Embrace the Ugly Phase Before Beauty Emerges: Arlene Shechet

Have you ever looked at your work-in-progress and thought it was absolutely hideous? According to acclaimed sculptor Arlene Shechet, that's exactly where the magic happens.In this eye-opening exploration of artistic process, we dive deep into Shechet,'s philosophy of creation, where listening to your work becomes just as important as making it. The American sculptor, whose gravity-defying arrangements have earned places in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Whitney, reveals how embracing the "ugly" phases of creation leads to unexpected beauty."I have to have a real appetite for ugly," Shechet, confesses about her creative process. "There are so many points where this thing is just hideous and yet I have to believe in it." This sentiment resonates profoundly with our own artistic journeys—recognizing that every meaningful piece goes through an awkward adolescence before reaching maturity.What truly sets Shechet, apart is her approach to artistic control. After carefully crafting her ceramic sculptures, she surrenders them to a 2,000-degree kiln where "all bets are off." This balance between meticulous creation and acceptance of unpredictability forms the heart of her practice. She meticulously documents every experiment in notebooks, creating a scientific approach to artistic discovery that allows her work to continually evolve.We're particularly struck by Shechet,'s description of her studio as "both a farm and a factory"—a place that cultivates growth while producing tangible objects. Her commitment to pushing boundaries by creating open systems rather than settling into comfortable patterns mirrors our own philosophy of artistic development. When she declares, "I want to make something more than an idea," she articulates the ultimate challenge facing every serious artist: creating work that resists easy description and demands deeper engagement.Join us in this fascinating conversation about embracing discomfort, fighting against creative stagnation, and finding joy in the uncertain journey of making art that matters. Whether you're a seasoned creator or just beginning your artistic path, Shechet,'s wisdom offers valuable perspective on sustaining growth through perpetual discovery.Please visit:https://art21.org/watch/art-in-the-twenty-first-century/s7/arlene-shechet-in-secrets-segment/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh_lDHY0ZO4https://www.frieze.com/video/arlene-shechet-and-sheena-wagstaff-frieze-masters-podcastSend us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

What separates artists who give up from those who thrive despite rejection? In this fourth installment exploring Jerry Saltz's "How to Be an Artist," Ty and Nathan tackle the emotional armor required to navigate the art world's toughest challenges.When a Pulitzer Prize-winning critic featured Nathan's early work as an example of what not to do, he was devastated. "I was mourning the loss of an art career that didn't even exist," he confesses. This vulnerable moment becomes a masterclass in transforming criticism into creative fuel—a skill every artist must develop.The conversation weaves through the phases of artistic development: wanting it, doing it, and living it. They explore how Instagram has weaponized envy, why self-imposed deadlines create surprising breakthroughs, and the myth of overnight success that derails so many promising careers. "Art gives up its secrets very slowly," they remind us, encouraging patience and persistence.Perhaps most powerful is their discussion of "radical vulnerability"—following your work into uncomfortable psychological territory that reveals your truest voice. As Ty shares stories of gallery disasters and damaged artwork, a portrait emerges of the resilience required to survive the inevitable setbacks of creative life.The episode concludes with Jerry's most memorable advice: after the demons of doubt have spoken, simply tell yourself "I'm a fucking genius" and get back to work. It's strategic delusion as artistic superpower—and it just might be the difference between giving up and breaking through.Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

Part 3. Diving deep into Jerry Saltz's "How to Be an Artist," we explore the transformative journey of learning to think like an artist. This episode unpacks the beautiful paradox that while art remains unchanged physically, it's never the same when we experience it – as Saltz writes, "an unchanging thing that is never the same." We discuss how becoming a "seeing machine" develops your artistic eye, examining artwork up close, questioning materials and processes, and truly noticing rather than merely looking.One of the most powerful concepts we explore is embracing artistic inconsistency. When Saltz writes, "Don't resist something if you're afraid it's taking you far afield from your usual direction. That's the wild animal in you feeding," he reminds us that creative evolution requires following our instincts even when they lead us into unfamiliar territory. This is how artists avoid becoming creatively caged – by allowing ourselves to experiment freely.The conversation takes a particularly meaningful turn when discussing courage as "a desperate gamble that will place you in the arms of creative angels." We examine how artists throughout history, from Alice Neel to Ellsworth Kelly, displayed remarkable bravery by pursuing their unique visions despite working against prevailing movements of their time. Their courage to follow their intuitive logic ultimately led to extraordinary contributions to art history.Perhaps most reassuringly, we break down Saltz's practical insight that an artist's career can be sustained by surprisingly few supporters – just one dedicated dealer, a handful of collectors, and a few critics or curators who understand the work. The challenge lies in putting yourself out there consistently, showing up at exhibitions, and actively participating in the art community.What will you discover about your own creative process by training yourself to see differently? How might embracing your artistic inconsistencies lead to unexpected breakthroughs? Join us as we continue our exploration of what it truly means to be an artist in today's world.Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

