Getting Your Strategy Right With Kevin Ertell

Welcome to episode #1026 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when strategy has become a kind of corporate theater… carefully crafted presentations, ambitious roadmaps and bold declarations that rarely survive first contact with reality… Kevin Ertell has spent a career focused on the harder question: why execution so often fails. Kevin is the Founder and CEO of Mistere Advisory and a veteran operator whose three decades of experience include leading large-scale retail and e-commerce operations at global brands like Nike, Sur La Table, Borders, and Tower Records. Over the years he has developed a reputation as a straight-talking advisor who helps leaders turn complexity into clarity and ambition into measurable results. His work spans industries including technology, healthcare, retail, consumer goods and manufacturing, where he focuses on helping organizations align teams, simplify priorities and build the operating rhythms required to deliver on their plans. In his new book, The Strategy Trap - Why Companies Fail at Execution and How to Get It Right, Kevin draws on decades of frontline experience to tackle a frustrating reality of modern business: most strategies don't fail on paper… they fail in the real world. Through practical frameworks like his Six Cs of Execution (Co-creation, Clarity, Capacity, Communication, Coordination and Coaching) he argues that strategy and execution must begin in the same room, with teams co-creating the plan and committing to disciplined follow-through. Kevin explores how incentives shape behavior, why organizations must slow down to create clarity before accelerating, and how leadership cultures built around coaching and collaboration can unlock real momentum. Grounded in operational experience rather than theory, his work reframes strategy not as a planning exercise but as a team sport that requires alignment, accountability and relentless focus on execution. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:44. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Kevin Ertell. The Strategy Trap - Why Companies Fail at Execution and How to Get It Right. Mistere Advisory. Get The Strategy Trap newsletter. Follow Kevin on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Kevin Ertell and his Expertise. (02:51) - The Evolution of E-commerce and Digital Strategy. (06:03) - Understanding the Strategy Trap. (08:57) - The Importance of Execution in Strategy. (12:02) - Communication and Team Dynamics in Strategy. (14:47) - Co-Creation and Employee Engagement. (17:55) - The Role of Customers in Strategy. (21:04) - Defining the Strategy Trap and Its Implications. (30:01) - Navigating Change: The Role of Detractors in Strategy. (32:47) - The Rise and Fall of Retail Giants: Lessons from JCPenney. (40:58) - Harnessing AI: Transforming Strategy and Productivity. (49:01) - Coaching Mindset: The Key to Effective Leadership. (53:06) - Anticipating the Future: Understanding Change and Context.

Welcome to episode #1025 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when panic travels faster than proof, few marketers are as clear-eyed… and as human… as Ann Handley. A pioneering digital marketing strategist (MarketingProfs), bestselling author (Everybody Writes and Content Rules), longtime champion of writing that actually means something and dear friend (also, if you're not susbscribed to her newsletter, Total Annarchy, you really should be), Ann has built a career reminding businesses that the point of content isn't velocity… it's connection. In her recent essay, Something Messy Is Happening: On AI, Panic, and Asking Better Questions, she pushes back against the apocalyptic certainty surrounding AI job displacement and challenges the framing that faster always wins. Responding to venture capitalist Matt Shumer's argument, Something Big Is Happening, that AI will eliminate half of white-collar work within a few years, Ann dissects the seductive panic embedded in exponential curves and racing metaphors, arguing that technological capability does not equal economic inevitability. She reminds us that adoption is human-shaped, that judgment compounds when speed becomes cheap, and that friction is often where thinking actually happens. Rather than choosing between "adapt or die," Ann advocates for a steadier path: use the tools, reject the hysteria, protect the work that builds trust, expertise and meaning over time. Grounded in curiosity rather than fear, her perspective reframes the moment not as a race to outrun machines but as an invitation to ask better questions about what we're building… and why. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 56:04. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Ann Handley. Total Annarchy. MarketingProfs. Everybody Writes. Content Rules. Something Messy Is Happening: On AI, Panic, and Asking Better Questions. Something Big Is Happening by Matt Shume. Follow Ann on LinkedIn. Follow Ann on Threads. Follow Ann on Instagram. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction and Context of AI's Viral Impact. (01:21) - How Ann Uses AI to Strengthen Thinking. (03:43) - The Limitations and Human Control of AI. (05:09) - Content Structure and AI's Role in Creativity. (07:11) - AI's Proximity to Human Work and Its Implications. (11:09) - Extrapolating AI's Impact on Jobs and Society. (13:58) - The Emotional and Societal Response to AI. (18:45) - The Surprising Capabilities of AI in Judgment. (21:35) - The Role of Human Judgment and Creativity. (27:20) - The Impact of SEO and Content Homogenization. (29:58) - AI's Ability to Mimic Human Taste and Judgment. (36:40) - Balancing AI Use with Human Integrity. (39:36) - The Race for Content and Creativity in AI Era. (42:58) - Speed Culture and Its Discontents.. (50:34) - Navigating AI's Role in Society and Creativity. (52:50) - The Future of Creativity and AI's Impact. (54:24) - Personal Reflections on AI's Transformative Power.

