The Long Arc of Becoming: Listener Voices From the Other Side of Awake

Description:As we close out the year, we wanted to do something a little different—and a little more tender. In this special end-of-year episode of For the Love, we’re turning the mic over to you. Over the past months, your voicemails have poured in, telling the story of what it’s been like to read Awake: the unraveling, the naming, the grief, the relief, the courage, the slow return to yourself. The messages were so honest and so resonant that we knew we needed to play some of them back—not just to honor the people who shared them, but to remind anyone listening in a similar space that they are not alone. We’ve woven these voices together in four acts, tracing the arc so many of us recognize. Act I — “The Moment Everything Broke” We hear from Nadine, Allison, and Sharon about the before-and-after moments: marriages ending, bodies shamed, the deep wounds of purity culture, and the rupture that comes when the life you were living can no longer hold. Act II — “Finding Language for the Ache” Paulette and Inez share what it means to finally name what couldn’t be named before—untangling attachment and codependence, wrestling with faith, Jesus, and the pain of church rupture, and discovering words for a long-held ache. Act III — “Coming Back to Ourselves” With Kelly and Laura, we witness what healing can look like in motion: reclaiming agency, inhabiting our bodies again, joy returning, learning to cherish yourself, embracing life, committing to therapy, finding community, and being truly seen. Act IV — “Witnessing a Life Over Time” Tracy closes us out with the long view—what it means to trust the slow arc of a life, to be held in shared history, and to witness change unfolding over time. If something in you woke up this year—even painfully—you’re not behind. You’re right on time. And you are certainly not alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Here’s to cherishing ourselves. We have so much to cherish.” – Kelly, For the Love listener “If you’re willing to believe a voice from the future who has been sitting exactly where you are sitting…There is something after this story, even though you can't see that, something good is still coming for you.” – Jen Hatmaker “Everyone's experience can be a lantern to someone else.” – Amy Hardin “This is how it goes. This is how people are inspired and moved. This is how we lend courage to one another by saying our things out loud. And that is literally how my life moved. I listened to other people who were saying their thing out loud and I just was just sitting there quietly listening, going, I wonder if this is something I could consider.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/44U2DuL Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie – https://amzn.to/48UTYcn Jen Hatmaker Book Club – https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club?srsltid=AfmBOooHcTDRzkwfxjaozkEQyYWtFpthqUtOcFwOOiSYTqO7fCTbaEsb Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest, Suleika Jaouad, first captured our collective hearts with her searing memoir Between Two Kingdoms — a book that traced her diagnosis of leukemia, the brutal treatment that followed, and the long, complicated journey of coming home to herself again. It was a Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection back in March 2023, and it has stayed with so many of us. Suleika is an Emmy Award–winning journalist, bestselling author, speaker, and artist whose work asks some of the biggest questions humans ever face: What does it mean to live when life has been shattered? How do we hold hope and devastation at the same time? What does healing actually look like when recovery isn’t linear, or even guaranteed? She is also the founder of The Isolation Journals, a global creative community of more than 100,000 writers, artists, and curious souls who use storytelling and imagination as tools for transformation. Her latest book, The Book of Alchemy, feels is a continuation of her journey — filled with essays, prompts, and reflections from over 100 contributors across disciplines. It’s an invitation to explore how we turn pain into meaning, uncertainty into beauty, and our lives into art. Suleika speaks so generously about what it means to live in the middle — between diagnosis and remission, despair and joy, isolation and connection — and how storytelling helps us metabolize what we’ve lived through. Whether you’re a writer, an artist, someone who’s walking through your own valley, or simply trying to make sense of your story, this episode will speak to you.  Thought-provoking Quotes: There is no right or wrong way to journal. There are no rules. You don’t have to be a good writer. I think it's why journaling appeals to me so much. – Suleika Jaouad I really try to make the journal a sacred space where I get to be my most unedited, most chaotic self. – Suleika Jaouad When I'm not trying to be efficient or productive is when I often end up having my best ideas because I’m not controlling, I'm not pushing, I'm not muscling my way through. – Suleika Jaouad When I stop making certainty or perfection the goal, it releases me from measuring myself against how far I am from that goal. And I get to be more present in what's happening now. – Suleika Jaouad Resources Mentioned in This Episode: American Symphony documentary on Netflix – https://www.netflix.com/title/81728930 The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/3KPqWTD The Art of Survival | In living with cancer, Suleika Jaouad has learned to wrench meaning from our short time on Earth by Jennifer Senior | The Atlantic – https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/suleika-jaouad-writer-health-cancer/678210/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/48KO9y5 The Isolations Journals on Substack – https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Jon Batiste – https://www.jonbatiste.com/ Piano for Super Bowl LIX 2025 – https://noma.org/exhibitions/jaouad-batiste-piano/#exhibition-works Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.suleikajaouad.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/suleikajaouad/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/SuleikaJaouadPage Substack - https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this live, wide-ranging conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by bestselling author and civic educator Sharon McMahon (Sharon Says So) for an honest, funny, and deeply grounding discussion about truth, courage, faith, and what it means to stay awake in uncertain times. Beginning with Sharon joining Jen on stage, the two explore everything from dating after divorce and the wisdom of grandmothers, to how fear and misinformation shape our public life. They reflect on history as a guide, the importance of joy as resistance, and why living fully—especially in anxious seasons—is not a betrayal of others’ suffering. Jen also shares hard-won insight about friendship in midlife, faith after certainty, and the real cost of telling the truth. Together, Jen and Sharon remind us that while waking up is disruptive, staying asleep costs more—and that we don’t have to navigate this moment alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You are not helping anybody by being paralyzed in a state of fear and joylessness.”— Sharon McMahon “There have been people who came before us who lived through so much—and they left their lanterns on the path.” — Sharon McMahon “You do not owe the world a state of paralyzation and fear.”— Sharon McMahon  “One friend can love you back to life. One is enough.” — Jen Hatmaker “Too hard is living asleep at the wheel.”— Jen Hatmaker  “I don’t see good fruit from this tree.”  — Jen Hatmaker  “God is not constrained to a building. I didn’t lose Jesus.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode:                  ➢ Awake by Jen Hatmaker ➢ Me Talk Pretty One Day by David Sedaris ➢ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan ➢ Works by Anne Lamott ➢ Harriet Tubman (historical reference) Guest’s Links: Sharon’s Website– https://sharonmcmahon.com/  Sharon’s Instagram –  https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Substack –  https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Podcast – https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In today’s mind-bending episode, prepare to challenge everything you think you know. Today, we're inviting listeners into a radically inclusive conversation that reimagines ideas about communication, consciousness, and human connection. Award-winning filmmaker and storyteller Ky Dickens joins us to discuss The Telepathy Tapes, her viral podcast documenting the lived experiences of nonspeaking individuals who communicate in ways long dismissed or misunderstood. Through careful listening, deep respect, and investigative rigor, the series challenges entrenched assumptions about intelligence, language, and who gets to be heard—and believed. In conversation with hosts Jen and Amy, Ky explores how nonspeakers are expanding our understanding of connection beyond spoken language, giving insight into telepathic communication and shared consciousness. The episode centers the voices of a community historically excluded from public discourse and asks what becomes possible when we widen our definition of communication, dignity, and belonging. Rather than sensationalizing the unexplained, this conversation treats nonspeakers as authoritative narrators of their own experiences—inviting listeners to confront ableism, reexamine bias, and consider how inclusion begins with attention. Highlights from this Episode: How nonspeaking individuals are redefining communication and agency Dismissed yet fascinating topics like energy healing, animal communication, mediumship, and near-death experiences “The Hill”: a shared metaphysical space described by nonspeakers as a site of connection What these experiences reveal about consciousness, presence, and the enduring human need to belong This episode is a powerful act of listening—one that expands empathy, affirms marginalized voices, and challenges audiences to imagine a more inclusive understanding of what it means to communicate and connect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Maybe instead of fixing the brokenness in society, I should focus on fixing the brokenness in me and in humanity.” – Ky Dickens “I don't think it's binary that people have to be that dogmatic about science, and we don't have to believe in everything. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle. We want to really investigate and understand the truth about the non-physical world, and it's not silly or unscientific or gullible to do so. I think it's a beautiful part of being alive.” – Ky Dickens “One thing I have come to realize deeply is that science and spirituality are not enemies.” – Ky Dickens “I have not met a single non-speaker who doesn't talk about people who've passed and about the very real existence of God in an afterlife.” – Ky Dickens Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Telepathy Tapes – https://thetelepathytapes.com/ BT Harman - https://btharman.com/welcome Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell – https://drdianehennacy.com/ Elizabeth Gilbert – https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Rick Rubin - https://x.com/RickRubin Gregory Shushan – https://www.gregoryshushan.com/ Jane Goodall – https://janegoodall.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetelepathytapes.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetelepathytapes/ Twitter - https://x.com/TelepathyTapes Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPA5cHDlwkvTM7akXINZo9w TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@telepathytapes Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1zigaPaUWO4G9SiFV0Kf1c Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest is someone who instantly made an impression on Jen when they met at a recent Hello Sunshine event in LosAngeles, when she moderated a Shine Away panel with Jen and beloved 9010 star and recent For the Love guest, Jennie Garth. Within five minutes Jen thought, “Okay… she’s one of us.” Warm, sharp, steady — Kanika Chadda-Gupta has this grounding presence that makes a whole room exhale. An award-winning former CNN journalist and producer, Kanika built a thriving career in television news before motherhood rerouted her life in the most profound way. Born in India and raised in the U.S., her story is braided with themes so many of us know intimately: immigration and bicultural identity, the expectations women inherit, the invisible labor we carry, and the endless negotiation between ambition, caregiving, and our own becoming. Today, Kanika is the creator and host of the beloved Total Mom Sense podcast, where she distills her lived experience — raising children while caring for aging parents, navigating mental and emotional load, reinventing purpose in midlife — into practical wisdom for women who are doing it all and feeling all of it. In this conversation, we talk about what happens when life asks us to reevaluate our pace, our priorities, and the stories we’ve been handed about success. We discuss staying rooted inside seasons of huge responsibility, finding yourself in the middle of caregiving, and reclaiming a sense of agency and identity in motherhood and beyond. If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between generations, pulled in every direction, or unsure how to follow your own calling while caring for everyone else — Kanika’s clarity and compassion will feel like a deep breath. This one’s for all of us standing at the intersection of who we were, who we are, and who we’re still becoming. Thought-provoking Quotes: "I like getting the gold star from all of my teachers. I did all the AP classes. I hung out with my teachers at lunchtime. We had open lunch, and it was like you could go to McDonald's, or you could go across the street to the pizza place. But I would go sit with Ms. Townsend, my biology teacher, and just kick it.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "It may be, the only headlights that you see heading to the eye of the storm are the first responders and the reporters. And I thought, I want to be in the eye of the storm. I belong here. I need to be here. I need to prove myself. And so then I stayed.” – Kanika Chadda-Gupta "I was most surprised by how your kids will make you face your childhood trauma head on. My dad and I get along great now, but when we were younger, he would say things that really just shot my self-esteem. And those are the first things that come up when my kids do something wrong and I'm like, wow, I gotta reframe." – Kanika Chadda-Gupta Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Hello Sunshine Shine Away Conference 2025 – https://shineaway.hello-sunshine.com/event/eddb3575-ec80-4812-a371-354c900d7cbf/summary Jim Gaffigan, comedian – https://www.jimgaffigan.com/ Mom Brain with Hilaria Baldwin and Daphne Oz - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mom-brain/id1438292826 Guest’s Links: Website - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Twitter - https://x.com/KanikaChadda Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgkOq_AmLsvu6YJsKglQvSw TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kanikachaddagupta?lang=en Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/kanikachaddagupta/ Podcast - https://kanikachaddagupta.