EP280: Donna Owen, Founder of The Engine, Why the right SALES mindset includes FAILURE

Kerri-Ann Hargreaves, Founder of Consult Ka, explores the evolving world of recruitment, in this episode. Kerri-Ann shares her journey from finance to recruitment and how her business emphasises human connection in an industry often driven by numbers. Kerri-Ann and Lysha reflect on the importance of authenticity, both in social selling and personal branding and how a strong online presence can impact job prospects.They explore the shift from passive to active recruitment, the role of technology and cybersecurity, and the need for recruiters to balance personal relationships with innovation. Kerri-Ann also discusses the consulting side of her work and hints at relaunching her own podcast, Recruitment room 101.Connect with Kerri-Ann here -https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerriannhargreaves/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Welcome Kath Reynolds, Director and Co-founder of Balance Recruitment, with a career spanning over 35 years in finance - 25 of which have been dedicated to recruitment finance, including senior leadership roles at Robert Walters in Sydney and New Zealand. Kath brings a depth of experience and insight into the financial foundations of the recruitment industry.The episode explored the vital role that financial understanding plays in effective leadership and business development. Kath emphasises that without a strong grasp of the numbers, a business lacks a reliable foundation. She explains that leaders must be aligned with individuals who not only understand financial data but can also communicate it clearly, enabling better strategy and decision making.Throughout the discussion, Kath and Lysha highlight the importance of treating individual recruiters as mini businesses, each responsible for their own margins, costs and commercial outcomes. This mindset fosters greater ownership and transparency, which in turn can lead to improved profitability. They also touch on the benefits of involving recruiters in back office processes to strengthen collaboration and drive efficiency.A key theme touched on is the structure of commission schemes. Both explore how incentive models should be aligned with market realities and payment terms. They advocate for systems where payments are made only after clients have paid, to avoid legal complications and encourage long term thinking. Kath shares her experience designing commission schemes that offer flexibility such as monthly or quarterly payments adjusted to invoice timelines whilst maintaining focus on the bigger picture.Kath addresses the growing need for commercial awareness within the industry. Recruiters should understand the financial implications of their work, including the cost of their desks and the revenue they generate. By equipping recruiters with this knowledge, businesses can cultivate a more strategic and financially literate workforce.Connect with Kath here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathreynolds1/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I...

Donna Owen, founder of The Engine, to explore her entrepreneurial journey and expertise in sales and recruitment. Donna shares how she launched her business to support startups and tech companies, emphasising the importance of identifying real world problems and building clear, solution oriented messaging.The conversation dives into the challenges founders face when scaling their sales operations, particularly the transition from founder led sales to a repeatable, team driven process. Donna offers her approach as a fractional sales leader, helping companies build robust sales playbooks and shift from automation heavy strategies back to human-centered selling.Lysha and Donna also tackle the evolving nature of business development in the recruitment industry. They agree that cold calling is becoming obsolete, advocating instead for research driven, personalised outreach sometimes even using platforms like WhatsApp.The episode rounds out with candid discussions on learning from failure, fostering psychological safety in teams and strategies for growing a business through social media. Sharing her goals for expanding her presence on LinkedIn, YouTube and TikTok, with helpful tips from Lysha along the way.Connect with Donna here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnalowen/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Welcome Alistair Collier, founder of The Altech Group, a technology change and transformation recruitment business launched in December 2023. Over 15 years of experience leading recruitment firms, Alistair shares what inspired him to strike out on his own and build a business rooted in purpose and community.Alistair discusses his strategic focus on regional tech markets, emphasising the untapped potential in local recruitment ecosystems. He believes in leading with emotional purpose, cultivating a mature, values driven company culture before scaling. Topics like EDI (Equity, Diversity and Inclusion), CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility), and employee well being are central to his vision.The conversation also delves into Alistair’s hiring philosophy, where financial prudence and team dynamics outweigh short term revenue gains. He candidly critiques past industry trends that favored profit over people and highlights his commitment to doing things differently.Beyond recruitment, Alistair is passionate about community building, particularly in Manchesters change and transformation scene, and the broader Lancashire digital space. Lysha and Alistair explore the role of authentic networking and the value of genuine engagement over transactional relationships.The episode wraps up with a discussion on authenticity in leadership, staying grounded in the realities of the market and how trust, values and meaningful connections define long term success in the recruitment world.Connect with Alistair here- https://www.linkedin.com/in/alistaircollier/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Sanne Wouters, CEO and Founder of RevoData, shares her journey from law student to recruitment professional - working across Liverpool, London and Amsterdam before stepping into leadership as COO of Revo Data. She also runs Empowered by Sanne, a coaching business for founders and hiring managers.Their conversation covers high performance in recruitment with Sanne advocating for sustainable & consistent results over burnout driven peak performance. They discuss challenges in the industry, including unrealistic targets, poor data practices and the need for better communication & transparency. Sanne emphasizes the growing importance of data in recruitment and the value of genuine client relationships.The episode wraps up with thoughts on quality over quantity in candidate selection and a preview of the upcoming live event in London on July 3rd.Connect with Sanne here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/empoweredbysanne/Join us on 3rd of July 2025 at 5.30-8.30PM GMT: Sphere Digital Recruitment, 20 Red Lion St, London WC1R 4PS.Tickets link here: https://lnkd.in/eVpAF4Km-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Renuka Gundala, Founder & Director of Talent Grader LTD. In this episode she shares her, two decade long, journey in recruitment with a focus on executive search and senior roles in the not for profit sector. Starting Talent Grader during the COVID-19 pandemic, she initially provided talent assessments for recruiters and HR professionals then later expanding into executive search services for charities and purpose driven organisations, including B Corps.Renuka emphasises the thoughtful use of psychometric assessments, deploying them only when they serve a clear client need. She also created an online database to help users find the right assessment tools. Despite their potential, these tools are underused by recruitment businesses in hiring for their own teams.Her executive search approach is tailored and client focused, involving case studies, scenarios and occasionally psychometric tools. She values transparency and the human element in recruitment & underscores the recruiters ability to positively shape the hiring process. The conversation also explores equality, diversity and inclusion, acknowledging both ongoing efforts and the challenges posed by shifting political climates.In terms of inclusive hiring, Renuka advocates for empathy and simplicity recommending job descriptions list only 5–6 essential criteria to attract a diverse range of applicants. Her and Lysha stress the importance of designing thoughtful, inclusive recruitment processes that consider the candidate experience.The discussion concludes with advice for recruiters and business founders on building empathetic, inclusive, and value driven hiring practices, especially in the non profit sector, where diversity and mission alignment are key.Connect with Renuka here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/renukagundala/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Rebecca Shannon, Founder of Complement Coaching, with nearly 30 years of Recruitment experience. Transitioned from a successful corporate career at Hays to founding her own consultancy and later becoming a personal coach. Her shift was driven by significant personal changes, including parenthood, caregiving and a divorce. She now focuses on self leadership coaching & helping clients reconnect with their authentic selves.Rebecca emphasises authenticity, especially for women navigating life transitions like menopause. She highlights that coaching is not just for fixing problems but also for supporting ongoing personal and professional growth. Key themes in her work include addressing negative self talk, embracing self awareness and taking small, practical steps toward meaningful change. Throughout she advocates for building strong teams, leaving a positive legacy and living intentionally.Connect with Rebecca here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-shannon/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Kieron Mayers, Head of Marketing at Paiger, explores the evolvement within recruitment, marketing and person branding. Kieron has 15 years of marketing experience in the recruitment industry, working in-house, as a consultant, and now as a recruitment tech product marketer, who we proudly have as a sponsor!In this episode, both reflect on their two-year podcast sponsorship, emphasising authenticity and diversity in content. Kieron highlights the challenges of crafting effective podcast ads and the need for fresh messaging. The conversation shifts into repositioning Paiger as a business development platform for recruiters, stressing market alignment and continuous innovation. They underscore the strategic importance of personal branding, particularly for business leaders and discuss how networking and visibility drive long term recruitment success.Kieron also addresses common misconceptions about marketing in the sector, advocating for a broader, long term view that targets both active and passive audiences. They touch on the ROI of LinkedIn marketing and how their product helps recruiters build lasting client relationships.Connect with Kieron here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieronmayers/https://paiger.co/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Lysha Holmes interviews Abbie Heywood, Founder and principal of The ATeam Dance School. Mentioning her remarkable journey from a dance teacher to a thriving business owner. Abbie reflects on her early days teaching street dance, the creation of the A Team within a different business, and her decision to launch her own dance school in 2018. Over the past seven years, her school has expanded to two branches in different locations, diverse class offerings and a strong community ethos.The episode explores the mindset shifts required to move up to leadership, drawing parallels between the worlds of performing arts and recruitment. Abbie opens up about the challenges of balancing business growth with motherhood, navigating the pandemic, and overcoming imposter syndrome. With the support of a business coach, she learned to delegate, define her values and prioritise what truly matters.Lysha and Abbie delve into themes of resilience, personal development, and the importance of stepping outside comfort zones. Abbie also discusses discuss leadership, integrity in team building and creating inclusive environments. As both women reflect on their journeys, they encourage listeners to embrace change, invest in growth and stay true to their purpose.Connect with Abbie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbie-heywood-696618266/Instagram page - @ateam_dance-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.

Welcome Emma Devereux, Founder of Manteca Recruitment, joining us for the second time after her first episode in our Birmingham Live Podcast Event. In this episode she discusses her entrepreneurial journey of launching Maintech Recruitment during one of the most uncertain times—January 2021, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic.Emma opens up about the challenges of starting a business during a national lockdown and shares the key lessons she’s learned about resilience, leadership, and adapting to change. Drawing from her background in estate agency and transitioning into recruitment during the 2008 recession, Emma talks candidly about navigating economic turbulence - COVID, Brexit, and beyond especially within the engineering and manufacturing sectors. A strong advocate for transparency and empathy, she emphasises a consultative approach to recruitment that puts clients and candidates needs front and centre.Both touch on evolving role of AI in recruitment, how it's reshaping the hiring landscape and the importance of preparing both clients and candidates for long term success. Emma also shares valuable leadership insights, reflecting on the lessons she's learned about setting boundaries, managing performance and leading a leaner, more profitable team.A must listen episode for anyone navigating the ever changing recruitment industry, seeking entrepreneurial wisdom or simply needing a reminder that authenticity and adaptability are powerful business tools.Connect with Emma here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-devereux-maintech/-----------The Recruiter's Recruitment Podcast is proudly sponsored by Paiger and partners to Needi, Keybridge IT and Diversity and Inclusion .Our Sponsor: Paiger - Making Recruiters Smarter and Faster. Paiger helps recruiters build personal brands, identify new business opportunities, attract candidates, and have better conversations.Find out more details on Paiger here - https://paiger.co/?utm_source=podcast...Our Partners: Needi is a concierge gift-matching service using psychology and AI, to pinpoint the perfect gifts and experiences for your recipient, from the best, local independent businesses. Their team of expert gift finders, save companies time and money, with their complimentary corporate gifting service . Find out more here -https://needi.co.uk/Diversity in Recruitment helps recruitment businesses understand diversity, equity, and inclusion in a way that makes sense. Our training and advisory work is designed anidence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.Keybridge IT Solutions is a London-based Fully Managed IT Support and solutions Provider - Providing 24×7 Support to all Customers. Specialities include Microsoft Cloud, including Office 365, Microsoft 365, Microsoft Azure, Security, Internet Connectivity, VoIP, and much more didence to attract diverse talent, recruit inclusively, improve your candidate journey and confidently partner with their clients. DE&I doesn’t have to be complicated and scary - it’s simply about fair, ethical and high-quality recruitment.