155: The Value of Disgust: What Our Bodies Tell Us About Boundaries & Connection (with Todd Hargrove)

🎙A better understanding of the very human emotion of disgust can help us navigate boundaries, empathy, and connection in our hands-on work—and in the wider world. This week, Til welcomes back Todd Hargrove—Certified Rolfer™, movement educator, and author of A Guide to Better Movement and Playing With Movement. Together they explore one of the most primal, and often least examined, human emotions: disgust. Drawing from psychology, neuroscience, and his years of practice, Todd unpacks disgust as part of our behavioral immune system—a mechanism designed to keep us safe from harm that also influences our moral judgments, client relationships, and social divisions. In this conversation, they explore: • How disgust shows up physiologically and emotionally in practitioners and clients • The difference between protective instinct and unconscious bias • When disgust serves as a moral compass, and when it drives prejudice or separation • Practical ways to notice and work with disgust as a signal rather than a verdict • How turning aversion into curiosity can deepen empathy and compassion in practice At its heart, this dialogue invites practitioners to see disgust not as something to suppress or be ashamed of, but as a doorway into greater awareness, boundaries, and connection. ✨ Read Todd’s original article on disgust: 👉 https://toddhargrove.substack.com/p/disgust ✨ Learn more about Todd’s books and writing: 👉 https://www.bettermovement.org/books ✨ Watch this episode on YouTube: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts Sponsor Offers:  • Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on https://booksofdiscovery.com/.  • ABMP: save $24 on new membership at https://www.abmp.com/thinking.  • Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at http://a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. • Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: https://www.academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet/  • Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   ✨ Connect with us: • Til Luchau: https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe ——— The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe go deep into the sacroiliac (SI) joints in this listener-favorite rebroadcast of Episode 74, where they unpack anatomy, mechanics, assessment controversies, and treatment strategies. From the relationship between pain, stability, and mobility, to ligamentous support, gait mechanics, and the limits of positional models, they offer both clinical clarity and practical takeaways. Along the way, they share road stories, podcast crossovers, and resources for further learning. 🎧 Listen in for evidence-based insights, hands-on strategies, and nuanced discussion that balances analytical precision with experiential wisdom. 👉Thailand Retreat 2026 Join Til and friends for Finding Balance, an immersive bodywork and movement retreat at a floating retreat center in Thailand. Learn more → https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/ 🔍Key Points by Time Code: 00:00 – Sponsor, catch-up & travel stories; 2022 Fascia Research Congress  03:13 – Today’s focus: sacroiliac joints; Whitney’s Massage & Bodywork article on SI dysfunction 03:53 – Til’s Ilia/SI online course announcement (now available on demand) 04:50 – Podcast review shout-out: Hands at the Table reviews Til’s course 06:11 – Anatomy tour: interlocking joint surfaces, nociceptors, ligament overview 08:30 – Weight transfer & keystone analogy; iliolumbar, sacrotuberous, sacrospinous ligaments 13:53 – Pain mechanisms: “culprit or victim?” framing 15:00 – Motion at the SI joint: small ROM, often misunderstood 18:01 – Nutation vs. counternutation explained; clinical relevance 24:50 – Assessment: why provocation tests (Laslett cluster) matter more than positional diagnosis 28:58 – Treatment approaches: working with sensitivity, remote-site effects, neural target zones 30:22 – Clinical reasoning: differentiating nerve tension vs. ligament vs. joint capsule 33:20 – Complexity of models vs. simplicity of sensation-first approaches 37:14 – Hypermobility paradox: Ehlers-Danlos and individualized load titration 45:00 – Gait mechanics: contralateral in-/out-flare with each step; self-exploration drills 46:07 – Lateral tilt, functional vs. structural leg-length differences; heel lift caveats 58:43 – Self-care: DonTigny-inspired gentle movement in both directions 59:30 – Course info recap; live & recorded access options 1:00:42 – Closing sponsor; how to find show notes & rate the podcast Resources: Article: “Current Concepts in Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunction” (free, registration required) Training: Ilia & SI Joints: Principles Review: the Hands at the Table podcast hosts dissect an AMT Principles course  Previous TTP SIJ episode: 3: Sacroiliac Joint Pain: Causes, Controversies, and Considerations  Whitney’s references: Physiotutors web clip on Laslett SI joint test cluster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8txpsqHYpQ&t=197s Szadek KM, Hoogland P V., Zuurmond WW, de Lange JJ, Perez RS. Nociceptive Nerve Fibers in the Sacroiliac Joint in Humans. Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2008;33(1):36-43. doi:10.1016/j.rapm.2007.07.011 Bertoldo D, Pirri C, Roviaro B, et al. Pilot study of sacroiliac joint dysfunction treated with a single session of fascial manipulation® method: Clinical implications for effective pain reduction. Med. 2021;57(7):1-11. doi:10.3390/medicina57070691 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this special episode recorded live at the 7th International Fascial Research Congress in New Orleans, Til Luchau gathers conversations with leading researchers, educators, and practitioners from around the world. From collagen synthesis breakthroughs to fascia typologies, scar tissue management, mental imagery, and integrative perspectives on touch and movement, this episode captures the excitement and connections at the forefront of fascia research. 🔍Interviews by Time Code: •01:04 — Robert Schleip: Conference spirit, collagen synthesis, ultrasound, and vagus–immune connections •10:01 — Cathy Ryan: Scar tissue management, bridging research and practice, teaching with Healwell & Advanced-Trainings.com •13:45 — Gavin Ruiz: A first-time attendee’s perspective, tendon insights, and applying research as a young therapist •15:42 — Eric Franklin: The Franklin Method, mental imagery, body schema, and the role of touch •21:39 — Sneha Krishna: Making fascia science more accessible, teaching biomechanics, and global connective insights •25:53 — Miriam Wessels & Heike Oellerich: The “fascia code,” Viking vs. Elf body types, treatment implications, and emotional dimensions •37:16 — Gil Hedley: People, embodiment, anatomy as metaphor, and uniting spirituality with embodiment Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this intriguing episode, Til and Whitney dig into a recent study that tested the effects of pressure in myofascial release—comparing a traditional pressure-based technique with a light-touch "sham" version. The study measured changes in pain sensitivity, neck mobility, and proprioception. What did the study find? And what can that teach us about technique, touch, and the therapeutic encounter? Join us as we unpack the design, outcomes, and broader implications of this fascinating study—and reflect on what really makes manual therapy effective. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:47 - Study Introduction - Exploring immediate effects of suboccipital myofascial release on pain thresholds, range of motion, and proprioception 04:38 - Research Design - Comparing pressure-based technique vs. "sham" light touch treatment in 30 healthy adults 08:45 - Sham Treatment Challenges - Why creating control groups is particularly difficult in manual therapy research 12:18 - Measurement Methods - Pain pressure threshold, cervical range of motion, and proprioception repositioning tests 14:58 - Surprising Results - Both pressure and light touch groups showed similar improvements with no statistical difference 18:14 - Contextual Effects - Everything beyond technique that influences outcomes: environment, expectations, touch quality, practitioner skill 19:44 - Technique vs. Context Debate - Does this prove technique doesn't matter, or highlight the importance of how we deliver treatment? 26:16 - Anatomical Considerations - Suboccipital muscles, proprioceptors, and precision-oriented treatment approaches 30:00 - Research Limitations - Small sample size, no follow-up, immediate effects only, practitioner experience factors 34:12 - Clinical Takeaways - The "magic" of touch and importance of human connection in therapeutic outcomes   Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙What does it mean to find balance—when the world around us feels anything but balanced? Til and Whitney explore the many meanings of “balance,” from physical coordination and structural asymmetry to emotional regulation, interoception, and life rhythm. Drawing on neuroscience, somatics, and their own experience as bodyworkers, they reflect on how balance isn’t a fixed point—but a dynamic process of continual adaptation. Whether you’re a practitioner looking to stay grounded in caregiving roles, or just navigating modern overwhelm, this episode offers practical insights and embodied metaphors to help you stay centered. ✨ Inspired by Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Sign up now with a $350 deposit, and use code “thinking” for $100: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/  🔍 Key Topics: •00:00 – What “balance” means in the body and beyond •04:20 – Balance as movement, not stillness •08:00 – Vestibular systems and the emotional brain (Hitier et al., 2014) •12:15 – Why imbalance is fertile ground for growth (Kelso & Engström, 2006) •15:30 – The body as metaphor for internal regulation •18:05 – Interoception as a compass for emotional balance (Mehling et al., 2012) •22:40 – Is symmetry the goal—or functional asymmetry? •26:50 – Giving and receiving: how practitioners stay balanced •31:00 – Tech vs. touch: what really heals? •34:20 – Work/life balance and showing up for clients •37:10 – Micro-practices: balance in everyday moments •40:30 – Retreat as a reset: what stepping away reveals •44:15 – Closing reflections + details about the Thailand retreat 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  •Hitier, M., Besnard, S., & Smith, P. F. (2014). Vestibular pathways involved in cognition. Frontiers in Integrative Neuroscience, 8, 59. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2014.00059  •Slomo – A short documentary about Dr. John Kitchin’s journey toward balance and meaning. https://vimeo.com/channels/5pointpicks/90655826  •Adachi, Kendra. The Plan: A Step-by-Step Guide to Rest, Peace, and Purpose (2024) – A practical and compassionate approach to designing a life that works for you. https://www.amazon.com/Plan-Step-Step-Guide-Purpose/dp/0593578502 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Rebroadcast: One of our most popular episodes (Ep 45), shared again in honor of the upcoming Fascia Research Congress. 🎙In this lively and far-reaching conversation, fascia researcher and manual therapy pioneer Robert Schleip returns to talk with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe about the newly expanded second edition of Fascia in Sport and Movement. They explore what’s new in fascia science, how manual therapy and movement are evolving, and how fascia functions as a sensory and fluid-regulating organ. Along the way, Schleip shares stories, research, and a few surprises. 🔍 Key Topics: •0:00 — Til’s choice to publish with Handspring (and Robert’s role in that decision) •2:02 — Introducing Robert Schleip: Rolfing, Feldenkrais, and fascia science •5:46 — Relevance of Fascia in Sport and Movement for manual therapists •8:36 — From bodywork to movement: integrating motor learning and fascia fitness •12:47 — Fascia fitness origins and the shift toward bounce, play, and variety •18:15 — Fascia as a sensory organ: 250 million sensory nerve endings •22:10 — Surprising differences in innervation between skin and fascia •26:58 — Free nerve endings, pain perception, and autonomic connections •29:41 — Sympathetic regulation and its role in fluid dynamics and recovery •35:25 — Balancing sympathetic and parasympathetic input through varied movement •40:18 — Resilience, trauma, and adaptation (with nods to Porges and Levine) •45:19 — Can we really change fascia? Revisiting IT bands and foam rolling •50:34 — Hyaluronan, hydration, and viscosity: another mechanism for change •57:36 — A story of facial nerve recovery, social engagement, and baby therapy •1:01:31 — Touching water: fascia, sponginess, and inspiring clients to move •1:06:54 — Elegant stair dancing and everyday movement integration •1:10:30 — Resources, shoutouts, and where to learn more from Robert 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  Book: Fascia in Sport & Movement at Handspring (Get 15% off with coupon code TTP)  fasciaresearch.de somatics.de Fascia Research Society  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this episode, Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe speak with renowned neuroscientist Dr. Stephen Porges, originator of Polyvagal Theory. Together, they explore how our nervous systems respond to cues of safety, how touch can support regulation and connection, and what all this means for bodyworkers and manual therapists. Dr. Porges shares the latest thinking on co-regulation, trauma, attunement, and the science of feeling safe—along with practical insights for practitioners working with the body. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:00 – 02:00 Intro, ABMP welcome & framing the Polyvagal lens for bodyworkers 02:00 – 07:00 Early research with Peter Levine and John Cottingham: how structural shifts (pelvic tilt, fascia work) alter autonomic regulation 07:00 – 12:00 Evolutionary foundations: fascia types, diaphragm function, and the hierarchy of autonomic response 12:00 – 17:00 Facial expressivity, voice prosody, and breathing as channels of co‑regulation 17:00 – 22:00 Identifying autonomic states (“tightly wrapped” bodies) and choosing when—not just where—to touch 22:00 – 27:00 The Body Perception Questionnaire: a tool for mapping clients’ interoceptive awareness 27:00 – 32:00 Trauma, autonomic reactivity, and parsing traumatic events vs. responses 32:00 – 37:00 The Safe and Sound Protocol: acoustic interventions for nervous system safety 37:00 – 42:00 Vagal “hacking” misconceptions: why rhythm and safety signals matter more than stimulation 42:00 – 47:00 Feedback loops: tissue ↔ nervous system ↔ fascia → chronic pain 47:00 – 52:00 Therapist intuition: physiological co‑regulation, broadcasting accessibility, therapist self‑state 52:00 – 57:00 Finding safety in a chaotic world: why therapists need safe colleagues and co‑regulation too 57:00 – 60:00+ New resources: Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety, the Norton-edited somatic therapies volume, Safe & Sound Protocol book, Our Polyvagal World 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  • Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety Stephen W. Porges (2022) A foundational, peer-reviewed article exploring how our nervous system detects safety and threat. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2022.871227 • Somatic-Oriented Therapies: Embodiment, Trauma, and Polyvagal Perspectives Edited by H. Grassmann, M. Stupiggia & S. W. Porges (2025) A rich collection on body-centered therapy approaches and trauma healing through a Polyvagal lens. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324052724 • Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing Stephen W. Porges & Karen Onderko (2025, Audiobook) A warm, practical guide to healing and connection through nervous system regulation. https://www.amazon.com.au/Safe-Sound-Polyvagal-Approach-Connection/dp/B0DGGZLJ3J • Our Polyvagal World: How Safety and Trauma Change Us Stephen W. Porges & Seth Porges (2023, Audiobook) A father-son conversation exploring how trauma and safety shape our bodies, brains, and relationships. https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0CW5CPPFP • Polyvagal Perspectives: Interventions, Practices, and Strategies Stephen W. Porges (2024, Audiobook) Hands-on insights for bringing Polyvagal ideas into therapy, education, and everyday life. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0D9PJQC55 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙From “vagal push-ups” to inflammation to trauma healing, the vagus nerve is everywhere in bodywork and wellness talk—but what does the science actually say? And more importantly, what does this mean in actual practice? In this episode, Til and Whitney take a grounded, myth-busting look at the vagus nerve’s role in health, relaxation, and hands-on practice. They explore what we can clearly influence through bodywork, what’s misunderstood, and how to work with and think about this vital nerve in our hands-on practices. 🔍 Key Topics: 0:01:50 Introduction to the vagus nerve 0:02:07 Early experiences learning about the vagus nerve 0:03:40 Chair massage and vagal responses 0:03:40 EMT training and vagal response demonstrations 0:04:03 Early research on heart rate variability 0:05:23 Steven Porges and polyvagal theory origins 0:05:46 Anatomical overview of the vagus nerve 0:06:15 Nerve pathways and innervation 0:08:44 Branches to the ear and other body parts 0:08:44 Ventral and dorsal vagus nerve divisions 0:10:01 Parasympathetic nervous system explanation 0:11:11 Evolutionary perspectives on vagal function 0:12:44 Vagal tone and heart rate variability 0:14:38 Mechanisms of heart rate regulation 0:15:04 Breathing and its impact on vagal tone 0:19:47 Breathing techniques for vagal stimulation 0:21:15 Humming, chanting, and vocal effects 0:23:15 Social regulation through sound 0:25:24 Cold exposure and vagal response 0:26:35 Diving reflex 0:27:00 Physiological changes in response to cold 0:28:07 Can we "treat" the vagus nerve? 0:32:27 Limitations of direct nerve manipulation 0:35:14 Holistic approaches to nervous system regulation 0:35:39 Identifying clients who might benefit from vagal tone work 0:36:14 Vagus nerve and inflammation 0:38:12 Changing perspectives on manual therapy approaches 0:39:39 Role of education in treatment 0:41:16 Ear stimulation techniques 0:42:52 Cautions about ear work 0:44:46 Polyvagal theory overview 0:45:59 Criticisms of polyvagal theory 0:46:21 Misconceptions about vagus nerve stimulation 0:49:25 Key takeaways about vagus nerve 0:50:24 Importance of context in nervous system regulation 0:51:49 Comparing vagus nerve to mystique of psoas muscle 0:52:41 Sponsor acknowledgments 0:53:24 Closing remarks and contact information Resources discussed in this episode:  Article: Luchau, Til: 'Working with the Vagus Nerve' Massage & Bodywork, 2017. https://bit.ly/luchau-workingwiththevagusnerve  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙What can trained hands feel in irradiated tissue—and how might that inform both research and practice? In this episode, Til Luchau and guest cohost Cathy Ryan, RMT, talk with neurobiologist Dr. Geoffrey Bove and manual therapist/speech pathologist Holly McMillan about their collaborative animal study. They explore how massage therapy may influence radiation-induced fibrosis, the use of palpation as a formal outcome, and the challenges of correlating what we feel with what science can measure. This wide-ranging discussion offers practical takeaways for manual therapists working with inflammation, scarring, or post-radiation clients. Stick around after the outro for a candid “off-mic” bonus segment where Holly describes her hands-on work in surgical oncology settings. ⏱️ Key Topics: • 00:01:31 – Introductions: Cathy Ryan, Geoffrey Bove, Holly McMillan • 00:03:09 – Why this study was exciting to manual therapists • 00:04:18 – Geoffrey Bove on inflammation, nerves, and fibrosis research • 00:08:14 – Holly: how findings might apply beyond radiation cases • 00:13:20 – Holly explains what she was feeling for in irradiated limbs • 00:14:23 – “Buoyancy” and the difficulty of articulating touch-based findings • 00:18:25 – How palpation findings relate to pathology and imaging • 00:20:59 – Fibrosis and lymphedema as a clinical continuum • 00:23:36 – Timing differences in fibrosis between surgery and radiation • 00:24:52 – Study limitations: assay sensitivity vs. palpation sensitivity • 00:27:00 – Movement’s role in mitigating radiation effects • 00:29:00 – The importance of community, alliance, and social touch • 00:33:27 – Timing of manual therapy before and after radiation • 00:35:00 – Prevention vs. treatment of fibrosis • 00:37:18 – What kind of touch is most helpful, and when • 00:40:00 – Oncology-specific timing considerations for manual therapy • 00:42:29 – Manual therapy goals in early vs. late stages post-surgery • 00:44:09 – What practitioners are really touching: inflammation, edema, fibrosis • 00:45:49 – Apprenticeship vs. protocol-driven training in touch therapy • 00:47:34 – Final thoughts from Geoffrey and Holly • 00:50:56 – Bonus: “Off-mic” conversation—Holly’s stories from surgical manual therapy work • 00:51:09 – Holly describes doing manual therapy in open surgical fields • 00:52:13 – Avoiding surgery or enabling access through touch • 00:53:27 – “Sun-dried tomato” vs. “beef jerky”: metaphors for tissue change • 00:54:15 – Scar tissue, fibrosis, nociceptors, and innervation • 00:55:57 – The gap between pain-focused and function-focused care • 00:57:08 – “The Diary of Holly” and the value of descriptive clinical cases Resources discussed in this episode:  Study: Bove, G. M., McMillan, H., & Barbe, M. F. (2024). Evaluating massage therapy for radiation-induced fibrosis in rats: preliminary findings and palpation results. Cancer Biology & Therapy, 25(1). https://doi.org/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694  https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694  and supplemental file https://advanced-trainings.com/materials_ttp/147_bove_supplemental_kcbt_a_2436694_sm2290.pdf  Also mentioned in this episode: McMillan, H., Barbon, C. E. A., Cardoso, R., Sedory, A., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Mayo, L., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2022). Manual Therapy for Patients With Radiation-Associated Trismus After Head and Neck Cancer. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 148(5), 418–425. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2022.0082 Hutcheson, K., McMillan, H., Warneke, C., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Buoy, S., Wang, J., Woodman, K., Lai, S., & Fuller, C. (2021). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in head and neck cancer survivors: the pilot MANTLE trial. BMJ open, 11(8), e047830. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-047830 McMillan, H., Warneke, C. L., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Lai, S. Y., Fuller, C. D., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2025). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in Head and Neck Cancer Survivors: The MANTLE Nonrandomized Clinical Trial. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 151(4), 319–327. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2024.5157 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙Grief is not just an emotion—it’s a full-body experience. In this episode, Til Luchau talks with neuroscientist and psychologist Mary-Frances O’Connor, author of The Grieving Body, about how grief changes the brain, affects inflammation, and alters our physiology. They explore how attachment loss rewires the brain, how inflammatory responses shape behavior and mood, and how the body experiences grief via physical sensations. They also discuss the role of touch, bodywork, and therapeutic presence in supporting people through grief, and together they reflect on the profound connections between grief, the body, and the healing power of human connection. 🔍 Key Topics: 04:30 – Grief and the brain: What happens in the mind-body connection 10:45 – Grief is not toxic: A new understanding of pain and loss 16:00 – How inflammation shapes behavior and mood in grief 24:00 – Attachment loss and the nervous system: Polyvagal insights 32:45 – The physical sensations of grief: aches, tension, and holding patterns 38:00 – Touch as co-regulation: What bodywork can offer in grief 44:15 – Grief as a lifelong, embodied process, not something to get over 50:10 – Practical insights for bodyworkers supporting grieving clients 55:30 – How understanding the body’s role in grief can transform our approach 💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com  Resources discussed in this episode:  Two of Mary-Frances O’Connor's books: The Grieving Brain https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-grieving-brain-mary-frances-oconnor  The Grieving Body https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-grieving-body-mary-frances-oconnor  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)