How to Build and Sell a 2M CPA and Law Firm | Mike Payne

Can you run a half-million-dollar accounting practice completely solo without burning out? Most accounting firm owners and CPAs starting firms assume that scaling past $200k or $300k requires hiring a team of employees. But adding headcount often leads to higher overhead, management headaches, and less personal freedom. In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Angel Zhen, CPA—founder of Angel Zhen CPA and winner of the 2025 Digital CPA Innovative Practitioner Award. Angel shares how he built a single-person practice generating over $500,000 annually while taking 12 weeks of vacation every single year! Whether you're a bookkeeping firm owner, an operations manager, or a firm manager responsible for workflow, this episode offers a masterclass in pricing, positioning, tech selection, and firm design. In this episode, we explore: The Solo Firm Operating Model: How Angel scales past $500k without employees or managing a full-time staff. 12 Weeks of Sabbatical: How Angel designs his firm schedule around long-term travel (including 6-week trips to Asia) without dropping the ball for clients. The "Trusted Advisor" Positioning: Why building a strong online brand and website presence allows you to charge premium prices instead of competing on cost. Value-Based Tax Pricing: Shifting away from hourly billing and "tax prep" to position yourself as an essential tax planner and advisor. The Power of "Doing Less": Why focusing on client outcomes rather than information overload builds stronger client trust. Angel's Practical AI & Tech Stack: How he leverages TaxDome alongside LLMs like ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Blue J for research and workflow efficiency. Key Metrics & Firm Benchmarks: Firm Structure: 1-person firm with a lean, flexible contractor model. Revenue Benchmark: $500,000+ gross revenue. Client Count: ~300 nationwide clients managed through hyper-efficient software systems. Time Off: 12 weeks of vacation per year. Featured Guest: Angel Zhen  

Is the billable hour finally dead? While many in the accounting profession expected the competition for talent to end timesheets, the rise of artificial intelligence (AI) is delivering the final blow. If your firm is still pricing based on time and effort rather than value and outcomes, you are risking your margins in an AI-driven world. In this exclusive fireside chat from the Growing Your Firm Summit, host David Cristello sits down with Ron Baker, founder of the VeraSage Institute, author of 8 best-selling books, and co-host of The Soul of Enterprise podcast. Ron breaks down the core psychology of value pricing, why firms must transition from selling "services" to guiding "transformations," and how subscription models create predictable recurring revenue. In this episode, we explore: The Death of the Billable Hour: Why AI makes pricing by the hour obsolete—and what firms must do to adapt. Value is a Feeling, Not a Number: The psychological factors behind pricing and why nobody should price themselves. Fixed Pricing vs. Value Pricing: Understanding the key differences and why fixed pricing based on hourly estimates is just the starting point. The Concierge Firm Model: How to eliminate "scope creep" by staying in your lane and offering white-glove, subscription-based packages. AI Beyond Efficiency: Why treating AI like a co-collaborator to create value—rather than just a tool to save time—is the key to future firm growth. Ditching Timesheets: What to measure instead of hours to track performance, accountability, and project success. Bonus Segment: Jetpack Workflow Capacity Management Demo Starting at 33:40, David Cristello gives an exclusive first look at Jetpack Workflow Version 2's Capacity Management View. Learn how operations managers and firm managers responsible for workflow can: Gain full visibility into future team workloads across weeks and years. Prevent staff burnout by identifying over-capacity team members instantly. Filter capacity by role, industry expertise, and client packages. Make one-off or recurring project reassignments with drag-and-drop ease.   Featured Guest: Ron Baker

