Can Oil-Dependent Countries Prepare for an Energy Transition, with Andrea Furnaro and Patrick Heller

In this episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Andrea Furnaro and Patrick Heller from the Natural Resource Governance Institute. Drawing from a recent report, Furnaro and Heller lay out a five-step framework for how national oil companies (NOCs) can navigate an impending energy transition. Together, they contend that a business-as-usual approach is not a neutral option for these companies and their respective countries. Instead, NOCs must define national policy goals, assess transition risks and opportunities, establish a strategic direction beyond oil and gas, strengthen institutional governance, and ensure a just transition and responsible exit for workers and communities. Examples from Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, and Denmark illustrate how different NOCs can weigh diversification opportunities and adapt strategies to their unique national circumstances and organizational, technical, and economic capacities. References and recommendations: “National Oil Company Transformation: Strategic Choices for an Uncertain Energy Future” by Andrea Furnaro, Giovanni Tagliani, Patrick Heller, Ana Carolina González Espinosa, Tengi George-Ikoli, Fernanda Ballesteros, Nicola Woodroffe; https://resourcegovernance.org/publications/national-oil-company-transformation “Facing the Future” by Andrea Furnaro and David Manley; https://resourcegovernance.org/publications/facing-future-what-national-oil-companies-say-about-energy-transition “Jane” documentary film; https://films.nationalgeographic.com/jane-the-movie “The Secret Agent” film; https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27847051/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

This week, host Margaret Walls investigates the world of weather forecasting with Jeffrey Shrader, an associate professor at Columbia University whose recent research examines inequalities in forecast accuracy among countries across the globe. While the accuracy of weather forecasts has improved steadily over the past few decades, low-income countries experience notably less reliability in their local and regional weather predictions. Shrader explains how factors such as topography and proximity to the tropics impact the ability to get a read on the weather, while lack of investment in weather-observing infrastructure exacerbates such inequalities. In the course of breaking down his findings, Shrader gives an overview of the public-private partnership behind US weather forecasting (including how the context and outcomes may be poised to shift with recent policy proposals) as well as the changes that national and global leaders can implement to improve the complex weather forecasting system. References and recommendations: “Global Inequalities in Weather Forecasts” by Manuel Linsenmeier and Jeffrey Shrader; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-026-77630-w “Weather Forecasts Become More Important for Reducing Mortality as the Climate Warms” by Jeffrey G. Shrader, Stephan Thies, Laura Bakkensen, Manuel Linsenmeier, and Derek Lemoine; https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2523372123 “On the Impossibility of Informationally Efficient Markets” by Sanford J. Grossman and Joseph E. Stiglitz; https://www.jstor.org/stable/1805228 “Princess Mononoke” film; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Mononoke “All the World” by Liz Garton Scanlon; https://parents.simonandschuster.com/9781481431217 “Balanced Weather” blog from Alan Gerard; https://balancedweather.com/author/wxinms1/ “Balanced Weather” substack from Alan Gerard; https://substack.com/@balancedweather Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

In this episode of the podcast, host Kristin Hayes invites Zehra Khan and Lauren Sidner to discuss their work on the Electricity Price Hub, a collaboration that involves Heatmap News, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and the Clean Economy Project. The Hub visualizes national, state-level, and regional electricity prices—a feat that previously has been elusive due to the fragmentation of data across many sources. By putting prices in comparison for ZIP codes across the country, Khan, Sidner, and their colleagues are able to illuminate broad nationwide trends and the differences among states and regions when it comes to changing electricity prices and key drivers of that change. They discuss the role of data centers in electricity rate increases; what’s behind the notable price spike in Washington, DC; considerations for state regulators and policymakers; and more. References and recommendations: “How to Fix the Fastest-Rising Electricity Prices in the U.S.” by Zehra Khan, Lauren Sidner, and Steven Berit; https://heatmap.news/ideas/pepco-exelon-prices Electricity Price Hub data tool from Heatmap News, MIT, and CleanEcon; https://electricity.heatmap.news/ “The Affordability and Climate Agendas Run Through State Regulators. It’s Time to Rethink Their Roles.” by Arjun Krishnaswami and Megan Husted; https://fas.org/publication/rethinking-state-regulators-climate/ The Kyoichiro Kaga series of mystery novels by Keigo Higashino; https://us.macmillan.com/series/thekyoichirokagaseries “A Bad, Bad Place” by Frances Crawford; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803124/a-bad-bad-place-by-frances-crawford/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

This week, host Daniel Raimi brings Gabrielle Wong-Parodi on the podcast to discuss how people connect climate change to their personal experiences with extreme weather events—and whether these experiences impact their willingness to take action. As a social scientist at Stanford University with a psychology background, Wong-Parodi offers a glimpse into the complicated, and often unpredictable, path between experiencing a consequence of climate change and deciding to contribute to solutions. Research has shown that extreme weather events can lead to increased desire to take adaptation measures (like making homes more resilient) and mitigation actions (like purchasing electric vehicles or solar panels). However, translating these cognitive responses to behavior isn’t always straightforward; Wong-Parodi explains how psychological biases and political affiliation can affect the actions that result from observed attitudinal trends. References and recommendations: “Personal experiences matter for climate action” by Gabrielle Wong-Parodi; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-026-02640-x “Households’ Perceived Personal Risk and Responses in a Multihazard Environment” by Michael K. Lindell and Seong Nam Hwang; https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1539-6924.2008.01032.x “The effects of weather experiences on climate change attitudes and behaviors” by Matthew Ryan Sisco; https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1877343521001160 “Experience of extreme weather affects climate change mitigation and adaptation responses” by Christina Demski, Stuart Capstick, Nick Pidgeon, Robert Gennaro Sposato, and Alexa Spence; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32355377/ “All That Breathes” documentary; https://www.allthatbreathes.com/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

This week, host Daniel Raimi brings Ishan Sharma on the podcast to discuss the beginnings of the geologic hydrogen industry. Sharma, director and founder of a fund at Renaissance Philanthropy that seeks to grow hydrogen into a competitive energy provider, draws upon the trajectories of sectors such as oil and gas—and newer additions, like geothermal energy—to argue that with enough investment, the abundant hydrogen gas trapped beneath the Earth’s surface could be a major player in the energy game. As hydrogen is a natural output of common chemical reactions, such as the interaction of iron and water, there’s no shortage of the resource; the issue is how to find it. While interest in geologic hydrogen is ramping up, the industry faces feasibility issues related to incomplete public information, lack of understanding about the subsurface world, and regulatory voids—however, Sharma believes this low-carbon source has a bright future. References and recommendations: Chimaera Fund; https://www.renaissancephilanthropy.org/chimaera-fund “Designing a Life That Matters” episode of the “Hidden Brain” podcast; https://www.hiddenbrain.org/podcast/designing-a-life-that-matters/ “Odd Lots” podcast from Bloomberg; https://www.bloomberg.com/oddlots “Ministry for the Future” book; https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/kim-stanley-robinson/the-ministry-for-the-future/9780316300162/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

In this episode, host Kristin Hayes invites Sara Baldwin-Griffin to give her perspective on Utah’s growing renewable energy sector—a product of the state’s abundant resources, increasing energy demand, and collaborative policy landscape. Baldwin-Griffin, as chief executive officer of Utah Clean Energy, is supporting the industry’s boom as solar, wind, geothermal, and battery power have grown from less than 5 percent to approximately 20 percent of Utah’s energy generation within just two decades. Not only do sustainable sources of energy offer solutions for affordability and reliability issues, which have been exacerbated by the state’s emerging data center projects, but renewable energy can inject vitality back into struggling local economies. Baldwin-Griffin elaborates on the factors that have led to Utah’s clean-energy success so far, including bipartisan support and community engagement, and speculates on next steps to increase renewable energy adoption across the Western United States. References and recommendations: Utah Clean Energy; https://utahcleanenergy.org/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

This week, host Daniel Raimi welcomes Shoshannah Lenski, executive director of the Ann Arbor Sustainable Energy Utility (SEU), a municipal energy utility that is fully powered by renewable sources, optional for residents, and supplemental to the existing electricity grid. Over the past few months, the SEU has been installing solar energy systems in households to scale back dependence on carbon-intensive infrastructure, focusing on underserved communities that historically have lacked reliable, affordable electricity. Providing renewable energy as a public utility—with no up-front costs to residents—offers creative solutions for problems such as stress on the electric grid due to data center build-out, low access to renewable energy for property renters, and repealed federal assistance for solar installations. Lenski walks through the SEU’s ambitious next steps, including constructing neighborhood-scale geothermal systems that provide heating and cooling, and building “microgrids” of interconnected sites that share the energy generated by their solar systems. References and recommendations: Ann Arbor Sustainable Energy Utility; https://www.a2gov.org/sustainable-energy-utility/ “The Ice at the End of the World” by Jon Gertner; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/239762/the-ice-at-the-end-of-the-world-by-jon-gertner/ Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

