290: The Truths about Wilderness Therapy: What Outcome Research Shows

What do wilderness therapy outcomes really tell us? In this episode, Will talks with researchers Dr. Joanna Bettmann Schaefer and Dr. Laura Mills, two leading researchers studying outcomes in wilderness therapy and residential outdoor treatment. Drawing on data from thousands of adolescents across multiple programs, they reveal what the evidence shows about who benefits most—and who may not—from outdoor behavioral healthcare. Their conversation explores why family engagement is such a powerful predictor of success, how adopted and neurodiverse adolescents often experience different outcomes, and why a teen's sense of belonging in treatment matters. Joanna and Laura also discuss the importance of transparency, ongoing outcome measurement, and listening to those who felt harmed by treatment. For parents, professionals, and anyone seeking facts over assumptions, this episode brings clarity to what outcome research really shows about wilderness therapy today. To find the research discussed in this episode: Dr. Bettman-Schaefer research page- https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joanna-Bettmann-Schaefer To contact Dr. Bettman-Shaefer- [email protected] Dr. Laura Mills research page- https://www.bestnotes.com/our-advisors/laura-mills-ph-d-qm-psych/ To contact Dr. Mills- [email protected]   This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

Dr. Patricia Hasbach of Northwest Ecotherapy joins Will to explore how clinicians can bring the healing power of nature into their therapeutic work. Drawing from her new book, Prescribing Nature: A Clinician's Guide to Ecotherapy, Patricia shares her journey from traditional therapy settings to incorporating the natural world as an active partner in treatment. She explains the concept of the "ecological self" and how reconnecting clients with nature can reduce anxiety, depression, and stress while deepening connection and meaning. Patricia also offers practical guidance on writing "nature prescriptions," navigating ethical considerations, and developing competence for working outdoors. Through personal stories and research insights, she shows how ecotherapy can transform both therapy and the therapist—helping practitioners step beyond the office and into the living world as part of the healing process. U.S.-based customers can get 20% off and free shipping on Patricia Hasbach's new book when ordering through Norton using this link:  https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324053668?promo=WWHITE20 Dr. Hasbach's website is- https://www.northwestecotherapy.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-68dd7960-bdc8-8325-87c8-b67cd0fb09d8-0" data-testid= "conversation-turn-46" data-scroll-anchor="true" data-turn= "assistant"> Why are so many young people struggling—and are adults partly to blame? Dr. Will Dobud and Dr. Nevin Harper return to Stories from the Field to talk with Will about their bold new book, Kids These Days: Understanding and Supporting Youth Mental Health. Building on their past appearances, they reunite to explore why youth mental health keeps declining despite unprecedented access to therapy, medication, and awareness—and what adults can do to change the story. Drawing on decades of research and global experience, they challenge the assumption that kids are the problem, pointing instead to the adult-driven systems shaping their world: safety culture, over-intervention, digital overload, and the pathologizing of normal struggle. This thought-provoking episode invites parents, educators, and clinicians to step back, rethink their roles, and consider how adults can foster real belonging, autonomy, and resilience for the next generation. To buy Kids These Days: Understanding and Supporting Youth Mental Health check out-  https://newsociety.com/book/kids-these-days/?srsltid=AfmBOooJR2i7KY%E2%80%A6 To hear Dr. Will Dobud's previous episodes: Episode 109- and Episode 132 To hear Dr. Nevin Haper's previous episode: Episode 106 This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.

Journalist and bestselling author Florence Williams joins Will to explore how time outdoors can transform our minds and bodies. Drawing from her acclaimed book The Nature Fix and her retreats around the world, Florence shares what first inspired her to study the science of nature's impact on mental health — and how awe, quiet, and sunlight can rewire our brains for calm and connection. They discuss the "three-day effect," the power of forest bathing, and simple daily practices anyone can use to bring more nature into life — even in cities. Whether you're a reader of The Nature Fix or simply someone who feels better outside, this conversation will leave you inspired to step outdoors and notice how nature heals. To learn more about Florence Williams, her books, and retreats check out: https://florencewilliams.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

In this week's episode, Will welcomes experiential educator Greg Hitchcock, who shares the story of The Trade—a paid apprenticeship and next-step program for young adults who feel stuck or unsure of their direction. Based on 2,000 acres in New Hampshire, The Trade helps participants learn by doing and earn while growing through hands-on training in the trades, including forestry, woodworking, construction, automotive, hospitality, and more. Apprentices live together in a supportive, therapeutic-style community, earning wages from day one while building life skills, confidence, and independence through real work in the outdoors.  Learn more about The Trade at TradeForLife.org. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

