Go To on the Trap of Being "Good"

We carry around this dangerous myth that brave people feel brave—that somewhere out there, women are standing up in meetings and saying the hard thing without their heart rate changing, that courage is a feeling you either have or don't have. Kelly blows up that whole idea by sharing what she learned from her conversation with Olympian Allyson Felix: when Allyson hit send on the New York Times op-ed that would take on Nike and change their maternity policy, she was shaking. There was never a moment she felt ready, never a moment she wasn't scared. It's about understanding that courage isn't a feeling or a personality trait—it's what you do in the moment between knowing what you need to say and saying it. This episode has been made possible by a grant from Ingeborg Initiatives, a social impact platform dedicated to improving maternal health and making it easier to raise a family. To learn more, please visit: ingeborginitiatives.com". To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Allyson Felix has 11 Olympic medals, which makes her the most decorated American track and field athlete in history. But here's the thing—most people know her name because of what happened when she got pregnant. After nearly a decade with her sponsor Nike, they offered her a new contract at 70% less than her previous salary. And when she asked for one thing—protected time to recover from childbirth without performance penalties—they said they wouldn't set that precedent for all female athletes. So, Allyson sat in her daughter's NICU room, watched her tiny baby fighting to come home, and decided to risk everything by going public. In this second episode of our Women of Consequence series, Kelly talks with Allyson about integrity, knowing your worth, and understanding that sometimes you speak up not for yourself but so the next woman doesn't have to fight the same battle. This episode has been made possible by a grant from Ingeborg Initiatives, a social impact platform dedicated to improving maternal health and making it easier to raise a family. To learn more, please visit: ⁠https://www.ingeborginitiatives.com⁠ Link to Allyson's New York Times article. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/opinion/allyson-felix-pregnancy-nike.html Check out our episode with Linda Villarosa which Kelly mentions in this podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-deep-with-linda-villarosa-on-being-seen/id1532951390?i=1000633982048 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Anne Lamott tells Kelly about the "other mother" from her childhood—her best friend's mom who thought she was fabulous when her own parents had concerns. It's about the gratitude you carry for the rest of your life when someone champions the parts of you that feel unseen and how those other mothers—the ones who celebrated instead of shaped—end up changing who we become. This episode has been made possible by a grant from Ingeborg Initiatives, a social impact platform dedicated to improving maternal health and making it easier to raise a family. To learn more, please visit: https://www.ingeborginitiatives.com Link to live Zoom event with Kelly and Anne (March 11, 2026 7pm ET/4pm PT): https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/R5kpMFa1RfiCJtlV7WsGZA?cmid=cb7fa38f-b413-4923-890e-d8c91450e2fb#/registration Anne's event which Kelly mentioned at the top of the show is Unscripted: Good Writing – An Evening with Anne Lamott & Neal Allen, at the Curran Theater in San Francisco (March 17, 2026 7pm) https://us.atgtickets.com/events/anne-lamott-neal-allen/curran-theater/ If you enjoy listening to Kelly talk with other writers, check out our episode with author George Saunders: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-dive-with-george-saunders-on-creativity/id1532951390?i=1000746827373 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kelly reflects on a moment from Tuesday's conversation with Laura Modi, founder of the infant formula company Bobbie, who had 48 hours to decide whether to take on thousands of desperate new parents during the 2022 formula shortage or stand by her current customers. Laura went against every growth model and turned the new customers away to protect those who already trusted her—not because of data provided in a spreadsheet or advice from consultants but because she trusted what she knew in her bones.  This episode was made possible by a grant from Ingeborg Initiatives, a social impact platform dedicated to improving maternal health and making it easier to raise a family. To learn more, please visit ingeborginitiatives.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Laura Modi had mastitis five days into motherhood— blistered and bleeding, fever raging—and when she finally turned to formula, she discovered the first ingredient was corn syrup. So, she did what any sleep-deprived new mom would do: she went down a 2 AM research rabbit hole and emerged determined to change an entire industry. In this first episode of our Women of Consequence series, Kelly talks with the co-founder and CEO of infant formula brand Bobbie about what happened during the 2022 formula shortage when she had 48 hours to decide between chasing growth or serving existing customer—and why she raised $70 million to buy a manufacturing facility even though less than 5% of manufacturers in this country are run by women. This is a story about being underestimated, trusting lived experience over spreadsheets, and understanding that when you're not just the CEO but also the customer, you're dangerous in the best possible way. This episode has been made possible by a grant from Ingeborg Initiatives, a social impact platform dedicated to improving maternal health and making it easier to raise a family. To learn more, please visit: ingeborginitiatives.com.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Newly appointed Judge Kristine Burk's investiture ceremony became unexpectedly tender when her 19-year-old son Tyler took the podium. Moving beyond the usual formal speeches, Tyler crafted an acrostic poem for "JUDGE" that revealed the everyday magic of his mom - from her unshakeable belief in second chances, to her instinct for helping strangers in need, to the joyful warmth she radiates to everyone around her. (Previously aired) To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may be familiar with this woman: she wakes up before anyone else, eats standing up, clears the dishes first—and if you told her she was good, she'd believe you, because all of that not resting, not asking, not taking up room, is what goodness looks like—doesn't it? Kelly digs into research showing that the behavior we reward in women—being accommodating, putting others first, never stopping—is actually a clinical risk factor for depression. This episode takes a close look at why many of us are so busy being good that we forget to be whole and the quiet cost of following rules we never actually agreed to. Check out Elise Loehnen's book On Our Best Behavior: The Price Women Pay to Be Good https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/673282/on-our-best-behavior-by-elise-loehnen/ Elise's workbook, co-written with Courtney Smith is Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness: A Process for Reclaiming Your Full Self https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/771811/choosing-wholeness-over-goodness-by-elise-loehnen-and-courtney-smith/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kelly sits down with Enneagram coach Courtney Smith, co-author (with Elise Loehnen) of the workbook Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness, to explore the cultural scripts women inherit about how we're supposed to be—and what happens when we start questioning them. They talk about why taking responsibility feels both terrifying and liberating, the difference between being stuck and choosing agency, and how fear keeps us playing roles that don't serve us. It's about the courage it takes to face what you've been avoiding, the surprising freedom that comes from talking back to yourself, and why wholeness might be worth risking everything you thought kept you safe. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Karen Frost held hands with a stranger named Frank at a U2 concert in Chicago—a man she sensed didn't have much time left. They didn't exchange contact information, but she knew what they shared was a soul connection forged through music. Years later, when she faced a cancer diagnosis and began guided imagery to prepare for radiation, something unexpected happened. It's a story about the fleeting connections that never really leave, the mysterious ways people return to us when we need them most, and how someone you barely knew can become exactly what saves you. If you have a story to share, thoughts or feedback, please reach out any time: [email protected] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the most powerful response to tragedy isn't professional intervention, but something much simpler and closer to home? Kelly weaves together a George Eliot quote about unhistoric acts, a newsletter from psychiatrist Dr. Samantha Boardman, and decades of research on community resilience to explore a surprising truth: after crisis, your friends and family aren't just holding you until you can get to a therapist—they are the therapy. It's about how natural support systems activate faster and reach more people than formal interventions, why being noticed matters more than we realize, and the quiet power of ordinary people showing up in extraordinary ways. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices