On Drifting from the Gospel (Ep. 331)

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever are joined by David Lawrence, pastor of Erbil Baptist Church, and Jeremy Barker of the Mustard Seed Foundation, to discuss gospel work in Kurdistan — the semi-autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq. 

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Caleb Morell and Mark Dever sit down with Australian author Tony Payne (co-author of The Trellis and the Vine) to discuss his new book, Let the Word Dwell Richly. Payne makes the case that alongside the public preaching of the Word, the New Testament everywhere assumes a "one another word" — believers speaking Scripture and its implications to one another for mutual spiritual benefit.

In this special episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever welcome John Piper to reflect on his book The Pleasures of God, newly reissued by Crossway. Together they explore why God's self-exaltation is not vanity but love, how grace overflows from a God who is full and free, the connection between God's glory and His happiness, and why a gloomy view of God distorts everything downstream. 

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever discuss the unusual sermon Mark preached on July 5th, 2026 — the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence; tackling the question, "Are we celebrating the 250th anniversary of a sin?" Along the way they reflect on when to depart from expositional preaching for a topical occasion, rightly ordered love of country versus idolatry.

In this special episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark and Connie Dever to talk through Mark's sudden medical event. Mark and Connie recount the story, from the emergency room to Mark's slow recovery, and reflect on what the experience revealed: how a healthy church cares for a pastor and his family in crisis, and the importance of building those habits of mutual care long before you need them.

In the season finale of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman is joined by Ligon Duncan and Michael Lawrence to discuss the state of the pastoral pipeline — examining why fewer men are entering ministry, the role of demographics and seminary debt, and what healthy churches and seminaries can do about it.

In part three of their series on raising up leaders, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever work through nine practical principles Mark uses to identify and develop future pastors — from spotting qualified men and extending trust early, to delegating well, cultivating feedback loops, embracing a healthy view of authority, and modeling clarity and humility. Along the way they discuss why spending time with a few people often matters more than chasing a platform, and why a senior pastor who always wins the vote is quietly undermining his own eldership.

Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever continue their conversation on raising up leaders, exploring the connection between discipleship, evangelism, and church planting, how to measure ministry fruitfulness beyond numbers, and what it means to steward your church for the next pastor.

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan and Mark dive into the essential, yet often challenging, practice of raising up leaders and passing out authority. They discuss what it takes to build a ministry around giving authority away rather than consolidating it.

Hebrews 2:1  warns believers to pay close attention to the gospel message to avoid drifting away from their faith. Mark and Jonathan talk to Jared Wilson about his book on this topic and how believers should be thinking carefully about the centrality of the gospel in their lives.