Build a Brand People Actually Trust with Dr. Anna Persaud, CEO at The Works | Ep. 380

How do you build a science-first wellness brand that can survive (and lead) in one of the most crowded categories in the world for 22+ years? In this Marketingland Festival 2025 session, Dr. Anna Persaud, CEO and founder of This Works, walks through the brand-building decisions behind turning a wellness brand into an international leader, known for creating the pillow spray category. From pioneering circadian-rhythm-backed sleep solutions to building trust through clinical trials, neuroscience partnerships, and over 200 awards, she unpacks what it takes to win long-term: purpose, proof, relevance, and innovation. You’ll also learn:  How to turn scientific credibility into a competitive advantage Why pivoting with the “bedtime economy” proved to be the best move for Anna and her team How to reframe “failed” products If you’re building a wellness brand, redefining your category, or trying to scale trust in a noisy market, this conversation is for you.  Follow Anna: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-persaud-aa5a176/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Running ads but not seeing results? It might not be your targeting, budget, or creative…it’s your messaging. Daniel sits down with Ashley Brock, founder of Paid Ads Academy, to break down her Rainmaker Messaging Framework: a repeatable system she’s used to spend over $200M on ads and grow her business to nearly eight figures in under three years. Ashley explains why most marketers skip messaging and jump straight to ads, and how that shortcut leads to wasted spend and stalled growth. They walk through each element of the Rainmaker framework with real-world examples you can apply immediately. You’ll also learn: Why ads fail when they speak to the solution too early How to instantly clarify who your message is for The small wording shifts that make ads feel personal Whether you’re running paid media, building a personal brand, or refining your company’s positioning, this episode will change how you think about messaging. CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials   Follow Ashley: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyjettonbrock/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

There’s a marketing tactic that feels obvious, a little annoying, and somehow still works better than almost anything else: telling people exactly what to do. Jay and Daniel break down why direct instructions like “open this, save this post, screenshot this, and send this to your team” consistently outperform vague or polite calls to action across email, social, ads, and websites. They dig into real data behind subject lines that boost open rates, why platform signals like saves and shares matter more than ever, and how moving your CTA to the beginning instead of the end can change performance. They also explore how action-forward buttons and more explicit copy can increase retention…not just clicks. If you’re struggling to turn attention into action, this episode is for you.  Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

B2B social isn’t broken…most brands are just playing it wrong. Daniel sits down with Chris Cunningham, founding member of ClickUp and the brain behind one of the most recognizable B2B social strategies today. Chris breaks down how ClickUp went from a scrappy pivot to a content powerhouse by betting early on creators, comedy, and consistency, even when everyone said B2B social wouldn’t work. From building an internal creator team to launching multiple niche media pages, Chris shares the exact operating system ClickUp uses to generate millions of organic impressions every month. You’ll also learn: Why B2B brands should copy B2C trends before they’re “acceptable” How ClickUp runs its weekly content machine from ideation to publishing Why creator-led pages and employee-generated content are the future of B2B marketing If you’re trying to build a brand people actually talk about (not just ads people scroll past), this episode is for you. CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. callrail.com/proveit Follow Chris: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Is SEO actually dead? Daniel sits down with Tifenn Dano Kwan, CMO of Amplitude, to unpack how AI search and LLMs are fundamentally changing how buyers discover, evaluate, and choose brands. They break down why traditional traffic is declining and how brand is finally becoming a measurable performance lever. Tifenn shares real data from Amplitude, explains what AI visibility actually tracks, and reveals how CMOs should rethink funnels, content, and metrics heading into 2026. You’ll also learn: Why SEO isn’t dead, but diversification is mandatory How AI visibility works and what it really measures The new metrics CMOs should track beyond traffic If you’re a Marketer wondering how to show up in ChatGPT, Claude, Google AI Overviews, and beyond (without sacrificing pipeline), this episode is for you.  CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. ⁠callrail.com Follow Tifenn: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tifenndano/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

The first two weeks of January are not business as usual…and treating them like they are can quietly sabotage your entire Q1. In this episode of Bathroom Break, Jay and Daniel break down why early January is one of the most misleading times of the year for marketing performance. From flooded inboxes and short attention spans to false negatives on new tests, they explain what not to panic about and what you should be doing instead. They cover why monthly goals beat quarterly planning in January, how to audit automations before they send the wrong signal, why remixing last year’s content often outperforms brand-new ideas, and how shorter copy and simpler messaging win when everyone’s just trying to get back on their feet. If your January marketing ever feels underwhelming, broken, or confusing, this episode explains why, and how to set yourself up for a stronger February, March, and beyond. Keep it short. Keep it relevant. And don’t let January lie to you. Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

MQLs are dead…or are they? Daniel sits down with Emily Popson, VP of Marketing at CallRail, to unpack the biggest pieces of bad advice marketers keep seeing on LinkedIn and what the real truth is behind MQLs, attribution, dark social, and AI-powered data. Emily shares: - Why the war on MQLs is misleading thousands of marketers  - How to fix your lead definitions without rebuilding your entire ops system - Why attribution isn’t “garbage.” And, what metrics do CMOs actually want to see? The answer might be the ones you’ve been leaving out.  This episode is for Marketers who are tired of LinkedIn hot takes and want to understand what actually drives revenue.  CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials   Follow Emily: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilypopson/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Why does social proof actually matter? What’s the psychology behind FOMO?  Behavioral science legend Richard Shotton is back, and he’s dropping some of the most practical psychology-backed tactics marketers can use today. Richard and Daniel break down the biases that shape real-world buying behavior, including why social proof works far better when it’s specific and localized, AND how to make customers draw their own conclusions.  You’ll also learn:  - The subtle language shift between “out of stock” and “sold out” that changes irritation levels by 15% - Why humor dramatically boosts every brand metric thanks to the Halo Effect - Apple’s use of concrete language and how to make your messaging 4x more memorable If you want your Marketing to work better with zero extra budget, this conversation is for you.  Optimizely helps thousands of brands create, personalize, and optimize exceptional digital experiences. See how Optimizely Opal, our AI agent orchestration platform, automates real marketing work and helps teams scale their impact at https://www.optimizely.com/ai/?utm_campaign=PS-GL-11-2025-MARKETING-MILLENNIALS-PODCAST&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=marketingmillennials&utm_content=opal-agent-orchestration  Follow Richard: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

What if urgency is the only lever you’re not pulling? Daniel and Jay break down why “always available” offers quietly kill conversions and how time-based urgency can turn passive audiences into decisive buyers. They unpack real-world plays from ecom and B2B, including how a 30-minute discount window drove action without extra ad spend, why expiring content outperforms evergreen resources, and how to use deadlines to close the year strong. Plus, they share easy urgency tests you can run right now. No new tools, no bigger budget, just smarter timing. If you’re a Marketer trying to drive results before the calendar flips, this one’s for you. 🚽 Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

So, what does Marketing ops actually look like? Atlassian’s Head of Lifecycle Marketing Ops Kelly Jo Horton joins Daniel to break down what ops actually is, why it’s so complex, and how high-performing teams are evolving the function for 2026 and beyond. She explains why MOPS isn’t “just sending an email,” why process is everything, and why marketers need to stop treating ops like a drive-thru and start treating it like a Michelin-star kitchen. She also reveals how Atlassian structures its ops organization and why she believes the MQL is officially dead. You’ll also learn: >  What modern Marketing Ops actually does and why it varies by company > How AI can automate repetitive ops tasks (like list cleaning and lead investigations) > How Atlassian uses Jira, Confluence, Slack bots, and Loom to run ops like engineering This is for anyone in Marketing, rev ops, or GTM who wants to build a scalable system…and for every Marketer who’s ever said “it’s just an email.” Easily record and share AI-powered video messages with your teammates and customers to supercharge productivity at https://www.loom.com/ Follow Kelly Jo: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyjohorton/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/