Leapfrog

This episode was partly generated by my AI-cloned voice, which narrated my essay Crypto churches and AI evangelism (though it doesn't sound like me).My new writing project Reading the Waves is here: https://readingwaves.substack.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

In this episode, we’re stepping away from the metaverse and AI craze and turning to the world of traditional industries.Venture capital is an often glorified job for young professionals. Will Kurniawan lived that dream for a few years before deciding to leave it behind. Rather than following the typical path for a venture investor — raising his own fund or joining a tech startup — he took an unconventional route by pivoting to traditional sectors.A little over a year ago, Will launched Emerald Lane, a boutique buyout firm, or a ‘serial acquirer,’ that seeks out small and medium-sized businesses. Think of family-owned operations, like a decades-old plumbing service, where the next generation desires more glamorous job titles (perhaps VC) than taking over the family business. Beyond that, Emerald Lane also looks for bootstrapped startups — like a small marketing agency — and businesses in the creator economy.Sometimes I feel as if I’m living in a startup and VC bubble, so it’s refreshing to hear Will, who grew up in Indonesia and studied in the US, talk about his alternative path of working with mom-and-pop shops and other small, scrappy businesses.Timeline2:24 Emerald Lane’s three areas of focus 8:00 Working as a VC in China 9:46 Why Will quit VC (spoiler: Luck plays a big part in VC)14:34 Why Emerald Lane is a holding company rather than a fund19:48 The  ‘proprietary deal flow’ strategy23:57 Doing due diligence on unfamiliar industries 24:52 A fun anecdote of interacting with a seller 27:01 Will’s life essentialsRecommendations How to Get Rich: One of the World's Greatest Entrepreneurs Shares His Secrets by Felix Dennis *Will’s note: the book is much deeper than its slightly cheesy title might suggest This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Happy holidays and welcome to Leapfrog, a podcast exploring global entrepreneurs beyond the American-centric bubble. Thanks for your patience with the delayed update, but this episode will be worth the wait!🎄🤶2024 has flown by, punctuated by continued breakthroughs in generative AI. In this episode, I speak to Raven Gao, a philosophy enthusiast turned computer science graduate who is building an AI platform for generating anime-style characters. As of today, the tool, called PixAI, has attracted over 5 million users, primarily from the US and Japan.This wide-ranging conversation began with Raven’s formative years, where he found solace in meeting international friends through video games. This experience would later inspire him to create a similar “metaverse” for people to form genuine connections. Raven explains how anime lovers use AI to visualize their fantasies, the pros and cons of consuming AI-generated content, and why, after developing tools for anime fans, he wants to empower professional artists as well.Raven also warns of developing emotional attachments to virtual characters, while acknowledging the tricky balance between AI safety and user experience. That raises an even deeper question: what kind of relationship with AI should we, as a society, strive for?Timeline1:34 Raven’s free-ranging adolescence and his online friends6:47 Why Raven was drawn to utilitarianism and why he abandoned philosophy 9:27 The lack of cultural diversity in early AI models12:45 The essence of metaverse (vs a Zoom call)14:20 Youngsters who are “overlooked” seek comfort in AI chatbots 16:30 How to prevent AI from doing harm and why it’s easier said than done20:45 With generative AI, creation is consumption 25:46 The danger of consuming the content one creates for themselves29:22 Empowering Japan’s exploited anime artists with an AI tool 33:06 RecommendationsMentionsThe World is Flat by Thomas FriedmanUtilitarianism, the ethical theory developed by Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart MillCan A.I. Be Blamed for a Teen’s Suicide? (New York Times, October 2024)Principles of Economics by Gregory Mankiw*The cover photo is a screenshot of the Christmas-themed images I generated on PixAI. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Welcome to Episode 7 of Leapfrog, a podcast about global entrepreneurs outside the American-centric bubble.Beijing’s regulatory crackdown on the gaming industry in the late 2010s prompted a wave of Chinese studios to seek overseas expansion. Despite their domestic success and abundant developer talent, these companies often struggled with go-to-market in the foreign land. Ada Liu, who grew up in China and worked in the North American gaming industry, saw an opportunity to launch a startup bridging that gap. Timeline:1:40 Ada said she wasn’t a “good student” in China6:34 Kung Fu Panda inspired Ada to pursue digital arts in the US10:16 Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike Hardcover – April 26, 201611:46 How China’s gaming crackdown presented Ada a startup idea17:20 Ada’s second business — an AI-powered art assets platform23:30 Why the gaming industry is often quick to embrace emerging technologies 28:54 Ada’s recommendations, including Building a StoryBrand - Donald Miller, Oct. 10 2017 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Welcome to Episode 6 of Leapfrog, a podcast about global entrepreneurs outside the American-centric bubble. I apologize for my glitchy voice in this episode; my seven-year-old MacBook suffered from a water damage! Lucy Gao had been studying and working in the US for over a decade before reconnecting with her homeland. Instead of moving back to China physically, she joined the US office of TikTok, the Chinese-owned short video app that was seeing a meteoric rise around 2020, to gain a sense of home.In Silicon Valley, Lucy experienced China’s rigorous “996” culture—working from 9 am to 9 pm, six days a week. She realized that TikTok's competitive advantage might not lie in its AI, but quite the contrary, in its large army of employees worldwide carrying out growth and user engagement tasks through highly manual work. This role, unique to Chinese tech firms, is known as yunying (运营), translated as “operation”, though it differs greatly from its Western definition.Reflecting on her varied experience straddling China and the US, where she transitioned from software engineer to product manager, venture capitalist and now entrepreneur, Lucy also shared her simple rule for making important life decisions: listen to your heart. Timeline:2:17 Making life decisions the way Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs do5:29 TabbyML as an open-source alternative to GitHub Copilot8:18 How Lucy ended up attending high school in the US11:07 Transitioning from software engineering to product management 13:27 Joining TikTok at the dawn of its global dominance 16:02 TikTok’s secret to success — yunying20:06 Reverse culture shock at TikTok23:58 To grow quickly, TikTok needed to rely on its China team early on25:28 Moving back to China and becoming a VC during COVID-1928:40 Lucy’s three life essentialsMentions:* TabbyML, a self-hosted AI coding assistant* Jeff Bezos’ Regret Minimization Framework* Steve Jobs on “connecting the dots,” from his famous commencement address at Stanford University in 2005* Rui Ma’s podcast episode on the “operation” aka Yunying (运营) role at Chinese tech firms, and how it works differently in Western countries This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Welcome to Episode 5 of Leapfrog, a podcast about global entrepreneurs outside the American-centric tech bubble. Special thanks to Emma and Danny’s expert editing help!Emma Meng always seems to be excelling as an outsider.Raised in south China in the 90s, she became the first Chinese to be admitted by Cambridge to study French. After working in the fashion industry in New York, she returned to China and wrote a book about Elon Musk at the dawn of Tesla’s rise to become a household name. After riding her home country’s spectacular boom of battery-powered cars, Emma is now introducing Chinese EVs to the United Arab Emirates.Aside from discussing China’s EV revolution and the UAE’s pursuit of energy diversification, I asked Emma what allowed her to flourish as an outsider in such wide-ranging realms. She harked back to something her sixth form college teacher said, that being Chinese wasn’t her weakness but an advantage.“[My teacher] said she had the most fun reading my essay because my angle was always so different. So when I'm reading Shakespeare, when I'm reading Baudelaire, I'm reading from a modern Chinese woman's angle, which is different from the rest of the crowd in England.I asked her, ‘but how about my grammar mistakes? I could never speak or write as fluently as native speakers.’ And she said, you know, Kate Moss is only 5 ft 7, and she's one of the most famous supermodels. So my teacher just kept telling me what I thought was my weakness can actually be my greatest strength.”Timeline:2:40 Why the UAE wants to learn from Chinese EVs7:55 The UAE’s cultural openness was a surprise10:59 How Emma built trust in her Middle Eastern clients14:50 Going from French literature to the world of battery-powered cars19:19 Why Elon Musk has many female fans, including Emma23:30 Many Chinese are opposed to AI taking over their jobs25:35 How Emma manages to thrive as an outsider30:12 Marketing in the auto industry is still very “masculine”32:45 But in China, women play an increasingly key role in car purchase decisions34:50 Why the biotech industry needs cooperation between China, the UAE and the US36:52 RecommendationsMentions:* Emma’s Weibo account, podcast (大小马聊科技), and her book on Elon Musk (Chinese, 2018)* Emma’s book recs* Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl* The Worlds I See by Fei-Fei Li* Tesla secures Shanghai site for $2 billion China Gigafactory (Reuters, 2018)* China’s EV makers want top oil producing nations to go electric (Bloomberg, 2023)* China’s push for autonomous driving, explained by executives from top players (TechCrunch, 2021)* China biotech scene, U.S. collaborations grow (AACR Journals, 2020)* Chinese women’s car-buying power (Chinese, 21st Century Business Herald and NielsenIQ, 2023) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Hello, this is Rita Liao. Welcome to Episode #4 of Leapfrog, a podcast about entrepreneurs who have left home and are reshaping a slice of the global tech landscape. You can read more about why I started this project in About.In recent years, many young Chinese have decided to leave their homeland for better job prospects and a greater sense of security abroad. Netizens named this phenomenon “rùn” (润), a play on the English word “run”. The term reflects the motivations behind the exodus: economic uncertainties and increasingly limited personal freedom, which were exacerbated by the pandemic. China’s net outflow of emigration surpassed 300,000 in both 2022 and 2023, a significant jump from the 100,000s annual range between 2011 and 2017, according to United Nations data.Among those fleeing, people from the crypto industry are particularly motivated to leave. In 2019, China cracked down on all forms of cryptocurrency trading. Scores of crypto exchanges left China, often moving their founders and employees abroad. But restarting a life in a foreign country isn’t easy. Those who remain in China keep a low profile and manage a remote team across the world, with no physical office or company registration in China.Leah, my guest for this episode, decided to pack up everything and move her family to Singapore. She sought more regulatory certainty for their business and a brighter future for her children. Her move is difficult for her parents, who benefited from China’s rapid economic growth up to the 2010s, to understand. For them, the idea of leaving China, even as it faces challenges, is incomprehensible.Timeline:2:13 Leah joined the crypto industry, attracted to its promise of giving users control over their own data6:15 Crypto gave Chinese people a unique chance to participate in a global economy8:10 Crypto as a belief for people9:29 Leah’s old job at a Chinese tech giant, and monetizing user data11:35 China’s economic uncertainties prompted people to seek opportunities in a new industry and asset class14:44 Living in China’s censored-internet is like being a fish in an aquarium 15:15 Leah moved abroad to give her children a “more open and free” education16:00 Why Chinese entrepreneurs stay in web3 despite the crypto ban18:26 Why Leah moved to Singapore25:17 Managing a team of 60 people across the world26:55 Boosting employee morales when crypto’s image is tainted 28:10 Few people in crypto are actual idealists 34:22 Leah studied English literature in university, but her old job never required her knowledge of the outside world36:41 Leah’s career track is the 1% outliner in her university class38:44 Leah’s parents, who benefited from China’s economic miracles, have a difficult time understanding why she left41:10 RecommendationsLinks:* This piece by NYT’s Li Yuan is a great read on China’s “run” phenomenon and its disillusioned generation. * Despite crypto ban, China’s tech talent rides the global web3 wave (TechCrunch, 2022) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Hello, this is Rita Liao. Welcome to Episode #3 of Leapfrog, a podcast about entrepreneurs who have ventured out of their native land and are reshaping a slice of the global tech landscape. You can read more about why I started this project in About.David Chang belongs to the generation of Chinese who came of age during the nation’s economic reforms, and whose worldview was shaped heavily by China’s increased openness to the world. A cohort of them went on to study abroad and founded tech companies that aspired to capture international markets. In recent years, however, they found it increasingly difficult to go global from China as geopolitical tensions heightened. Rather than taking sides between the US and China, Chang is keeping ties with both while charting an alternative path in Japan, where he’s about to deploy his firm’s autonomous delivery vans.Tune into this episode if you’re curious how Chinese entrepreneurs like Chang are navigating increasing geopolitical complications.Chang himself makes for an intriguing subject. Defiant of norms and authority, he fought his Chinese headmaster over school uniform policy. He rebuked Chinese investors who questioned his qualifications as an eager entrepreneur due to his privileged background. This Tianjin native bridges seemingly opposite qualities. He's both nerdy and flamboyant. He praises Shenzhen’s entrepreneurial spirit while criticizing its burnout culture. Growing up in China's state-oriented economy, he has nonetheless come to embrace free-market ideals inspired by political philosophers like Friedrich Hayek.Timeline:3:40 Why Chang left Baidu as the Chinese tech giant was embracing AI7:42 Shenzhen, the least bureaucratic Chinese city8:55 Chinese VCs are skeptical of founders from wealthy families12:12 Most Chinese autonomous driving founders are ‘too old’14:35 How Chang’s Whale Dynamic cracked the Japanese market16:25 Why Japan is the “best” springboard for Chinese founders going global18:43 Challenges for Chinese firms raising capital from US investors21:25 Chang’s fight with his school headmaster changed his life25:25 Chang had a culture shock arriving in Shenzhen from Tianjin27:17 What the UK taught Chang as a young adult28:46 Why Chang decided to seek US residency31:42 To survive China’s business environment, one needs to be politically sensitive 33:41 Chang’s criticism of ‘involution’ (卷), the burnt-out culture in China36:33 Chang’s defiance against the Chinese education system37:59 Chang’s love for Frederick Hayek and the free market39:07 Adapting to different cultural norms40:34 Being street smart in China42:20 Chang’s three life essentialsMentions:David Chang’s LinkedInBaidu started going ‘all in’ on AI around the mid-2010s (Tech in Asia) China’s burnout culture — involution, or neijuan/内卷 (The New Yorker)Chinese entrepreneurs face increased scrutiny from the West (TechCrunch)Friedrich Hayek, Austrian-British political philosopher of the 20th century and an advocate of free-market capitalism This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Hello, this is Rita Liao. Welcome to Episode #2 of Leapfrog, a podcast about entrepreneurs who have ventured out of their native land and are reshaping a slice of the global tech landscape. You can read more about why I started this project in About.Hailing from a rural chicken farm in eastern China, Winston Chi sauntered into a field after school every day, picking wild berries and daydreaming. It was a carefree childhood contrasting the academically rigorous, sedentary one his urban peers had in the 90s and 2000s. Occasionally, glimpses of the outside world came through gifts from visiting relatives, speaking to his village's history as a source of the Chinese diaspora.When a relative brought home an early-generation iPod, Winston was enchanted — not by what music he’d put in the device, but its ability to store hundreds of songs. The original iPod sparked his interest in technology and a desire to explore the world beyond the berry field.Winston is living in the Bay Area today. I talked to him just weeks after he sold his startup, Butter, to its larger competitor, GrubMarket, a pre-IPO company that offers software tools to farmers and growers across the U.S. On this episode, Winston talked about his journey from the chicken farm to a successful startup exit, the cultural differences he overcame (and is still working on) in the U.S., and how he handled his anxieties in life simply by taking action.Winston’s words that stuck with me:You don't have your family here. You have very limited support. So you actually need to be able to explain what you're planning to do, what's your actions and the potential outcomes to ensure you can gain support from people. One thing I do believe is that if everything shut down, like all the restaurants were shut down… I think there'll be a new norm. In a few years when everything is back to normal, it will not be pre-COVID-19.When I was there [near a California wildfire], the only thing that can deviate me from anxiety is taking actions. And that's still one of the thing I do believe: if you feel like you cannot really think it through on many things, take some actions and you will see through afterwards.Because we didn’t grow up in Silicon Valley or went to Stanford and then work here, we have even a wider view of what the world should be, right? Especially if you are from a third-world country, you've seen the countryside super poor, you've seen the country developed so much in the last 30 years, and you have the belief that the world can be changed.Timeline: 3:30 Winston’s biggest culture shock upon arriving in the U.S.: a society that rewards presentation, a contrast to Chinese people’s faith in meritocracy7:00 Raising capital in Silicon Valley: try to make people’s life 10x better; and pitch in a way that even your grandpa can understand.12:17 Winston doing the intuitive-enough-for-grandpa pitch15:51 Why Winston pivoted from the crypto industry into a backward, “web 0.5” space16:58 How COVID-19 inspired Winston to start a food distribution tech startup19:18 Start building if you have a strong calling. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know the exact solution.22:05 The best ideas always come from taking a walk and grabbing bubble tea with your teammates, not over a Zoom call.26:35 How being an “outsider” positioned Winston well in building a food tech startup in the U.S.28:42 Winston’s childhood in the Chinese countryside 31:18 How the diaspora community in Winston’s village shaped his understanding of the world at a young age38:42 Winston’s three life essentialsMentions:DoorDash founder Tony Xu’s YC pitch in summer 2013GrubMarket buys Butter to give its food distribution tech an AI boost (TechCrunch, May 2024)The Art of Self-Defense, directed by Riley StearnsThe Social Network, directed by David Fincher2001: A Space Odyssey, directed by Stanley Kubrick*Leapfrog is also on Apple Podcast, Spotify and other podcast apps. The RSS feed is: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/2686580.rss This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com

Hello, this is Rita Liao. Welcome to Episode #1 of Leapfrog, a podcast about entrepreneurs who have ventured out of their native land and are reshaping a slice of the global tech landscape. You can read more about why I started this project in About.When Xin Yan heard about Bitcoin in 2017, he was studying electrical engineering in Israel. He soon dropped out of the masters program and joined a wave of entrepreneurs trying to prove that cryptocurrency, and more broadly, blockchain, has real-world utility beyond enabling speculative bubbles and scams. Backed by Sequoia Capital, his startup EthSign is building a digital residency system powered by blockchain technology. In a few weeks, he might be shaking hands with the president of Sierra Leone to bring his solutions to the West African country.Timeline:6:00 The “ideological ivory towers” of the U.S. and China. 9:30 How Xin chose where to reside: a place with inflows of talent and capital, and absent of a “strong culture”14:11 Why blockchain might be the solution to verifying online identities 15:45 Meeting and vetting the “professional ambassadors” of Sierra Leone20:04 Venture capitalist Balaji Srinivasan’s “network state”25:24 Players in the grey area are “always quick to adopt frontier technologies”27:05 Regulators “should spend more time studying the newest technology”27:50 People in China find ways to use crypto despite it being banned33:28 How Xin learned from his grandpa to always seize opportunities in life38:41 Xin’s three unconventional life essentialsLinks:* @realyanxin * The Network State (Balaji Srinivasan)* EthSign brings DocuSign-like features to Line, Telegram with a web3 twist (TechCrunch, December 2023)* Asia emerges as a promising haven amid the crypto winter (TechCrunch, October, 2013)* Despite crypto ban, China’s tech talent rides the global web3 wave (TechCrunch, July 2022)*Special thanks to Jess for drawing the wonderful frog logo, Jordan for sharing the technicalities of podcasting, Vlad for polishing my words, and Yunan and Jason for inspiring my vision.*Leapfrog is also on Apple Podcast and Spotify. The RSS feed is: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/2686580.rss This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit leapfrogs.substack.com