Sarah Levy and Captain Paul Watson: Direct Action for the Ocean, The Only Flag Worth Flying | S5E3

In this episode of REEF Roundup we sit down with Oxford legal scholar Sarah Levy and legendary frontline conservationist Captain Paul Watson to discuss their new book, The Only Flag Worth Flying. In it they challenge the assumption that law enforcement belongs solely to the nation-state, arguing that when governments abandon their duty to protect marine ecosystems, direct action by non-state actors becomes both justified and necessary.This conversation explores environmental law, the weaponization of the legal system against conservationists, and the extents to which some people are ready to go in order to save our oceans.Key Topics Discussed:The Illusion of Protection: The difference between hard and soft law in international environmental agreements, and why treaties like the High Seas Treaty remain meaningless without enforcement.Embracing the Pirate Identity: How historical pirates and privateers bypassed bureaucracy to achieve results, and why being a "pirate" is an appropriate response to a broken legal system.The Post-State World Order: Examining the breakdown of the traditional rules-based order and the rising necessity for NGOs and civil society to push forward, even without permission.Aggressive Nonviolence and Legal Precedent: Captain Watson's strategy of intervening to uphold international conservation law, such as using the UN World Charter for Nature to win legal acquittals after sinking illegal whaling vessels.Weaponizing the Law: How the legal system, including Interpol red notices, is used by exploitative industries to target effective conservationists and whistleblowers.The Upcoming Krill Campaign: Details on the Paul Watson Foundation's imminent expedition to confront the Norwegian and Chinese krill fishery in the Southern Ocean to provoke an international legal precedent.The Power of the Present: Wisdom from American Indian Movement leader Russell Means on focusing entirely on doing the right thing in the present rather than worrying about the odds of winning.About Our Guests:Sarah Levy: An Oxford legal scholar whose work bridges the gap between socio-legal methods, indigenous rights, and environmental law. She is currently finalizing her PhD focusing on seal hunting activities in Canada.Captain Paul Watson: A frontline conservationist and the founder of both the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and the Captain Paul Watson Foundation. He has spent over 50 years defending marine wildlife through direct action.Resources Mentioned:The Only Flag Worth Flying by Sarah Levy and Paul Watson, available via Routledge and major booksellers.The Captain Paul Watson Foundation at paulwatsonfoundation.org.UN World Charter for Nature.BBNJ Agreement / High Seas Treaty.

In this episode we look beyond the biology of conservation to examine the financial engine required to keep it running. We sit down with John Bohorquez, a specialist in ocean finance and the founder of the Blue Economy Solutions Lab, to bridge the often-separate worlds of marine science and finance.John walks us through the realities of the "Blue Economy," highlighting the staggering disparity between the ocean’s commercial market value and the $50 trillion in ecosystem services it provides annually. We discuss his latest research comparing reef management in the politically complex Red Sea versus the decentralized Caribbean, and why we must shift toward "transboundary" conservation for ecosystems that do not recognize human borders.Finally, we demystify the complex mechanisms of Blue Bonds and Debt-for-Nature swaps. John explains how nations are leveraging their sovereign debt to fund marine protection, moving from small-scale philanthropy to the trillion-dollar investments needed to meet global 30x30 goals. He also introduces new tools designed to help practitioners access these funds.Mentioned in this EpisodeJohn Bohorquez: https://johnbohorquez.com/Blue Economy Solutions Lab: https://blueeconomysolutions.org/Conservation Finance Alliance (CFA): https://www.conservationfinancealliance.orgThe Blue Nature Alliance: https://www.bluenaturealliance.orgGeneral Organization for Conservation of Coral Reefs and Sea Turtles in the Red Sea (SHAMS): https://shams.gov.sa/Bigelow Laboratory for Ocean Sciences: https://www.bigelow.orgHigh Level Panel for a Sustainable Ocean Economy (WRI): https://oceanpanel.orgCaribbean Biodiversity Fund: https://caribbeanbiodiversityfund.org/Protected Seas: https://protectedseas.net

In this special episode of REEF Roundup, we share the unforgettable conversation we had with the legendary Dr. Sylvia Earle. Recorded on location at the IUCN World Conservation Congress in Abu Dhabi, this interview captures an intimate moment with one of the world's most iconic oceanographers.Dr. Earle shares her perspective on the transformative power of scuba diving, describing it as a pivotal step that just recently began allowing terrestrial beings to explore the majority of our biosphere. We discuss the critical shift from viewing marine life as a commodity ("I want to eat you") to viewing them as individuals ("I want to know you"), and why divers, who witness the underwater world firsthand, have a unique privilege and responsibility to speak up for the ocean.Mentioned in this EpisodeMission Blue (Sylvia Earle’s Alliance): @mission_blueIUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature): @iucn_congressThe IUCN Red List of Threatened Species A Light in the Black (Our Upcoming Documentary!)

In this episode of REEF Roundup, we sit down with Linzi Hawkin, co-founder of Protect Blue, and explore the special combination of thoughtful strategy and human joy that is essential to being impactful in your efforts to care for the ocean.Linzi shares her journey from running surf schools in Jersey to designing impact strategies for global NGOs. We dive deep into the dangers of "shiny" storytelling, the importance of nervous system regulation for ocean advocates, and why "water breaks" should be the first thing you seek out at the next ocean conference you attend.Key TakeawaysStrategy & Stoke: Why ocean conservation needs both measurable impact data and the joy of connecting with the ocean to be sustainable.Beating Burnout: Practical advice on managing overwork and climate anxiety, including "sit spots" and setting boundaries (like Linzi’s "No-Call Fridays").Impact VS Storytelling: Why we need funding and support for "scrappier," more authentic projects that support and celebrate those in the trenches doing the work.The "Robin Hood" Model: How Protect Blue takes high-level agency tools and makes them accessible to grassroots frontline communities.Featured Quotes"If you don't have time to meditate for five minutes, you need to meditate for five hours." — Linzi Hawkin"We're almost creating this really false narrative... like we're all just swimming with manta rays every day... I want to champion and celebrate some of that behind the scenes work." — Linzi Hawkin"Do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast... a part-time crusader... Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure." — Edward Abbey (read by Linzi)Mentioned in this EpisodeDamon Gameau (Filmmaker, 2040): @damongameauSeaTrees (Ocean regeneration project): @sea.trees

In this episode, we sit down with Virgil Zetterlind, Director of Protected Seas, to discuss the critical difference between declaring a Marine Protected Area (MPA) and it actually leading to the intended positive outcomes we hope to achieve. It's a more complex topic than we often cover, but incredibly important. So grab a cup of coffee, perhaps a notepad, and a comfortable seat before you dive in.While global targets like 30x30 and the High Seas Treaty dominate the headlines, the reality on the ocean is that much of it is often a Wild West of overlapping regulations and limited visibility. Virgil walks us through how Protected Seas is solving this knowlege and data gap by mapping the global regulatory landscape with their Navigator tool and deploying autonomous radar systems (M2) to monitor compliance in real-time.In this episode, you’ll hear about:Visualizing the Invisible – How the Navigator tool standardizes complex, layered legal texts into a "Level of Fishing Protection" score, allowing users to see exactly what activities are allowed in any patch of ocean.Closing the Enforcement Gap – The transition from "paper parks", areas that are protected by law, but not in reality, to protected waters using M2 (Marine Monitor), a non-cooperative radar technology that tracks near-shore vessel movement without relying on AIS signals.The Economics of Protection – Data from Mexico and beyond proving that scuba divers are willing to pay a premium to visit fully protected areas, making a clear economic case for strict no-take zones.Data Over Intuition – A case study from California where radar data disproved the assumption that poaching happens at night, revealing that most illegal fishing occurred in broad daylight which shifted enforcement strategies.High Seas & 30x30 – The logistical challenges of implementing the new High Seas Treaty and the difficulty of tracking "Other Effective Conservation Measures" (OECMs) without standardized metrics.Protected SeasProtected Seas is a team of data scientists, mariners, and conservationists dedicated to bridging the gap between ocean policy and reality. Their open-access tools, including the Navigator map and M2 radar systems, empower governments, NGOs, and ocean users to understand regulations and improve compliance.Website: https://protectedseas.netNavigator Map: https://map.navigatemap.orgM2 Marine Monitor: https://m2marinemonitor.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/protected-seasMentioned Organizations & ToolsMapping & Navigation AppsSavvy Navvy (Boating App)Website: https://www.savvy-navvy.comDeckee (Boating Safety App)Website: https://deckee.comGoogle EarthWebsite: https://earth.google.comGoogle MapsWebsite: https://maps.google.comConservation Technology & EnforcementGlobal Fishing WatchWebsite: https://globalfishingwatch.orgSkylight (Maritime Intelligence)Website: https://www.skylight.globalEarthRanger (Protected Area Management - Note: Referred to as "Earth Rangers" in transcript)Website: https://www.earthranger.comConserve.ioWebsite: https://conserve.ioWhale AlertWebsite: https://www.whalealert.orgFuruno (Marine Radar Hardware)Website: https://www.furuno.comConservation NGOs & GovernmentWildAidWebsite: https://wildaid.orgInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/wildaidGlobal ConservationWebsite: https://globalconservation.orgInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/globalconservationNOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration)Website: https://www.noaa.govInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/noaaDave Wiley (Research Coordinator, Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary)Profile: https://stellwagen.noaa.gov/science/dave-wiley.htmlREEF Roundup & REEF ScubaREEF Roundup – Marine conservation podcast (this show)Website: https://www.reefroundup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/reefroundupREEF Scuba – Nonprofit behind REEF RoundupWebsite: https://www.reefscuba.org