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Peace can feel elusive — globally, socially, personally. So what does it look like to reclaim it? And how do we rise when everything feels beyond dead? In this encore episode, we look back on one of our most galvanizing conversations from our For the Love of Peace series with Father James Martin — Jesuit priest, bestselling author, and one of the most trusted spiritual voices in America. Together, Jen and Father Martin explore what a centuries-old story still teaches us today. Rooted in the raising of Lazarus, their discussion unfolds into a modern invitation: What are we willing to let die so that we can live? Drawing on grief, mystery, advocacy, and the disruptive tenderness of Jesus, this conversation reaches for peace in the places that feel buried — in the church, in our communities, in ourselves. They talk candidly about: why Jesus still disorients us (and why that’s good) the comfort and challenge of real resurrection why faith should push us toward the margins, not away from them and how letting old patterns die brings us closer to peace If you’re hungry for spiritual clarity, exhausted by harmful religion, or longing for a God who feels like a deep breath — this episode is a balm. Father Martin’s humanity and integrity remind us what faith can still be: hopeful, liberating, trustworthy. May this encore meet you where you are — in grief, confusion, curiosity, or longing — and call you to come forth into peace, presence, and new life. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re called to reach out to people who feel—and who are—marginalized and excluded. That’s pretty clear in the gospels. For Jesus there’s no ‘us and them,’ there’s just ‘us.’ He’s about making the community into an us.” — Father James Martin “Jesus is fully human and fully divine. And it’s the fully human part that a lot of people have a hard time with. He weeps, he gets frustrated, he gets tired — and we have to keep those two things in tension, because if we lose sight of either one we risk not really understanding who he is.”— Father James Martin “What are the things in my life — patterns, behaviors, resentments — that I have to let die? What do I want to leave in the tomb? And can I trust that God is calling me to something new?” — Father James Martin “So much of the Christian message is forgiveness — letting resentment, bitterness, and grudges die. That does lead to peace. ‘Peace be with you’ isn’t just comfort — it’s invitation, it’s transformation, it’s listening to God and letting things go.”— Father James Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/494t9Uo The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life by Father James Martin - https://amzn.to/3Kn8KAI Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/44nfAwK Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic  Reuters Article – https://www.reuters.com/world/transsexuals-can-be-baptized-catholic-serve-godparents-vatican-says-2023-11-08/ Come Forth: The Promise of Jesus’s Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin – https://amzn.to/3KS1c9a Mary Karr – https://www.marykarr.com/   The Seven Storey Mountain byThomas Merton – https://amzn.to/44TmdXL Dorothy Day — https://www.dorothydayguild.org/dorothy-day7ce4a03b Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/?hl=en Twitter - https://x.com/JamesMartinSJ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FrJamesMartin/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jamesmartinsj?lang=en Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today we’re talking to someone whose work really hits right where we live this year — in that messy middle space where you know you need joy, but you’re not totally sure how to find your way back to it. Sarah Catherine “SC” Perot created Styles of Joy, which is genuinely one of the most grounding, practical, soul-forward frameworks we’ve encountered in a long time.  SC is an author, speaker, Vanderbilt professor, and self-proclaimed joy enthusiast whose work explores how we reclaim joy in seasons of transition, loss, rebuilding, and reinvention. Her debut book blends personal storytelling, cultural observation, and her CAPS Framework—Cultivate, Adopt, Protect, and Spread—a blueprint for understanding how joy works in us, around us, and through us. In this conversation, we talk about reclaiming joy after difficult seasons, the identity shifts that come with major life transitions, the science and soulfulness of joy, and why small, daily practices matter more than we think. SC brings brilliance, compassion, and practicality to a topic that often feels elusive, reminding us that joy isn’t something we “earn” — it’s something we can cultivate and choose, even in the midst of imperfect lives. If you’ve been craving a reset, a reorientation, or just a little more light in your day, this episode is a beautiful place to begin. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Music is like a scent that can transport us back in time. We have so many memories bookmarked in our heads.” – SC Perot “Joy can meet us in our quiet moments. It can meet us at a concert in a room full of people drowned in confetti. And it can meet us anywhere in between.” – SC Perot “The heat I was getting in my DMs, people are saying, have you lost your mind? You used to be on the straight and narrow. What has happened to you? What is with the feather boas?” – SC Perot “If we know we can tee ourselves up for productivity and if we know we can tee ourselves up for healthy decision making, why would we also not give joy a shot first thing in the morning?” – SC Perot “Joy can start small, just as hope does.” – SC Perot Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Styles of Joy: A Feel-Good Framework for Rediscovering Joy (with a Twist!) by SC Perot – https://amzn.to/48yUooy Harry Styles – https://www.hstyles.co.uk/ The Joy Hotline – https://www.scperot.com/joy-hotline/ Make Your Bed: Little Things That Can Change Your Life...And Maybe the World by Admiral William H. McRaven – https://amzn.to/4oC3iYK Unlocking the Secrets of Consciousness and Telepathy: Ky Dickens and The Telepathy Tapes - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/unlocking-the-secrets-of-consciousness-and-telepathy-ky-dickens-and-the-telepathy-tapes/ Jen Hatmaker | Advent Week One: The Light of Hope – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obh3zvna-ng Elizabeth Gilbert Oprah show botox post on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/p/CCyHEtZh8DG/ Tom Holland “Umbrella” Lip Sync Battle – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk The Guardian | I tried some hacks to make my phone less appealing. It got existential – https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/15/phone-addiction-cut-screen-time-diary Catherine Shannon Substack | Everyone is Numbing Out –  https://catherineshannon.substack.com/p/everyone-is-numbing-out This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch: The Joy of Loving Something--Anything--Like Your Life Depends On It by Tabatha Carvan – https://amzn.to/4pora36 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.scperot.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scperot/ Substack - https://substack.com/@scperot Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If you’ve been lucky enough to stumble upon ‘The Keeper of Lost Things’ the bestselling debut novel by British author Ruth Hogan, you know exactly why it captured our hearts and was selected as our JHBC November Fireside Read selection. This book is a whimsical, tender, and deeply human story about a man who collects seemingly insignificant lost objects — and the woman who inherits both his home and this strange little mission. As she begins to return these “lost things” to their owners, we discover that every object holds a story, every story holds a loss, and every loss holds a little bit of light. Ruth’s own story is just as moving — she began writing after recovering from a serious car accident, during a time when she felt a bit lost herself. And from that season came this debut novel that went on to charm readers all over the world. This book feels like a love letter to brokenness — to the idea that what’s been lost can still be redeemed. It’s a generous, tender book — one that invites us to look closer at the world around us and remember that meaning lives everywhere, even in the smallest things. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was one of those people who thought, ‘I'll write a book one day… it'll happen one day.’ But you should never wait for one day. You should get on with it.” – Ruth Hogan “You can't control what life throws at you but you can control what you do with it.” – Ruth Hogan “I think I write in quite an unusual way, speaking to other authors. I don't worry about planning and plotting. I like it to just come out organically. I will sit down, the story is in my head and it will come out. But what I do do is I edit chapter by chapter, which is a very bizarre way of working. And I'm so finicky that sometimes I can't move on if one word isn't right.” – Ruth Hogan “I'm a great believer that the universe will tell you the right thing to do.” – Ruth Hogan “I love to explore the emotional attachment that we form with objects. And I think it's all about maintaining connections. We will give an object disproportionate significance because it relates to a person that we loved or a memory or a place. I think we all do that. all have objects and we have connections to these objects that make them much more valuable than their intrinsic worth.” – Ruth Hogan “In one of my other books I described my characters as being ‘cracked in the kiln’. Those are the people that I'm interested in. I'm not interested in perfect people. I'm interested in the people who are lost, who have made mistakes. I love that idea of people being repaired and being more beautiful and more valuable because of their life experience.” – Ruth Hogan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Keeper of Lost Things: A Novel by Ruth Hogan - https://amzn.to/4nGYy3p To the Sea by Train: The Golden Age of Railway Travel by Andrew Martin - https://amzn.to/3Jl7fT5 The Secret of Secrets: A Novel by Dan Brown - https://amzn.to/4oQTx9j The Golden Hour by Kate Lord Brown - https://amzn.to/4qMvslX Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.ruthhogan.co.uk/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthmariehoganauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/ruthmariehogan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RuthHoganAuthor/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:In this Road Tripping episode, Jen is joined by one of her dearest friends — the brilliant and beloved author and interviewer, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly read Awake cover to cover (twice!) and came armed to the live Awake Book Tour event in Denver, Colorado with ten of her favorite lines from the book, inviting Jen to riff on each one in real time. What unfolds is a night of belly laughs, truth-telling, and deep reflection on faith, patriarchy, divorce, parenting adult kids, therapy, rebuilding your life, and why middle age is actually the most freeing chapter yet. This conversation is Jen and Kelly at their absolute best: funny, wise, irreverent, and wide open. Growing up inside patriarchal faith systems and the lifelong impact of being taught not to trust your own intuition Why Jen believes that curiosity has never led her wrong — but that certainty has led her down many dead ends The moment that Jen realized the patriarchy harms everyone, including the men and boys she loves How purity culture can shape (and warp) our early ideas about sex, marriage, and womanhood Parenting through divorce and the shift from coaching to comforting Therapy breakthroughs around conflict, attachment styles, codependency, and dropping the need to control others’ emotions Thought-provoking Quotes: “Curiosity has never led me wrong. Certainty has led me down so many dead ends.” —Jen Hatmaker “Patriarchy messed both of us up. Neither one of us was meant to live inside those roles.” —Jen Hatmaker “When you try to rush your kids through their hard feelings, they feel abandoned. Comfort over coaching — that’s where we live.”  —Jen Hatmaker “I’m not your leader. I’m your sister. This book isn’t a prescription. It’s my story handed to you with open hands.”  —Jen Hatmaker “Sometimes the worst thing that ever happens ends up becoming the best thing. Not because of the pain — but because of the life that blooms afterward.” —Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/440b5YW Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan –  https://amzn.to/4an9rUX The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan – https://amzn.to/49Xueyt Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast – https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Who Is Government?: The Untold Story of Public Service by Michael Lewis – https://amzn.to/4pLC3Md Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kelly.corrigan.376 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  Listen in as Jen and Kelly discuss: To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this special Road Tripping episode, Jen invites her partner, actor/activist/author Tyler Merritt, to join her live after a last-minute schedule pivot. What unfolds is a night of honesty, hilarity, vulnerability, and deep connection. Jen reads two scenes from Awake—one from the earliest days of shock and grief, and one from the chaotic, hilarious adventure of dating again at midlife. She shares the moment her body finally allowed her to grieve, the unexpected relief that followed, and how storytelling helped rebuild her life from the inside out. Tyler joins her onstage and opens up about his own journey: discovering creativity as a kid in a sports household, what midlife has taught him, how his rare cancer diagnosis reshaped his priorities, and how their love story began on a night in New York City neither saw coming. He and Jen talk candidly about walking through illness together, finding joy even in hard seasons, and why Awake speaks to all genders—not just women. This episode is tender, funny, surprising, and deeply human—a reminder that grief can crack us open in ways that eventually let the light back in. ★ “My body bypassed my mind and gave itself the gift of grief.” — Jen Hatmaker (reading from Awake) ★ “If creativity is in you, you can’t get rid of it. It will find its way out.” — Tyler Merritt (on discovering his storytelling voice) ★ “Middle age shortens your alphabet — you just have fewer Fs to give.” — Tyler Merritt (describing midlife clarity) ★ “You don’t just get my story of cancer — you get yours, because you chose to love me.” — Tyler Merritt (on his cancer journey and their relationship) ★ “Some of the hardest things you’ve ever been through? You made it. You’re still here.” — Tyler Merritt (reflecting on resilience and survival) ➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rjitZ7➢ This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4ilNtnh➢ Simple Habit meditation app (referenced in the grief scene) - https://www.simplehabit.com/➢ Corey Muscara (meditation guide Jen listened to) – https://corymuscara.com/➢ The Tyler Merritt Project – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/➢ Waitress: The Musical (where Jen and Tyler first met) – https://waitressthemusical.com/ Website – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/Twitter – https://x.com/ttmprojectFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittprojectYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Jen’s Website – https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen’s Instagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen’s Facebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Thought-provoking Quotes:Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Guest’s Links:Connect with Jen! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices