#61 - Mr Common Sense - Rich Pzena on how to build an $80bn deep value firm, survive 60% underperformance and buy stocks on under 10x normalised earnings.

David Gardner is the co-founder of The Motley Fool and author of Rule Breaker Investing. He has built an amazing investing record by questioning conventional wisdom and applying his own logic to research. He operates on a principle similar to the VC community where he looks for innovative leaders, buys the stocks when people think they are expensive and after they have gone up. This reverse logic approach has generated huge returns for him and his readers thanks to two 1000-baggers in Nvidia and Amazon and many other 100+ baggers. He delivered over twice the S&P500 for almost 20 years. His strategy may not convince many listeners to abandon a value-oriented approach, but this conversation is guaranteed to make you question the received investment wisdom.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!⁠AlphaSense⁠, the AI-powered expert network platform Baseline, qualitative research on 3600 companies.

Alex Roepers is a concentrated deep value investor who takes a behind the scenes activist approach. Here he explains the strategy which he has exploited over the past near-35 years to outperform the S&P by delivering a 12.3% pa or a 48x return net of fees. We discuss his journey from the corporate to the investing world and his playbook for constructive activism, including how he interacts with management teams. Alex explains how he evaluates management quality, capital allocation and operational improvement opportunities. This is a masterclass in improving returns by persuading management to do the right thing for shareholders. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!⁠AlphaSense⁠, the AI-powered expert network platform 

Rich Pzena, founder of $80bn AUM Pzena Investment Management, explains his value investing philosophy and how he built a deep value franchise by buying good businesses when they are deeply out of favour. He talks through recreating Benjamin Graham’s net net research at Wharton, leaving a secure role at Bernstein to start his own firm, surviving ten quarters of brutal underperformance in the dot com bubble and how he nearly sold out but was persuaded to continue by Joel Greenblatt. Rich explains his clear framework for what makes a good business, how to judge if problems are temporary, and why most investors systematically misprice uncertainty and cyclicality. He thinks deep value investing is just common sense.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!⁠AlphaSense⁠, the AI-powered expert network platform Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!⁠AlphaSense⁠, the AI-powered expert network platform 

James Aitken, macro strategist to the world’s largest and most successful investors, takes Steve on a tour of the key themes in global finance today. You will learn why James is interested in Japan, his views on the new Fed Chair and why inflationary pressures are here to stay as post Covid, we focus on resilience rather than efficiency.James also shares his thoughts on gold, on AI, and importantly on a changing supply-demand balance in US equities. Finally he shares his perspective on what differentiates his clients who include some of the largest and some of the best performing investors in the world, so listen carefully to that and what he predicts we will be talking about in 3 years’ time.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expert network platform 

Jeremy Grantham is known as a permabear and an expert on bubbles so you should not be surprised that he sees an AI-induced bubble today and thinks the market will fall by 50%. He points out that at peaks you always have high multiples applied to abnormally high profit margins and today is no different. We discuss his experiences at GMO, where they didn’t have a sales person for their first 22 years, how his refusal to participate in the dot.com bubble cost him half his clients and none of them came back when he was proved right, how he recruited some of the best minds in finance, and why timing the market can deliver outsize returns.Grantham is no longer managing portfolios, instead devoting his considerable energies to philanthropy. We discuss his foundation’s efforts to combat climate change, to resource depletion, and to toxicity which is affecting fertility – he highlights how population will be in decline unless this is addressed. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build convictionand manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expert network platform Behind the Balance Sheet is aforensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors.Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build convictionand manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks foranalysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk,behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copystock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investingdiscussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5*rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expertnetwork platform 

Michael Cembalest chairs the Market and Investment Strategy group at JP Morgan Asset and Wealth Management and effectively oversees $4tn AUM. He is responsible for market and investment insights across the asset management business and has produced the famous Eye on the Market publication for over 20 years now. We discuss AI, which formed the bulk of his most recent annual edition, why he believes Open AI is a weak link and why he thinks the Treasury market will have a crash, but not yet. Cembalest is known for his charts and he picks both his favourite and his least favourite charts. Michael is one of the most in-depth macro analysts I have met and it’s his depth as well as his breadth of knowledge which is truly impressive. We recorded in JP Morgan’s amazing new office in New York, check out the photos in the show notes.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expert networkplatform 

Rory Sutherland is the Vice Chairman of advertising giant Ogilvy UK, a behavioural scientist, TED speaker, organiser of the Nudgestock conference and so much more. Most important, he is one of the most original thinkers around. In this wide ranging conversation, he explains what accountants and analysts miss, why he believes family-owned businesses are long term winners, two reasons to own Costco, his views on luxury brands, why he thinks electric cars could reshape industries, what short selling has in common with behavioural science and much, much more. Rory is not an investor but there are some tremendous insights here for investors to take away.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips. For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expert networkplatform 

The title “The Sculptor” is a play on a quote “every man can be the sculptor of his own mind”, as Jonathan Tepper is uniquely self-educated. Brought up in the slums of San Blas in Madrid, partly home-schooled, he made it to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar. Tepper is a relentless learner, endlessly curious and in love with investing – as he sees it, you never stop learning and every day is an opportunity to learn. In this episode we discuss his childhood, as recounted in his new book Shooting Up; how curiosity and a desire to learn can transform your opportunity set; and we trace his investment journey, from a start as a junior analyst at Steve Cohen’s firm, through building a highly successful sellside research company to setting up his investment firm Prevatt Capital. He explains why he holds just 16 idiosyncratic stocks and what he looks for in a successful investment. Tepper has had a fascinating journey and has achieved more in just over 40 years than many do in a life of investing – his is a wonderful story.Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.Give our sponsors some love - check them out!AlphaSense, the AI-powered expert networkplatform 

Terry Smith is the fund manager the professionals love tohate. A billionaire, he is in the third and most successful phase of a varied career. He trounced the index for years with a simple mantra of buy good companies, don’t overpay, do nothing. He thus built one of the largest funds inthe UK, made himself a fortune and moved to Mauritius. None of this made him popular with his peers and after 5 years of underperforming the S&P500 (his global fund has been mainly invested in the US) and underperforming the world index in 2025, there is quite a bit of schadenfreude around. Smith used to box for fun and you wouldn’t want to be on thewrong side of him, but in this interview, he reveals a side less often seen. He confesses to being unable to sleep at night, worrying about stocks and expresses an extreme desire to do the best for his clients. Smith has been incredibly successful as an analyst, as a public company CEO and now as a fundmanager. He attributes it to hard work and a strong desire to succeed, driven by his background – Smith comes from a poor family and grew up in a house with an outside toilet. He is frustrated with his recent performance but is resolutethat he has the right approach and will prevail eventually. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.

James Anderson, former Senior Partner of Baillie Gifford and early backer of Elon Musk, now runs the Lingotto Innovation Strategy with Morgan Samet. I interviewed them in front of a live audience at Italian Tech Week, hence this shorter than usual episode. We discussed AI of course, China’s role in a portfolio as a leader in many areas of tech but with associated geopolitical risk, the future of autonomous driving, what it means to be a long term investor in innovation, investing in everything from start-ups to Nvidia and in between including Space X, flying cars and much more. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you will too – let us know if the shorter format is a better option for busy commuters. Behind the Balance Sheet is a forensic accounting and fundamental investing podcast for serious investors. Each episode dives into how real‑world investors source ideas, build conviction and manage their portfolios. You’ll hear frameworks for analysing industries, understanding business models, and thinking about risk, behaviour and incentives, so you can refine your own process rather than copy stock tips.For show notes, transcripts and additional resources, visit our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠. If you value thoughtful, process-driven investing discussions, follow the show and consider leaving a short review, or just a 5* rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please help spread the word.