Episode 600: Flipping the Script

Today is a major milestone—Episode 600. My journey behind the mic began in 2012, and since then, this conversation has evolved from simple marketing tactics into the deeper pillars of leadership, communication, and storytelling. To celebrate, I’m flipping the script. I’ve invited my longtime friend and fellow 2012 podcasting pioneer, Mike Gerholdt, to take over the host’s chair. We’re going behind the scenes on everything I’ve learned over 600 episodes—from the origin story and terrestrial radio to the move to full video—to talk about what it really takes to build a podcast brand that lasts. What You’ll Learn in This Episode - Why curiosity is the most important trait for a long-running podcast host - How to pivot your content from marketing tactics to leadership and storytelling - The evolution of media from terrestrial radio to short-form and full-length video - Why every modern brand needs an evangelist to foster two-way conversations - Strategic lessons learned from 13 years and 600 episodes in the podcasting trenches Episode Chapters (00:00) Flipping the Script for Episode 600 (01:29) Introducing Guest Host Mike Gerholdt (02:54) Why Every Brand Needs an Evangelist (05:55) The 2013 Podcasting Pioneers (08:27) The Evolution from The Work Talk Show to On Brand (09:38) Pioneering the Remote Work Conversation (12:45) Standing Out in a Saturated Market (15:33) From Radio Production to Personal Voice (17:21) Why Audio Conveys More Than Text (20:15) Curiosity: The Trait That Drives 600 Episodes (23:46) The Reality of Guest Pitches and PR Intermediaries (27:10) Avoiding the "Game of Dodgeball" with Multiple Guests (30:22) Why Real Conversations Don't Need Prep Calls (33:40) The Leap to Full Video and Short-Form Content (38:15) The "Human Element" in Modern Communication (42:30) Closing Thoughts on the Future of On Brand About Mike Gerholdt Mike Gerholt is the Senior Director of Salesforce Admin Evangelism at Salesforce. He leads a group of world-class Admin Evangelists who are helping Salesforce Admins realize their dreams by being technology leaders and advancing their careers. He’s also the host of the Salesforce Admins podcast and someone I’ve been in the podcasting trenches with since day one. What Brand Has Made Mike Smile Recently? Mike highlighted HelloFresh as the brand that made him smile recently. He noted that the meal delivery service stood out during the pandemic and continues to impress him with small touches of appreciation, clear care in delivery, and a non-intrusive approach that never feels like a "used car salesman" pitch. He described the experience as receiving a "little smile in every box." Resources & Links Check out the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Connect with Mike Gerholdt on LinkedIn and (for fun) Instagram Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today is a major milestone—Episode 600. My journey behind the mic began in 2012, and since then, this conversation has evolved from simple marketing tactics into the deeper pillars of leadership, communication, and storytelling. To celebrate, I’m flipping the script. I’ve invited my longtime friend and fellow 2012 podcasting pioneer, Mike Gerholdt, to take over the host’s chair. We’re going behind the scenes on everything I’ve learned over 600 episodes—from the origin story and terrestrial radio to the move to full video—to talk about what it really takes to build a podcast brand that lasts. What You’ll Learn in This Episode - Why curiosity is the most important trait for a long-running podcast host - How to pivot your content from marketing tactics to leadership and storytelling - The evolution of media from terrestrial radio to short-form and full-length video - Why every modern brand needs an evangelist to foster two-way conversations - Strategic lessons learned from 13 years and 600 episodes in the podcasting trenches Episode Chapters (00:00) Flipping the Script for Episode 600 (01:29) Introducing Guest Host Mike Gerholdt (02:54) Why Every Brand Needs an Evangelist (05:55) The 2013 Podcasting Pioneers (08:27) The Evolution from The Work Talk Show to On Brand (09:38) Pioneering the Remote Work Conversation (12:45) Standing Out in a Saturated Market (15:33) From Radio Production to Personal Voice (17:21) Why Audio Conveys More Than Text (20:15) Curiosity: The Trait That Drives 600 Episodes (23:46) The Reality of Guest Pitches and PR Intermediaries (27:10) Avoiding the "Game of Dodgeball" with Multiple Guests (30:22) Why Real Conversations Don't Need Prep Calls (33:40) The Leap to Full Video and Short-Form Content (38:15) The "Human Element" in Modern Communication (42:30) Closing Thoughts on the Future of On Brand About Mike Gerholdt Mike Gerholt is the Senior Director of Salesforce Admin Evangelism at Salesforce. He leads a group of world-class Admin Evangelists who are helping Salesforce Admins realize their dreams by being technology leaders and advancing their careers. He’s