What transforms raw materials into meaningful art? How do artists develop their unique voice while standing on the shoulders of those who came before them? In this thought-provoking second part exploration of Jerry Saltz's "How to Be an Artist," we unpack the practical realities of the creative journey and the mindsets that sustain artistic growth.The conversation begins with the critical practice of capturing ideas—through sketchbooks, journals, voice memos—creating an ever-expanding archive of inspiration that artists can mine for future work. We share personal systems for documenting fleeting thoughts and how this practice often reveals what's truly happening in our minds. These captured moments become the seeds from which our most authentic work grows.We tackle the intimidating challenge of finding one's artistic voice, challenging the myth that great artists spring forth with fully-formed originality. All masters begin as students—imitating, copying, and gradually infusing their personal perspective into established forms. The studio becomes the sacred space for this transformation—a sanctuary where imitation evolves into innovation without judgment or shame. Whether your workspace resembles the pristine order of Agnes Martin or the chaotic energy of Francis Bacon, it should serve as your laboratory for experimentation.Perhaps most profound is the discussion of embedding thought and emotion into physical materials—creating work that communicates even when you're not present to explain it. This alchemical process requires deep listening to both your materials and your inner voice. Great art puts out more energy than went into its making, resonating with viewers on levels beyond literal understanding.We close with an essential reminder: there are no wasted days in the studio. Even apparent failures move your practice forward. The struggle itself is valuable—often taking you further than easy successes ever could. Learn to finish work and move forward rather than getting trapped in perfectionism. Your next piece will benefit from everything you've discovered in creating this one.Whether you're a seasoned artist or just beginning your creative journey, this episode offers practical wisdom and permission to embrace both the struggle and joy of making meaningful work that's distinctly yours.Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

What if the path to becoming an artist wasn't shrouded in mystery but illuminated by practical wisdom? In this deep dive into Jerry Saltz's transformative book "How to Be an Artist," we explore the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic's generous, accessible, and remarkably grounded advice for creative souls at any stage of their journey."Art is for everyone," Saltz declares, immediately dismantling the barriers that keep so many from pursuing their creative calling. Whether you're wondering if you can be an artist without formal education, while working full-time, or while wrestling with crippling self-doubt, his answer rings clear: "Of course you can." Through our conversation, we unpack how Saltz's decades of observing artists have yielded insights that speak directly to the heart of the creative struggle.The book's wisdom resonates powerfully throughout our discussion – from embracing the uncomfortable vulnerability of making art to recognizing that "the faster your work makes sense, the faster people will lose interest." We explore why certainty kills curiosity, how imagination forms the very essence of human existence, and why getting productively lost might be the most direct path to finding your voice. Saltz's practical advice – "cast your nets into the waters" of inspiration and "work, work, work" – offers a refreshing antidote to creative paralysis.Perhaps most encouraging is Saltz's insistence that it's never too late to begin. Through stories of artists who found success later in life (including Saltz himself who didn't become serious about his calling until age 40), we confront the myth that artistic accomplishment requires early specialization. Whether you're just starting out or seeking to deepen your existing practice, this episode offers a roadmap filled with practical wisdom, compassionate encouragement, and the liberating reminder that "nothing happens if you're not working, but anything can happen when you are."Buy "How to be an Artist" by Jerry SaltzSend us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

