Episode 171: What About Guilt and Shame? | A Conversation with C.A. Larson, Part 2

Mary once put a vinyl motto above her kitchen door that read, “That’s What We Do!” It was a 4-word description of her life as a Latter-day Saint woman. For many years, she and her husband were “the couple who could get it done” at church. She describes looking back with grace for that younger self: “She was doing the best she could with what she knew. But she was exhausted and her children and family structure suffered. More importantly—she suffered.” Then Mary changed. In Episode 180, she joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about that change and rebuilding her spiritual life from the bottom up, with just 3 components in the foundation: “Love and Jesus and Me ... what else really matters?”

What is spirituality? Am I doing it right? What does it look or feel like? Who decides? Episode 179 rounds out the intro of our theme with an exploration of James Finley’s idea: “The greatest teacher of God’s presence in our life is our life.” Cynthia and Susan discuss the difference between communication and communion, finding points of connection in our daily experiences, and identifying and/or choosing personal spiritual practices for ourselves.

Like flowers in the cracks of a sidewalk, women’s spirituality has had to work its way around and through thousands of years of religious beliefs and practices established and maintained by and for men. “I have stopped trying to make my life look spiritually acceptable to men. Men have very specific criteria for what spirituality is, based on the reality that men have been the only ones writing religious rites and scripture,” explains Brittney Hartley. Her words are deeply resonant for many Latter-day Saint women who struggle to grow our own spirituality in a church that is patriarchy all the way down. In Episode 178, Brittney joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about women defining and redefining for ourselves what spirituality can be.

“There is room to honor and hold space for the precious and the meaningful even as we evolve in our beliefs, our homes, and our lives. It’s okay to bring some things with you.” These wise words from writer Sarah Bessey help shape the conversation of this Season 8 opener. Everyone who’s moved knows it can be hard to decide what to toss and what to keep. Latter-day Saint women may find it challenging to honor the evolution of our personal faith within the church brand we’ve known and loved. It's okay to need more space! How can we incorporate good fruit gleaned from new sources—those off-brand beliefs or practices we’ve found outside our previous boundaries that feel expansive, nourishing, or even essential to our growth?

In this short bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia look ahead to the upcoming season of podcast conversations. Season 8 will center on Latter-day Saint women digging and drawing from our individual spiritual wells. Hope you’ll join us!

In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan revisit part of an earlier discussion exploring the idea of Latter-day Saint women’s complicity in our own marginalization. Recent events have once again highlighted ways women may be the biggest obstacle to achieving greater parity of roles within the organization. It’s still an itchy topic with no easy answers. This conversation is a call for women to support other women as a necessary first step to change. The underlying question remains: if we can’t allow for—and sit with each other in—different experiences, can we truly love one another?

On March 17, 2024 the Church broadcast a Worldwide Relief Society Devotional featuring remarks from the RS General Presidency and President Nelson. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss some of the messages delivered and the social media outpouring from Latter-day Saint women in response.

Some topics come up in these podcast conversations again and again, and that gets our attention. They frustrate us but also feel like obvious opportunities: areas where the church we love could take a step forward, and even small changes might make a big difference. In Episode 173, Cynthia and Susan call out a few of their frustrations and imagine possible responses that would feel like real progress.

Talk a lot about guilt and shame and eventually, you'll probably crave a hefty dose of grace! The conversation in Episode 172 is just that. Cynthia and Susan focus on challenges Latter-day Saints might have decoupling works and grace. Is it possible accepting grace actually requires more faith than depending on our own good works? How might pivoting toward grace propel us forward? Good news spoiler: We don’t have to save ourselves!

In Episode 171, Susan and Cynthia continue their discussion with therapist C.A. Larson about guilt and shame. Where are they coming from? What are some specific ways these emotions might affect Latter-day Saint women, and how can we recognize and work through them in healthy ways?