In this week’s episode, host Margaret Walls brings Mark Brown and Jason Brooks on the podcast to discuss their work facilitating fire-resilience efforts among the residents of Marin County, California. As the executive officer of the Marin Wildfire Prevention Authority—the agency tasked with coordinating the county’s fire-prevention activities—Brown relies on data and strategies created by Fire Aside, a software company co-founded by Brooks. Together, the pair have contributed to an evolution in how the county approaches fire mitigation and response, promoting collaboration among homeowners, local fire services, and insurers. Brown and Brooks relate key takeaways from five years of their public-private partnership, including how to effectively advocate for behavior change, enable homeowners to improve their insurance plans, and unite communities to protect one another against the growing threat of wildfire. References and recommendations: Fire Safe Marin; https://firesafemarin.org/ Fire Aside; https://www.fireaside.com/ “The British Are Coming” by Rick Atkinson; https://rickatkinson.com/british-are-coming/ “The Death of Expertise” by Tom Nichols; https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-death-of-expertise-9780197763834 Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

This week, host Kristin Hayes invites Liz Moyer on the podcast to break down the history of US energy use in commemoration of the country’s 250th year of independence. Moyer is an associate professor at the University of Chicago, and along with research collaborators, she created an animated Sankey diagram—a chart that quantifies and depicts the flow of volume from one stage or category (in this case, different energy sources) to another (economic sectors in which the energy is used)—to visualize the evolution of US energy over time. In this episode, Moyer explains the mechanisms behind past US energy transitions, from the expansion of railroads in the 1860s to the oil crisis of the 1970s, and provides insights on the current energy transition toward electricity. References and recommendations: “US Energy History Visualization” by Robert Suits, Nathan Matteson, and Elisabeth Moyer; https://us-sankey.rcc.uchicago.edu/ “Energy Transitions in US History, 1800–2019” by Robert Suits, Nathan Matteson, and Elisabeth Moyer; https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dcfad0e4b0eaff5e0068bf/t/5fbeba6ffa04221c71019ccc/1606335091993/Suits_Matteson_Moyer_2020_Energy_Transitions.pdf “Charting the evolution of U.S. energy since 1800—from horsepower to renewables” by Rob Mitchum; https://news.uchicago.edu/story/charting-evolution-us-energy-1800-horsepower-renewables “Infrastructure: A Guide to the Industrial Landscape” by Brian Hayes; https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393349832 Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/

In this episode, host Daniel Raimi invites podcast guest Amy Townsend-Small, a professor at the University of Cincinnati, to illuminate the history, environmental impact, and cultural significance of gas-powered streetlights. These functional fixtures lend old-time ambiance to historic districts in cities like Boston and Cincinnati, but their aesthetic comes at a cost: gas lamps leak methane at a wasteful rate, and these charming relics can drain cities of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance. By integrating her field research on streetlights with cultural and historical context, Townsend-Small localizes the numbers behind gaslight emissions—and sheds light on the sentiments that might have allowed them to persist, even as fuel-efficient electric alternatives become more affordable and available. References and recommendations: “Gas streetlights, methane emissions, and the cultural resistance to climate change mitigation” by Amy Townsend-Small, Sacha Brewer, and David Stradling; https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13412-026-01113-z “Quantification of methane and carbon monoxide from natural gas streetlights in Boston: a ‘low-hanging fruit’ for emissions reduction” by Amy Townsend-Small, Sacha Brewer, Nathan Phillips, and Ania Camargo; https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/2515-7620/ae60cb/meta “Hacks” television show; https://play.hbomax.com/show/67e940b7-aab2-46ce-a62b-c7308cde9de7 Subscribe to stay up to date on podcast episodes, news, and research from Resources for the Future: https://www.rff.org/subscribe/