that is. I guess that's the difference, and also being able to, because the business has changed. Remotely, you know, I can start earlier, I'm not in the office, I I can work later, you know. It just kind of like the whole. It's such I don't want to say a relaxed, but I feel I feel more relaxed Now. It could be because I've been doing this for a hundred years, but I just feel relaxed, I enjoy what I do. I don't feel the pressure. I don't feel like there's no such thing as a voiceover emergency If somebody screws up or, you know, if I've given you know there's no such thing.  17:51 - Anne (Host) Bravo to that. I always say there's never a VO emergency.  17:54 - Billy (Host) No, there's never a first you know, if something went wrong, don't freak out. How?  17:59 - Anne (Host) do we fix it? How do we?  18:00 - Billy (Host) fix it, that's all you know.  18:02 - Anne (Host) Now, that's from your perspective. What about your client, your casting director? Your client's perspective? Are there VO emergencies? Yeah, there could be, that's on them, not on me. Yeah, okay, I love that.  18:13 - Billy (Host) I don't, you know, I wanna help fix the problem, you know, sure so. And I mean, yeah, you know, it's always something. Fortunately I haven't had any of those emergencies in a while. But you know, the other night I was it was nine o'clock my time and an LA. It was an LA agency booking a client. She happened to be on the West coast, so it worked out okay, but it was nine 30. And I was like you know, I'm old, I can't stay up. And then I thought, and I got a text from the casting director she goes we want to book so-and-so. I left all the information on the email. So I was like, oh well, I have to finish Gilded Age, this episode, and then, as soon as I'm done, I will get on my computer.  18:56 - Anne (Host) I love it, that's great?  18:59 - Billy (Host) I guess yeah. So that's what keeps me going. The relationship with my clients, I don't. It's different because back in the day, actors used to come into the office to audition. West Coast was different because you guys were MP3ing long before, because you all wouldn't get in a car and drive a half hour to the studio.  19:20 - Anne (Host) But in New York, well, because of the traffic.  19:24 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah, and that's why you couldn't get to three auditions back in the day, but it was our job in New York to get you, you know, to get you from the Upper West Side down to Wall.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Street over to Midtown yeah, I know so many voice actors who still um go into studios to audition in New York. I mean, I almost don't hear about it anymore, except for well, I'm sorry, excuse me to go into the go on for booking.  19:48 - Billy (Host) No for bookings, they will.  19:49 - Anne (Host) They encourage that now but I have heard people in the last couple of years. I mean it's not every day, but sometimes they are going in. I don't know if it's to audition or if it's to actually do the job it's usually you know there's one or two the studios.  20:03 - Billy (Host) You know a couple of the studios that do auditioning, because that's what changed? Oh, okay, that makes sense, like all the advertising agencies that were in-house casting directors and those casting directors ended up going to the studios in New York and they have in-house casting directors, so they will encourage the Sonic Unions. The. Headrooms the Sound Lounges they will encourage hey, if the client is local to New York, boom, have them come in. Oh, that makes sense. And it kind of opened up because not everybody got SourceConnect especially our older clients.  20:40 It wasn't cost effective for them for that one audition every other month. It wasn't so the foreign language people, they weren't getting it because there weren't enough opportunities. But especially I I want to say the older clients they really weren't getting so this kind of opened up. If you lived in New York you could still send an MP3 and you're able to go to Sound Lounge for the booking that was always that's always a nice caveat.  21:06 - Anne (Host) So I'm sure people ask you this all the time. Commercial voiceover has changed, evolved over the years. Advertisers have changed how they buy and consumers have changed, I think, how they listen. What would you say is what sort of things have changed in terms of trends for commercial VO? What are you looking for now that maybe is different than what was relevant maybe five, even five or 10 years ago, Because I know probably you're going to say like 30 years ago it was more of that announcer sort of style, it was promo. But you know, maybe five, 10 years ago, what has changed?  21:43 - Billy (Host) You know, it was the, you know, when I first started. It was the time, when, you know, Demi Moore started with Keds and there was that raspy, damaged sound that has kind of you know, demi Moore started with kids and she there was that raspy damage sound that has, kind of you know, was such a thing for so long and our and I know our women back then, you know, were the most successful.  22:04 - Anne (Host) I coveted that which is not a part of my genetic makeup at all. I'm like I can't, I can't get a raspy.  22:11 - Billy (Host) No, if you don't, you know you can't put oh, I woke up with a, you know, with a sore throat today. I sound great I should audition. No, you shouldn't. Exactly. So that was. You know, that was always the thing and yeah, it was the rough and tough announcers and you know all those, all those guys, and then that kind of went away and it was the John Corbett kind of sound and he was you.  22:31 he stuck around for a long time as a prototype and now it's Paul Rudd and Rashida Jones and then. So those trends kind of changed. But then about 10 years ago, everything you know really were, it was people of color. You know they wanted voices for actors and that really opened up a wide, you know a wider net. There was no general market anymore because they used to say, you know, they were very specific, we want a Caucasian voice. But now you only see that if you're doing a demo for the on-camera and the on-camera actor happens to be a certain color. But they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. Now, everybody, especially in the union world, they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. You know everybody, especially in the union world, they all want to check boxes. You know, yeah, yeah, they, yeah, so they, you know it's all ethnicities. You know we want non-binary people and I'm like what does a non-binary person sound?  23:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) like I don't, it took me you know.  23:29 - Billy (Host) Then I realized oh, they don't really, they're just checking off boxes, but for the, you know, for the African-American community, they were in vogue. They were, you know, I would get breakdowns, all ethnicities, and the prototypes would be Viola Davis, Tiffany Haddish and Angela.  23:49 Bassett, Do the math you know, so that was a thing. And Angela Bassett do the math. You know, so that was a thing. And I think you know, I still think that that is happening. But I'm finding a trend like that is kind of changing, where general market is truly general market. Now they want, you know, it's everybody, it's everything.  24:09 - Anne (Host) That's great. Yes, I love to hear that.  24:12 - Billy (Host) That's the way it should have been, but unfortunately it was so the other way for so long and then it shifted and now it's kind of evening out.  24:21 - Anne (Host) Sure.  24:21 - Billy (Host) Sure, I don't know.  24:23 - Anne (Host) Well, I mean, that's what I was thinking would happen at some point. Right, it would even out and it's kind of nice to hear that that's happening.  24:31 I mean, I wouldn't want it to go another extreme you know, at all, you know, and especially because the world's a little chaotic right now and I know that it's affecting companies and their advertising, and so that to me says gosh, I hope that there's still as much opportunity for everybody as there ever was. And so that's just one of those things where I think if there was a slow part of the season, maybe it's people, you know. I think there's companies trying to gauge like what's happening and what's going to be what's going to work for them in terms of advertising.  25:08 And it's not so much the voice, but the whole, the whole thing, yeah, the whole, all of it On camera, all of it, all of it. How are they going to advertise it to be effective?  25:18 - Billy (Host) And I think you know, and I think that and this is just me I feel like voice wise, I feel that the union world is more tries to check the boxes, much more than the non-union world.  25:32 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I truly than the non-union world.  25:33 - Billy (Host) I truly believe the non-union world they're gonna pick the best voice for the job, no matter what ethnicity you are.  25:41 I find, and I just because of the actors that I speak with, not only because I speak with my non-union actors in general so much more, just simply because there's so much opportunity there. But I notice, with my union actors I just don't A I don't really have that many opportunities for them. But you know it is. I speak to certain ones more, a lot more than the others. But I don't find that, I find it much broader in the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the, the non-union community and how. You know how different it is. I feel that it is much more I don't know how to say it. It's much more of a community, I feel.  26:27 I feel that they, they really are supportive of each other, they help each other. It's not as competitive or as petty competitive as it can sometimes be in the union world, it's just, and I think it's fabulous that they really everybody's out to help each other much more in that community.  26:52 - Anne (Host) Well, that's refreshing to hear. I like that from you, Absolutely. So then for you, for talent on your roster. What sort of qualities are you looking for in any talent that might appear on your roster? You know what's funny.  27:06 - Billy (Host) When I first started, you know, when COVID happened first thing, when I and I did a lot of these classes, first thing I was like, obviously the first thing was do you have SourceConnect? You know if?  27:17 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you have SourceConnect, because so few?  27:18 - Billy (Host) people did.  27:19 - Anne (Host) You went right to the top of my list.  27:22 - Billy (Host) Yeah, if you had SourceConnect, and then it's, you know, and then it's just about reading the copy, and that's the same basic thing is, how do you read copy? Some of my most successful people, my white actors over 40, I have a couple of them and they just read copy. So well, I don't know what it is, they just they're just, they're just great they were. And so, yeah, there's. You can't teach it, it's, you know, it's just natural. This one particular guy, yeah, does he have that Paul Rudd feel to him? Just that guy next door, just that real comfortable, relaxed, nothing pushed, that's how he is in life and that's how it comes across Right, right. Oh, there was something else.  28:06 Oh, I did this one class and there was this woman, you know, like late 20s white woman, and there was just something. I was on a panel, I was one of three people and, oh my God, she was. There was just something about her read that made me crazy and like the next day I was like I have, you know, I want to set you up. I love you, you know, I love you the best. And now, here we are. I love you, know, I love you the best, and now here we are, fast forward to probably a little more than a year. She is one of my most successful actresses on my roster. And what is it about her? I don't know. She's just fabulous. You know, she just, she just reads. It's just, it's honest.  