In this episode, we sit down with Tré Packard, founder and Executive Director of PangeaSeed Foundation, to explore how public art can turn abstract ocean science into something people can see, feel, and act on. From shark fin markets in Asia to large-scale mural festivals and fine art print releases, Tré walks through how PangeaSeed built a global model that funds conservation work, supports artists, and brings the ocean into city streets. In this episode, you’ll hear about:Art as a gateway to empathy – why emotional connection is as important as scientific literacy for driving change, especially for people who will never put on a mask or scuba tank. The origin of Sea Walls – how the uncovering of the largest shark finning operation in the world and a mural in a Sri Lanka sparked the idea of using large-scale public art as a democratic, free platform for ocean stories. Printed Oceans and the “business of conservation” – how limited-edition fine art prints create a circular economy that funds programs, supports artists, and brings conservation narratives into homes, schools, and workplaces. Cross-sector collaborations – examples of working with dive agencies, city governments, brands, and international institutions to align communications, funding, and science around local ocean threats. Longevity and resilience in ocean advocacy – lessons from 15+ years in the field, including burnout, hope, and how to keep going when the problems are heavy and long-term. PangeaSeed Foundation is a nonprofit working at the intersection of art, science, and education to advance ocean conservation. Through programs like Sea Walls: Artists for Oceans, Printed Oceans, and their Impact and Commissioned Programs, PangeaSeed connects scientists and communities with a global network of artists to turn complex marine issues into accessible visual stories. Their work addresses priority ocean challenges such as overfishing, plastic pollution, and climate impacts worldwide. PangeaSeed FoundationWebsite: https://www.pangeaseed.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pangeaseed Sea Walls: Artists for Oceans (PangeaSeed public art program)Website: https://www.seawalls.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seawallsPrinted Oceans (fine art print program)Program page: https://pangeaseed.org/printed-oceans/ Tré Packard – Photography PortfolioInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/abovebelowphoto/ Other Mentioned OrganizationsProtect BlueProtect BlueWebsite: https://protect.blue Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/protect.blue Application / program pagesUndercurrent (program page with application): https://protect.blue/undercurrent Blue Campus (community & program hub): https://protect.blue/campus PADI (Professional Association of Diving Instructors)Website: https://www.padi.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/paditv United Nations & UN Ocean ConferenceUN Ocean Conference (information page): https://www.un.org/en/conferences/ocean2025 United Nations – main organizationWebsite: https://www.un.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unitednations Influencer DatabaseIUCN – International Union for Conservation of NatureWebsite: https://www.iucn.org Instagram (IUCN Congress): https://www.instagram.com/iucn_congressREEF Roundup & REEF ScubaREEF Roundup – Marine conservation podcast (this show)Website: ⁠https://reef-roundup.com⁠ ⁠Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/reefroundup⁠ REEF Scuba – Nonprofit behind REEF RoundupWebsite: ⁠https://www.reef-scuba.org⁠ ⁠

In this episode of REEF Roundup we sit down with world renowned Dr. Jamie Craggs to learn about the fascinating topic of coral reproduction and how controlled coral spawning is increasingly becoming a go-to restoration tool. Jamie walks through the progression from his groundbreaking work at the Horniman Museum & Gardens — Project Coral to wider collaborations with Coral Spawning International, SECORE International, Tropical Marine Centre (BioCSL), and his work as Senior Marine Science Officer at MARS Sustainable Solutions — Building Coral. We also discuss a field project documented with Canon and Nature Seychelles, connecting science and public storytelling.Explore & follow the organizations mentioned:Horniman Museum & Gardens — Project Coral — Website: https://www.horniman.ac.uk/project/project-coral/ • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hornimanmuseumgardens/Coral Spawning International — Website: https://www.coralspawninginternational.com/SECORE International — Website: https://www.secore.org • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secore.international/Tropical Marine Centre (BioCSL) — Website: https://tropicalmarinecentre.com • BioCSL: https://tropicalmarinecentre.com/uk/sector-bio-csl-coral-spawning-labs • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tropicalmarinecentre/MARS Sustainable Solutions — Building Coral — Website: https://www.buildingcoral.com Canon (World Unseen: Coral Matchmaking) — Feature: https://www.canon-europe.com/view/world-unseen-coral-matchmaking-episode-1/ Nature Seychelles — Website: https://natureseychelles.org • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/naturesey/Learn more about the show and follow us at REEF Roundup — https://reef-roundup.com • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reefroundup/

In this episode, we’re honored to feature Rose Huizenga, founder of Coral Catch and co-founder of Gili Shark Conservation. Originally from the Netherlands, Rose has spent the past decade on Gili Air, Indonesia, transforming a dream to restore her island’s reefs into a powerful movement for ocean conservation and women’s empowerment.Through Coral Catch, Rose has built a sisterhood of local women—known as the Coral Catch Superwomen—who are trained as certified divers, reef restoration experts, and community leaders. These women are not only reviving reefs across Indonesia but also sparking ripple effects of change in their communities, proving that empowering women is a catalyst for stronger ecosystems and societies.For Rose, this mission is deeply personal. Every time she takes her daughters into the ocean, she’s reminded why she began: so the next generation can inherit a living, thriving ocean. Her vision is bold yet tangible—to empower 100 women to pursue conservation careers and 100 more to learn how to swim, ensuring a brighter future for both people and reefs.If you’re looking for a powerful story of how one person’s dream can ignite lasting change, this episode is a must-listen. Follow the journeys of the Coral Catch Superwomen on Instagram @coralcatch, and support their work at coralcatch.org/donate.

In this episode we are featuring Rebecca Daniel @rebecca_saltysea, the visionary Director of @themarinediaries. Rebecca’s journey from a young ocean enthusiast to a leading marine conservationist storyteller is nothing short of extraordinary. We'll explore how The Marine Diaries is making waves in ocean conservation, from educating the public on marine ecosystems to launching powerful campaigns and creating an ocean community through events and experiences. Discover their visually stunning short films on YouTube, such as "The Big Blue", which takes you deep into the heart of the ocean, and get a taste of adventure with their annual "Great African Seaforest Adventure", showcasing the wonders of Cape Town’s underwater world. Whether you’re passionate about marine science, eager to learn how you can help protect our ocean, or simply love a good story, this episode is packed with insights that will leave you inspired and ready to take action! Make sure to visit The Marine Diaries at www.themarinediaries.com and follow them on Instagram @themarinediaries to stay updated on their latest initiatives.

On this episode of REEF Roundup, we are thrilled to host David and Brett Kettle, the innovative minds behind Flying Fish Technologies. With a combined legacy of over five decades in marine conservation, the Kettles are revolutionizing how we analyse, understand and protect coral reefs. Brett Kettle has been a formidable force in coral reef protection for several decades. His career highlights include spearheading the largest reef remediation project on the Great Barrier Reef and providing expert testimony in landmark environmental cases. Driven by the need to address Crown of Thorns Starfish outbreaks, Brett envisioned a tool that could document vast stretches of reef with unprecedented speed and accuracy. This vision materialized into the Vertigo3 glider, a high-speed underwater survey device capable of capturing over 50,000 high-resolution images per hour, each enriched with geospatial and environmental data. David Kettle brings a wealth of experience in business analysis, project management, and technological innovation. As CEO of Flying Fish Technologies, David has been instrumental in developing AI-driven tools that analyze biodiversity in real-time, enabling the creation of photorealistic, geospatially accurate digital twins of reef ecosystems. His leadership has ensured that Flying Fish Technologies remains at the forefront of marine survey technology, making their gliders accessible for global deployment and adaptable to various environmental conditions. Together, Brett and David Kettle are not just advancing marine science; they are making it possible to monitor and preserve our underwater worlds more effectively and on a scale that was never possible before. Tune in to hear about their journey, the technology they’ve developed, and their vision for the future of coral reef conservation. Make sure to check out Flying Fishs' videos - they are incredible! https://vimeo.com/showcase/10597521 You can find Brett Kettle here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettkettle You can also find David Kettle here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kettledavid Follow us @ REEF Roundup Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Marine Conservation Podcast (@reefroundup)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ REEF Roundup Website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠(reef-roundup.com)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ REEF Scuba Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (reef-scuba.org)