Have you ever felt like your artwork knows more than you do? In this intimate, unplanned conversation recorded during a Montana retreat, Ty and Nathan explore the vital yet often overlooked practice of soul care for artists.Surrounded by the sounds of birdsong and nestled in Montana's rolling landscape, we dive into what happens when artists intentionally step away from their studios. More than just a luxury, these moments of pause—whether through travel, immersion in nature, or simple daily rituals—fundamentally transform our creative practice and the work that emerges from it.Drawing wisdom from Mary Oliver's poetry collection "Redbird" and Jack Whitten's studio journals, we unpack what it means to create "not for the sake of winning, but for sheer delight and gratitude." Oliver's observation that "it is a serious thing just to be alive on this fresh morning in this broken world" reminds us that pausing to notice our surroundings isn't just pleasant—it's essential to developing our artistic voice.We share our personal soul care practices, from morning reading rituals and mindful walks to the transformative power of travel and trying uncomfortable new experiences. The conversation explores how these moments help us break free from achievement-oriented creation and return to our work with renewed vision. As Whitten noted, "Nature does not think"—it simply exists. There's profound creative wisdom in learning to sometimes just be rather than constantly do.Whether you're struggling with burnout or simply seeking to deepen your creative practice, this conversation offers practical inspiration for incorporating soul care into your artistic journey. Take a moment with us, slow down, and discover how the small pauses might actually hold everything you need.Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

Leonardo Drew invites us into the physical, philosophical, and sometimes painful world of material transformation. Unlike artists who work with found objects carrying built-in histories, Drew deliberately purchases new materials that he must personally weather and transform. "I need to become the weather," he explains, describing a process where he subjects materials to rigorous physical manipulation that often results in literal bloodshed.This physical commitment reflects Drew's deeper philosophy about creation. He describes himself as "the crack addict of art," chasing the highs of creative breakthrough through persistent experimentation and a willingness to fail. His practice demands patience—it took seven years from his initial decision to create what would become his signature style before producing what he considered his first successful piece (which he numbered "8," acknowledging the previous attempts).Drew conceptualizes artists as antennas receiving creative energy from the universe. He purposefully travels to "cradles of civilization" like China and Machu Picchu, absorbing experiences that later emerge organically in his work. "You don't have to say I'm making work about this specifically," he notes, "because that would cage and imprison the whole idea." This philosophy requires "getting out of the way" of one's own creative process—removing ego and preconceptions to allow authentic creation to happen.By refusing to title his monumental works beyond simple numbering, Drew extends his transformation-based practice to the viewing experience itself. Each piece continues to transform through viewers' unique interpretations, creating an endless cycle of meaning-making that transcends the artist's original intent. As Drew profoundly states, "As I'm moving closer and closer to answering questions, at the same time I'm moving further away from the answers."Want to experience this transformative approach in your own creative practice? Keep your channels open by constantly introducing new ideas and techniques. When feeling stuck, switch things up dramatically—if you're a painter, try sculpture; if you work abstractly, attempt representation. The discomfort of new approaches often leads to the most significant breakthroughs.Sources:Leonardo Drew in "Investigation" - Season 7 - "Art in the Twenty-First Century" | Art21An Interview with Leonardo Drew | Wadsworth AntheneumWoodcuts: Leonardo Drew | useum of Arts and Design (MAD)Artist Talk: Leonardo Drew | Amon Carter Museum of American Art Fort WorthCarrie Scott, SEEN Podcast | Leonardo DrewSend us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

