#325 Clinical Psychology — Richard Porter

Richard Porter joins Payman to explore the meeting point of clinical dentistry and psychology. From his early struggles adapting to London dental school after growing up in rural Kent, to his current work exploring personality psychology and emotional intelligence in practice, Richard challenges conventional thinking about what makes a truly skilled dentist. He argues that feelings are the currency of human existence—and understanding them is as critical as clinical competence. The discussion moves through burnout, the dark triad of difficult patient personalities, and the tension between contentment and progress, before landing on Richard's passion for helping dentists understand their own minds. It's a conversation that questions everything from dental education to the nature of expertise itself.In This Episode00:01:20 - Backstory00:06:05 - Six pillars of good dentistry00:08:20 - Emotional intelligence and motivation00:13:35 - Psychology journey00:38:25 - Restorative dentistry career00:39:05 - Why implants matter00:41:25 - Hallmarks of expertise00:44:45 - Contentment vs progress01:17:20 - Blackbox thinking01:23:50 - Minimal vs proper tooth preparation01:29:35 - Dentistry's systemic health impact01:34:05 - Green button philosophy01:42:35 - Dentist suicide and burnout01:45:35 - Neuroticism and the N-score01:52:00 - Best lectures, books and courses02:02:30 - Fantasy dinner party02:03:40 - Last days and legacyAbout Richard PorterRichard Porter is a restorative dentist with specialist registrations in prosthodontics, endodontics, restorative dentistry, and special care dentistry. Having trained at Guy's Hospital and worked in maxillofacial surgery, Richard now combines clinical teaching with his deep fascination for personality psychology, focusing on how emotional intelligence shapes patient outcomes and professional wellbeing.

In this episode, orthodontist Zaid Esmail opens up about what really matters in patient care—and it's not just straight teeth. From calling every patient the week after fitting braces to navigating the tension between NHS pragmatism and private practice perfectionism, Zaid reveals why communication trumps technique every time. He shares the terrifying moment a patient swallowed a spring mid-treatment, the legal nightmare of inventing an orthodontic device, and why he built an online academy to teach GDPs the skills they're inevitably going to use anyway. Plus, there's an honest take on conference culture, overtreatment trends, and why he refuses to become the kind of orthodontist who needs cases to pay bills. Want 10% off Zaid's Online Orthodontic Academy course and mentorship? Use code DLPOD10 at https://onlineorthodonticacademy.co.uk/In This Episode00:01:20 - What makes a great orthodontist 00:06:25 - Why he'll never own a fully private practice 00:14:40 - From Iraq to Wales via dental school 00:28:00 - Teaching philosophy and the dangers of weekend courses 00:37:50 - Where GDPs go wrong with orthodontics 00:41:45 - Building the Online Orthodontic Academy 00:52:50 - Blackbox thinking 00:58:05 - Inventing the Eruptor device 01:16:45 - Conference culture and the problem with celebrity orthodontists 01:24:10 - Fantasy dinner party 01:27:10 - Last days and legacyAbout Zaid EsmailZaid Esmail is an orthodontist working at Grosvenor House Orthodontic Practice in Tunbridge Wells, part of the Bupa Dental Care group. He runs the Online Orthodontic Academy, providing diploma-level training and case mentorship for dentists looking to incorporate orthodontics into their practice. Zaid also invented the Eruptor, a device for managing partially erupted teeth. Follow him on Instagram at @onlineorthoacademy and @zaid_mails.