also the host of the Salesforce Admins podcast and someone I’ve been in the podcasting trenches with since day one. What Brand Has Made Mike Smile Recently? Mike highlighted HelloFresh as the brand that made him smile recently. He noted that the meal delivery service stood out during the pandemic and continues to impress him with small touches of appreciation, clear care in delivery, and a non-intrusive approach that never feels like a "used car salesman" pitch. He described the experience as receiving a "little smile in every box." Resources & Links Check out the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Connect with Mike Gerholdt on LinkedIn and (for fun) Instagram Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“I’m Nick Westergaard, and this is On Brand — helping you tell your story.” Storytelling is everything—especially for leaders and marketers navigating today's digital world. On this show, we go behind the scenes with the minds at Microsoft, Spotify, and the Mayo Clinic to see how they lead with purpose and build lasting trust. Featuring insights from global experts like Seth Godin, Nancy Duarte, and Alan Alda, we unpack the human element of brand building. We also ask every guest: “What’s a brand that’s made you smile recently?” If you’re ready to build a brand that stands out, join us each week on On Brand. Full episodes and resources: https://nickwestergaard.com/podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ashley Herd, founder of Manager Method and former Head of HR at McKinsey, explains why most managers aren't actually failing—they're just guessing. She breaks down her simple yet powerful three-step framework—pause, consider, and act—to help leaders move past the "speed of the inbox" and start leading with real intention. From handling employee mistakes with empathy to navigating the "octopus and wizard" traps of burnout, Ashley provides practical "real talk" for anyone responsible for the careers and lives of others. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The critical difference between day-to-day management and long-term leadership How to implement the three-step Manager Method of pause, consider, and act Why the “speed of the inbox” is causing manager burnout and how to slow down Practical ways to handle employee mistakes using the “Gigi” perspective How to use human-centric storytelling to build psychological safety on your team Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:51) Management vs Leadership (03:18) The Gap in Manager Training (06:01) The Manager Method Explained (06:39) Step One: The Power of the Pause (09:20) Step Two: Consider Your Response (11:09) Step Three: Acting with Intention (13:36) Avoiding Modern Workplace Burnout (19:16) Storytelling as a Leadership Tool (24:09) Brand That Made Her Smile (26:47) Where to Learn More About Ashley Herd Ashley Herd is the founder of Manager Method and a former Head of HR for McKinsey North America. A LinkedIn Top Voice and top 10 business podcast host, she has trained more than 250,000 managers across various industries. Her background as an employment lawyer for brands like KFC and Yum! Brands informs her practical, "real talk" approach to leadership. She is the author of The Manager Method, where she provides actionable frameworks for leading with confidence and supporting team growth without burnout. What Brand Has Made Ashley Smile Recently? Ashley recently smiled at Chiquita. She loves their banana stickers that claim they are "likely the best snack on earth." As a former marketing lawyer, she appreciated the humorous collaboration between the creative and legal teams to include the word "likely" rather than a definitive claim, showing a brand that doesn't take itself too seriously. Resources & Links Check out the Manager Method website and book. Connect with Ashley Herd on LinkedIn. Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

While every non-alcoholic brand is shouting Dry January, Recess is telling you to quit. Literally. Joining us is Ben Witte, CEO and co-founder of the #1 mocktail brand, to unpack a provocative new campaign that swaps all-or-nothing resolutions for something far more realistic: balance. From a bold manifesto to a full-page New York Times ad timed for “Quitter’s Day,” Ben explains why going against the seasonal grain isn’t risky—it’s exactly why Recess is winning. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why moderation—not elimination—is the real shift happening in drinking culture How going against category conventions can create sharper brand differentiation What most brands get wrong about Dry January and behavior change How narrative-driven branding builds permission to expand into new categories Why “do the unexpected” is more than a creative idea—it’s a leadership strategy Episode Chapters (00:00) Why Recess Is Telling People to Quit (01:00) The Myth of Sober Curious and the Rise of Moderation (04:30) Why Dry January Is Losing Relevance (06:45) Anti-Perfectionism as Brand Strategy (09:45) The Hidden Downsides of Rules and Streaks (13:00) Naming, Narrative, and Building Red Bull for Relaxation (18:00) Knowing When to Push Against Conventional Wisdom (25:00) Brands That Make Us Smile About Ben Witte Ben Witte is the CEO and co-founder of Recess, a leading functional beverage company built around the idea of calm, balance, and taking a break from modern stress. Coming from a Silicon Valley background rather than traditional CPG, Ben has consistently challenged category norms—shifting the conversation from sobriety to moderation and from ingredients to outcomes. Under his leadership, Recess has grown into a category-defining brand spanning mocktails, mood drinks, and relaxation-focused products sold nationwide. What Brand Has Made Ben Smile Recently? Ben points to a Thanksgiving campaign from Tito’s Handmade Vodka that flipped the familiar “Turkey Trot” on its head with the idea of a “Turkey Rot”—leaning into cultural truth with humor and self-awareness. The campaign stood out by inverting expectations, tapping into real behavior, and reminding us that the best brand moments often come from saying the quiet part out loud. Resources & Links Check out the Recess website and their Amazon store. Recess on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/recess Connect with Ben Witte on LinkedIn and X. Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Storytelling is easy to talk about—and hard to do well. On this episode of On Brand, I’m joined by John Elbing, Chief Storybuilder Officer at Standpoint, to unpack how his Storybuilding approach helps startups and brands clarify their value, sharpen their pitch, and actually connect—with a framework so effective it’s now a #1 international bestselling book. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why most brands jump to storytelling tactics before they understand the story they should be telling How recognition, perception, and projection shape whether people connect with your brand Why customer standpoint matters more than founder backstory How structure can unlock creativity instead of killing it A simple way leaders can improve their story starting this week Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:15) Why storytelling became a buzzword (02:50) Storytelling vs storybuilding (04:00) Coaching startups to find focus and alignment (07:30) Why the customer—not the founder—is the hero (08:05) Recognition, perception, and projection explained (16:00) Aspirations, problems, and emotional contrast (21:30) One practical fix leaders can make today (24:00) A brand that made John smile About John Elbing John Elbing is the Chief Storybuilder Officer at Standpoint and a leading authority on Business Storytelling for startups and growth-focused organizations. With a background spanning computer science, finance, digital marketing, and entrepreneurship, John has coached more than 150 startups and companies, helping them clarify their value, sharpen their positioning, and win with purpose. He is the creator of Storybuilding, a practical, canvas-based methodology that turns strategy into compelling customer-centered narratives, and the author of Storybuilding, a #1 international bestselling book. John also teaches entrepreneurship and digital transformation and works with incubators, accelerators, and social-impact initiatives worldwide—proving that when story is built right, it drives both growth and good. What Brand Has Made John Smile Recently? John shared the story of Felco, a Swiss company known worldwide for its professional-grade garden shears. What began as a durable tool brand for field workers uncovered a passionate fan base of everyday gardeners—some so devoted they’d tattoo the logo. By recognizing different customer aspirations and building distinct story worlds around them, Felco expanded into new audiences, including children, proving that even the most practical products can build emotional connection when the story is built from the user’s standpoint. Resources & Links Connect with John on LinkedIn. Check out the Standpoint website. Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the story your brand tells could drive growth like nothing else? Park Howell—The World’s Most Industrious Storyteller, Emmy-winning ad veteran, and author of Brand Bewitchery—shows how narrative-first leaders succeed in the age of AI. As host of the Business of Story podcast and creator of the StoryCycle Genie™, he’s helping brands craft powerful stories in minutes, not months. What You'll Learn Why storytelling itself hasn’t changed—but storytellers have How AI can scale authentic brand storytelling without losing your voice What it means to treat stories as strategic business assets How leaders can use narrative frameworks to drive clarity, trust, and growth Why speed now matters more than perfection in brand strategy (00:00) Intro (01:28) Story as the oldest technology (03:53) The StoryCycle system and brand growth (05:44) From months to minutes with AI-powered narrative strategy (10:35) Accuracy and authenticity in AI storytelling (13:25) How storytellers are changing—even if stories aren’t (17:11) Building a personal and brand story library (24:48) Brands that made Park smile (and grimace) Park Howell is known as The World’s Most Industrious Storyteller. An Emmy Award–winning, 40+ year advertising veteran, Park has helped purpose-driven brands grow by as much as 600 percent by putting story at the center of business strategy. He is the author of Brand Bewitchery, co-author of The Narrative Gym for Business, and host of the Business of Story podcast. Park is also the creator of the StoryCycle Genie, an AI-powered tool that helps leaders craft a powerful brand narrative in minutes, not months. He works internationally with executives who want to lead—and grow—through story. Park shared a great experience with Navy Federal Credit Union, praising their clear sense of purpose and people-first culture, summed up in their tagline: “Our members are the mission.” In contrast, a less-than-inspiring flight with United Airlines—complete with a dangling exit sign and spotty Wi-Fi—served as a reminder that brand storytelling always shows up in the experience, whether you like it or not. Resources & Links Connect with Park on LinkedIn. Check out The Business of Story and StoryCycle Genie. Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the future of marketing is a lot more human than we think? Today’s guest, Mark Schaefer, has been shaping that future for decades — and he was actually on this show ten years ago. So this is part reunion, part masterclass. Mark’s a futurist, bestselling author, Rutgers faculty member, and Drucker-trained strategist whose ideas guide brands from Adidas to the U.S. Air Force. His ten books and his top-ranked show The Marketing Companion have become industry staples. He’s also a longtime friend who somehow manages to push your thinking and make you laugh at the same time. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Why the future of marketing belongs to the most human companies, not the most automated ones How AI can scale trust, creativity, and teaching without killing the brand When removing friction actually damages customer relationships Why curiosity is becoming the most important career skill in the AI era How marketers must act as brand defenders when technology pushes too far Episode Chapters (00:00) Reunion and why this moment matters (02:00) Why this is the most amazing — and unsettling — time in marketing (04:20) Scaling humanity with AI and the MarkBot experiment (07:30) The most human company wins (and what that really means) (10:40) When AI goes too far and brands lose trust (12:30) Harley-Davidson, friction, and knowing your customer deeply (17:00) Curiosity as a career strategy in an AI world (27:00) The brand that made Mark smile About Mark Schaefer Mark Schaefer is a globally recognized futurist, keynote speaker, educator, and bestselling author. With more than 30 years of experience in marketing, PR, and global sales, he has advised organizations ranging from startups to Adidas and the U.S. Air Force. Mark studied under Peter Drucker, teaches in Rutgers University’s graduate program, and holds seven patents. He is the author of ten influential books used at universities worldwide and the host of the top-ranked podcast, The Marketing Companion. Known for blending sharp insight with humanity and humor, Mark’s work helps leaders navigate what’s next without losing what matters. What Brand Has Made Mark Smile Recently? Mark couldn’t stop smiling about Nutter Butter — a once-forgotten cookie brand that decided to go full weird. By embracing surreal, chaotic, almost inexplicable short-form videos, the brand ditched boring category conventions and leaned into creativity with nothing to lose. The result? Tripled sales and a case study in what happens when brands stop playing it safe and start being interesting. Resources & Links Connect with Mark on LinkedIn. Check out his website, BusinessesGrow. Listen & Support the Show Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s that time of year again: Brand Federation’s Naughty & Nice list is out, and Matt Williams is here to break it down. Matt is President of Brand Federation and former CEO of The Martin Agency, where he led campaigns for GEICO, OREO, UPS, and Walmart. He’s also a visiting professor at William & Mary, sharing decades of brand strategy know-how. On this episode, Matt reveals which brands earned “Nice,” which landed on “Naughty,” and what leaders can learn from both. What You'll Learn How brands end up on the Naughty list by ignoring customer context and cultural signals. How Delta, Starbucks, and others earned their spot on the Nice list through clarity, consistency, and smart leadership. Why edgy brand moves succeed or fail depending on strategy and self-awareness. How crisis response can turn a disaster into a win with creativity and cultural savvy. What Apple’s place on the watch list says about innovation, risk, and the future of tech brands. Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (00:52) Matt returns to the show (01:21) Why American Eagle’s “Great Jeans” campaign backfired (03:52) Cracker Barrel’s tone-deaf rebrand misstep (06:48) Target’s DEI reversal and the cost of misunderstanding your customer (09:20) Southwest walks away from its differentiators (11:52) Meta’s AI avatars go sideways (12:44) Delta earns a place on the Nice list (13:55) Starbucks returns to the core (16:55) How Astronomer turned crisis into comedy (21:15) Duolingo kills the owl (and nails it) (24:40) Navigating edgy vs. effective brand moves (24:51) Apple lands on the watch list (27:40) The brand that made Matt smile (29:17) Where to learn more about Brand Federation (30:08) Closing Matt Williams is the President of Brand Federation, a brand and marketing consultancy that helps organizations like Harvard, MIT, and Mercy Corps transform their brand strategy for growth and impact. Before that, he spent 26 years at The Martin Agency, rising through strategic planning roles to become CEO. During his tenure, he led strategy and campaigns for GEICO, OREO, UPS, Discover Financial, Benjamin Moore, and Walmart, while guiding the agency to national creative and effectiveness recognition. Matt also teaches as a Visiting Clinical Professor at William & Mary, where he brings decades of brand strategy expertise to future marketers. Matt lights up when talking about Duolingo, specifically the irreverent, persistent, slightly unhinged owl. The way Duolingo leans hard into its mascot’s attitude — using humor, edge, and cultural relevance — reflects a brand that truly understands both itself and its audience. The owl’s personality, storytelling, and strategic mischief never fail to make Matt smile. Connect with Matt on LinkedIn. Check out the Brand Federation, where you can see the full Naughty & Nice List! Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if you could test your business strategy in days instead of months? That’s what Kate O’Keeffe, CEO and Co‑Founder of Heatseeker, makes possible. From building the first AI‑powered platform for market experimentation to helping companies validate strategy, positioning, and buyer demand at lightning speed, Kate’s career is all about turning bold ideas into measurable results. Former BCG Partner and Silicon Valley innovator, she’s here to show how AI is rewriting the rules of testing ideas — fast, smart, and with real data. What You'll Learn How AI and Heatseeker enable companies to validate strategy, positioning, and buyer demand in days instead of months Why traditional surveys and panels are unreliable and how real-time experimentation can replace them The importance of starting experimentation early in the funnel to uncover hidden customer desires How to balance speed and rigor when testing ideas and avoid misleading results Ways to foster a culture of experimentation where data informs thousands of daily marketing micro-decisions Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (00:38) Why AI is changing brand strategy (01:41) Heatseeker explained and the problem with traditional surveys (05:17) Common mistakes in testing and the role of AI (10:23) Balancing speed with rigor in experiments (14:12) Creating a culture of experimentation without chaos (19:42) The future of AI-driven market experimentation (23:53) A brand that made Kate smile recently and how to connect Kate O’Keeffe is the CEO and Co-Founder of Heatseeker, the first AI-powered platform for market experimentation that helps companies validate strategy, positioning, and buyer demand in days instead of months. She spent a decade in Silicon Valley founding CHILL, Cisco’s global co-innovation lab, and launching high-impact ventures for Fortune 100 companies at startup speed. A former Partner at BCG, Kate has advised executives and boards on innovation, growth, and digital transformation, delivering hundreds of millions in business value. She also serves on the board of Birchal and as a non-executive director for Naked Ambition and CircleOf, Inc. What Brand Has Made Kate Smile? L’Oreal impressed Kate with its recent work in the refill movement, turning sustainability into a movement people want to join. She loved how the brand tapped into the human need to feel like part of something bigger and clever messaging that invites consumers to “be a recycler” rather than simply recycle. Links & Resources Connect with Kate on LinkedIn. Check out the Heatseeker website. Watch or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon/Audible, TuneIn, and iHeart. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to help others find the show. Share this episode — email a friend or colleague this episode. Sign up for my free Story Strategies newsletter for branding and storytelling tips. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices