Exploring Embodiment: Insights from Philip Shepherd and Claire Dale

Send us Fan MailI’ve been an admirer of David Abram’s work for a long time, so I was delighted to be invited by the Edinburgh International Centre for Spirituality and Peace to take part in an online forum about his vision. The invitation came when I was beginning to delve into the extraordinary world of the imaginal, and I saw a fundamental link with Abram’s work. I gave the talk in February last year and you can access the full discussion online for a £10 donation to the Centre.For this episode, I’ve recorded a longer and slightly updated version of my original talk. I begin by locating the imaginal: where the concept came from and how I’m using it here. I then tell you a true story of how an animist experience can emerge spontaneously under certain circumstances. I draw on this to frame Abram as an imaginal thinker and argue that the ecological crisis is an imaginal crisis. Before closing, I consider what we can do about our current situation, and tell a story about David Abram and magic. I close by pointing toward what I now know as Imaginal Ecology.I don’t use the term “Imaginal Ecology” in this talk, but I later realised that that’s what it’s about. This marks the start of what has become a much longer journey, and I hope you’ll join me on the adventure.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode of Embodied Pathways, I had the pleasure of speaking with Fernanda Gebara, affectionately known as Fe, a Brazilian scientist, writer, and lecturer with a profound connection to the Amazon rainforest and Indigenous cultures. Fe's extensive experience living and working with the Yawanawá people has deeply informed her work, culminating in her forthcoming book, Chanting Spring: Indigenous Wisdom for Ancestral Futures. This title resonates with Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, as Fe explores the critical question of how we can reconnect with the natural world amidst the ecological and spiritual crises of our time.We began our conversation with an introduction to the Yawanawá people, who have worked tirelessly to recover their culture and spirituality after facing significant exploitation. Fe shared how they have embraced a more international presence, choosing to share their wisdom and practices with the world, which is an usual approach among Indigenous groups.A central theme of our discussion was the concept of the sacred. For Fe, the sacred transcends spirituality; it encompasses a profound quality of presence that invites reverence and respect for all beings and elements of nature. This understanding of the sacred is deeply relational, emphasizing our interconnectedness with the world around us. This leads us to explore the idea of animism, which Fi describes as a way of perceiving life as relational and communicative, extending beyond humans to include trees, rivers, and even objects. This perspective challenges the dominant Western narrative of separation and encourages a more participatory understanding of existence.We then consider the sacred dimension of oxytocin, the "love hormone". Fe highlighted how this hormone, released during childbirth and breastfeeding, symbolizes the sacredness of nurturing and the continuity of life, linking us to a broader biological inheritance.Storytelling and myths emerged as vital pathways for reclaiming our place in the natural world. Fe emphasized that stories shape our understanding of ourselves and our values, and changing the dominant narratives of separation and domination is essential for fostering a more reciprocal relationship with the Earth. Imagination, too, plays a crucial role in connecting us to the spiritual and more-than-human realms. Fe shared insights from her experiences with the Yawanawá , illustrating how imagination serves as a bridge to deeper understanding and connection with the world around us.As we discussed embodied knowing, Fe emphasized the importance of rituals, ceremonies, and practices that engage the body and senses. These experiences cultivate a different kind of intelligence that is often overlooked in Western culture, where rational thought predominates. We touched on the significance of ayahuasca in Indigenous traditions, where it serves as a sacred medicine for community healing and connection. Fe cautioned, however, that as Western society increasingly engages with such practices, it is vital to integrate this knowledge respectfully and meaningfully. This led us to explore the differences between Western and Indigenous consciousness. Fe articulated how Indigenous awareness is more attuned to relationships and community, contrasting sharply with the individualistic and often exploitative mindset prevalent in Western culture. Finally, Fe highlighted the potential for harmonizing Indigenous wisdom with modern technology, emphasizing that technology should be guided by the intelligence of the heart and ancestral knowledge. As we wrapped up our conversation, Fe shared her hopes for the future, emphasizing the need for unlearning and relearning as we navigate the complexities of our time. Her book, set to be released in September, promises to be a significant contribution to this ongoing dialogue.I invite you to listen to this enlightening episode, where we explore the intersections of Indigenous wisdom, ecological consciousness, and the sacredness of our relationships with the world.More about Fernanda Gebara:https://fegebara.com/

Send us Fan MailIt has been a great personal pleasure to welcome Graham Harvey to Embodied Pathways. I first met Graham in 1994, when I was one of the organisers of a Magical Conference in London—a fundraising event for the eco-pagan group, Dragon. That magical encounter ultimately led to Graham inviting me to speak at the first-ever academic conference on Paganism later that year. He would go on to become my PhD supervisor and has continued to support my research ever since.Graham has fundamentally reshaped our understanding of animism—not as a primitive belief system, but as a sophisticated, relational worldview. His groundbreaking 2005 book Animism: Respecting the Living World challenged colonial frameworks and reframed animism as an ethical practice of engaging respectfully with other-than-human persons—rivers, stones, forests, and much more.In our conversation, Graham shares the fascinating journey that led him to this work. His PhD research on ancient texts and self-identities eventually guided him toward exploring the vibrant world of paganism. Transformative experiences at the Stonehenge Festival and an indigenous powwow in Newfoundland sparked his deeper interest in relationships between humans and the larger-than-human world, laying the groundwork for his revolutionary approach to animism.As Graham emphasised throughout our discussion, his work reveals that animism isn't about what people believe, but about how they act, speak, and relate within communities that include more than just humans. We explored the concept of "other-than-human persons"—a phrase that highlights the agency and personhood of non-human entities, challenging conventional views and encouraging us to reconsider how we engage with the world around us.Graham's framing of what is often called New Animism entails "provocative re-evaluations of all ways of being, acting, thinking and relating" (The Handbook of Contemporary Animism, 2015). This raises urgent questions: What changes when we recognise a river or a mountain as a person deserving our respect? How do we live ethically within such a larger-than-human world? And perhaps most pressing in the midst of an ecological crisis, what might we learn from cultures that never forgot that the world is alive and animate?We delved into how animism can inform our understanding of kinship and responsibility in a world that often prioritises consumerism and individualism, exploring the significance of ceremony, gratitude, and the active engagement required to foster meaningful relationships with the environment. This conversation serves as a powerful reminder that we have the capacity to cultivate respectful relationships with the world around us, drawing inspiration from both indigenous practices and our own lived experiences. I hope you find it as inspiring and thought-provoking as I did.Graham Harvey on Wikipedia 

Send us Fan MailIn this episode of Embodied Pathways, I had the immense pleasure of welcoming two remarkable guests: John Seed, a pioneering figure in the Deep Ecology movement, and my dear friend, Karin Raven Steininger, an Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker and Deep Ecology  facilitator. Together, we explored the profound connections between humanity and the natural world, delving into the themes of activism, grief, and the healing power of nature.We began our conversation by discussing how John and Raven found their way into activism. John shared his unexpected journey, which began in a Buddhist community in northern New South Wales, where a call for help from a neighbor ignited a lifelong passion for environmental protection. Raven spoke about her deep connection to the Earth through Paganism, emphasizing that activism is an inherent part of her spiritual life.A significant portion of our discussion focused on the experiential Deep Ecology Workshops that John and Raven have been facilitating. These workshops aim to heal the myth of disconnection between humans and the natural world, allowing participants to listen to their own wisdom and the wisdom of the Earth. Raven described the workshops as collective experiences that create space for grief, anger, and empowerment, while John emphasized the importance of feelings in driving ecological identity and action.We also touched on the concept of embodied knowing, which aligns with the podcast's theme of "Embodied Pathways." Both John and Raven agreed that our bodies are primary routes to consciousness change, and that reconnecting with our ecological identity is essential for meaningful activism. They highlighted the need for ongoing practices and rituals that remind us of our interconnectedness with the Earth, drawing parallels with Indigenous ceremonial life.As our conversation progressed, we explored the role of gratitude in Deep Ecology, with Raven articulating it as an invitation to recognize the abundance of the Earth. John shared a fascinating perspective on the ancient cycles of partnership between humans and the natural world, illustrating how our very existence is intertwined with the life processes of our planet.We concluded the episode by discussing the importance of awe and joy in our connection to nature, and how these emotions can empower us in our activism. Both John and Raven are currently engaged in exciting projects, including upcoming workshops and conservation efforts, which reflect their commitment to fostering a culture of connection and healing.This episode is a heartfelt reminder of the power of community, the necessity of ritual, and the joy that comes from reconnecting with the Earth. I hope you find inspiration in our conversation and feel encouraged to explore your own relationship with nature.John Seed online:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnseed.deepecologyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnseed_deepecologySubstack:  https://substack.com/@johnseedPodcast links, essays, music, films etc. and occasional blog posts at https://johnseed.net/ and https://rainforestinfo.org.au/johnseed.htmThinking Like a Mountain text: http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/deep-eco/TLAM%20text.htmDeep Ecology workshop with John Seed , Karin Raven Steininger and Brother Tenzin, Bellingen, NSW,  Australia, April 25-27 2025: https://events.humanitix.com/deep-ecology-with-john-seed-k

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Peter Cow, a passionate advocate for nature connection and community living. Peter's work integrates permaculture design, rewilding, and the wisdom of the Eight Shields model, emphasizing the importance of both human and nature connections in our lives today.We began our conversation by reflecting on our shared experiences during the environmental protests of the 1990s, particularly the successful campaign to save an ancient woodland from development. Peter shared vivid memories of living in a tree-house at Lyminge Forest, highlighting how that experience ignited his passion for nature and community living. He described the profound sense of purpose and connection that emerged from living in such a vibrant, purpose-driven community.Peter then talked about his time at the Steward Community Woodland, where he deepened his understanding of permaculture and the importance of living sustainably. He emphasized the need for humans to recognize their integral role within nature, advocating for a shift in perspective that sees us as part of the ecosystem rather than separate from it.We explored the principles of permaculture, which focus on creating positive impact living by observing and mimicking natural ecosystems. Peter explained how these principles can be applied not only in agriculture but also in social structures and community living.The conversation also delved into the Eight Shields model, which offers a framework for human optimization based on the practices of indigenous cultures. Peter described how this model can help us cultivate attributes such as happiness, empathy, and connection, ultimately fostering a more supportive and compassionate community.As we wrapped up, Peter shared his insights on the importance of play in nature connection and the need for cultural support to nurture our relationships with the natural world. He provided listeners with resources to connect with his work, including his year-long Nature Connection course and the Nature Culture Network.Overall, this episode was a rich exploration of how we can reconnect with nature and each other, drawing on the wisdom of past experiences and indigenous practices to create a more harmonious and regenerative future.Peter's inspiring journey reveals a fundamental truth: we are part of nature, and human culture can be intimately woven into nature connection.More about Peter's work: An introduction to the Eight Shields course starts on January 29th: Nature's Blueprint Nature Culture Network CampLivingincircles.com https://natureculturenetwork.orghttps://bringingithome.life/ecological-homecoming/https://www.tinosecolodge.gr/news/permaculture-design-course-may-2025/Join the Nature Culture Network newsletter: http://eepurl.com/du0h05

Send us Fan MailAt Autumn Equinox I attended the final workshop of a year long process called Seasonal Alchemy. The weekend included nature connection, meditation, ritual, breathwork, dance and teaching about the Wheel of the Year. I was already familiar with most of these aspects but I was struck by how they were woven together. I was also reminded of the richness of the Wheel of the Year. I’ve been working with the seasonal Wheel for many years but had forgotten its depth and power: I’ve found it hard to hold onto my practice without the support of community. Seasonal Alchemy brings together several of the embodied pathways of connection and I’m delighted to bring you this interview with the team who create it: Lydia Campbell, Hamish Mackay-Lewis anf Jed Hamilton-Shaw.Hamish Mackay-Lewis is a nature guide, leadership coach and facilitator, eternally committed to the wisdom and gift of the moment-to-moment experience. He has a varied and international background having served in the armed forces before going into the field of human development. A perennial student of personal transformation, for the past 12 years he has guided groups and individuals to bring a spirit of adventure into their lives, to look inwardly and honestly and to experience the mutually restorative relationship between land and people. At the heart of his work are the practices of presence, nature connection and breathwork. www.hamishmackaylewis.comLydia Campbell is a teacher, mediator, leadership consultant, coach and mother. She has been immersed in the fertile edge of transformational leadership and healing for the past 20 years in her own life firstly, and externally in delivering retreats across Africa, India and Europe for thousands of attendees. Her work rests on three main pillars: ancient wisdom and shamanic healing arts, facilitation and modern leadership approaches, and a healthy dose of heartful, no-bs, real life grit. www.lydia.ieJed Hamilton-Shaw is a Ritualist, Facilitator, Coach and DJ. He began his nature connection journey in 2021, when the pandemic highlighted a profound need for entering into a deeper relationship with the wild world.He has trained for a number of years with WildWise, a Devon based hub for outdoor education and has worked on the Woods for Wellness project at Dartington Hall as a nature connection facilitator and with Journeyman, a UK charity, mentoring school age boys to help them transition to a generative masculinity. He is also a magical practitioner, DJ and space holder: working in these ways as part of a wider transition to cultural rewilding of this land.You can find him on the paths and ancient byways across his beloved Somerset and beyond. More information about Seasonal Alchemy:https://www.seasonalalchemy.space

Send us Fan MailThirty years ago I gave a presentation that would change my life. I was a Pagan environmental activist and had been invited to deliver a talk at an academic conference at Newcastle University. The event, ‘Paganism in Contemporary Britain’, was the first international academic conference on the subject of Pagan studies and they wanted a Pagan perspective on the environmental crisis. My presentation was called ‘Sacred Ecology’, and it led to me doing a PhD. ‘Sacred Ecology’ was subsequently published and has been more widely read than anything I’ve written since.'Sacred Ecology' considers the environmental crisis and asks; how can we achieve real change? I consider philosophical  options, including Social Ecology and Deep Ecology. I reject both, and present instead my vision for a somatic philosophy that embraces our embodied knowing. I propose ecstatic Pagan ritual as a fundamental pathway to embodied knowing. Such rituals enables us to reconnect with ourselves, healing the rift between body & mind and gifting us a deep knowing of the sacredness of the Earth.Passionate and radical, this presentation is perhaps more important now than it was thirty year ago.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I’m privileged to speak with three Indigenous spiritual leaders. In the first interview I talk to two members of the Willkasara Medicine Family, who have been leading Plant Medicine Ceremonies and Retreats for 50 years. Wachan Bajiyoperak is from a lineage of Peruvian Medicine People. His partner Martika Gomez is a descendent of the Kogi people. They live with their daughter, Shiqwarkenty, in the Sacred Valley of the Inca in Peru. They work with powerful plants including Grandfather Wachuma, the spirit medicine from the San Pedro cactus.My second interview is with Shaneihu, a member of the Yawanawá tribe, and chief of his village in Brazil. Shaneihu has received teachings from different Yawanawa spiritual leaders is steeped in their traditional knowledge.He spends most of his time at Yawarani village, where he receives small groups for spiritual learning and healing. I was fortunate enough to interview him live during a rare visit to the UK.I've edited out the translation of my questions, but Shaneihu's replies are unedited. Indigenous voices are often silenced and I want you to hear what he says in his own language. The translation was provide by the anthropologist and writer Maria Fernanda Gebara.These two ancient traditions are geographically far apart, but have much in common. Sacred Medicine plants are important in both cultures as is an intimacy with the natural world. Wachan and Shaneihu urge us to wake up from the illusion of disconnection that plagues us. Martika, Wachan and Shaneihu all send us an urgent message: We must find connection and right relationship with each other and the natural world. The Willkasara Medicine Family:https://www.willkasara.orgLearn  about the Yawanawá People: https://ikixara.com/Maria Fernanda Gebarahttps://fegebara.com/

Send us Fan MailThis is the third and final episode in a series where I explore embodiment with key thinkers in the field. In this episode, I speak to Lisa Blackman and Glen Mazis, two established and very embodied academics. Professor Lisa Blackman is a researcher in body studies, media, and cultural theory, with a particular interest in subjectivity and embodiment. Lisa is involved in mental health research and was one of the early pioneers of the Hearing Voices movement.Lisa was born with a rare congenital condition that made her different from others, and this experience influenced her work in disability awareness and the implications of living with a non-normative morphology.Her interdisciplinary education, including psychology, philosophy, anthropology, and critical psychiatry, shapes her work. Lisa is interested in challenging normative assumptions about what it means to be human and a subject, rejecting dualistic categories, and embracing radical relationality and interdependence.In her research with a Hearing Voices group, Lisa observed transformational processes that led to changes in the embodied experience of the voices, resulting from shared experiences and a sense of community. She believes that acknowledging interdependency as the starting point is crucial for addressing the multiple crises we face and argues that the individual is porous and interwoven with others.Glen Mazis, an Emeritus Professor of Philosophy and Humanities, brings a unique perspective to the study of embodiment. His work as a Merleau-Ponty scholar and a published poet underscores the significance of embodiment and how our physical presence in the world offers us a distinct experience.His interest in embodiment is rooted in many years of philosophical study and his ongoing challenge to the idea that being embodied is a curse. Glen finds depth and interconnectedness in living through the body, a perspective shaped by the work of Maurice Merleau-Ponty, a philosopher known for his focus on the body and its relation to the world.Glen advocates that the body is our pathway into the world, enabling us to connect with other beings and entities, creating an immersive, interconnected experience of reality. Glen's voice resonates with urgency as he argues for a more embodied understanding of the world.  He expresses concern about the prevalence of a 'disembodied culture' that prioritizes mental manipulation over connections with others and the environment.Glen stresses that feeling the wonder and interconnection with nature is crucial for addressing ecological concerns. He also challenges the perception of individualism, emphasizing that social bonds and interwoven experiences are primarily expressed through embodied interactions.Additionally, Glen asserts that humans need to recognize their animal nature, acknowledging that our exceptional capabilities are rooted in our shared animal bodies.Lisa Blackman: https://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/blackman/ The Body. The Key Concepts: https://www.routledge.com/The-Body-The-Key-Concepts/Blackman/p/book/9781350109414Glen Mazis: http://glenmazis.com/Earthbodies. Rediscovering Our Planetary Senses: https://sunypress.edu/Books/E/Earthbodies2Glen Mazis & David Abram discuss embodied ecology:https://adrianharris.org/blog/2019/06/21/glen-mazis-david-abram-discuss-embodied-ecology/

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I continue my exploration of embodiment by interviewing two prominent figures in the field. First, Philip Shepherd, an actor and creator of the Embodied Present Process, shares his views on how embodiment involves joining the world through feeling and bringing the whole of one's intelligence into coherence with the present. Philip discusses how modern culture fosters disembodiment and offers insights into re-embodying through practices that enhance fluidity, groundedness, spaciousness, centeredness, and attunement. Next, Claire Dale, a former dance company leader and co-author of Physical Intelligence, explains how she developed the concept of Physical Intelligence. Claire emphasizes the importance of understanding and managing the body's chemistry - hormones like oxytocin and serotonin - to achieve flexibility and resilience. She provides practical techniques such as the 'serotonin twist' to help listeners reduce anxiety and improve their Physical Intelligence.The episode delves deep into how embodiment and Physical Intelligence can transform our experience and interactions with the world.Philip Shepherd: https://embodiedpresent.com/pages/philip-shepherdThe Physical Intelligence Institute: https://physicalintelligenceinstitute.com/Books by Philip ShepherdPhysical Intelligence. Harness your body's untapped intelligence to achieve more, stress less and live more happily