28:50 - Anne (Host) So I'm always looking for that honest. I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like, with that honest, I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like how you know we've heard for for so long right, bring you to the party, bring you to the party, it's that. I think that's so important. And and we throw it around like, oh yeah, okay, I can bring me, but and yet so many people still try to perform, uh and and if they really can just stop in their own head and and just bring themselves to the party because, like you and I like talk like there's something about like I really like Billy, and it's, it's, it's like an intangible thing and it's your personality, right, it's, it's how we connect.  29:23 - Billy (Host) And I think that's what's so right away. The first time we met, we would just like exactly.  29:30 - Anne (Host) I think that's the same thing for voice actors. If you can, you know, if, if you've got a great personality and you're like one of those people that you can connect with right away, I mean that's what I think we're looking for, that authenticity it's you're not trying to, you know, push anything and and this is who you are and I love to hear that, because I keep telling people gosh, you are enough. I mean it really is. Please don't try to be anything other than yourself, because I really like you.  29:55 - Billy (Host) Yes, and so many voice actors. They forget that.  30:00 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you know this is acting and I said you know you got to get out of your head into your gut.  30:05 - Billy (Host) Whether you're selling peas for 99 cents, it doesn't matter. You have to be, you know, honest and authentic with it, so important. Now I have to ask the question authentic with it, so important?  30:14 - Anne (Host) Now I have to ask the question because you know probably everybody does. And what do you think about the threat of AI in the industry, and especially now that there's? It's not even just voice, it's on camera too.  30:27 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we keep our eye on it. We read every contract, we read every contract, we read every breakdown. You know SAG is doing their best. Bless their hearts.  30:42 You know, nava is you know, above and beyond, what they're doing with the rules and the legislation and what they're doing. You know it's coming, it's not going away and it's going to get better and better. So we just try to keep our eyes and ears on everything and try to follow the rules and say, nope, large deal right now. And there was a huge component with um. They wanted an AI replica and fortunately, the person um doing it was like no, I've heard replicas of my voice and they're not, and they never sound as good as the real thing.  31:27 - Anne (Host) Um, so that's a really interesting point because I know for a fact that that's true, because I, you know back in the day. Well, back a few years ago, I started really delving deep into that and researching companies and how they made voices, and I've heard a lot of voices and there are some people who are amazing actors but yet their voice doesn't translate. Well, either it's the AI technology that has not given, it's just it's not doing the right thing for them and, yeah, it doesn't translate.  31:56 - Billy (Host) Yeah, and he said no, I, I will not. It's my, it's my voice, it's my reputation, and I will be available whenever they need me. They were like well, what in case he's what? You know? What if he's away on vacation?  32:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, he said there are no VO emergencies. No, there are no VO emergencies, Right, there's no VO emergencies.  32:15 - Billy (Host) So yeah, so are we concerned about it? Yeah, am I concerned, absolutely, but you know I can't lose sleep over it.  32:23 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's coming.  32:24 - Billy (Host) You know, it's coming, and so we just have to manage it and make it work to our advantage.  32:30 - Anne (Host) Yes, I agree, I agree, I and make it work to our advantage. Yes, I agree, I agree, I love that. So I'm very excited because you're going to be doing a class for us, a VO Boss workshop, in November. As a matter of fact, it's going to be November 12th. Can you tell us a little bit about what we're going to be doing in that class?  32:48 - Billy (Host) Well, what I usually do is I like to just kind of give my spiel about what I've been doing and I guess the do's and don'ts of the proper way to get in touch with an agent, what to expect, what not to expect from you know. Once you're submitting to an agent, I just try to, I try to just say the things you know, kind of give the tips that actors need to know. You know what's proper, what's not, what's gonna get you. You know what's gonna get you seen, what's gonna get you heard. You know what makes it easy for me, the agent.  