This expansive and deeply reflective episode features Anne-Sophie Flury — neuroscientist, psychology graduate, former PhD researcher, and wellness educator — whose work bridges hard science with lived human experience. Known online as “Coochie by Gucci,” Anne-Sophie brings rare honesty and intellectual clarity to conversations about the brain, trauma, intuition, and emotional agency.Rhona and Payman explore Anne-Sophie’s unconventional academic journey, from leaving a business degree for psychology to working in experimental neuroscience and neuropsychopharmacology alongside leading researchers. Together, they unpack why understanding the brain isn’t enough — and how learning that the brain can change became the turning point in Anne-Sophie’s own mental health and sense of agency.The conversation moves fluidly through modern overwhelm: social media burnout, dopamine addiction, emotional over-identification, and the spiritualisation of feelings. Anne-Sophie offers a grounded, science-based perspective on meditation, psychedelics, mindfulness, and nervous system regulation — cutting through both clinical detachment and performative spirituality.What emerges is a powerful discussion about responsibility without shame, emotional awareness without indulgence, and why separating yourself from your thoughts may be the most liberating skill of all.In This Episode00:00:25 – Returning to Mind Movers & meeting Anne-Sophie00:01:45 – From business to psychology: finding intellectual purpose00:04:15 – Neuroscience, VR research & leaving the PhD00:07:20 – Failure, resilience & unconventional career pivots00:08:30 – “Coochie by Gucci”: identity, grief & online personas00:10:20 – Social media, activism & burnout00:12:30 – Doomscrolling, empathy fatigue & loss of motivation00:14:40 – Perfection culture, comparison & digital disconnection00:18:45 – Psychology vs neuroscience: understanding the brain00:20:05 – Psychedelics, policy & political suppression00:23:00 – What psychedelics actually do to the brain00:27:20 – Mental health, loneliness & early emotional struggles00:30:40 – The moment everything changed: “I can change my brain”00:31:50 – Meditation, neuroplasticity & emotional regulation00:34:00 – Agency, awareness & visualising a different life00:36:00 – Relationships, values & evolving identities00:38:10 – Can core values really change?00:40:10 – Trauma, intuition & emotional misinterpretation00:42:25 – Are we over-validating emotions?00:44:30 – Spiritual bypassing vs real growth00:45:00 – Float tanks, meditation & separating from thought00:48:20 – Anxiety vs intuition: learning the differenceAbout Anne-Sophie FluryAnne-Sophie Flury is a neuroscience and psychology specialist whose work focuses on emotional regulation, nervous system awareness, and personal agency. After completing a psychology degree, a master’s in experimental neuroscience, and publishing research during her PhD, she stepped away from academia to make science accessible in the real world.Blending research, lived experience, and practical tools, Anne-Sophie helps people understand not just why they feel the way they do — but how to change it. Her work challenges emotional fatalism, encourages responsibility without self-blame, and reframes mental health as something dynamic rather than fixed.

Chiara Burgio's path to dentistry started with a Parisian psychoanalyst and a ten-minute stare. What followed was an international training odyssey—from Madrid to Milan, Brazil to NYU—that shaped her approach to aesthetic dentistry. In this conversation, she opens up about the pull of digital workflows, the art of composite layering, and what it really means to work alongside someone like Christian Coachman. But there's a shadow side to her drive, too. That relentless perfectionism, the kind that keeps her reviewing cases long after she's left the practice. It's the thing that makes her brilliant, and the thing she's learning to tame.In This Episode00:01:45 - International roots and family ties00:03:00 - Choosing dentistry over economics00:04:25 - The Parisian psychoanalyst who changed everything00:18:30 - NYU aesthetics programme and American training00:28:45 - Digital dentistry and working with Coachman00:42:15 - Composite layering and aesthetic philosophy00:58:20 - Blackbox thinking01:11:30 - Toxic ambition01:12:40 - Fantasy dinner party01:15:25 - Last days and legacyAbout Chiara BurgioChiara Burgio is a dentist practising in London with a focus on aesthetic and restorative dentistry. She completed the NYU Advanced Aesthetic Program and has trained internationally across Milan, Brazil, and New York, bringing a digital-first approach to composite work and smile design.

In this episode of Dental Leaders, Payman chats with Deepa Patel, a locum dentist with the unique experience of working inside over 100 different practices. Having held every role from nurse and receptionist to practice manager before qualifying, Deepa shares why the happiest practices aren't always the most high-tech, and why the most profitable dentists aren't always the most skilled.They touch on her philosophy of treating "dental and mental health" together and discuss how a transformative 10-day silent meditation retreat shifted her focus from perfection to presence. From humming during extractions to her daily gratitude practice, Deepa reveals to Payman why emotional intelligence is just as vital as clinical precision in modern dentistry.In This Episode01:20 - Mini smile makeovers and composite work04:10 - Mindset around colour conversations05:30 - Lessons from inside 100 practices08:00 - Adapting to different equipment10:20 - Respect for nurses and teamwork12:45 - Why reception is the hardest job14:35 - Handling difficult patients17:10 - Dentists who couldn't do nursing22:30 - Working in corporate versus independent24:45 - Meeting patients in the waiting room30:15 - Teeth colour and ageing33:20 - Humming to keep patients calm37:30 - Ethical treatment planning39:20 - Disagreeing with treatment plans42:05 - Motherhood and work-life balance47:50 - The silent meditation retreat experience50:15 - Living in the moment54:15 - Treating dental and mental health together56:35 - Blackbox thinking01:00:50 - Manager power in corporates01:09:25 - Courses as an investment01:10:10 - Writing ten gratitudes every morningAbout Deepa PatelDeepa Patel qualified as a dentist in India before moving to the UK, where she worked as a hygienist, dental nurse, receptionist, and practice manager whilst completing her ORE exams. She now works two days a week at a Bupa practice and spends the rest of her time as a locum dentist, having gained experience in over 100 different practices across the UK. Deepa completed a transformative 10-day Vipassana silent meditation retreat and practices daily gratitude, writing ten things she's grateful for every morning. She lives in Derbyshire with her husband and two children, aged 16 and 4.

This week, Payman sits down with Adeel Ali, an implantologist who's taken the kind of risks most dentists only talk about. Seven years qualified and he's already built multiple UK practices, mastered full-arch implantology including zygomatics, and most recently moved his family to Qatar to open a clinic from scratch—all whilst flying back every three weeks to maintain UK commitments. The conversation reveals someone refreshingly honest about not being naturally gifted clinically, instead crediting a relentless work ethic inherited from his father's 40-year retail career. They discuss marrying at 24, having kids young, and deliberately choosing to excel in every domain simultaneously rather than sequentially. Adeel's approach to business follows a simple framework: character-assassinate potential partners for integrity, find the best person doing what you want to learn, and when uncertainty hits, pray five times daily and trust it'll work out. From explaining why people should die with fixed teeth rather than dentures to how his wife rewired his mindset about Qatar, this episode offers an unfiltered look at making bold moves work through spiritual conviction and practical ruthlessness.In This Episode00:01:20 - Work ethic and retail roots00:04:25 - Teaching kids about money and work00:09:10 - Family dynamics and sacrifice00:13:50 - Marrying young and choosing fatherhood00:16:50 - Struggling through dental school00:22:15 - Life-changing full arch work00:23:25 - Finding mentors and the Tatum course00:26:25 - Three-tier training programme00:29:10 - Advice for aspiring implantologists00:33:45 - Aha moments in implantology00:43:15 - Mentorship beyond clinical skills00:46:50 - Choosing business partners00:51:15 - Practice acquisitions and growth strategy00:53:20 - Comfortable in the uncomfortable00:56:25 - Faith, religion and rating people holistically00:59:35 - Prayer and God consciousness01:05:50 - The Qatar move01:09:35 - Building London Implant Clinic from scratch01:12:35 - Wife's all-in mentality01:14:10 - Flying lifestyle and health concerns01:18:40 - Fantasy dinner party01:30:35 - Full arch consultation process01:36:25 - Cultural differences treating Qatari patientsAbout Adeel AliAdeel Ali is an implantologist who recently relocated to Qatar whilst maintaining UK practices. He's completed around 800 full arch cases and placed approximately 8,000 implants, focusing primarily on complex zygomatic and pterygoid cases. He runs a three-tier mentorship programme and travels between Qatar and the UK every three weeks.