In this episode Will  speaks with Somerville Johnston, co-founder of Bright Shadow, a nonprofit dedicated to helping people navigate grief and loss through nature-based retreats and community support. Somerville shares how her background in Outward Bound, somatic therapy, and adventure programs led to the creation of Bright Shadow, which began with grief retreats for whitewater kayakers and has since expanded to serve a wider community. Together, Will and Somerville explore the power of the outdoors to hold grief, foster connection, and invite healing. They discuss the unique ways Bright Shadow blends ceremony, play, and somatic practices in natural settings to create safe spaces where participants can process loss—whether from the death of loved ones, natural disasters, or changes in cherished outdoor landscapes. This conversation highlights how community, nature, and nonprofit efforts like Bright Shadow can transform the experience of grief into opportunities for renewal, resilience, and deeper connection. We are supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute- wmai.org. which is our hosts coaching and retreat practice.      

In this episode, Will sits down with Chris Brown, founder of the LifeWays Wilderness Institute in Durango, Colorado. Lifeways offers a unique blend of outpatient therapy and guided outdoor experiences—from rock climbing and backpacking to family retreats and professional trainings—all rooted in the "four rooms" model of mind, body, heart, and soul. Chris shares how his team is expanding access by partnering with nonprofits, providing grant-funded programs for teens, and accepting Medicaid and major insurers to reduce barriers to care. He also reflects on why shorter, voluntary wilderness experiences can be transformative—helping young people build resilience, practice healthy conflict, and connect more deeply to themselves, their community, and the natural world. We are supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute- wmai.org. which is our hosts coaching and retreat practice.  

In this episode, Will welcomes back Nathan Olsen—winner of the latest season of Alone. Nathan's roots in wilderness survival run deep: his father, Larry Dean Olsen, was a pioneer in the early years of wilderness therapy, and Nathan grew up immersed in the outdoors through helping out at the Anasazi Foundation and other wilderness programs. We explore his journey in South Africa's Great Karoo Desert, how a lifetime of "dirt time" in wilderness therapy shaped his survival skills, and the reflections on family, purpose, and the changing field of wilderness therapy. Nathan also shares how research continues to prove its effectiveness and how his work co-founding BestNotes supports behavioral healthcare providers, underscoring why time in nature remains such a powerful catalyst for resilience, healing, and transformation. Nathan Olsen was previously on episode 9 of Stories from the Field, Nov. 1 2018. You can find that episode here-https://storiesfromthefield.libsyn.com/nathan-olson-ceo-of-bestnotes or any podcast platform.  Learn more at White Mountain Adventure Institute about Will White's coaching practice- wmai.org.  

In this episode, Will reconnects with his friend Chris Robbins, founder of Soul Degree men's retreats and husband of bestselling author Mel Robbins. Chris shares his journey from corporate burnout to creating outdoor retreats where men come together to heal, connect, and reset. Having attended two Soul Degree retreats himself, Will describes the impact of hiking, fire pits, and time in nature—experiences that inspired him to launch his own retreats for men at White Mountain Adventure Institute. The conversation also explores the global success of The Let Them Theory, written by Mel Robbins with their daughter Sawyer, and how its message overlaps with Chris's work. Just as the book encourages readers to release control, Soul Degree reminds men that while people may care, nature doesn't—it simply provides the space for real transformation. Learn more at White Mountain Adventure Institute- wmai.org. Check out Chris's previous conversation with Will- episode 217 of this podcast- Nature's Therapy: Unveiling Soul Degree's Power in Men's Wellness with Chris Robbins  

In this episode, Will speaks with Jason Denham, founder of Awakened Shadow Coaching, about his two decades of work with boys, men and other genders in behavioral healthcare including wilderness therapy, transitional living, and recovery support. Jason shares how outdoor experiences—from simple games in the woods to long days on trail—create unique openings for boys and men to express themselves, build resilience, and form meaningful connections. Drawing on his own recovery journey and his coaching practice rooted in Jungian shadow work and mindful somatic practices, Jason reflects on both the transformative power and the ongoing challenges of outdoor-based behavioral healthcare. Our host Will White's men's coaching and retreats website is wmai.org. Our guest Jason Denham's website is https://awakenedshadow.com/