33:24 And I've come to also realize that it works differently from agency to agency. So I can only speak to what works for me, um, at CESD, um, but we'll, you know, I'll talk about that and I'll just talk about my feelings on on what it takes, what tools you're going to need and I mean like literal tools, what kind of demos you're going to need, that sort of stuff. Do a little Q and a and then read some copy, you know and anybody that does come to the class.  33:54 um, it's gotta be commercial copy, because that's that's what I do, you know um. I, I'm, I'm not going to be able to judge you on your animation copy or you know that kind of stuff. That's not really what I do. So we'll, you know, we'll do that and we'll tear it apart and hopefully get to two pieces within the class.  34:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that. We'll see. Yay, well, I'm very excited for that and, bosses, I'll be putting a link so that you can sign up for it, because I'm quite sure it's going to go quickly. Now my last question is because you said you're in upstate New York and I, you know, I have my own, like my own, nostalgic memories of upstate New York, and so, for me, I'd be riding a horse, you know, in in the countryside. So if you weren't an agent, philly, what would you be doing right now? Oh God, would you have a different career? Would you be retired and riding horses, or?  34:49 - Billy (Host) Yeah, well, you know, I've only had three different jobs in my life, okay, well, you know, other than high school jobs. I was an actor slash waiter, and then I became an agent. You know Like I've been it's you know. So I moved to New York to be an actor and that didn't happen, but I always kind of I was. I had a friend who was a commercial casting director and so I used to go in and help him out at the casting calls.  35:20 That was back in the days of Polaroids and signing up and I really was fascinated by it. And he would you know. And he kept saying there's an opening at this agency. Do you want to go? And I would go and audition, you know, to be an assistant. Sure, and then boom, boom, boom.  35:35 And then, it just so happens, he said CED, because we weren't CESD at that point it was looking to expand the voiceover department and was I interested, and my partner at the time said go and audition. I mean go and audition, apply for the job, cause one of these days you will make more money than me. And so you know. And um and so um, and now, every year, every year. I'm still in touch with him and I call him and I say thank you, greggy, for allowing me to have this job.  36:08 - Anne (Host) Here's my annual income report allowing me to have this job.  36:11 - Billy (Host) Here's my annual income report yes, so anyway, yeah. So I've thought about this. What do I do? I'm too old to be a waiter.  36:23 - Anne (Host) I'm not going to go back, though I think I would be really good at it.  36:25 - Billy (Host) I have these- I agree, actually, you've got the social I think I could do. Yeah, so do I go. But when I retire, whenever that is, I want to social. I think I could do. Yeah, you know, so do I go. But you know, when I retire, you know, whenever that is, I'm on a travel. I just love to travel, that's, that's my thing. So you know. You know, I feel like when this is behind me, that I will, you know, I'll just travel. I'm not going to be on a horse up here, but I always had.  36:50 You know, sometimes I've had, you know, I don't know if I even want another. You know job and I'm at that point now where you know, I'm old and I don't want another career. It's not like I'm. You know, I'm going to be an artist, or you know, I once thought I thought well, maybe I'll just go do community theater somewhere.  37:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I have a friend.  37:08 - Billy (Host) I have a friend, interestingly enough, a little older than I am, lives in Chicago and he started taking an acting class just for the hell of it.  37:16 - Anne (Host) For the hell of it.  37:17 - Billy (Host) And he said, the others they love it because they have somebody to play the old man in all those scenes. And I thought, oh my God, that's great, I could do that. Yeah, I love that. I thought yeah, why not community theater you? Know, if that was it. Now there's no community theater in New York City, so if that's where I retire, you know. But if I was to retire up here, you know that would interest me, and you know because I am a lover of theater, so I do.  37:46 - Anne (Host) Yeah, Well, I feel like you kept yourself in the acting world, you know by being an agent I mean in that you know, it's still like a. It's still you're very much immersed in it, and so I feel like, if that was your one love, you came to New York, by the way. Where did you come from?  38:02 - Billy (Host) I grew up in Waltham Massachusetts, oh okay. Okay yeah, just a little outside of. Boston.  38:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, very familiar with it. I went.  38:09 - Billy (Host) Yeah, I grew up in Waltham and then I went to UMass, Amherst and then to New York.  38:14 - Anne (Host) That was my. Oh, fantastic, yeah, there you go. Well, my gosh, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you today. I mean, I could go on. I feel like we could go on, but at some point, I do have to quit at some point.  38:32 But yeah, thank you so so much for sharing your wisdom. It's been really a joy talking with you. I'm so excited for November. Guys, bosses, remember November 12th. Get yourself to vobosscom and sign up to work with this gentleman. He's amazing, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses like Billy and myself, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. Bye, bye.  39:05 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.