In this Dental Leaders episode, Payman sits down with Fabian Farbahi, a 22-year-old Sheffield dental student who's already mastered something most people spend decades learning: the power of genuine conversation. Fabian spends 3.5-hour train journeys striking up chats with strangers because he's fascinated by people's stories—the same curiosity that drove him to become president of Sheffield's dental student society and spend two months on elective in Brazil learning Portuguese. They discuss Fabian's refreshingly unformed career path—he's drawn to oral surgery, intrigued by sports dentistry, passionate about public health behaviour change, and comfortable not knowing exactly which direction he'll take. The conversation covers his transformation from small-town student to confident stage presenter, lessons learned managing volunteers without pay, and why the best time to take business risks is when you're young. What emerges is someone who understands that dentistry isn't just about teeth—it's about connection, communication, and throwing yourself into uncomfortable situations until they become second nature.In This Episode00:03:35 - Choosing Sheffield and moving north00:06:45 - Clinical mistakes and university challenges00:07:40 - Student society presidency00:11:25 - Train conversations and connecting with strangers00:14:20 - Getting into dental school struggles00:17:40 - Career interests: implants, oral surgery, sports dentistry00:20:35 - Public health and behaviour change00:26:15 - Implantology path and the dip00:30:05 - Practice ownership versus travel ambitions00:32:20 - Two-month Brazil elective experience00:41:20 - Six-year projections and taking risks young00:44:30 - Managing people without payment00:50:15 - Business culture and leadership style00:54:50 - FDI World Dental Congress in Istanbul00:58:20 - Shadowing at Evo Dental01:01:30 - Sponsor hunting and sales lessons01:06:00 - Finding confidence through reinvention01:08:50 - Fantasy dinner partyAbout Fabian FarbahiFabian Farbahi is a fourth-year Sheffield dental student who served as president of the Sheffield University Dental Student Society. Originally from Taunton, he recently completed a two-month elective in Brazil, working across multiple cities whilst learning Portuguese and immersing himself in the culture.

Nik Sethi returns to the podcast four years after his first appearance alongside brother Sanjay, and what's changed reads like a masterclass in professional evolution. Now president of BAAD and founder of the Elevate education platform, Nik's story isn't about flashy techniques or groundbreaking discoveries—it's about something far more valuable. He's built his success on a simple premise that many overlook: getting the foundations right matters more than chasing the last 5%. Through honest reflections on juggling multiple practices, raising young children, and navigating the occasional courier disaster, Nik reveals how surrounding yourself with the right people and mastering the basics can transform not just your dentistry, but your entire relationship with the profession. His approach to breaking complex cases into manageable checkpoints, leveraging technology for better communication, and building genuine relationships through dental academies offers a blueprint for sustainable success that doesn't require sacrificing your evenings or your sanity.In This Episode00:02:10 - Return to the podcast00:08:00 - BAAD presidency and academy culture00:13:30 - Young BAAD initiative00:16:05 - Post-COVID events and networking value00:20:30 - Career transitions and taking the plunge00:23:15 - Keys to staying happy in dentistry00:26:10 - Elevate education platform origins00:28:00 - Focusing on foundations over the last 5%00:29:00 - Patient communication and relationship building00:36:50 - Building the Elevate diploma00:40:15 - Business ventures and collaboration00:57:25 - Learning from Dev Patel and Dental Beauty01:00:55 - Drew Shah and Dentinal Tubules influence01:02:40 - Leadership and financial education01:04:15 - Spinning multiple plates01:07:15 - Hands-on course disasters and problem solving01:18:05 - Lab relationships and communication01:25:15 - Trust and long-term lab partnerships01:31:20 - Physical impressions versus digital scanning01:33:15 - Using digital technology for patient education01:37:00 - Direct versus indirect treatment decisions01:38:05 - Check scans and real-time lab communication01:40:00 - Managing patient expectations and workflows01:42:30 - Complex case treatment planning in stages01:46:00 - Importance of mastering the basics01:50:35 - Materials knowledge and reducing variables01:54:00 - Continuous learning and accepting failuresAbout Nikhil SethiNikhil Sethi is a restorative dentist and current president of the British Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry (BAAD). He practises at Square Mile Dental Centre in London with his brother Sanjay and colleague Amit, and runs a second practice in Essex. During the COVID lockdown, Nik founded Elevate, an education platform focused on teaching foundational principles in restorative dentistry through webinars and hands-on courses.

When a slipped disc ends your dental career at its peak, what comes next? Randeep Singh Gill's story isn't about endings—it's about radical reinvention. A digital dentistry enthusiast whose career was built on precision and routine, Randeep found himself confronting an identity crisis when chronic neck pain forced him away from practice. But here's where it gets interesting: instead of retreating, he pivoted into the very thing he'd always loved but never pursued: technology. Now he's building Dental CFO, an AI-powered platform designed to give practice owners something he believes they desperately lack: clarity. From workaholic associate to tech founder, Randeep's journey exposes the fragility of our professional identities and the transferable skills we don't realise we possess until we're forced to use them.In This Episode00:04:10 - Why dentistry over computing00:05:25 - Left hand, right hand00:10:15 - Six-day weeks and holiday guilt00:14:30 - When cutting down actually earned more00:20:40 - Identity crisis and the grief of leaving00:26:05 - Teaching himself AI and entrepreneurship00:32:30 - The six-month online course00:38:15 - Finding your niche: Cerec crowns and clarity00:39:05 - Building Dental CFO for real-time intelligence00:42:45 - Financial clarity as obsession00:47:25 - LinkedIn and hundreds of conversations01:03:30 - Blackbox thinking01:13:30 - Mistakes in tech: ego and uncertainty01:17:05 - Squad models and developer dynamics01:20:10 - Missing the people and the routine01:26:55 - AI anxiety and raising kids offline01:29:40 - Competition nightmares in tech01:35:00 - Fantasy dinner party01:37:30 - Last days and legacyAbout Randeep Singh GillRandeep qualified from King's College London in 2009 and spent over a decade as an associate, including 11.5 years at the same practice where he developed a passion for digital dentistry and same-day Cerec crowns. When a cervical disc injury cut his clinical career short, he retrained in AI and entrepreneurship, founding Dental CFO—a platform designed to give dental practice owners real-time financial intelligence and clarity.

Best friends Alisha Sagar and Natalie Gabrawi met at King's dental school and have remained inseparable ever since. In this episode, they share their journey from different backgrounds—Alisha's upbringing in Zambia and Natalie's roots in a medical family—to navigating their foundation years together. Their paths are diverging professionally, with Alisha drawn to implants and oral surgery, whilst Natalie gravitates towards restorative dentistry and aesthetics. Beyond clinical aspirations, they discuss work-life balance, the role of faith, and their commitment to giving back to communities that shaped them. It's a candid conversation about early career decisions, the pressure to succeed, and the power of friendship in weathering the uncertainties of young professional life.In This Episode00:02:10 - Meeting at King's 00:02:15 - Pre-dental school expectations 00:04:05 - Growing up in Zambia 00:07:10 - Coming from a medical family 00:12:30 - Different clinical interests emerge 00:15:25 - Specialising versus special interests 00:19:00 - Three-year career projections 00:26:50 - DCT plans and private practice 00:28:50 - Getting engaged during foundation year 00:34:20 - Work-life balance philosophies 00:44:00 - Entrepreneurial ambitions 00:50:00 - AI anxieties 00:57:25 - Faith and staying optimistic 01:02:10 - Darkest days in dentistry 01:03:50 - Blackbox thinking 01:07:10 - A smile transformation story 01:13:05 - Giving back financially 01:14:50 - Fantasy dinner partyAbout Alisha Sagar and Natalie GabrawiAlisha grew up in Zambia before moving to the UK for her A-levels and dental training at King's College London. Now completing her foundation year, she's discovered a passion for implants and oral surgery after shadowing clinicians in practice. She's recently engaged and balancing personal milestones with ambitious career plans that may one day lead her back to Zambia.Natalie comes from Derby and a family of doctors who actively discouraged her from following in their footsteps. After struggling with self-consciousness about her teeth as a child, she found her calling in dentistry. Now in her foundation year, she's drawn to restorative dentistry and is considering DCT training in the field, with aspirations towards full mouth rehabilitation work.