Is your accounting firm stuck between AI enthusiasts who move too fast and skeptical team members who refuse to adopt new technology? Bridging the gap between enthusiastic leadership and hesitant team members is one of the biggest challenges facing modern firms today. In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Jan Haugo, founder and AI researcher at smartaccountant.ai and co-author of Intuit's official AI certification curriculum. Jan researches and validates 50+ emerging AI tools annually for controllership, Record-to-Report (R2R), AP/AR, and advisory workflows. Jan breaks down how to bring your entire firm onboard with AI safely, navigate critical security and redaction requirements, and use AI to transform sales, onboarding, and advisory workflows. In this episode, we explore: Bridging the Team Divide: How to align AI enthusiasts and detractors to move the entire firm forward together. The Enterprise Security Advantage: Why staying within Microsoft Copilot or Google Gemini ecosystems solves the PII (Personally Identifiable Information) and redaction hurdles. The Danger of Adobe Redaction: Why blacking out text in PDFs isn't enough to hide underlying metadata from AI models. Mapping Workflows Backward: Why defining the desired outcome before selecting software leads to better automation. Building a Custom AI "Sales Agent": How to train AI on your unique brand voice to research prospects, analyze websites, and guide discovery calls in real time. The Bleeding Edge: How unified AI awareness layers (like Town.io) aggregate transcripts, email, and task managers into an automated personal assistant. Key AI Tools & Solutions Mentioned: Smart Accountant AI: smartaccountant.ai Enterprise AI: Microsoft Copilot, Google Gemini, and NotebookLM Workflow & Data Aggregation: Town.io, Notion, Asana, and SharePoint Custom AI Prompting: Claude and ChatGPT About Jan Haugo Jan Haugo is a leading AI researcher, trainer, and founder of smartaccountant.ai. She specializes in testing, validating, and deploying practical AI tools for controllership, financial close, and firm operations.   Featured Guest: Jan Haugo  

Is your accounting practice built to scale—or positioned for a high-multiple exit? In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello welcomes back Geoff Bruskin, founder and CEO of White Tiger Connections. Geoff pulls back the curtain on the current "white-hot" public accounting M&A market in 2026. From the rise of Fractional COO engagements to 7x+ EBITDA multiples, Jeff breaks down what buyers are looking for and why private equity (PE) plays fail 40% of the time when they ignore the human element of change management. Whether you're an Operations Manager looking to optimize workflow, a Managing Partner eyeing a future exit, or a CPA starting a firm, this episode is packed with real-world deal structures, go-to-market strategies, and tech implementation blueprints. In this episode, we explore: The Fractional COO Model: Why $1M to $20M accounting firms are hiring fractional executive leaders to build infrastructure for scale rather than overpaying for full-time roles. Inside a 7.4x EBITDA Deal: A deep dive into a $2.7M remote, subscription-based micro-platform firm asking $8M. The PE Spectrum (Successes vs. Failures): Why 30–40% of private equity acquisitions fail due to aggressive price hikes, poor software adoption, and staff turnover. The "Solutions Architect" Role: Why every growing practice needs an internal champion to bridge systems like CCH, TaxDome, Carbon, and CRM tools. Offensive vs. Defensive Strategy: How cross-selling Client Advisory Services (CAS) and wealth management can multiply your firm's enterprise value. Agentic AI & Claude CoWork: How modern leaders use AI agents to automate IT mapping, proposal scoping, and client deliverables. Key Deal Benchmarks Mentioned: Average Deal Multiple: 4x to 6x Adjusted EBITDA for traditional practices. Micro-Platform Multiples: Up to 7.4x+ for firms with 100% subscription models and balanced CAS/Tax integration. Solutions Architect Compensation: $60k to $150k annually (domestic or offshore) to eliminate technology friction. Featured Guest: Geoff Bruskin   Take control of your practice: Optimize your workflow with Jetpack Workflow: https://bit.ly/4bj4a0H 🚀 Sign up for a 14-day free trial to Jetpack Workflow! https://app2.jetpackworkflow.com/auth/login 🚀   Stay Connected: Subscribe for bi-weekly stories from firm owners and modern accounting strategies.   👋 Say hi on social   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jetpackworkflow  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/jetpackworkflow  Twitter: https://x.com/jetpackworkflow  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jetpack_workflow/#    🎙 Listen to Growing Your Firm Podcast   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/growing-your-firm-strategies-for-accountants-cpas-bookkeepers/id923004172 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6MauXYaHFyS0rlb6L3Qb1U Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jetpack-workflow/growing-your-firm   #accounting #accountingfirm #firmgrowth #accountingworkflow  

Can you run a thriving, hyper-local accounting practice while living in Mexico for four months of the year? Most accounting firm owners and managing partners assume that running a local firm requires being chained to a brick-and-mortar office—especially during busy seasons. In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Nancy McClelland, CPA (widely known as The Dancing Accountant). Nancy shares how she built a highly profitable, 100% remote, hyper-local firm in Chicago that allows her to spend every tax season working from Mexico. If you are a bookkeeping firm owner, a CPA starting a firm, or an operations manager trying to fix a broken tax season, this episode provides a masterclass in firm boundaries, client selection, and bookkeeper-to-tax-pro collaboration. In this episode, we unpack: The Hyper-Local Strategy: How Nancy built a 25-year-old firm serving only small businesses within a few specific Chicago neighborhoods. The "No Bookkeeping, No Tax" Rule: Why Nancy refuses to prepare tax returns for clients unless her team handles their monthly bookkeeping and advisory. Fixing the Bookkeeper-to-Tax Pro Handoff: Eliminating duplication of effort, preventing missed reconciliations, and creating a standardized "tax-ready" handoff checklist. Voting Clients Off the Island: How Nancy's team uses quarterly "paid happy hours" to identify and offboard clients who disrespect team members or drag down morale. Shunning "Growth for Growth's Sake": Why turning down new clients and focusing on deep advisory for a capped client base creates a more profitable, stress-free practice. Key Metrics & Workflow Takeaways: 100% Remote Flexibility: How Nancy transitioned her entire team to remote work over a decade ago using simple tools like Zoom, AirTable, and QBO. The Tax-Ready Bookkeeping Standard: Shifting year-end cleanups into recurring, junior-staff-driven monthly processes.   Featured Guest: Nancy McClelland  

Are you running an accounting practice that can survive independent of your personal production, or are your key successors already looking for the nearest exit? In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Ira Rosenbloom, CEO of Optimum Strategies, known across the industry as the "Merger and Profitability Optimizer." With over 25 years of hands-on experience as a practicing CPA and managing partner, Ira pulls back the curtain on how to navigate the complex crossroads of generational change, standardizing client management, and securing maximum value for your firm. Whether you are a managing partner trying to transition equity, a CPAs starting a firm, or an operations manager driving software adoption, this masterclass changes how you view structural firm health. Inside This Episode, We Unpack: The Valuation Multiplier Trap: Why the fastest way to explosive growth isn't just jacking up client fees—it's analyzing fee tiers to identify where leakage actually occurs. Preventing Scope Creep: How to eliminate standard-to-actual time gaps by aligning your team with automated tracking and project margin thresholds. The "Gen-Z" Partnership Disconnect: Why your "locked-in" junior leaders are turning down partnership tracks—and how to redesign firm culture around outcomes instead of clock-punching. The Real Cost of Private Equity: A look at the 50-50 staff retention reality after a roll-up and what a boardroom buyout means for your long-term team autonomy. The Alternative Practice Model: How boutique independent firms can replicate private equity structures by integrating non-CPA advisory services to remain fiercely competitive. Ira's Golden Rule Checklist: The explicit strategic milestones every owner needs to implement between ages 55 and 65 to protect firm lineage. Key Metrics & Operational Takeaways For Firm Managers: Shed Equity Early: Why passing down fractional client liaison-ships ahead of retirement protects your client stickiness from a sudden talent walk-out. Client Tier Consolidation: Shifting bandwidth away from low-margin $3,500 compliance accounts to high-value strategic advisory. Featured Guest: Ira Rosenbloom  

Whether you're a CPA starting a firm, an operations manager, or a managing partner looking at succession options, understanding what actually drives firm valuation in today's intense M&A market is critical. In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Mike Payne, a veteran M&A consultant who has spent nearly two decades facilitating accounting firm mergers, acquisitions, and private equity investments. Mike pulls back the curtain on transactions ranging from $1M to over $100M to explain exactly how buyers evaluate practices and why the traditional metrics you read about are often just hearsay. In this episode, we explore: The Revenue vs. EBITDA Shift: Why the accounting world has fundamentally shifted from gross revenue multiples to Adjusted EBITDA valuations. The Private Equity (PE) Reality: How the massive influx of outside capital is reshaping deal structures, increasing cash at the table, and forcing traditional firms to change. The CAS and Tax Premium: Why a strong Client Accounting Services (CAS) department and recurring, sticky tax revenue can instantly add multiples to your firm's value. The "Airport Test" for Culture: Why early-stage deal-making fails without alignment on culture, leadership, and operational tech stacks. Stress-Testing Internal Succession: Real-world tactical advice for firm owners who want to successfully pass the baton to the next generation of junior partners. The Fiercely Independent Path: Why selling isn't your only choice, and how to build a highly profitable, independent firm by playing defense against consolidation. Key Benchmarks Mentioned: Healthy Profitability: Why 30% to 35% bottom-line profit (pre-owner compensation) is the gold standard benchmark for an attractive firm. Partner Billable Hours: The hidden red flag of high partner-level billable hours that can tank your valuation during due diligence. Featured Guest: Mike Payne  

Can you run a hyper-profitable tax and advisory firm while heavily restricting your personal work hours? Most accounting firm owners and managing partners assume that scaling past six figures requires sacrificing their personal life to the grind.   In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Yuri Kapilovich, Managing Partner of Kapilovich and Associates—known across social media as "The Fun CPA." After spending over a decade handling high-net-worth clients at giant tax firms, Yuri stepped out on his own to build an ultra-lean, highly optimized practice.   Yuri pulls back the curtain on how he structure-built his firm to generate nearly $290k in gross revenue while working only 15 to 25 hours a week! If you're a bookkeeping firm owner, a CPA starting a firm, or an operations manager, this step-by-step masterclass reveals how pricing alignment directly builds lifestyle freedom.   In this episode, we explore: The "Fun CPA" Blueprint: How leaning into raw, honest, and unconventional branding on LinkedIn unlocked massive organic growth. The $2,000 Minimum Baseline: Why establishing rigid price floors protects your team's capacity and eliminates low-margin, high-volume compliance traps. The Three-Tier Revenue Split: Breaking down Yuri's $290k engine—from seasonal tax preparation to core quarterly advisory and monthly recurring client accounting services (CAS). The Ultimate Solo Leverage Strategy: Managing 80 high-value business clients by hyper-utilizing part-time specialized contractor support. Social Media vs. Firm Reality: An honest discussion on managing the mental toll of online comparison and how to strategically filter out vanity metrics.   Key Metrics and Firm Benchmarks Mentioned: Average Relationship Value: $3,500 to $3,600 per client. The "3x" Capacity Rule: Ensuring your fractional team or software tools produce three times their compensation footprint to maintain an elite profit margin.   Featured Guest: Yuri Kapilovich  

Are you a firm owner trying to break past that next big growth plateau? Many managing partners and bookkeeping firm owners find themselves stuck in the daily grind, struggling to build a practice that can survive independent of their personal production.   In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host Dave Cristello sits down with Adam Shay, CPA, a dad, entrepreneur, and high-performance firm coach. Adam pulls back the curtain on his own journey of building, scaling, and ultimately selling a multimillion-dollar accounting firm. Today, through Share the Knowledge LLC, he helps fellow owners design companies built with intention—and positioned perfectly for a future exit.   Whether you are an operations manager trying to optimize workflow or a CPA starting a firm from scratch, this episode offers practical, data-driven strategies to maximize structural efficiency.   In this episode, we unpack: The Firm Snapshot: What Adam's firm looked like two years prior to a successful sale (10 team members and nearly $2M in revenue). Ditching the Compliance Trap: Moving clients to a mandatory high-value advisory package that features proactive tax planning. The "Broken Process Document": Adam's highly practical, low-friction Google Sheets strategy that empowers teams to log workflow bottlenecks as they happen. Capacity & Staff Ownership: How to encourage senior team members to bring proposed solutions rather than just dumping problems on management. The Multiplier Mindset: Key metrics to track weekly, including labor efficiency ratios and technical rework percentages. A Candid Look at M&A: The real-world nuances of working with specialized brokers and navigating post-merger transition periods.   Featured Guest: Adam Shay  

Are you running an accounting practice that relies entirely on your own personal production, or have you built a scalable business that can exist independently of you? For accounting firm owners, managing partners, and CPAs starting firms, understanding how to shift from manual operations to an acquirable business model is the ultimate goal. In this episode of Growing Your Firm, host David Cristello sits down with Joe Manganelli, the former founder and CEO of Calculate. Joe shares his incredible journey of launching, scaling, and successfully selling his outsourced CFO and accounting firm in under seven years. He pulls back the curtain on his aggressive top-line growth strategies, pricing models, and how he scaled his team to nearly 45 headcounts with zero outside funding. In this episode, we explore: - The Bootstrapped Blueprint: How Joe scaled Calculate to a $10M run rate without taking on venture capital or outside investment. - Top-Line Growth vs. Profitability: The strategic decisions behind running a high-growth firm (averaging 75%+ year-over-year) with modest margins. - Frictionless Client Acquisition: Transitioning from exhausting networking events to building a highly efficient, inbound B2B referral network. - The "Experienced" Hiring Strategy: Why your first operations managers and team members should have more experience than you do to truly offload workflow responsibilities. - The Reality of M&A: What the modern sale structure looks like for accounting firms, from equity rollovers to earnouts and transition periods.