Welcome to episode #1024 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when the digital infrastructure that underpins modern life feels increasingly hostile, few voices have been as prescient... or as relentless... as Cory Doctorow. A science fiction novelist, journalist and technology activist, Cory serves as Special Advisor to the Electronic Frontier Foundation and has long stood at the intersection of storytelling, policy and power. Over the course of a prolific career (one that includes bestselling fiction, influential tech policy books like Chokepoint Capitalism and The Internet Con, and his widely read Pluralistic blog) Cory has chronicled how digital markets consolidate, calcify and ultimately betray their users. His latest nonfiction work, Enshittification - Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse And What To Do About It, gives a name to the slow degradation of online platforms: the predictable cycle in which services begin by delighting users, then exploit them, then squeeze the businesses that depend on them, until only monopoly power remains. Cory situates this decline not as technological inevitability but as the result of specific policy choices that empowered monopolies and weakened enforcement. At the same time, Cory challenges the fatalism that often surrounds technological decline. Anti-circumvention laws, regulatory capture and collective action problems may constrain consumers, but they are not immovable forces. Cultural norms can shift. Policy can be rewritten. Markets can be redesigned. Grounded in economic literacy and moral urgency, Cory's work calls for ethical leadership, regulatory courage and a reclamation of agency in the systems that shape our digital lives. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:00:43. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Cory Doctorow. Enshittification - Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse And What To Do About It. Pluralistic. Chokepoint Capitalism. The Internet Con. Cory's books. Cory's newsletter. Follow Cory on X. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Cory Doctorow. (03:07) - The AI Bubble: Understanding the Economics. (06:08) - The Future of AI and Labor. (08:56) - Open Source Models and Their Potential. (11:50) - AI as a Tool: The Multiplier Effect. (14:50) - The Reality of AI's Impact on Society. (17:57) - Billionaire Perspectives and UBI. (20:56) - The Disconnect Between Wealth and Labor. (23:49) - The Future of Work in an AI-Driven World. (30:15) - The Illusion of Value in Economic Activity. (33:34) - The Crisis of Ethical Leadership. (36:56) - The Role of Policymakers in Corporate Behavior. (38:45) - Understanding Lock-In: Users and Businesses. (40:40) - The Impact of Monopolies and Monopsonies. (49:22) - The Need for Anti-Circumvention Law Repeal. (54:24) - Cultural Norms vs. Regulation in Consumer Behavior.

Welcome to episode #1023 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). In an era where outrage travels faster than reflection, few accusations carry as much moral force as the charge of hypocrisy… and yet few concepts are as misunderstood. Michael Hallsworth is Chief Behavioral Scientist at the Behavioral Insights Team and a leading voice in behavioral economics, with academic appointments at the University of Pennsylvania and a career devoted to understanding how real people actually think and act in complex systems. His research spans public policy, organizational behavior and social judgment, examining how incentives, norms, and cognitive biases shape everything from government programs to corporate decision-making. In his new book, The Hypocrisy Trap - How Changing What We Criticize Can Improve Our Lives, Michael challenges the conventional belief that hypocrisy is simply a moral failing to be stamped out. Instead, he reframes it as a process… an inconsistency we dislike because we believe someone is gaining an unjust benefit… and argues that relentless accusations can backfire, breeding cynicism, polarization, and institutional decay. Drawing on evolutionary psychology, behavioral science, and contemporary case studies, he distinguishes between common standards hypocrisy and the more corrosive double standards that undermine fairness itself. He explores how social media amplifies moralistic aggression, how public signaling can both distort and reshape behavior, and why tolerating certain forms of inconsistency may be necessary for leadership and democratic compromise. Rather than excusing deception, Michael calls for sharper discernment: identifying which inconsistencies cause real harm and which reflect the unavoidable trade-offs of human life. Grounded in rigorous scholarship yet strikingly practical, his work urges greater self-reflection, empathy and intellectual humility in a culture quick to condemn. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 55:05. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Michael Hallsworth. The Hypocrisy Trap - How Changing What We Criticize Can Improve Our Lives. Behavioral Insights Team. Michael's Substack, The Judgement Gap. Follow Michael on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Hypocrisy. (02:46) - Understanding the Nature of Hypocrisy. (05:49) - The Cultural and Historical Context of Hypocrisy. (08:51) - The Evolutionary Roots of Hypocrisy. (11:50) - The Role of Hypocrisy in Politics. (14:43) - Hypocrisy in Business and Society. (17:57) - The Hypocrisy Trap Explained. (20:56) - The Balance of Hypocrisy and Honesty. (23:41) - The Emotional Impact of Hypocrisy. (26:36) - Empathy and Self-Reflection in Hypocrisy. (31:32) - Understanding Hypocrisy and Its Implications. (36:16) - The Role of Social Media in Hypocrisy. (40:56) - Navigating Integrity and Leadership. (47:09) - The Complexity of Accusations and Context. (55:13) - Rethinking Hypocrisy and Forgiveness.

Welcome to episode #1022 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when organizational change is too often treated as a mandate rather than an experience people choose to embrace, Phil Gilbert has spent his career proving that transformation only sticks when it earns genuine buy-in. Phil is a design executive, transformation leader and former General Manager of Design at IBM, where he architected one of the largest cultural and operational shifts in corporate history, helping nearly 400,000 employees across 180 countries become more entrepreneurial, agile and customer-centered. Trained as both a designer and systems thinker, Phil brought design thinking out of studios and into the core of enterprise decision-making, reshaping how teams collaborated, how products were built, and how leaders understood their customers. His work at IBM addressed hard truths, including the company's struggles with usability and missed opportunities in the early cloud era, by treating change itself as a product worthy of rigor, investment, and care. That experience became the foundation for his book Irresistible Change - A Blueprint For Earning Buy-In And Breakout Success, which blends narrative and field guide to show how large organizations can scale transformation by focusing on people, practices, and environments rather than slogans or top-down directives. Phil's approach reframes culture as an outcome, not an initiative, arguing that lasting change emerges when employees see themselves in the future being designed. Beyond IBM, his work as an executive coach and advisor continues to focus on how leaders navigate complexity, align teams, and thoughtfully integrate technologies like AI into human systems without eroding trust or creativity. Grounded in real-world execution rather than theory, Phil's perspective challenges organizations to stop forcing change and start making it irresistible. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:49. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Phil Gilbert. Irresistible Change - A Blueprint For Earning Buy-In And Breakout Success. Follow Phil on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Phil Gilbert and His Journey. (01:26) - IBM's Transformation and Challenges. (04:17) - The Shift from Technology to Product. (10:55) - Implementing Design Thinking at IBM. (16:30) - Cultural Change and Its Impact on Outcomes. (22:53) - The Role of Teams in Transformation. (26:40) - Branding the Change: Hallmark Program. (32:22) - The Importance of Team Selection in Transformation. (34:59) - Creating Demand for Change. (37:23) - Agency and Team Resilience. (38:06) - IBM's Market Position and Transformation. (41:14) - The Shift in Work Dynamics. (44:46) - Rethinking Office Spaces. (48:58) - Irresistible Change and Transformation Failures. (53:51) - AI Integration and Market Forces. (59:38) - The Impact of Design Thinking on Business.

Welcome to episode #1021 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when strategy is often confused with forecasting and certainty is mistaken for rigor, the work of Roger Martininsists on a more demanding discipline: making clear, integrated choices under uncertainty. Named the world's #1 management thinker by Thinkers50 in 2017, Roger is a writer, strategy advisor, and the former Dean at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, where he served for fifteen years and reshaped how management education engages with real-world complexity. Over decades, he has advised CEOs at companies including Procter & Gamble, Lego, Ford, American Express, Verizon, and Steelcase, helping leaders move beyond abstract ambition toward actionable, coherent strategies. His thinking has long been a personal touchstone for navigating difficult, high-stakes business problems, and he remains my go-to guide when confronting complexity that resists easy answers… a familiarity reinforced by his return here after previous appearances. Before academia, he spent thirteen years at Monitor, serving as co-head of the firm and grounding his thinking in the realities of corporate decision-making. His newly updated book, Playing To Win, Expanded With Bonus HBR Articles - How Strategy Really Works co-authored with A.G. Lafley, remains one of the most influential strategy texts of the modern era, distilling strategy into a set of five integrated choices about where to play and how to win, supported by capabilities and systems that reinforce those decisions. Across thirteen books and more than thirty Harvard Business Review articles, Roger has explored integrative thinking, democratic capitalism, governance and the design of business itself, consistently challenging leaders to resist false tradeoffs and simplistic answers. His work confronts contemporary issues head-on: the misuse of AI as an answer machine rather than a thinking partner, the hollowing out of education into ideological extremes, the erosion of institutional trust and the persistent illusion that the future must resemble the past. Through it all, his argument is steady and clear: strategy fundamentals endure, and superior managerial effectiveness begins with disciplined thinking, principled choice, and the courage to commit. If you're not following his free Substack, you reall should. It's always an honor to spend tie with Roger. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:39. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Roger Martin. His free Substack. Playing To Win, Expanded With Bonus HBR Articles - How Strategy Really Works. Follow Roger on X.  Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Roger Martin. (02:53) - The Evolution of AI in Strategy. (06:05) - AI as a Thought Partner vs. Answer Provider. (09:02) - The Role of Diversity in Decision Making. (11:49) - The Impact of Education on Polarization. (15:15) - The Misapplication of Science in Society. (18:09) - Navigating Truth in Business. (21:08) - The Experimentation Mindset in Business. (31:55) - The Flaws in Business Education. (34:37) - Philosophical Perspectives on Decision Making. (40:21) - The Impact of Macro Factors on Business. (49:20) - The Shift in Global Economic Power. (55:23) - Skepticism Towards Economic Predictions. (58:01) - Trust in the Health Profession.

Welcome to episode #1020 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when technology listens more closely than people realize and advertising feels less predictive than presumptive, understanding how culture, data and human behavior collide has become essential. David "Shingy" Shing has spent his career at that intersection, shaping how global brands think about creativity, relevance and the emotional consequences of digital systems. Know as the Digital Prophet at AOL (and then Verizon) and a very influential voice in modern branding and innovation, Shingy has advised companies, leaders and creatives on how emerging technologies reshape not just markets, but meaning itself. His work has consistently challenged organizations to move beyond optimization toward empathy, imagination and cultural intelligence. He argues that the most important signals in a data-saturated world are often the quietest ones. That perspective now finds a more personal, reflective outlet in his Substack, Shingy, a newsletter focused on branding, culture, AI and the human side of technology. He explores how conversational data, algorithmic inference and attention-driven business models are altering the relationship between consumers and the systems designed to serve them. Shingy examines why ads increasingly feel intrusive rather than helpful, how conversations themselves have become raw material for targeting and why consumer fatigue is less about frequency than about lost agency. Shingy's work surfaces a growing tension between personalization and privacy, usefulness and surveillance, convenience and control. He argues that as machines become better listeners, brands must become better stewards of restraint, intent and respect... or risk eroding the very relationships they're trying to monetize. Grounded in curiosity and creative provocation, his thinking offers a necessary counterweight to an industry too often obsessed with what can be done instead of what should be done. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:31. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with David "Shingy" Shing. Shingy's Substack. Follow Shingy on Instagram. Follow Shingy on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of Digital and Consumer Behavior. (05:01) - Generative AI: A New Paradigm. (10:02) - Creativity in the Age of AI. (20:11) - Marketing in a Changing Landscape. (32:10) - The Shift from Influence to Interpretation. (35:03) - The Evolution of Content Creation. (39:00) - Niche Markets and the New Mass. (44:07) - The Complexity of Advertising and Intent. (51:03) - Power Dynamics in the Age of AI. (57:02) - The Future of Creativity and Connection.

Welcome to episode #1019 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when leadership is being tested less by strategy and more by inner capacity, clarity of judgment and emotional steadiness, the work of Muriel Wilkins stands out for its insistence that progress begins from the inside out. Muriel is an executive coach, CEO of Paravis Partners, and a trusted advisor to senior leaders navigating complexity at the highest levels of organizations, drawing on more than two decades of experience working with C-suite executives and high-potential leaders. A Harvard Business School graduate with a background in consulting and corporate leadership, she brings uncommon credibility to the often-abstract world of coaching, pairing business fluency with deep insight into human behavior, adult development and decision-making under pressure. Her book, Leadership Unblocked - Break Through The Beliefs That Limit Your Potential, distills years of coaching practice into a clear-eyed examination of the unconscious beliefs that quietly constrain leaders, revealing how assumptions about control, certainty, identity and responsibility shape  (and often limit) how leaders respond to challenge. Rather than offering tactical fixes or performative confidence, Muriel's work focuses on expanding a leader's capacity to hold complexity, see multiple options and respond with intention rather than reflex. She explores how leaders mature over time, why success can actually stall growth, and how unexamined beliefs turn everyday pressure into unnecessary suffering. Her perspective reframes leadership development as adult development, emphasizing that the ability to lead others sustainably depends on a leader's willingness to do their own internal work. In an era defined by uncertainty, generational shifts and accelerating technology, Muriel's thinking argues for a quieter but more demanding form of leadership... one rooted in self-awareness, discernment and the courage to question one's own mental models before attempting to change anyone else's. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 52:33. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Muriel Wilkins. Leadership Unblocked - Break Through The Beliefs That Limit Your Potential. Paravis Partner. Coaching Real Leaders Podcast. Follow Muriel on Instagram. Follow Muriel on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Executive Coaching. (02:13) - The Journey to Coaching. (05:26) - Common Themes in Leadership. (07:37) - The Evolution of Executive Coaching. (10:50) - Leadership as Coaching. (11:49) - Generational Shifts in Leadership. (15:08) - Adult Development and Leadership. (17:57) - The Illusion of Status. (20:55) - Authenticity in Leadership. (24:42) - Adult Development Theory in Practice. (26:41) - Understanding Adult Development Theory. (30:04) - The Evolution of Coaching Practices. (32:12) - Shifting Perspectives on Leadership. (34:53) - The Role of AI in Leadership. (39:47) - Discernment and Decision-Making in Leadership. (47:44) - Navigating Current Challenges in Leadership.  

Welcome to episode #1018 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a moment when burnout is normalized and productivity is still measured by hours rather than impact, the five-day workweek is starting to look less like a foundation of modern life and more like an outdated design choice. Joe O'Connoris the CEO of Work Time Revolution and one of the world's leading architects of the four-day workweek, having designed and led large-scale pilots across multiple countries, industries and organizational types. His work sits at the intersection of labor economics, organizational culture and performance design, helping companies rethink how work actually gets done in a knowledge-based, AI-accelerated economy. Joe has advised governments, nonprofits and private-sector leaders on how to redesign work in ways that improve employee well-being while maintaining (or increasing) organizational performance, challenging deeply held assumptions about time, output and commitment. His new book, Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek (with co-author Jared Lindzon), brings together research, real-world case studies and global experimentation to argue that the five-day workweek is neither inevitable nor optimal. Joe shows how reducing work time can sharpen focus, improve equity and force organizations to confront outdated productivity metrics built for an industrial era. He also examines how AI is accelerating the need for new work models, exposing the inefficiencies of activity-based measurement and pushing leaders to define productivity in terms of outcomes, not presence. Grounded in data yet pragmatic about cultural resistance, Joe's perspective positions the four-day workweek not as an employee concession, but as a competitive advantage for organizations willing to rethink the rules of work before the market forces them to. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 55:55. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Joe O'Connor. Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek. Work Time Revolution. Jared Lindzon. Follow Joe on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of the Work Week. (02:57) - Rethinking Productivity in the Age of AI. (05:50) - Work-Life Balance: A Modern Dilemma. (09:09) - The Four-Day Work Week: A Societal Aspiration. (12:08) - AI's Impact on Work Structures. (15:03) - Cultural Dynamics in Work Environments. (17:58) - Challenges in Implementing Change. (21:09) - Market Forces and the Future of Work. (29:56) - The Evolution of the Four-Day Work Week. (35:30) - Measuring Productivity in a New Work Model. (42:15) - Cultural Dynamics and Leadership in the Four-Day Work Week. (48:55) - AI's Role in Shaping Future Work Models. (53:22) - Gender Equality and Flexibility in the Workplace.

Welcome to episode #1017 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when technology promises limitless capability yet leaves so many people mentally depleted, the question is no longer whether digital tools are powerful, but whether we know how to live with them. Paul Leonardi is a leading expert on digital transformation, the future of work, and organizational networks, with more than two decades of research and advisory work focused on how technology reshapes collaboration, innovation, and human behavior. A professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, where he holds the Duca Family Endowed Chair and chairs the Department of Technology Management, Paul has advised Fortune 500 companies, startups, and nonprofits on navigating the people side of technological change. His work has shaped global conversations, translating rigorous research into practical frameworks leaders can actually use. His latest book, Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life, confronts a growing paradox of modern work and life: technologies that make everything possible are also wearing us down. Drawing on years of research and real-world observation, Paul explains why digital exhaustion isn't simply about screen time, but about constant task switching, inference-making in data-saturated environments, and the emotional toll of being perpetually reachable. He examines how capitalist incentives and addictive design amplify fatigue, why generational differences don't offer immunity, and how the collapse of clear boundaries between work, home, and identity has created a new baseline of psychological strain. Rather than advocating withdrawal or digital detoxes, Paul offers a more realistic path rooted in intentionality, clearer norms, and conscious choices about which tools deserve our attention. His work reframes exhaustion not as personal failure, but as a systemic condition that can be managed through better design, better habits, and a more humane relationship with technology. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:02:56. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Paul Leonardi. Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life. The Digital Mindset. Follow Paul on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Digital Exhaustion. (02:48) - The Dark Side of Technology. (06:13) - The Role of Capitalism in Digital Overwhelm. (09:00) - Generational Perspectives on Technology. (11:55) - The Search for Baselines in Digital Interaction. (14:54) - The Psychological and Physical Aspects of Exhaustion. (17:46) - Addiction to Technology. (20:55) - Strategies for Managing Digital Tools. (23:52) - The Complexity of Productivity in the Digital Age. (26:51) - The Future of AI and Digital Interaction. (32:37) - The Data Arms Race and Human Representation. (34:58) - The Shift from Attention to Intimacy Economy. (38:02) - Default Urgency and Social Norms in Communication. (42:19) - The Power of Intentional Response. (46:00) - Attention Span: Short vs. Long. (53:02) - The Joy of Missing Out vs. Fear of Missing Out. (56:35) - Parenting in the Age of Social Media.