The journey from discarded material to transcendent art forms the foundation of our conversation about Leonardo Drew, one of contemporary art's most physically committed and philosophically profound creators. Drew's remarkable journey began in the most unlikely of places—playing in a dump as a child in Tallahassee, Florida—a formative experience that would later inform his artistic sensibility and material relationship.What strikes you immediately about Drew is the joyful contradiction between his ebullient personality and the weighted gravity of his installations. His work appears weathered, aged, and discovered rather than created, yet as we learn, this is a carefully orchestrated illusion. "I don't work with found objects," Drew reveals. "Most of my material I actually create in the studio... I become the weather." This transformation process, where new materials are methodically distressed until they appear to carry centuries of history, speaks to Drew's profound understanding of time, memory, and physical transformation.Perhaps most compelling is Drew's pivotal turning point at age fifteen, when a black-and-white reproduction of a Jackson Pollock painting changed everything. Despite being courted by Marvel and DC Comics for his extraordinary illustrative talents, Drew abandoned this promising commercial path to pursue fine art—a decision requiring remarkable courage. "I decided it was time for me to stop using what I did well," he explains, essentially tying his hands to discover what existed beyond his comfort zone. This willingness to abandon mastery in pursuit of deeper questions characterizes his entire approach.Drew's extraordinary work ethic—rotating between seven projects simultaneously like "crying babies" needing attention—and his seven-year disappearance into the studio to develop his voice demonstrate a commitment few artists match. His perspective on creative struggle as "the most beautiful part of the journey" reminds us that art-making thrives on questions rather than answers. Experience Drew's transformative installations in person to understand why his work commands such reverence among artists and audiences alike.Sources:Leonardo Drew in "Investigation" - Season 7 - "Art in the Twenty-First Century" | Art21https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymMGgOCoK8k&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=5An Interview with Leonardo Drew | Wadsworth Antheneumhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-75fm_UzhYg&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=4Woodcuts: Leonardo Drew | useum of Arts and Design (MAD)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3S2nvDcvU&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqR&index=3Artist Talk: Leonardo Drew | Amon Carter Museum of American Art Fort Worthhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtsqaHfEYxc&list=PLfV5vsCYQApkupBnzNY3YxKpFJeNb7HqRCarrie Scott, SEEN Podcast | Leonardo Drewhttps://open.spotify.com/episode/1a54U1cidMrWratJewuyFy?si=27cd5abd710f4439Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

From Jan 2024. Dive into the provocative world of artistic "theft" as Ty and Nathan explore how creative innovation truly emerges from our influences. This conversation challenges the myth of pure originality, arguing instead that the greatest artists throughout history have been masterful collectors and transformers of ideas.Beginning with Japanese fashion designer Yohji Yamamoto's transformative quote—"Start copying what you love... at the end of the copy you will find yourself"—the duo examines how creative development flourishes through strategic borrowing. From Quentin Tarantino's open acknowledgment of film references to David Bowie's musical influences, the most distinctive voices often emerge from those who've absorbed the most diverse inspirations.They unpack wisdom from creative legends including Jim Jarmusch, Paul Schrader, and Jean-Luc Godard, who all emphasize that true originality lies not in where you take ideas from, but where you take them to. Art movements throughout history—from Impressionism to Abstract Expressionism—evolved through artists stealing ideas from each other while working side by side, proving that innovation rarely emerges in isolation.What distinguishes mere imitation from transformative theft? When does copying become finding your voice? The conversation offers practical advice for artists at every stage: diversify your influences, document what moves you and why, maintain an "omnivorous" approach to inspiration, and create systems to capture ideas when they strike. Ultimately, the episode makes a compelling case that the most authentic artistic expression comes not from avoiding influence, but from embracing it wholeheartedly.Follow us on Instagram @ty_nathan_clark and @nathanturborg to continue exploring how creative influences shape artistic development.Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

Have you ever wondered what exactly an artist residency is and whether it might be the missing piece in your creative journey? In this comprehensive guide, Ty Nathan Clark takes you through everything you need to know about these transformative opportunities.Artist residencies aren't just retreats—they're powerful creative accelerators that provide dedicated time, space, and freedom to focus exclusively on your work. From rural sanctuaries nestled in nature to dynamic urban studios, these programs offer artists the chance to step away from daily distractions and immerse themselves in their practice.The benefits extend far beyond a change of scenery. Residencies foster creative growth through uninterrupted studio time, expose you to new perspectives in unfamiliar environments, build valuable professional networks, provide access to specialized equipment and mentorship, and can significantly enhance your artistic credibility. As one resident reflected, "I left with the certainty that I'm an artist with a commitment to the creative life that I've never since questioned."Finding the right residency requires understanding what you need. Do you crave rural peace or urban energy? Are you seeking community or solitude? Can you self-fund, or do you need financial support? From fully-funded career-makers like Skowhegan and MacDowell to self-directed retreats, there's something for every artist at every career stage—you just need to know where to look and how to successfully apply.Ty shares insider tips for crafting winning applications: be specific about your plans, showcase your strongest recent work, explain why this moment and this particular residency are right for you, and always follow application guidelines meticulously. For those who secure a residency, he offers practical advice on preparing materials, absorbing your surroundings before diving into work, and documenting your experience.Whether you're considering your first residency application or looking to elevate your approach, this episode provides the knowledge and inspiration to take this meaningful step in your artistic journey. Ready to transform your practice through new experiences, connections, and creative freedom?Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg