Embedding AI to dramatically improve the co2 output and energy spend of data centres and other energy-intensive sectors

In this episode, Eva Musso – Head of Sustainability and Government Relations for BASF Canada, talks with Alex about why BASF Canada has had such a strong focus on employee and supply chain sustainability engagement programmes and the value of this activity to the business.  Sustainability cannot be the remit of just one person, but many companies find the scale of the issue and the busyness of staff can be a block to meaningful engagement. So have Eva and her team achieved great results?  We explore: How Eva’s background in Government brought a different lens to the challengeThe context and goals for the engagement element of her sustainability strategyThe goals the Sustain YOU program and employee responseThe most innovative projects to come out of the Site Emission Reduction Challenge and why making it an employee-led competition made a difference·       How employee-driven programs shift the culture of sustainability within a global corporation·       How partnering with external organizations like Bull Frog Power & Iron and Earth, link to sustainability objectives ·       How to engage suppliers to align with BASF’s decarbonization targets – and the role of BASF’s digital application for calculating the cradle-to-gate Product Carbon Footprint (PCF)  For further links and information, check these links out:  Show links: -          Connect with Eva Musso on LinkedIn and explore the BASF Canada sustainability site-          Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-          Join Eva and Alex in Toronto where she will be speaking at Decarb Connect Canada (Toronto, November 2024)Recommended Links from BASF Canada:Bull Frog PowerIron and EarthPCF Clean Commuting Program Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  If you enjoyed this conversation, find out about our portfolio of events in US, Canada, UK and Europe – or explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), and learn why more than 200 members from the energy-intensive sectors have joined to share insights, meet partners who can accelerate their net zero plans and why it’s the fastest growing network of its kind. (00:01) - Introduction (00:02) - Eva Background and Journey into Environmental Science and Sustainability (00:03) - Joining BASF (05:41) - Engaging Employees and Stakeholders in BASF's sustainability mission (07:35) - Measuring the impact of sustainability work (08:58) - The Sustain You Program at BASF: Its goals: education, engagement, and recognition. (11:28) - Initial Engagement and Statistics from the Program (13:49) - Corporate Engagement off the back of the program (14:52) - BASF's Site Emission Reduction Challenge (16:04) - The Impact of implementing an Emissions Reduction Challenge (19:24) - BASF's Decade of Action contest (20:20) - How this program motivated employees (23:00) - How these programs have fostered a cultural shift towards sustainability in the workplace (26:15) - Balancing corporate needs and sustainability objectives when engaging in external partnerships (29:17) - The principles of establishing successful partnerships: transparency, shared vision, and accountability. (30:25) - Maintaining relationships with partners for future projects (31:33) - Managing a complex supply chain: The strategies BASF employs to engage suppliers effectively for measurable sustainability outcomes. (36:07) - The importance of training sales teams to effectively communicate the benefits of sustainable products to customers. (36:29) - Lessons Learned in Stakeholder Engagement: Key takeaways from Eva's experience (00:39) - Final Thoughts and Advice

In this episode Peter Dushenski, Managing Director of GlasCurtain (building materials producer), talks with Alex about the role that nimble and innovative companies can play in driving innovation and decarb activity by larger players.  If you’re someone working in a start up or SME you’ll enjoy this as a clarion call for your work in the climate space – and if you’re working in a larger business, its worth listening in to hear examples of how nimble companies are adapting products for the low carbon market.  The conversation explores what it will take to see more take up of greener/lower co2 materials in construction, how some of the seen and unseen barriers can be managed and GlasCurtain’s own growth in this space.  Show links: -          Connect with Peter Dushenski and the team at GlasCurtain-          Learn more about range of projects Peter is involved in-          Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-          Hear Peter as he speaks at Decarb Connect Canada (Toronto, November 2024) Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  If you enjoyed this conversation, find out about our portfolio of events in US, Canada, UK and Europe – or explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), and learn why more than 200 members from the energy-intensive sectors have joined to share insights, meet partners who can accelerate their net zero plans and why it’s the fastest growing network of its kind.   1:15 Intro 2:34 Who is Peter Dushenski and his journey into the sustainable building with GlasCurtain 6:26 How GlasCurtain’s system reduces both operational and embodied carbon, contributing to decarbonization in building projects 8:39 Why startups are crucial for industry transformation 15:27 How do we help disruptive start-ups survive the early stages of business development? 18:30 The significance of critical mass and infrastructure in driving innovation 21:32 Creating Markets for Lower CO₂ Products 25:58 Balancing Aesthetics, Functionality, and Sustainability in building design  29:32 Integrating Carbon Reduction with the Value Proposition 32.34 The Value Chain Challenge for Green Materials 38:03 Influencing the Decision Makers: Architects and Beyond 43.41 How do we keep the momentum behind decarbonisation  46:44 Collaborating across industries at Decarb Connect Canada 2024 48:36 Closing remarks(01:15) - Intro (00:00) - Chapter 2 (02:34) - Who is Peter Dushenski and his journey into the sustainable building with GlasCurtain (00:00) - Chapter 4 (06:26) - How GlasCurtain’s system reduces both operational and embodied carbon, contributing to decarbonization in building projects (00:00) - Chapter 6 (08:39) - Why startups are crucial for industry transformation (00:00) - Chapter 8 (15:27) - How do we help disruptive start-ups survive the early stages of business development? (00:00) - Chapter 10 (18:30) - The significance of critical mass and infrastructure in driving innovation (00:00) - Chapter 12 (21:32) - Creating Markets for Lower CO₂ Products (00:00) - Chapter 14 (25:58) - Balancing Aesthetics, Functionality, and Sustainability in building design (00:00) - Chapter 16 (29:32) - Integrating Carbon Reduction with the Value Proposition (00:00) - Chapter 18 (00:32) - The Value Chain Challenge for Green Materials (00:00) - Chapter 20 (38:03) - Influencing the Decision Makers: Architects and Beyond (00:00) - Chapter 22 (00:43) - How do we keep the momentum behind decarbonisation (00:00) - Chapter 24 (46:44) - Collaborating across industries at Decarb Connect Canada 2024 (00:00) - Chapter 26 (48:36) - Closing remarks (00:00) - Chapter 28   

Carbon Capture Utilization is a growing category of tech and in this episode Alex Cameron, CEO of Decarb Connect, talks with one of the most advanced disruptors in the space about how they have created a commercial business model for co2 recycling that creates real financial as well as climate value.  Seeing waste (in the form of co2 in particular) as a solution vs problem is the starting point – right now the team uses carbon dioxide emissions from any industry to lower the carbon intensity of concrete and more low-co2 materials are being unlocked through their work. Listen in to hear about their journey and these key takeaways:  What is the range of emissions that Carbon Upcycling can work with and what is their particular client focus?How do they see Industrial circularity developing and how do they fit into this? Dig into the economics of CCU ad how Carbon Upcycling complements CCSYou’ll also explore their business strategy and the business model that aims at a true system-level impact and not just product developmentThe conversation also goes into the scaling of critical climate hardware and how Apoorv and team are getting through each stage of scale so successfully Here are some links and resources to enjoy as you listen to the conversation: -          Connect with Apoorv Sinha and the team at Carbon Upcycling-          Learn more about the tech, projects and plans of the team-          Connect with Alex Cameron, CEO of Decarb Connect and suggest a podcast guest or theme Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series. And while you’re at it, explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), and see if this high-value membership could conntect you to the partners and answers you need in industrial decarbonisation. 

