Matt Hunter: How to Be Tough Enough Without Becoming a Jerk

Today, I sit down with Matt Hunter, executive coach and co-author with John Baird of Tough Enough: How to Lead a Team to Greatness Without Being a Jerk. Matt and I met several years ago on Necker Island, and I’ve liked and respected him ever since. When I saw what he and John were taking on with this book, I wanted him on the show.Because they’re walking straight into a leadership question I care about enormously.We’ve all seen the examples: founders and executives who produce extraordinary results while leaving a trail of exhausted, intimidated, or unhappy people behind them. Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and others have reinforced an uncomfortable idea for generations of ambitious leaders: maybe being extraordinarily demanding, even brutal, is simply what greatness requires.Matt doesn’t dismiss that evidence. That’s what makes this conversation interesting.His argument is that toughness really does matter. Bold missions require conviction. High-performance teams require standards. Leaders sometimes need to make difficult decisions, push people beyond comfort, and remain steady when everyone around them is scared.But toughness and cruelty are not the same thing.Matt and John Baird have identified seven habits intended to help leaders become what they call “tough enough”: highly demanding while retaining compassion, respect and humanity.That leads us into one of my favorite parts of the conversation: vulnerability.I’ve spent years thinking about the difference between indiscriminate vulnerability and what I call Insightful Vulnerability™. A leader blurting out every fear before the team charges up the proverbial hill may technically be “authentic,” but that doesn’t necessarily make it good leadership. Vulnerability becomes valuable when it serves the people listening, builds trust, and creates Emotional Credibility™.We also get very personal about the cost of toughness. Matt and I both experienced serious health consequences after intense startup chapters. That takes us into a much more useful question than work-life balance: How do you lead relentlessly without destroying your capacity to keep leading?This conversation isn’t an argument for being softer.It’s an exploration of how to become tougher in the places that matter, compassionate in the places that matter, and intentional enough to know the difference. Key TakeawaysI think we have to stop treating toughness and compassion as opposites. Matt’s central argument is that leaders can set extremely high standards, pursue bold goals, and make difficult decisions without treating people badly.I came away appreciating the distinction between being “tough” and simply being aggressive. Toughness can mean conviction, endurance, accountability, and an unwillingness to abandon the mission when things get uncomfortable.I believe vulnerability only works in leadership when it serves a purpose beyond relieving the leader’s own emotions. That’s the distinction I make with Insightful Vulnerability™: share something because it helps other people trust, learn or act, not simply because you happen to feel it.I think admitting a mistake can increase rather than diminish a leader’s authority. Saying, “I screwed this up, here’s what I learned, and here’s what I’m changing,” can create trust that defensiveness never will.I was struck by Matt’s framing of relentless leadership as an endurance problem rather than simply a work-life balance problem. Ambitious people will push. The question is whether we understand our capacity, recovery, and rate of exertion well enough to keep going.I know firsthand that there is a danger zone. During my startup years, years of extreme stress and inadequate sleep contributed to a serious autoimmune illness. Matt shares a remarkably similar experience.I think every leader has to choose where they want to operate on the toughness spectrum. There is no requirement that you build your company, career, or life the way Elon Musk does, simply because his approach produces certain kinds of results.I like the high-performance sports team analogy for culture. People can be treated extremely well while still being expected to perform at the level the team requires.What really stands out to me is the false choice Matt is trying to eliminate. Compassionate leaders should not have to choose between being good human beings and being formidable competitors. Addressing Relevant IssuesOne reason I think this conversation matters right now is that leaders are receiving contradictory messages.We’re told to be empathetic, emotionally intelligent, vulnerable, and human. We’re also surrounded by highly visible examples suggesting that extreme demands, relentless pressure, and even fairly awful behavior can produce spectacular business results.I don’t think pretending that contradiction doesn’t exist helps anyone.The more useful question is: How do I lead a high-performance team without becoming someone I don’t respect?That means thinking more precisely about accountability, resilience, trust, executive communication, burnout, and how to lead through pressure without transferring all of that pressure indiscriminately to everyone around us.It also means recognizing that there are costs at both ends of the spectrum. Too little toughness can undermine the mission. Too much can undermine the people, the culture, our families, and eventually ourselves. Why This Episode MattersI invited Matt onto the show because I want this idea in the world.I work with extraordinarily capable leaders. Many of them are already compassionate, thoughtful people. What they sometimes need is not permission to become softer. They need permission and practical tools to become tougher without believing that toughness requires arrogance, cruelty, or disregard for other people.I also know what happens when relentless pursuit crosses a line. I’ve lived some of those consequences myself.What Matt and John Baird are attempting with Tough Enough is important because they’re not asking good-hearted leaders to lower their ambitions. They’re giving them another way to pursue those ambitions.If we can succeed without becoming jerks in the process, that seems like a considerably better deal to me. Resources MentionedTough Enough: How to Lead a Team to Greatness Without Being a Jerk — Matt Hunter and John BairdTough Enough Leaders — toughenoughleaders.com (spoken by Matt during the episode; verify URL before making it a live link)Tough Enough leadership assessments — Matt describes two assessments designed to evaluate overall toughness and toughness across the book’s seven habitsTough Enough workbook — Free companion resource mentioned by MattHachette — Publisher of Tough Enough, as identified in the conversationFounders Pledge — Organization Matt previously helped leadCannery Row by John Steinbeck — Source of the Steinbeck passage discussed near the beginning of the conversationTake Breaks Work Better — Book mentioned during our discussion of performance and recovery; the transcript renders the author’s name as “John Briggs,” so I would verify the title and author before publishing a linkConnect with Matt Hunter on LinkedIn and X Connect & SubscribeIf this conversation made you think differently about how you lead, I’d love it if you subscribed to Live Like a Leader and shared this episode with somebody who would appreciate it.And if you enjoy the show, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star review and write a sentence or two about what you enjoy. Those comments genuinely help other people find the conversations we’re having here.Most importantly, keep listening, keep experimenting with what works, and keep becoming the kind of leader people genuinely want to follow. Next StepsIf this conversation hit home, take a look at where you currently sit on the toughness spectrum.Where are you avoiding a difficult conversation, lowering a standard, or protecting comfort when the mission requires more from you?And where might you be pushing so hard that you’re creating unnecessary costs for yourself or the people around you?Matt’s Tough Enough assessments and workbook could be useful places to continue that examination. And if someone immediately came to mind while you were listening, send them this episode. I suspect this is one of those conversations that gets even more useful when two leaders discuss it together. -----Matt Hunter is an executive leadership coach and co-author of the forthcoming book Tough Enough: How to Lead a Team to Greatness Without Being a Jerk. He has two decades of experience founding, leading, and coaching companies, most notably cofounding Turnstyle (acquired by Yelp) and serving as president and US CEO of Founders Pledge, a community of entrepreneurs that has pledged over $13.6 billion to charity, with more than $1.9 billion already deployed. Today, he coaches C-suite executives at Fortune 50 companies as well as founders and CEOs of high-growth tech startups backed by firms such as Andreessen Horowitz, Accel, and NEA, with a combined valuation in the tens of billions. He is also expanding his work to include elite sports teams. He lives in Boulder, Colorado. Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I sit down with Dr. Nicole Butts, best-selling and award-winning author, speaker, and organizational culture strategist and expert, whose new book is SHIFT: A Transformational Journey from Playing Small to Unapologetically Thriving. This conversation is a masterclass in what happens when high-achieving leaders (especially women) finally stop outsourcing their worth to other people’s approval—and start leading from alignment. Nicole opens up about something almost every great leader experiences, but few say out loud: that moment right before a big opportunity where the old story shows up—I’m not worthy. I don’t belong here. She literally started drafting me an email to back out… and then caught herself in the act. That “shrinkage story” (her words) became the doorway into the deeper work—and the reason she wrote SHIFT. We go into: why powerful women still play small in male-dominated systems (and how it shows up in everyday language), how “worker bee syndrome” keeps people doing everything… except being seen as a leader, and Nicole’s core equation for transformation: consciousness + courage = transformation. If you’ve ever felt like your work should “speak for itself,” this episode will challenge you—in the best way.   What You’ll Hear in This Episode   1) The real reason accomplished women still shrink   Nicole breaks it down into three forces: Cultural conditioning: being taught to be “likable,” defer, and not take up space—showing up as hedging language like “I’m not really sure, but…” Structural dynamics: being outnumbered (especially for women of color), which changes how safe it feels to be visible. Internalized stories: “If I just do a really good job and keep my head down, they’ll notice.” Nicole is clear: that’s not reliably true.   2) “Worker bee syndrome” and the promotion you never get   I share a pattern I see constantly: the whole department rides on someone’s back… and then they’re shocked when they’re passed up. Why? Because leadership isn’t only output—leadership is visibility, positioning, and presence. I call it “leadership me time”—stepping back from nonstop doing so people can actually see you leading. Nicole agrees and names it “reactive doing”—being busy, carrying everything, but not intentionally showing up as the leader. And then she drops a line I want you to remember: “By design, the work isn’t the leader. You are the leader.”   3) The SHIFT framework: a roadmap out of “playing small”   Nicole shares the backbone of her book as an acronym: S — Set your North Star H — Here I — Illustrate your path forward F — Forge ahead T — Thrive And she didn’t just write a roadmap—she made it real. After each step, she includes a section called “Follow My Journey” where she shows how she personally moved through that step.   4) The inner equation for leadership: consciousness + courage   Nicole explains why transformation requires two things: Consciousness (awareness): noticing the old pattern in real time so you can interrupt it. Courage: taking aligned action even with fear present—like deleting the email draft and saying yes to the opportunity instead.   Her distinction is sharp: Awareness sets the course. Courage fuels the journey.   Try This After You Listen (Practical Actions)   Audit your language for “softeners.” If you regularly start with “I’m not sure, but…” practice leading with the point first. Schedule “leadership me time." Block time weekly to think, plan, mentor, and communicate—not just execute—so you’re seen leading, not only producing. Name your shrinkage story. When it shows up, don’t argue with it—notice it. That awareness creates choice. Choose one aligned action you’ll take while still nervous. That’s courage—aligned action in the presence of fear.   Resources + Links Dr. Nicole Butts (website + books): NicoleButts.com Connect with Nicole on LinkedIn Book: SHIFT: A Transformational Journey from Playing Small to Unapologetically Thriving   About Dr. Nicole Butts Dr. Nicole Butts is a best-selling and award-winning author, speaker, and organizational culture strategist who helps individuals and institutions unlock transformation.   -----   If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating, write a few kind words about the show and our guest, and share it with someone who’s ready to stop shrinking and start leading. Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I'm joined by Joel Steele, co-founder of Steele Financial Solutions and author of the powerful new book Life Switch. Joel’s journey from owning a failed healthy fast food restaurant to building a multi-million-dollar financial firm is inspiring, vulnerable, and packed with leadership gold.   We dive into how devastating failures can unlock hidden potential and why Joel refused to declare bankruptcy, even when he was drowning in nearly $500,000 in debt at just 24 years old. He shares the exact mindset shift that reignited his fire—and the three “P”s that form the backbone of his book: Potential, Passion, and Purpose.   This conversation is for anyone who’s ever felt stuck, wondered if they’re enough, or questioned whether their dreams are still possible. Joel is proof that when you flip the switch inside, everything outside begins to change.   In this conversation, Joel and I explore: The story behind Thinkers Grill, Joel’s awesome, yet failed business, and what it taught him about grit and growth How a single decision helped him wipe out massive debt in under two years The million-dollar mission tied to his book sales, and why he’s aching to write a very big check to charity. How to balance success and fulfillment in today’s high-pressure world Why helping others is Joel’s oxygen, and how you can find your own purpose Whether you’re leading a team, building your brand, or climbing back from a setback, this episode is a masterclass in resilience, reinvention, and real leadership. Find Joel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-steele-9685888/   -----   Joel Steele is an entrepreneur, financial expert, and co-founder/owner of a successful financial firm. He has over 22 years of experience helping people build wealth, along with peace of mind. He’s passionate about enhancing health and wealth, the business of sports, and building meaningful relationships, starting at home with family. Steele’s journey — from massive setbacks to personal reinvention and professional success — fuels his mission to inspire others to win in all aspects of life. He is part of the ownership group of two professional sports teams (NBA G-League and USL Championship League), and has inspired thousands nationwide to achieve personal and professional growth. Joel is a former certified personal trainer and created a small chain of healthy fast-food restaurants in the early 2000s. Find his book Life Switch here: https://bookjoelsteele.com/book/ Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I sit down with Freddie Pullen—founder of The Healthy Entrepreneur Podcast and the founder of Recognized (recognized.global)—and we go straight at a problem I care about deeply: There are too many truly capable experts who stay invisible… while louder, less-qualified voices dominate the conversation.   Freddie helps experts become recognized for the value they already have—and then monetize that attention in a way that actually feels aligned. We talk about the practical strategies (podcast guesting, LinkedIn, positioning), but we also go deeper into the psychology: what it really takes to earn credibility, build trust, and show up with authority without playing the “look at me” game.     We also start the conversation by honoring the work of Sebastian Bates and the Bates Foundation—because leadership isn’t theory when you’re feeding kids and building character in the toughest environments on Earth. Freddie has been a trustee since the foundation began, and he shares what it was like to see the impact firsthand.    What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why Freddie hates the word “expert”… and the standard most people are skipping. The “puddles → lakes → oceans” model for positioning yourself so the market can actually place you. Why podcast guesting + LinkedIn is still the highest-leverage authority play for most founders and consultants. Freddie’s take on platform ROI: why Meta is “cheap,” why YouTube is powerful but expensive to do well, and what ad pricing signals about authority. Why storytelling is still the #1 leadership tool (and why our brains are built for it). My favorite practical exercise for influence: the “10-one-thousand pause”—and why silence makes people tell you what they weren’t going to tell you. A real-world reminder: if you’ve earned expertise and you’re staying quiet, you may be depriving the world of what it needs from you.   Ideas Worth Stealing (and Using This Week) Fix your positioning before you fix your content. Most people try to post more, podcast more, “be everywhere”… while the market still can’t answer: what exactly do you do, for whom, and why you? Freddie’s puddles→lakes→oceans model is a clean way to build authority without diluting it. If you want authority, use authority platforms. Freddie’s argument is simple: for most founders/experts, podcast guesting + LinkedIn is still the highest ROI move because trust is already built into the medium. Silence isn’t awkward—silence is leverage. Try the “10-one-thousand” pause in one conversation this week. Don’t weaponize it—just watch what happens when you stop filling space. People often reveal what matters most when you let the moment breathe.   Resources Mentioned Freddie Pullen — Recognized: recognized.global The Healthy Entrepreneur Podcast (Freddie’s show) Listen on Spotify or Watch on YouTube Connect with Freddie on LinkedIn   -----   Freddie has worked with 200+ founders to build demand, waiting lists, and revenue directly through LinkedIn. Along the way, one thing became impossible to ignore... All buyers do this one thing before they buy: They educate themselves with content. They want to recognize you first. They discover you through a LinkedIn post. Then consume your POV through longer form content. Then decide whether you’re the person they trust. That’s how modern B2B buying actually works. But this didn’t come from theory.   After leaving his role as Head of Product at the world’s largest media company serving 500M monthly users and generating $300k per day, Freddie built two 6-figure businesses in 8 months and helped 200+ founders do the same. The results: Multi six-figure profit in 8 months Podcast launched to #1 in 9 countries on day one $100k+ per year generated from the podcast alone Built a $3BN+ network starting with under 10k followers 50+ qualified HOT leads every month, predictably Which is why the goal of content is to be obvious.   Freddie helps clients position themselves as the authority people already trust before they ever speak to them.   Today, AI is accelerating this, but only if it’s trained on the right positioning. Freddie and his team use AI to: Encode your POV Multiply what already works Turn LinkedIn posts into sales assets You need a new ocean on LinkedIn - where you’re undeniable to your ideal clients. That’s why Freddie and his team built a positioning first, AI powered approach to LinkedIn.   https://freddiepullen.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/freddie-pullen/ https://www.instagram.com/freddiepullen Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I sit down with Camden Francis—a 21-year-old founder in the Boston area who’s already lived a few lifetimes worth of leadership reps.   We talk about the real story behind the highlight reel: how Camden co-founded a pandemic-era food distribution charity that moved $100,000 worth of food and resources, how that experience became a launchpad into the startup world, and why his newest projects—NomadAI (AI-assisted travel planning) and Universe (a career/network platform “for Gen Z,” currently under wraps)—are rooted in something deeper than ambition: service, meaning, and the long game.     A big thread in this conversation is something I care about a lot: your origin story—not as marketing, but as emotional credibility. Who you are. What shaped you. What you’ve survived. What you’re here to build—and why people should trust you enough to follow.    In this episode, Camden and I cover: Starting early: Camden’s “self-starter” drive—and the mentors who helped him learn fast (including Kathleen Walsh, President/CEO of the Metro North YMCA). Beyond the Crisis: how watching families in the Boston area wait in long lines for food during COVID sparked an “Uber Eats-style” nonprofit distribution model—and how they partnered with Catholic Charities of Boston. Momentum and credibility: how the charity’s visibility led to major exposure and new relationships (including appearances on CBS, Bloomberg, PBS, the Drew Barrymore Show, and even White House conferences). NomadAI: why Camden believes travel is a perfect industry for AI disruption—and how NomadAI aims to build itineraries and handle planning like a “24/7 assistant in your back pocket.” Meridian Capital Partners: a founder-focused “hub” that invests very early stage in college founders—especially people who don’t have the usual resume or network. The hard parts: being misunderstood in a high-pressure prep school environment, dealing with racism, isolation, and having to finish part of high school online. The turning point: Universe taking three years to get funded, losing an early investor, and Camden’s “dark night of the soul” moment—where he had to stop chasing comparison and decide what he’s actually committed to. The mission behind Universe: Camden’s focus on helping Gen Z navigate a brutal job/internship market—and building something that serves them in a way he feels LinkedIn doesn’t.   