Case Files 25: Olivia Gant Part 2

In this episode, we close out our coverage of Serial’s The Preventionist with Dr. Randy Alexander, one of the most experienced child abuse pediatricians in the country and the former supervisor of both Dr. Deborah Jensen and Dr. Sally Smith. Randy explains how the media’s portrayal of CAPs as all-powerful fundamentally misunderstands how these cases work and ignores the layers of oversight built into the system.  We also revisit the Amanda Saranofksy case, which The Preventionist casts as uncertain despite multiple conflicting stories and medical findings that simply don’t match the explanations given. These selective narratives don’t bring accountability. They undermine child safety by elevating fringe theories over decades of established research. This is our final episode on The Preventionist, but we’ll continue examining its consequences as we move into Season Seven. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we’re re-releasing Andrea’s conversation with Kathleen Strader from Prevent Child Abuse America. While Nobody Should Believe Me is, at its core, raising awareness about Munchausen by Proxy abuse, we’ve been pulled into the larger question of “how do we make sure children are safe in their homes?”. We’ll continue exploring that next week during Andrea’s interview with Dr. Randy Alexander and throughout season 7 (coming soon!). *** This week Andrea is joined by Kathleen Strader, the National Director for Healthy Families America, the signature home visiting program of Prevent Child Abuse America. Following the Take Care of Maya film and media coverage of so-called "medical kidnapping" and misleading coverage of child abuse, we move the conversation to solutions: what can we do to prevent child abuse? We delve into Kathleen's background dealing with child abuse cases and her work supporting families through home visiting programs. Their conversation touches on the complexities of child abuse, systemic issues, and the importance of supportive measures and interventions that meet families where they are. As we wrap up our coverage of the landmark Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children's case, we issue a hopeful message of how we can alleviate one of society's most challenging problems. * * * Check out ⁠Prevent Child Abuse America⁠.     Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Dr. Sally Smith is back on the mic to share her reaction to the recent appellate ruling that overturned the massive judgment against Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital in the Maya Kowalski case. She talks about what the decision means for mandatory reporters, why she sees it as vindication of her work, and what it’s been like to be cast as a media villain simply for following the evidence. Andrea and Dr. Smith also discuss The Preventionist and reporter Dyan Neary’s portrayal of Dr. Debra Jenssen, and why these narratives about “overzealous” child abuse pediatricians can so easily miss the reality of how these cases are actually evaluated. Dr. Smith offers context on the medical processes involved and what’s at stake when public conversations lose sight of the vulnerable children at the center of these stories. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meanwhile in Mankato: Lies, Silence & Murder in Minnesota In 1965, a teenager killed a gas-station clerk near Mankato and was sentenced to forty years. He served five. Decades later, Dakota Spotlight retraces his path — from prison to parole, from murder to manipulation — and discovers new revelations that still shock those who lived through it. *** Listen to Dakota Spotlight: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dakota-spotlight-true-crime-cold-case-investigations/id1451783176 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In light of the overturned ruling of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins and Serial’s The Preventionist, we’re reairing an episode from our Kowalski season in which Andrea dives into the complexities around reporting child abuse suspicions. *** With the jury's stunning $242 million verdict in favor of the Kowalski family, host Andrea Dunlop looks at why this case has struck such a nerve on both sides of the political spectrum. She examines why some mothers accused of medical child abuse are viewed as monsters and others as martyrs.   Andrea looks at the charges against social worker Cathy Bedy the woman who became the face of the child welfare bureaucracy during the Maya Kowalski case and examines her testimony.   We also seek out answers about the troubled state of child welfare in America by talking to Dr. Jessica Pryce, author of the forthcoming book Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services—Notes of a Former Caseworker.  Dr. Pryce shares heart-wrenching stories of mothers whose lives have been turned upside down by investigations and sets out a compelling and urgent case for an overhaul of CPS. With her inside view of the system, she also gives insight on how doctors and other mandated reporters can do the best for the families they want to help even within the current, deeply flawed system.   This episode grapples with the complexity around reporting child abuse suspicions and the potentially chilling ripple effects of the explosive verdict in Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens. It examines the lack of support for struggling parents in America, while leaving the listener with urgent questions about justice and equity.  *** Learn more about Dr. Pryce’s work on her website: https://jessicaprycephd.com/   Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second part of Andrea’s rebuttal to The Preventionist, Serial Productions’ podcast on child abuse pediatrician Dr. Debra Jenssen, she speaks with Dr. Jim Hamilton, a leading expert on Munchausen by proxy. They break down how prevalence statistics are misused, what The Preventionist gets wrong, and why leaving out key details—like the Steltz’ teenage son coming forward and emancipating himself—is so damaging. Ultimately, the episode asks what it means when the media gives a platform to alleged abusers while erasing survivors. *** Tickets for Nobody Should Believe Me LIVE: https://www.andreadunlop.net/nobody-should-believe-me-live Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea sits down with Ethen Shapiro, trial counsel for Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital, to unpack the landmark appellate decision overturning the $200 million verdict in the Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins case. Ethen explains how the ruling reinforces the immunity given to mandatory reporters acting in good faith when reporting suspected abuse. Together, they explore how the decision challenges the “medical kidnapping” narrative and clarifies that the hospital’s actions were guided by law and necessity, not malice. The discussion also highlights what this ruling could mean for similar cases nationwide, where lawsuits against hospitals and social workers are on the rise.  *** Tickets for NSBM Live - Seattle 3.18.26 https://tickets.thetripledoor.net/eventperformances.asp?evt=2181 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea continues delving into the Olivia Gant case with Detective Melissa Kalish, who uncovered the vast fraud and abuse behind Kelly Turner’s lies. Kelly continued to exploit compassion: fabricating diagnoses, staging her daughter’s suffering, and committing large-scale Medicaid fraud. Within days of Olivia’s death, she entered new relationships, inventing pregnancies, fabricating ex-wives, and posing as a nurse. Andrea closes the episode by reminding listeners that Olivia’s story is a warning about the systems and people who looked away when she most needed protection. Get in touch with Serial and the NTY: [email protected] Justice for Collin: ⁠https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit⁠ Order Andrea’s book⁠ The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy⁠.  Click⁠ here⁠ to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on⁠ YouTube⁠ where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram:⁠ @andreadunlop⁠ Buy Andrea's books⁠ here⁠.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit⁠ MunchausenSupport.com⁠ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded⁠ here⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In response to Serial Productions’s series The Preventionist, we’re re-airing our episode “What’s Happening in Lehigh?”, where Andrea and Dr. Marc Feldman dive into the claims of “overdiagnosis” of Munchausen by Proxy in Lehigh, PA. This episode includes an intro covering some key details missing from Serial's reporting. *** This week Andrea is joined by Dr. Marc Feldman as she dives into the complexities and controversies surrounding medical child abuse and the developing story in Lehigh, PA about "overdiagnosis". They delve into the media’s role in shaping perceptions and the potential for a moral panic about doctors "falsely accusing" parents of child abuse. Andrea and Dr. Feldman address the challenges in protecting children, critiques of the healthcare and legal systems, and the broader social and political movement emerging from these cases. *** Tickets for NSBM Live - Seattle 3.18.26 https://tickets.thetripledoor.net/eventperformances.asp?evt=2181 Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The disturbing parallels between Collin McDaniel and Olivia Gant's cases led Andrea to speak with Melissa Kalish, the lead detective in the investigation of Kelly Turner, for season 6. Now we’re diving deeper into Olivia’s story in a two part series where Detective Kalish walks listeners through her investigation into this case of medical child abuse. *** Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.  Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!   Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.  Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices