BONUS: Why Did They Stay? Inside the Sedona Sweat Lodge Tragedy: A Discussion with Author Annette McGivney

In this bonus episode, Esther shares the complete interview with journalist Annette McGivney, author of Plastic Shaman: The True Story of a Deadly Self-Help Retreat and America’s Misguided Quest for Wellness, expanding on the 2009 Sedona sweat lodge tragedy and self-help guru James Arthur Ray. McGivney details Ray’s rise from 1990s business motivational speaking to fame via The Secret and Oprah, his blending of secular “prosperity gospel” with spirituality, and prior warning incidents of heat illness before 2009. They discuss why attendees stayed in the dangerously hot lodge (cost, credibility, coercion, impaired thinking), staff dynamics, and profiles of victims Kirby Brown, Liz Newman, and James Shore. The conversation also covers commercialization and appropriation of Indigenous ceremonies, the term “plastic shaman,” Ray’s post-prison comeback and lack of regulation, his 2025 death, McGivney’s personal wellness journey, red flags, and the Seek Safely resourceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In 2009, self-help superstar James Arthur Ray invited dozens of followers to a six-day retreat near Sedona, Arizona, promising a life-changing journey of spiritual transformation. Instead, his Spiritual Warrior program ended in tragedy when three participants—Kirby Brown, James Shore, and Liz Neuman—died following an extreme sweat lodge ceremony.Once Upon a Crime first covered the case in 2019 as part of our Deadly Therapy series. Now, Esther revisits the story with new insight from journalist and author Annette McGivney, whose new book, Plastic Shaman: The True Story of a Deadly Self-Help Retreat and America’s Misguided Quest for Wellness, takes a deeper look at the tragedy and the culture that allowed it.Throughout the episode, Annette discusses her years of research into the case, the warning signs that preceded the deaths, the psychological pressure that kept participants pushing past their physical limits, and Ray’s appropriation of Indigenous spiritual traditions. The case also raises a question that remains relevant today: When does the pursuit of self-improvement cross the line into exploitation—and how do we recognize a dangerous guru before it’s too late?Patreon Bonus: You’ll hear excerpts from Esther’s conversation with Annette throughout this episode. Once Upon a Crime Patreon members can hear the complete, uncut interview with Annette McGivney, where she shares more about her investigation, the people at the center of the tragedy, and what the Sedona case can teach us about today’s self-help and wellness industry.Become a member starting at just $5 per month at patreon.com/onceuponacrime.Featured Book: Plastic Shaman: The True Story of a Deadly Self-Help Retreat and America’s Misguided Quest for Wellness by Annette McGivneyhttps://www.torreyhouse.org/plastic-shaman https://azdailysun.com/flaglive/annette-mcgivney-dives-into-impacts-of-self-help-schemes-with-new-book-plastic-shaman/article_42b52fe1-5d6d-4c40-9693-dd2dd468307e.htmlSupport the show by visiting our sponsors! Vinted - Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing!Talkiatry - Go to talkiatry.com/ONCE to complete a short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. Jones Road - Head to jonesroadbeauty.com and use code ONCE at checkout to receive a free full-sized mascara with your first purchase. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this bonus episode of Once Upon a Crime, we ask a disturbing question: did the Scott Peterson case inspire other men to murder their wives?We examine the cases of Lori Hacking, Jennifer Corbin, and Teresa Lane, three women whose murders shared striking similarities with the Peterson case. In some instances, the connection went beyond coincidence. One killer reportedly followed Peterson’s trial closely, while another allegedly referenced Peterson directly before murdering his wife.We also turn the question around: could Scott Peterson himself have been influenced by earlier disappearances and murders that occurred while he was a college student in San Luis Obispo?From staged accidents and disappearances to the dangerous myth of “no body, no crime,” this bonus episode explores how high-profile murder cases can become cautionary tales... or, in the wrong hands, criminal blueprints.Sources: Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives, Marilee Strong, Jossey-Bass Publishers, 2008. “Death and the Dentist,” Rob Stafford for NBC News, October 18, 2006https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15253153“Thomas Lane, convicted of wife’s murder, sentenced to death,” Jared Boyd, AL.com, June 7, 2016.  https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2016/06/mobile_man_accused_of_killing_3.htmlThomas Robert Lane v. State of Alabama, Feb. 5, 2010, accessed on Findlaw.com. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/al-court-of-criminal-appeals/1507261.htmlSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In Part Two of Scott Peterson Revisited, Esther is joined by her sister Yolanda to take a closer look at the claims now being made on behalf of convicted murderer Scott Peterson.In 2024, the Los Angeles Innocence Project announced that it was investigating Peterson’s claims of actual innocence. The following year, his attorneys filed a habeas corpus petition arguing that new evidence and scientific analysis undermined key elements of the prosecution’s case. A judge rejected those claims in April 2026, but the LA Innocence Project has said it plans to appeal.Now Esther and Yolanda reopen the case for themselves.Together, they examine the major arguments being presented as evidence of Peterson’s innocence: the burglary across the street from the Peterson home, witnesses who claimed they saw Laci walking her dog after Scott left that morning, new theories about where Laci and Conner entered San Francisco Bay, evidence suggesting Laci may have known about Scott’s fishing boat, and questions surrounding when Conner died. They also revisit allegations that investigators developed tunnel vision and ignored evidence that didn’t fit their theory of the crime. What actually caused detectives to focus their attention on Scott? Were other leads adequately investigated? And does the so-called “new evidence” meaningfully change the circumstantial case that led a jury to convict him?More than two decades after Laci and Conner Peterson were murdered, Esther and Yolanda separate what’s new from what has been argued before, challenge each other’s assumptions, and ask the question at the heart of Scott Peterson’s latest bid for freedom:Is there truly new evidence of innocence — or simply a new way of presenting an old defense?Content warningThis episode discusses the murder of a pregnant woman and the death of an unborn child.Links to our original episodes:This episode revisits research originally presented in Episodes 71 and 72 of Once Upon a Crime in 2017, along with subsequent court rulings and the claims presented by the Los Angeles Innocence Project in Scott Peterson: The New Evidence.https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep71-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-1/https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep72-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-2/Other resources: People Magazine article (with photos of van, “Laci note” with handwriting comparison, etc.) https://people.com/pieces-forensic-evidence-could-lead-scott-peterson-freedom-exclusive-12014816?hid=bc2984855ed727914fef22dff40e20764d844358&did=24648672-20260713&utm_source=ppl&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ppl-true-crime_newsletter&utm_content=071326&lctg=bc2984855ed727914fef22dff40e20764d844358&lr_input=f39d77450fcf063cdc7d94fda7ecdf5efd39306fc49121111e7af41f018cc829&campaign=18955543 For Laci: A Mother’s Story of Love, Loss, and Justice, Sharon Rocha, Crown Publishers, 2006. YouTube: Crime & Justice, “Scott Peterson Case: Lead Detective Dismantles “New Evidence” Claimshttps://youtu.be/a5qvh_KVvW0?si=hSlZWEh6DcvzcgY_YouTube: East Idaho News, “Homicide Detective Jon Buehler and legal analyst Beth Karas on the truth about Scott Peterson”https://youtu.be/U8OlJsSdWxM?si=t7mRvJluYIhjv8LBhttps://www.stanislaus-da.org/pdf/news/2026/press-release-05-12-2026-SPeterson.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawTJwBZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAwzNTA2ODU1MzE3MjgAAR573on0mjwU15IxHrPF2s_dROtgKY4mxWsO_FbqPJzGzGd_qwChWikSZPIFiw_aem_UvmC6ZEk7nqxD9jDoOFt7ALos Angeles Innocence Project Court Filings: Notice of Motion for DNA Testing, Jan 17, 2024  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ev6pivmu5f34w0f4fsj4c/1405-DNA-Motion.pdf?rlkey=3a2im5v5osa1b6jxjb739b3hj&e=1&dl=0Notice of Motion for Post-Conviction Discovery, Jan 17, 2024https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wa5itop6v4mxgx5bdojqc/1054.9-Discovery-Motion_Redacted.pdf?rlkey=api1iepe8sw96utwe2aiy3j1x&e=1&dl=0See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this bonus episode of Scott Peterson Revisited, we look beyond the evidence to examine the man at the center of the case. Was Scott Peterson capable of murdering his pregnant wife, Laci, and their unborn son, Conner?We explore Scott’s family history, childhood, relationships, repeated infidelities, and carefully cultivated image as the family’s “Golden Boy” and “Mr. Perfect.” We also consider the patterns of deception and