Listen in to this conversation between Fred Clerc, Interim MD of Urban Future Lab (part of NYU Tandon School of Engineering), and Alex Cameron, Founder of Decarb Connect as they talk about the accelerator program UFL runs and its outsized performance results. UFL has welcomed 170 companies into its accelerator programs the last few years, and these have gone on to raise more than $2.5bn and have an 85% success rate.. great stats by anyone’s measure.  You’ll hear about the hardtech landscape that Fred and team focus on and what they have learned in the last few years about the drivers of success for climatetech. UFL works with early stage companies helping hem scale both the tech/IP of their solution, but also the commercial partnerships and business models they need to scale essential climate tech through series A, B, C and beyond.  Key topics: How can we overcome the blocks to scaling complex, but essential, decarb hardware solutions?Who should be stepping into the lead investor role?What are we seeing change in the approach of private and philanthropic capital?What changes and opportunities is Fred seeing in the investor community?With a focus on their c2v cohorts, what pattern is the UFL team seeing in the companies that are able to go beyond Seed/Series A and really get to scale?Examples of key tech that has been through the program and on to funding/scale success Show links: -          Connect with Fred Clerc and the team at Urban Future Labs-          Learn more about the portfolio of tech companies working with UFL-          Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-          Connect with Urban Future Labs across their social links: Newsletter Sign Up • Linkedin • Instagram  Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  If you enjoyed this conversation, join us at Decarb TechInvest in Boston (September 10-11, 2024) or take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series.. 

Join Eduardo Gomez Mendoza, SVP and Head of CRH Ventures as he shares his perspective on how we can scale the most-needed hardware tech to deliver industrial decarbonisation.  Welcome to this special edition of the Decarb Connect podcast featuring one of the 50+ speakers at Decarb Techinvest. We will be exploring, through a few conversations, how we scale up (beyond series B) and truly commercialise the hardware tech that transform our most essential, but co2 intensive, sectors. Eduardo Gomez Mendoza, SVP and Head of CRH Ventures, took on the mission to launch and grow CRH Ventures back in 2022 – in this conversation we talk about how his and the team’s focus has developed, along with his view of how we can scale the most-needed hardware tech to deliver industrial decarbonisation. We take a look at CRH Ventures’ 4 main areas of interest - Decarbonisation, Water, Circularity and Productivity… important to the core business as well as their sustainability goals. It was great to hear about the 4 announced investments in companies helping to create more sustainable outcomes for industry, there is also a a strong pipeline with more investments due to be announced this soon. Listen in to get Eduardo’s perspective on these points:Asset-heavy tech require significant capital to scale – can early tech show they can get the unit economics to work profitably at scale?What times of tech roadmaps and leadership team capabilities are essential for them?More capital is available for climate tech and hard tech and investors are more comfortable with asset-heavy businesses – but how are the expectations and needs of investors changing?The value in having strong technical and commercial teams around the world – what can CRH deliver that other CVCs may not?How are FOAK projects moving from plans to reality (with examples) Show Links: Connect to Eduardo Gomez Mendoza, Head of CRH Ventures and learn more about CRH VenturesConnect with Alex Cameron, Founder of Decarb Connect and find out more about our work with the leaders in industrial decarbonizationLearn more about Decarb TechInvest and the other speakers and guests joining Eduardo onsite If you’ve enjoyed this podcast –join us in Boston from 10-11 September 2024 for Decarb TechInvest.  Eduardo is one of over 50+ speakers from across the industrial decarb tech and investor space. This is the only event that brings both high quality investors (including Eduardo) together with best in class hardtech teams at Series B+. Join us and help drive the momentum and partnership models that will define the next decade of industrial climate tech expansion.  Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire.  

Join Alex Cameron, Founder of Decarb Connect and Anne Lyck Smitshuysen, partner in DynElectro for a discussion about how scaling climate tech can make new hardware platforms cost effective and profitable, even in early stages. Anne is a fuel cell specialist and a member of the Forbes 2023 30 under 30 list – she holds a Masters in Physics and Nanotechnology and is focused on bringing unique Power-to-X technologies to market which produce carbon-neutral green fuels. So much to check out in this conversation, including:  •                    How do we change and challenge the perception that climate tech can’t be economical of profitable•                    What does Anne’s experience of the funding a start up tell us about how to prove to investors that  new tech risk is being managed effectively and that early scale developments will be delivered on time?•                    What is the market for the green fuels created by their Power-to-X platform?•                    Hydrogen is a market that already sees high demand, synthetic fuels will add to this demand so what does this mean for price, risk and opportunity?•                    How does DynElectro compete in the electrolyzer market – specifically, what is it about the tech that allows them to make green fuels competitively?•                    What are the projects and partnerships have they formed (both with investors like Yara Growth Ventures and other stakeholders)  Show links: Connect with Anne Lyck Smitshuysen and learn more about DynElectro’s projects and the associated climate/energy benefitsGet in touch with Alex Cameron and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect in industrial decarbonization Check out some recent news articles about DynElectro’s 11m Euro grant for their next electrolyzer project  Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  Explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), where members share insights and experiences as they accelerate their net zero plans. Check out our full offering and learn more about our members, summits, reports and webinars.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series.  If scaling essential decarb tech is something you’re focused on, join us at Decarb TechInvest in Boston from September 10-11 2024 or in Toronto (November) for Decarb Connect Canada. Keep an eye on all our meetings and events at www.DecarbConnect.com  

If you’re exploring using AI to reduce energy spend and co2 output, or are investing in this space, listen in to Alex’s conversation with Clifford Federspiel, the co-founder and President/CTO of Vigilent, an AI platform focused on optimizing energy use and reducing carbon emissions in data centers. With a background in mechanical engineering and AI/control systems research and applications, Cliff and his co-founders have built a business over 20 years that now operates in 31 countries and serves mission-critical data centres in a variety of settings.  Listen in for these takeaways: -          Detail on the benefits of AI in data centre and industrial environments – manpower, power constraints, capex, water usage and energy -          How to adapt to AI systems, what’s needed in terms of controls – but also what expect and how to maximise their value-          Ensuring teams are able to work through change and overcoming sceptism about AI’s ability to optimize so efficiently and specifically With the global data centre market expanding rapidly, and the energy usage of the average data center increasing to 50 or even 100 MW, managing the efficient use of energy (and its relative co2 output) is essential and not only to the company that owns the facility. Listen in to learn more..  Links: Show links: -          Connect with Clifford Federspiel and learn more about Vigilent’s case studies and climate/energy benefits-          Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-          Watch a short video about how the Brevik plant is pursuing CCS-          Read up on the latest CCS project to be launched, this time in France Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  Explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), where members share insights and experiences as they accelerate their net zero plans. Check out our full offering and learn more about our members, summits, reports and webinars.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series. You could the community of leading decarbonizers at conferences in Berlin (June), Boston (Our TechInvest event in September), Toronto (November), the UK or Houston or at any number of meet ups, site tours and virtual meetings. 

In 2023 the University of Cambridge published details that quantified how manure and synthetic fertilisers emit the equivalent of 2.6 gigatonnes of carbon per year which is more than the emissions from global aviation and shipping combined. Read up on that article in Nature Magazine here.  Global fertiliser production is both essential and also hugely energy-intensive, yielding around 1.5% of total global CO2 emissions. CCm Technologies is a UK-based company scaling up to provide zero carbon fertilisers by taking CO2 waste streams and combining them with organic materials. With plans to triple production in the next few years, and projects in development in India and Europe, listen in to learn more about the FMCG partners who are supporting CCm’s scale up and the opportunity for their cost-comparative fertiliser products. Takeaways: The origins of CCm Technologies and the commercialisation of CCU technologyHow partnerships with major retail and FMCG brands have helped scale CCm’s plansHow the CCU tech works and the business model underpinning itWhy the “green premium” isn’t such a challenge for CCm’s business model and growthFuture plans and scale up Show links: -          Connect with Pawel Kisielewski and follow his work-          Read a profile on CCm Technologies by the Ellen Macarthur Foundation-          Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-          Read up on the pilot between Nestlé, Cargill and CCm Technologies to turn cocoa shells into low carbon fertiliser-          Watch CCm Technologies on the BBC’s Countryfile program Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonisation around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  Explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), where members share insights and experiences as they accelerate their net zero plans. Check out our full offering and learn more about our members, summits, reports and webinars.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series. You could join the community of leading decarbonisers this year, at conferences in Boston (Decarb TechInvest, 10-11 September), Toronto (Decarb Connect Canada, 5-7 November). Or join us next year at Decarb Connect UK, Decarb Connect North America , or Decarb Connect Europe. We also offer a number of meet ups, site tours and virtual meetings for you to join. Sign up to the Decarb Connect newsletter to stay updated.

Listen in to this recording with Dr. Nicola Kimm, Chief Sustainability and Innovation Officer at Heidelberg Materials, to learn about the strategic role that sustainability has at Heidelberg Materials and its involvement at board level, with value chain partners and across key projects.  Key Takeaways-        How involving sustainability at board level drives both the right outcomes but also ensures a business lens for sustainability activity-        Heidelberg Material’s structure for Sustainability: sustainability strategy, R&D, carbon capture, innovation scaling-        The timeline and activity that is supporting the first full-scale net-zero carbon capture cement plant-        How to create and accelerate market demand for Low-Carbon Products-        Why setting a company-wide target of 50% sustainable revenue target by 2030 has led to real engagement and strong outcomes -        Using "lighthouse" projects to showcase innovations like low-carbon wind farm bases Show links: -        Connect with Dr. Nicola Kimm and explore the work of the Heidelberg Materials sustainability group-        Follow Alex Cameron on LinkedIn and find how to get involved with the membership and work of Decarb Connect-        Watch a short video about how the Brevik plant is pursuing CCS-        Read up on the latest CCS project to be launched, this time in France Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  Explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), where members share insights and experiences as they accelerate their net zero plans. Check out our full offering and learn more about our members, summits, reports and webinars.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series. You could the join our community of leading decarbonizers at conferences in Europe, the US, Canada and the UK or at any number of meet ups, site tours and virtual meetings.   

 In this episode we look to a very specific nuclear technology that reuses nuclear waste. You’ll hear from Andrew Murdoch, the Managing Director of UK Ops for newcleo as he talks through the structural and market changes that would support wider use of nuclear as a clean energy.  Key takeaways to listen out for:  What it takes to create a zero carbon nuclear SMR plant?How the technology originated – what were the roots of resuing nuclear waste as a fuel? You’ll hear about the timeline to selling the first clean power from newcleo’s tech?Which markets or offtakers are signing MOUs and most likely to support the growth of this market? Acquiring companies along the value chain – what’s the plan and how does it support expansion? Show links: -        Learn about newcleo’s development activities around lead-cooled fast reactors the at the ENEA-Brasimone centre in Italy (where they are working on all the non-nuclear aspects of their design)-        Find out about newcleo and its leadership team-        Get in touch with Andrew Murdoch, UK Managing Director of newcleo-        Get in touch with Alex Cameron of Decarb Connect on LinkedIn if you’d like to guest host a podcast episode Learn about our Sponsor: Janno MediaMany thanks to our production partner and sponsor Janno Media for their support in delivering this podcast. They continue to facilitate great conversations that connect us with our audience, and their skills and expertise mean we can concentrate exclusively on generating great content to engage, inform and inspire. Want to learn more about Decarb Connect? Our global membership platform, events and facilitated introductions support the acceleration of industrial decarbonization around the world. Our clients include the most energy-intensive industrials from cement, metals and mining, glass, ceramics, chemicals, O&G and many more along with technology disruptors, investors and advisors.  Explore our Decarbonisation Leaders Network (DLN), where members share insights and experiences as they accelerate their net zero plans. Check out our full offering and learn more about our members, summits, reports and webinars.  If you enjoyed this conversation, take a look at the discussions about industrial decarbonisation taking place across our global event series. You could the community of leading decarbonizers at conferences in Berlin (June), Boston (Our TechInvest event in September), Toronto (November), the UK or Houston or at any number of meet ups, site tours and virtual meetings.