A few lines worth remembering Camden on mission: “I’m really committed to making a difference and solving problems and connecting people.” Camden on perseverance: after setbacks and many calls, they found an accredited investor who put six figures in because he saw the MVP—and the dream. Camden to Gen Z builders: if you’re in a tough season, keep going—try new things—persevere.   Links / Resources Mentioned NomadAI: NomadAI.io Universe (waitlist): UniverseApp.com   About Camden Francis (from this episode) Camden Francis is a Gen Z founder based in the Boston area. He co-founded: Beyond the Crisis, a COVID-era food distribution charity that moved ~$100,000 in food/resources with partners like Catholic Charities of Boston NomadAI, an AI-assisted travel planning and itinerary platform He’s also building Universe, a career/network platform aimed at helping Gen Z navigate internships and jobs.   -----   Camden Francis, a dynamic 21-year-old currently pursuing a degree in Finance and Business Management, seamlessly blends academic prowess with an entrepreneurial spirit. Beyond the confines of his desk, Camden revels in the exhilaration of sports, cherishes quality moments with family and friends, and takes leisurely strolls with his beloved Goldendoodle, Brooks. His summers are often punctuated with escapes to Cape Cod, where he finds solace and inspiration. At the core of Camden's ethos is his commitment to making a positive impact. In 2020, he founded Beyond the Crisis, a nonprofit organization dedicated to serving the community. Under his leadership, the organization diligently distributes food and resources to housing communities and homeless shelters. Camden's visionary approach extends to the research team at Beyond the Crisis, which collaborates with major organizations to strategically combat food insecurity and enhance nutritional health at a national level. Not content with just one venture, Camden is also the visionary force behind "Univerze," a tech company that has birthed a professional networking mobile application. His multifaceted abilities extend beyond the boardroom; Camden is a captivating public speaker, having appeared on renowned platforms such as the Drew Barrymore Show, CBS, PBS, Bloomberg, and NPR. His insights on entrepreneurship have been shared with a broader audience through various podcasts, while his recently published book further underscores his commitment to knowledge dissemination. Looking ahead, Camden is set to expand his horizons. He envisions penning another influential book, venturing into real estate, and strategically growing his investment portfolio. For interviews or business inquiries, Camden Francis invites you to connect with him at [email protected]. Embrace the opportunity to engage with a young luminary whose charisma, innovation, and commitment to positive change define his journey.   Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Some conversations arrive exactly when they’re needed. This is one of them.   In this episode, I sit down with Ryan Edwards, my friend and the co-founder of Camino5, for a conversation that’s been years in the making. Ryan and I first met at one of my live events in Los Angeles, and ever since, he’s been one of those people who quietly shifts how I see the business landscape. He has a rare vantage point: deep experience working with startups, global brands, and billion-dollar companies, and the pattern recognition that comes with it.   Ryan’s work centers on white space strategy... finding the overlooked opportunities where real growth lives, and there couldn’t be a more relevant moment for this conversation. The pace of change has accelerated dramatically, especially with the rise of AI, and many leaders are trying to move faster without losing control.   This episode exists because the rules of business strategy have changed faster in the last year than they did in the previous decade. And most leaders haven’t recalibrated yet.   What we explore here isn’t fear-based. It’s grounded, optimistic, and practical.   Three Operating Principles from This Conversation   1. White space is now dynamic, not static White space used to be analyzed every 18 months. Today, Ryan is seeing strategy cycles compress to quarterly—or even monthly—reviews. Not because leaders love churn, but because technology and culture are moving too fast for set-and-forget thinking. White space isn’t always a massive blue ocean. More often, it’s a small, highly specific intersection of your value proposition, your customer’s real needs, and what you can actually execute well, right now.   2. AI works best when it supports judgment — not when it replaces it Ryan offers one of the clearest, most useful frames I’ve heard for AI and small business: Don’t ask AI for big, sweeping answers. Ask it a series of small questions you can common-sense check, and let those answers ladder up. This takes longer. It requires thinking. And it keeps humans in the loop. That matters because for a small business, one AI mistake isn’t annoying; it’s expensive. One missed email, one misrouted opportunity, one wrong automation can cost real money. Interestingly, Ryan is also seeing large corporations pull back from “AI everywhere” toward controlled automation and fixed workflows. The lesson? We’re not at the point where we can responsibly turn everything over, and pretending we are is risky.   3. Community is now a strategic advantage Ryan makes a compelling case that small business owners should be in their local business community at least once every two weeks, not to network performatively, but to gut-check reality, compare notes, and stay human. Some of the most valuable insights right now are coming from people with just a few years of experience, because they’re in it, learning fast, and willing to share what’s actually working. You never stop learning. And you don’t need decades of experience to contribute. You just need a clear point of view and an open mind.   The Bigger Picture Despite uncertainty, Ryan is seeing more optimism in business than he has in years. Not blind optimism, earned optimism. As he puts it, we have more control than we realized last year. But control only matters if we use it. This is a conversation about: Staying human in an increasingly automated world Using powerful tools wisely instead of stupidly Showing up—locally, imperfectly, consistently—for the world we want to create We’re the ones we’ve been waiting for.   Connect with Ryan Edwards Camino Five: camino5.com Ryan Edwards on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ryanedwards Connect with John Bates johnbates.com executivespeakingsuccess.com livelikealeader.show   This episode makes no difference without you. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a five-star rating and share it with someone who’s navigating leadership, strategy, or AI right now. That’s how we learn from — and support — each other on the journey. Thank you!   -----   Ryan Edwards is the co-founder of Camino5, a strategy consultancy built on a simple belief: insights create strategy and strategy creates growth. With more than 15 years of experience across digital, brand, and customer experience, Ryan’s career began in web design and programming before evolving into creative and CX leadership roles. Over the last decade, his work has focused on understanding how people actually engage with brands across platforms, moments, and decisions, turning that understanding into strategies that move businesses forward. At Camino5, Ryan leads work through Paired Perspective™, the firm’s approach to connecting customer behavior across a fragmented landscape. The goal isn’t channel optimization in isolation, but strategic clarity that enables speed, alignment, and action. Ryan has partnered with global brands including Disney, P&G, NBCUniversal, Unilever, Chase, Nike, and Kaiser Permanente, as well as high-growth startups and emerging category leaders. His work has supported multiple unicorns, driven category-defining launches, and contributed to research that led to $20M-per-month business turnarounds. Ryan works with companies that believe strategy should create momentum and that growth starts with seeing the customer clearly. Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I sit down with Pete Sacco—entrepreneur, technologist, “modern-day mystic,” and a 30-year veteran of designing, building, and operating serious data centers. Pete is also the founder of Gray Wolf Data Centers, and he has a front-row seat to what AI is about to demand from our infrastructure—and from us as leaders.   What I loved about this conversation is the range: we go from the brutally practical realities of leadership (cash flow, culture, motivating people) to the big human questions AI forces into the open: Who are we when our “work” no longer defines our value? And how do we stay grounded, connected, and useful in the middle of a technological hockey stick?   In this episode, we covered:   1) Pete’s 4-part framework for modern leadership Pete lays out what he sees as “endemic” to great leadership today: Master cash flow (because nothing survives without it) Know whether you’re a visionary or an integrator (and don’t pretend you’re both) Be the master motivator (the era of fear-based leadership is over) Own the culture (and use story as one of your most powerful tools to shape it)   2) Storytelling as culture-engineering We dig into why stories are more than “nice to have.” Stories become the myths that create the mythology of a company—how values become behavior at scale. And if you want to influence culture, yesterday was easier than today.   3) The next AI infrastructure shift: from training to inferencing Pete breaks down the difference between: Training LLMs (building the model) Inferencing (asking the model questions in real time—what most people experience as “prompting”) Then he takes it further: the next wave isn’t human inferencing—it’s machine inferencing. Robots, cars, devices, sensors… constantly asking “what do I do next?” at massive scale.   4) Why “edge” data centers are coming back Pete predicts we’ll move away from only massive, centralized “mega” campuses toward distributed, high-performance data centers near the edge—“in every town,” similar to telecom “points of presence” in the 1990s. That’s the strategic thesis behind Gray Wolf Data Centers.     5) The modern mystic: mind, body, and the inner game Pete shares a candid chapter of his own life—anxiety, therapy, CBT, and a pivotal lesson: don’t make the events you can’t control your “problems.” He connects this to resilience through sleep, health practices, and the belief that we can reshape the mind through neuroplasticity—and even how he sees us as “quantum beings,” responsible for how we observe and choose our reality.   6) A hopeful thesis: “good AI” vs “bad AI” + post-scarcity We touch the fear many people carry (yes, I mention growing up in the Terminator era), but Pete offers a provocative counter: the way we beat bad AI is with good AI—models designed around human flourishing and shared broadly as a public service. He believes we’re headed through disruption toward post-scarcity, and that our descendants will wonder why we didn’t support each other sooner.   7) The closing leadership message: “we are all one” Pete’s final note is the one that matters most to me: we’re all connected—and we’re here for each other. In my book, that’s not just a spiritual idea; it’s a leadership standard.   -----   Resources Mentioned: Pete’s company: Gray Wolf Data Centers Pete’s book: Living in Bliss: Achieve a Balanced Existence of Body, Mind and Spirit Pete’s site: PeteSacco.com (signed copies + meditation materials) Dr. David Burns: The Feel Good Handbook Dan Sullivan: Who Not How (and other referenced works) Peter Diamandis: longevity reference   -----   If you want to apply this immediately: Ask yourself: Am I the visionary or the integrator here? (And who do I need as my counterbalance?) Choose one cultural value you care about—and tell a story that proves it. If AI is making you anxious, zoom out: are you preparing for the training era, or the inferencing era?   -----   https://petesacco.com Pete Sacco is a visionary entrepreneur, technologist, and modern-day mystic who blends conscious leadership with breakthrough innovation. As the founder of multiple ventures—including PTS Data Center Solutions, INTUVA, GRID7, InstaGuardIP, and Gray Wolf Data Centers—Pete has led transformative initiatives across AI, energy, blockchain, and digital infrastructure. His journey from electrical engineer to spiritual author and advisor reflects a rare fusion of high performance and inner awakening. Pete is the author of Living in Bliss: Achieve a Balanced Existence of Body, Mind, and Spirit, a guide for high achievers seeking fulfillment beyond success. A finalist for Ernst & Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year, Pete holds a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from Fairleigh Dickinson University, and serves on the advisory board of its School of Computer Sciences and Engineering. Based in New Jersey, he helps purpose-driven professionals unlock clarity, vitality, and purpose—one system, one person, and one moment at a time.  Ready to make your communication a match for how good you really are? John K. Bates provides private executive communication coaching and leadership development for accomplished leaders and teams. His programs have earned 92+ Net Promoter Scores with organizations including NASA, Johnson & Johnson, Google, Intuit, and Boston Scientific. Explore private coaching and leadership programs:https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/ Build your communication practice with John’s free weekly mini-trainings:https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings/

Today I sit down with Kelly Abbott, one of my absolute best friends and someone I have known for more than 20 years, and we get into a conversation I think all of us need to be having right now. Kelly is one of the most talented CIOs, internet entrepreneurs, and technology minds I know, and what I appreciate most about him is that he does not approach AI like a hype man. He approaches it like a builder, an artist, a strategist, and a deeply curious human being. That combination is rare. What really stands out to me in this conversation is that Kelly is not using AI in a shallow, gimmicky way. He is exploring how it can become a genuine creative partner. He walks me through a project he has built called Writer’s Room, a tool designed to simulate the collaborative energy of a real writers room so people can develop long-form fiction with multiple AI personas, story structure, quality control, continuity, and creative tension built in. It is a fascinating example of what becomes possible when you stop thinking about AI as a shortcut and start thinking about it as a thought partner. We also talk about the AI-generated video he created for Seven CTOs, and this part of the conversation opens up something deeper than tools alone. Kelly shares how he used AI to translate an inner idea into a full creative artifact by scripting with ChatGPT, shaping voice in ElevenLabs, experimenting with music, and embracing imagery, archetype, and non-deterministic outputs along the way. One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is hearing him describe why he chose an unexpected narrator voice and how he thinks about the relationship between text, emotion, music, image, and trust. It is a masterclass in taste, not just tech. We also get honest about the tension many people feel around AI. I say in the episode that I am less worried about AI destroying the world by itself than I am about people using it stupidly and at scale. Kelly does not brush that off. He agrees that the concern is real, and he makes a strong case that the answer is not avoidance. The answer is learning. He talks about why he teaches Claude in particular, why he respects Anthropic’s stance on safety, and why becoming capable with these tools puts you in the driver’s seat instead of leaving you vulnerable to being outpaced by them. Another piece I love is that this conversation is not just about AI in the abstract. It becomes personal. Kelly starts exploring what it could look like to use tools like NotebookLM to understand my body of work more deeply, surface the real pain points my clients face, and eventually help build something like an on-demand “Johnny brain” people could interact with for coaching and insight. That is where this episode gets especially exciting to me, because it moves from fascination to application. We are not just asking what AI is. We are asking how to use it in service of real communication, real creativity, real usefulness, and real human connection. And then, because life is funny and friendship matters, we close by telling the story of how Kelly and I first met on a flight to South by Southwest. It starts with him defending an empty seat, me walking back up the aisle in a too-tight Flash T-shirt, and Kelly greeting me with, “I don’t like you very much right now.” What followed was a conversation, a weekend, and a friendship that has lasted for decades. Honestly, that ending says a lot about this whole episode. Beneath all the tools and ideas is something more important: curiosity, candor, play, and the willingness to engage what is right in front of you. This episode matters because AI is not coming someday. It is here. And like it or not, all of us need to get familiar with what it can do, where it helps, where it misleads, and how to use it without giving up our judgment, our values, or our originality. That is why I expect this to become a semi-regular part of the podcast.   Key Takeaways AI becomes far more useful when you treat it as a creative partner rather than a magic shortcut. Kelly’s “Writer’s Room” concept shows how AI can simulate diverse voices, roles, and editorial functions to strengthen storytelling and idea development. A learner’s mindset still matters as much as any tool. Kelly says one of his advantages has always been being “a page ahead in the manual” because he stayed up learning. Great AI output still depends on human taste, curation, and judgment. The tools can generate, but the human being still has to choose. Non-deterministic outputs are not always a flaw. In creative work, unpredictability can actually produce something more alive and surprising. Voice, music, and image are not separate from strategy. They shape trust, tone, and emotional impact. AI literacy is quickly becoming a real professional advantage. The people who learn how to use these tools well will be far less likely to be overwhelmed by them. Safety matters. Kelly makes a clear distinction between powerful use and careless use, which is one reason he emphasizes Claude and Anthropic’s public posture around AI safety. The future is not only about automating tasks. It is also about making your ideas more discoverable, more creative, and more accessible to the people you serve. Friendship, curiosity, and long conversations still matter. Some of the best ideas begin with a human relationship, not a prompt.   Addressing Relevant Issues This conversation touches a nerve that a lot of people are feeling right now. We are living through a moment where AI is moving faster than most people can comfortably track, and that creates a strange mix of excitement, intimidation, skepticism, and risk. This episode speaks directly to that. We get into leadership, creativity, communication, entrepreneurship, technology, safety, and discernment. We also touch the deeper issue underneath all of it, which is whether we are going to let technology flatten our humanity or help us express it more powerfully. To me, that is the real issue. Not whether AI exists, but whether we develop the judgment, character, and skill to use it well.   Why This Episode Matters This episode matters to me personally because Kelly is not just a brilliant technologist. He is someone I trust. That matters a lot in a space where there is so much noise, so much hype, and so much confident nonsense. What really stands out to me is that Kelly brings both depth and play to this conversation. He understands the technical side, but he also understands voice, story, aesthetics, and what makes something actually resonate. I think listeners will come away with something rare here: not just more information about AI, but a healthier and more useful way to think about it. And honestly, I care about this because I do believe we all need to start getting familiar with what these tools can do. The people who learn thoughtfully are going to be in a much stronger position than the people who ignore this and hope it goes away.   Resources Mentioned Writer’s Room Studio — https://writersrooms.studio/ Kelly’s AI video — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XteCrxWZIvA ElevenLabs — https://elevenlabs.io/ Mother / music sample generation invite — https://mother.is/invite/USER-D071D3FA Ideogram — https://ideogram.ai/ Google Flow — https://labs.google/fx/tools/flow NotebookLM — https://notebooklm.google.com/ BOL Agency — https://www.bol-agency.com/ The K State — https://thekstate.com/   Connect & Subscribe If this conversation gave you something to think about, subscribe to Live Like a Leader, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who is trying to make sense of AI, leadership, creativity, or where communication is headed next.   Next Steps A good next step is to spend a little time with Kelly’s work and then actually try one of the tools we discuss. Don’t just have an opinion about AI from a distance. Get your hands on it. Explore it. Test it. See where it helps, where it falls short, and where your own judgment needs to get stronger. And if this conversation resonates, stay with us, because this is going to be an ongoing part of the show. -----   Kelly Abbott is Chief AI Officer at BOL Agency and founder of K-State LLC, where he helps organizations stop talking about AI and start operating with it. A two-time exit founder (Match.com, Adobe), Kelly now builds AI-native systems for marketing agencies, law firms, and enterprise teams. He trains teams on Claude, designs agentic workflows, and creates products at the intersection of AI, music, and creative technology. He lives in Washougal, WA with his family. Ohio State alum. Still writing stories.  --------John Bates provides 1:1 Executive Communications Coaching, both in-person and online. He also gets 92+ Net Promoter Scores for his large and small group leadership development trainings at organizations like Johnson & Johnson, NASA, Google, Intuit, Boston Scientific, and many more. Find more at https://executivespeakingsuccess.com.Sign up for his weekly micro-trainings for free at https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings and create a great leadership communications habit that makes you the kind of leader who inspires trust, loyalty, and connection.

Today I sit down with my dear friend Sebastian Bates. Seb and I first met when he was a client of mine, and from the beginning, I was deeply impressed by him—by his drive, his heart, his courage, and the sheer scale of what he is building in the world. He is one of those rare people who combine intensity with purpose, and ambition with service. I respect him tremendously. In this conversation, Seb shares the extraordinary story of a wingsuit BASE jumping accident in the Dolomites that nearly killed him and left doctors telling him he would never walk again. He takes us inside the physical agony, the long rehabilitation, the identity shift, and the fierce defiance that helped him come back from one of the lowest points of his life. From there, we go back into his childhood, including years of bullying and the role martial arts played in helping him develop the confidence, discipline, and character to stand up for himself. That early pain became part of the seed for what would later become Warrior Academy—now the largest martial arts academy in the Middle East, serving more than 10,000 children every week. We also talk about fatherhood, purpose, and the moment Seb realized he could no longer live only for adrenaline and adventure. After becoming a dad, he redirected that same intensity into business, leadership, and service. Out of that journey came not only Warrior Academy, but also the Bates Foundation, which now serves thousands of vulnerable and at-risk children each week in some of the toughest environments on earth. One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is Seb’s conviction that everything is downstream from character. If you can help a child build confidence, emotional intelligence, resilience, focus, and self-respect, you can help change the decisions they make—and in many cases, change the course of their lives. That philosophy is now reaching children in slums and deeply impoverished communities, where the Bates Foundation is combining martial arts, mentoring, nourishment, and hope in ways that are deeply moving and profoundly practical. We also spend time talking about communication and storytelling—how Seb refined his message, what happens when a great story is truly shaped to land with an audience, and why the smallest details in delivery can create a nonlinear leap in impact. That part of the conversation meant a lot to me personally. Most of all, this episode is about what can happen when pain becomes purpose, when adventure becomes service, and when leadership becomes something much bigger than personal success.   Key Takeaways A near-fatal accident can become a turning point rather than an ending. Character development shapes decisions, and decisions shape lives. Martial arts can become a vehicle for confidence, self-respect, emotional regulation, and leadership in children. Bullying often cannot be solved for a child; they need support, tools, and character to overcome it themselves. Fatherhood changed Seb’s relationship to risk and redirected his life toward service. The Bates Foundation is built around a powerful idea: help children build character, belonging, and hope—and you help change their future. Great storytelling is not just about having lived through something extraordinary; it is about learning how to bring others into the moment so the story serves them too. Small refinements in communication can create a dramatic increase in impact.   Addressing Relevant Issue This conversation touches on several issues that matter deeply right now: childhood bullying, mentorship, ADHD and identity, emotional resilience, absent support systems, fatherhood, vulnerable youth, and the importance of building strong inner character in a world that often fails children who need support most. It also speaks to a bigger leadership question: how do we turn our pain, our setbacks, and our gifts into something that serves others?   Why This Episode Matters I really, really like Seb, and that comes through here. He has become a dear friend, and I support his mission tremendously. What he is doing through Warrior Academy and the Bates Foundation is not theoretical. It is practical, courageous, compassionate work that is changing real lives. If this episode moves you, I hope you’ll do more than listen. I hope you’ll check out the Foundation and consider contributing to the work.   Next Steps Learn more about Sebastian Bates, Warrior Academy, and especially The Bates Foundation. And if you’re in a position to support meaningful work in the world, I encourage you to take a serious look at what Seb and his team are doing. Connect with Seb on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sebastian-bates-4b70412b/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Seb_bates Warrior Academy: warrioracademy.ae   Visit livelikealeader.show for more episodes and resources.  --------John Bates provides 1:1 Executive Communications Coaching, both in-person and online. He also gets 92+ Net Promoter Scores for his large and small group leadership development trainings at organizations like Johnson & Johnson, NASA, Google, Intuit, Boston Scientific, and many more. Find more at https://executivespeakingsuccess.com.Sign up for his weekly micro-trainings for free at https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings and create a great leadership communications habit that makes you the kind of leader who inspires trust, loyalty, and connection.

Today I sit down with cybersecurity experts Jay Korpi and Jeremy Dodson, two men I genuinely respect and really enjoy talking with. Jeremy and Jay came through Media Mastery Experts, and I think they are total salt-of-the-earth great guys. They also happen to be unusually deep thinkers with backgrounds in cybersecurity, attack emulation, AI, consulting, and systems design, so this conversation goes far beyond tech. What really stands out to me is that, underneath all the jargon and complexity, this episode is about leadership, trust, judgment, and responsibility. We begin with the world they know best: risk. Jay and Jeremy explain that although many people think they are simply cybersecurity consultants, the deeper truth is that they are really helping organizations understand business risk. That distinction matters. They are not just asking whether a company can pass a test or satisfy an insurance requirement. They are asking what risk a company is accepting, whether that risk is intentional, and whether leadership has built the right policies, defaults, and guardrails to support people when pressure hits. One of the most powerful ideas in this conversation is Jeremy’s point that under pressure, people do not rise to their intentions. They fall to their defaults. That is a profound leadership insight, and it applies far beyond security.   From there, the conversation opens into one of the biggest issues leaders are wrestling with right now: AI. Jay and Jeremy are not anti-AI, not even close. They are building with it. But they are deeply clear-eyed about the danger of using it lazily. We talk about how AI can create an “easy button” mentality, how it can blur credibility when leaders stop thinking for themselves, and why the real job is not to let AI do your thinking but to let it sharpen the thinking you are already doing. I was especially struck by Jeremy’s framing that AI should amplify rigor, curiosity, and expertise, not overwrite them. In other words, if you are thoughtful, it can make you better. If you are sloppy, it can make you sloppier at scale.   We also talk about the future they see coming: more niche, purpose-built AI tools, and a growing need to make team knowledge more usable across an organization. Jeremy describes a problem many leaders already feel without having language for it: people across a company are building valuable context inside separate AI conversations, but that knowledge often stays fragmented. Their work points toward a future where better systems can help organizations preserve decision-making context, reduce duplicated effort, and bring people into the loop faster and more intelligently. That part of the episode is especially relevant for founders, executives, and anyone trying to help a team move with more speed and less confusion.   Then the conversation gets even more interesting, because Jay and Jeremy bring all of this back to something very human. They share stories from attack work and real-world breaches, including one wild story about trying to access the literal “keys to the kingdom” in a municipality. It is fascinating on the surface, but the deeper lesson is not about movie-style hacking. It is about how ordinary blind spots, unclear access policies, and human behavior create vulnerabilities. Again and again, the issue is not magic. It is systems, habits, assumptions, and culture.   What really lands for me, though, is where we end. Jay makes the case that leadership communication cannot just be top-down. It has to come from the bottom up too. Leaders have to make it safe for people to tell the truth, safe for people to admit mistakes, and safe for people closest to the work to surface the real problems. He talks about being out on the floor, listening to the people with boots on the ground, asking what is getting in their way, and then removing those obstacles so they can do their jobs. That, to me, is real leadership. Not control for its own sake. Not authority for ego’s sake. Service. Clarity. Trust. And the humility to build systems that help people do the right thing when things get hard. This is a conversation about cybersecurity and AI on the surface. But underneath, it is a conversation about character, leadership under pressure, how culture is built, and why judgment still matters more than tools. That is why I think this one is worth your time.   Key Takeaways Leadership is not just about setting intentions. It is about creating defaults and guardrails that still hold when people are under pressure. Cybersecurity is not merely a technical issue. It is a business risk issue that includes systems, people, policies, and culture. AI should refine and amplify human judgment, not replace it. Used carelessly, it can scale bad thinking just as fast as good thinking. Leaders can damage their own organizations when they hold on to unnecessary access in the name of control. Ownership does not automatically mean you should have admin rights to everything.   One of the most overlooked risks in organizations is internal movement. People often accumulate access over time and keep permissions they no longer need. The most resilient cultures are the ones where employees feel safe admitting mistakes quickly, so the team can respond and fix the problem. Bottom-up communication matters. Leaders need to hear from the people closest to the work, not just the people highest in the org chart. Small and mid-sized companies cannot afford to treat risk casually. For them, wise risk decisions can become a real competitive differentiator. The future of AI is likely to reward specific, purpose-built use cases and better knowledge-sharing across teams, not just bigger generic tools.     Addressing Relevant Issues This episode touches a nerve that a lot of leaders are feeling right now. We are living in a moment where AI is accelerating decision-making, cybersecurity threats are growing more sophisticated, and many organizations are still operating with outdated assumptions about trust, access, and authority. But beyond the technology, this conversation is really about leadership maturity. We talk about control, ego, communication, organizational culture, and what happens when people are afraid to speak up. We talk about service-minded leadership, the discipline of listening, and the responsibility leaders have to create systems that support good judgment instead of assuming good intentions are enough. That matters right now in business, in culture, and in every organization trying to move fast without breaking trust.       Why This Episode Matters This episode matters to me because Jay and Jeremy are the kind of guys I want more of in the conversation. They are smart, experienced, technically serious, and at the same time deeply grounded. They are not performing expertise. They have earned it. And what I appreciate is that they do not stop at the technical layer. They keep bringing it back to people, culture, responsibility, and leadership. I also think this conversation matters because a lot of leaders are being tempted right now by speed, convenience, and the illusion of control. Jay and Jeremy remind us that tools do not remove the need for judgment. In many ways, they make that need even greater. And if their work resonates with you, I’d encourage you to learn more about what they’re building, because they are thinking about some very real problems in a very thoughtful way.   Resources Mentioned Piqued Solutions — https://piqued.solutions/ Jay Korpi on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaykorpi/ Jeremy Dodson on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremydodson332/ Jay and Jeremy’s work around access, onboarding, offboarding, and leadership-aligned system defaults — https://provisionr.io/    Connect & Subscribe If this conversation gave you something to think about, subscribe to the show, leave a review, and share this episode with a leader, founder, or team member who cares about building trust, making better decisions, and leading well under pressure.   Next Steps Take a look at Jay and Jeremy’s work at Piqued Solutions and Provisionr.io. Connect with them on LinkedIn, and think honestly about this question inside your own organization: where are we relying on good intentions when we should be building better defaults, better communication, and better trust?  --------John Bates provides 1:1 Executive Communications Coaching, both in-person and online. He also gets 92+ Net Promoter Scores for his large and small group leadership development trainings at organizations like Johnson & Johnson, NASA, Google, Intuit, Boston Scientific, and many more. Find more at https://executivespeakingsuccess.com.Sign up for his weekly micro-trainings for free at https://johnbates.com/mini-trainings and create a great leadership communications habit that makes you the kind of leader who inspires trust, loyalty, and connection.