compartmentalization that emerged throughout his life and ask whether they offer clues to how he could commit such a devastating crime—and continue to deny responsibility more than two decades later.Unmasking Scott Peterson examines the man behind the carefully constructed image and asks: What happens when maintaining the mask becomes more important than confronting reality?Content warningThis episode discusses the murder of a pregnant woman and the death of an unborn child.Sources and further listeningInside the Mind of Scott Peterson, Keigh Ablow, M.D., St. Martin’s Press, 2005.Till Death Do Us Part: Love, Marriage, and the Mind of the Killer Spouse, Dr. Robi Ludwig and Matt Birkbeck, Atria Books, 2006.When the Husband is the Suspect, F. Lee Bailey with Jean Rabe, A Forge Book, 2008. Witness for the Prosecution of Scott Peterson, Amber Frey, Regan Books, 2005. For Laci: A Mother’s Story of Love, Loss, and Justice, Sharon Rocha, Crown Publishers, 2006. Blood Brother: 33 Reasons My Brother Scott Peterson is Guilty, Anne Bird, Regan Books, 2005. “Fun and unpredictable, that was the real Laci,” Diana Walsh for The San Francisco Chronicle, May 30, 2004. “William “Kent” Gains - December 8, 1972 - August 21, 2021, Epilogg.com. Links to our original episodes: This episode revisits research originally presented in Episodes 71 and 72 of Once Upon a Crime in 2017. https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep71-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-1/https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep72-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-2/Sponsors: See a list of our sponsors and discount codes on our website:https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/sponsors/Links: Patreon - www.patreon.com/onceuponacrime Our Website - www.truecrimepodcast.com OUAC Merchandise Shop - https://onceuponacrime.dashery.comYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@OnceUponACrimePodcastSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Twenty-three years after the murders of Laci Peterson and her unborn son, Conner, the case against Scott Peterson is once again under scrutiny.In January 2024, the Los Angeles Innocence Project announced that it was representing Peterson and investigating his claims of actual innocence. Since then, his attorneys have filed new challenges to his conviction, arguing that previously overlooked evidence and new scientific analysis undermine the prosecution’s case.In July 2026, A&E aired the two-part documentary Scott Peterson: The New Evidence, produced by the Los Angeles Innocence Project, bringing many of these claims back into the national conversation.In Part One of this two-part series, we’ll revisit the case from the beginning and examine the evidence that originally led investigators to focus on Scott Peterson.We review the timeline surrounding Laci’s disappearance on Christmas Eve 2002, Scott’s secret relationship with Amber Frey, the investigation that followed, and the discovery of Laci and Conner’s remains months later near the area where Scott said he had been fishing.We’ll also look at the legal history of the case after Scott’s conviction, including the California Supreme Court’s decision to overturn his death sentence, his resentencing to life without parole, and the more recent efforts by the Los Angeles Innocence Project to reopen the case.Content warningThis episode discusses the murder of a pregnant woman and the death of an unborn child.Sources and further listeningThis episode revisits research originally presented in Episodes 71 and 72 of Once Upon a Crime in 2017, along with subsequent court rulings and the claims presented by the Los Angeles Innocence Project in Scott Peterson: The New Evidence.Links to our original episodes: https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep71-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-1/https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/s2-ep72-the-12-crimes-of-christmas-laci-peterson-part-2/Coming nextIn Part 2, Esther and her sister, Yolanda, evaluate the new innocence claims one by one and discuss whether any of them materially change the evidence against Scott Peterson.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

More than twenty years after Laci Peterson's murder captivated the nation, one of America's most infamous true crime cases is back in the spotlight.In this upcoming special two-part series, Once Upon a Crime host Esther Ludlow revisits the case with fan-favorite co-host Yolanda, taking a fresh look at the investigation, the evidence, and the questions that continue to divide the public. Originally covered by the podcast in 2016, this updated series examines what's changed, and why so many people are debating Scott Peterson's guilt once again.The disappearance of eight-months-pregnant Laci Peterson on Christmas Eve 2002 sparked a media frenzy unlike anything seen before. As investigators uncovered Scott Peterson's affair with Amber Frey and his shocking lies about his marriage, public opinion quickly turned. Months later, the bodies of Laci and her unborn son, Conner, were discovered along the shores of the San Francisco Bay, leading to Scott's arrest, conviction, and death sentence.But the story didn't end there.With new legal challenges from Scott Peterson's defense team, renewed attention from the Los Angeles Innocence Project, and recent documentaries reigniting debate, the case has become the subject of fresh scrutiny. Could key evidence have been misunderstood? Were important leads overlooked? Or does the original investigation still point to the same conclusion?Subscribe to Once Upon A Crime so you don't miss this upcoming series. Next episode drops Monday August 10, 2026See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Once Upon a Crime, we revisits the murder of Sheila von Wiese Mack through the new book When Lambs Become Wolves by retired Sergeant Rasul T. Freelain, who knew Sheila and her daughter Heather years before the Bali killing. Freelain recounts how a 2010 theft report led to repeated police contact, revealing escalating child-to-parent violence: Heather’s manipulation, financial fraud, and assaults that included breaking Sheila’s arm and later a brutal attack. Despite diversion programs, mentoring, probation, and numerous calls for service, Sheila often refused to press charges, focused on saving her family, and ultimately told Freelain, “She’s going to kill me.” When Lambs Become Wolves. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0809339943?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallbackResorting to Murder: The Body in the Suitcase: https://art19.com/shows/once-upon-a-crime/episodes/eef34649-e83a-47cb-a960-5403629b2295See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Part 2 of the Sylvia Likens case examines the heartbreaking final hours of Sylvia Likens, one of the most horrific child abuse and murder cases in American history. On October 26, 1965, after months of unimaginable torture inside a home in Indianapolis, Indiana, 16-year-old Sylvia was carried upstairs for a bath before she was discovered unresponsive. As Gertrude Baniszewski scrambled to cover up the abuse with a fabricated confession letter, investigators immediately recognized the devastating evidence of prolonged torture. Including severe burns, starvation, countless injuries, a fatal subdural hematoma, and the chilling message carved into Sylvia's abdomen.The investigation took a dramatic turn when Sylvia's younger sister, Jenny, courageously told police, "Get me out of here, and I'll tell you everything." Her testimony unraveled Gertrude Baniszewski's lies and led to the arrests of Gertrude, several of her children, and neighborhood teenagers who participated in or witnessed the abuse.Sources:https://www.indianapolismonthly.com/longform/likens-looking-back-indianas-infamous-crime-50-years-laterhttps://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2013/10/24/sylvia-likens/3178393/House of Evil: The Indiana Torture Slaying - John DeanTorture Mom: A Chilling True Story of Confinement, Mutilation, and Murder - Ryan Green, 2018.The House from Hell: The True Story of Gertrude Baniszewski, Genoveva Ortiz, Sea Vision Publishing, 2024. https://www.history101.com/sylvia-likens-the-family-she-left-behind/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sylvia_Likens#Gertrude_Baniszewskihttps://murderpedia.org/female.B/b/baniszewski.htmhttps://www.history101.com/sylvia-likens-the-family-she-left-behind/https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/35446-lawyers-book-retraces-indys-infamous-sylvia-likens-murder-caseSponsors: See a list of our sponsors and discount codes on our website:https://www.truecrimepodcast.com/sponsors/Links: Patreon - www.patreon.com/onceuponacrime Our Website - www.truecrimepodcast.com OUAC Merchandise Shop - https://onceuponacrime.dashery.comYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@OnceUponACrimePodcastSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Police arrived at the New York Street house and quickly realized the story didn’t add up. Within hours, Gertrude Baniszewski, her children, and neighborhood teens were arrested in the torture of 16-year-old Sylvia Likens. In court, everyone pointed fingers—mother against children, children against mother. Leaving one question: who was lying?Subscribe and listen to Once Upon a Crime for part two.Episode drops Monday July 13, 2026. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.