Lawyers in the Making Podcast

This episode with Linda Santoni is a bit of a milestone for the podcast. Linda is a 2L at the University of Bologna in Italy and the first guest I have ever had from Italy, which, by itself, made this a fun one to record. It also happened to be my final episode recorded from Albany before making the move back to Long Island, so a fitting send-off all around.Linda’s path is genuinely unlike anything I have covered before. In Italy, law school is a five-year program that doubles as your bachelor’s degree, so she started right out of high school at 19 years old. Before that, in high school, she focused on Humanities Studies, where she some time reading and learned Greek and Latin texts in their original languages. We got into how that discipline actually translates pretty cleanly to legal work, and it might be one of the most interesting connections I have drawn with a guest in a while.What I really enjoyed about this conversation was where it went after the basics. Linda is deep into international law and has already been to Washington, D.C. for the American Society of International Law’s annual meeting, where she serves as Vice Chair of the International Development Law Interest Group. She also walked through her experience as an advisor for the Philip Jessup International Law Moot Court Competition, which she initially saw as a failure for not making the speaking team, but turned into one of the most valuable experiences she has had. The whole “failure opening doors you wouldn’t have seen otherwise” thing landed.We also got philosophical, which you knew was going to happen the second she mentioned reading Aristotle in Greek. I asked Linda about her take on the American Dream for young lawyers, and her answer about community impact and giving a voice to people who get neglected by the system was genuinely one of the more thoughtful answers I have gotten to that kind of question.Linda’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/linda-santoniBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

This episode with Victoria Callier is a great one to close out a guest’s law school chapter on. Victoria is a recent graduate of UNLV School of Law and a semi-finalist for Rhetoric’s Moot Court Madness competition. Victoria takes us down her journey, from being a kid in Las Vegas who would pick an animal of the week and force her parents to sit through a full persuasive presentation on why it was the best one, to studying English at SMU, to coming back home to UNLV and heading off to clerk for the Nevada Supreme Court in Reno right after the bar.What I appreciated most about this conversation is Victoria’s honesty. She did not love 1L, and she says so plainly. She went into her first semester treating everyone as competition before a study group completely turned her mental well-being around. She also walked into law school set on immigration and asylum work, then realized through her internships that she did not have the emotional bandwidth for it, and was self-aware enough to pivot toward the corporate research and writing she actually loves. Oh, and somewhere in the middle of all of that, she was Miss Nevada and runs a mental health nonprofit she started back in high school called More Than You Think.Victoria also gets into Moot Court Madness and how the AI feedback from her first run, which she was handing over information without actually persuading anyone, reshaped the way she reads cases and builds arguments. Her closing advice is simple, but it stuck with me: find what you love about the law and hold onto it, because that “why” is what carries you through the moments you want to quit.A genuinely fun and honest conversation, and a fitting send-off as Victoria heads into her clerkship.Victoria’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriacallierBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

This episode with Daniel Radigan is one I have been looking forward to for a while. Danny is a 3L at Case Western Reserve University School of Law and a finalist for Rhetoric’s Moot Court Madness competition. Danny takes us down his journey, from growing up in Cleveland to playing Division I soccer as a goalie at Duquesne University, to working for his distant cousin Scott Lynch at a small probate firm in Chardon, Ohio, that ultimately sold him on going to law school.What stands out about Danny is just how much he has taken advantage of his time in law school. He has stacked clerkships and externships at the Milton Kramer Law Clinic, the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Ohio, and a summer associate position at Porter Wright, all leading up to a summer at Baker Hostetler and a federal clerkship lined up after graduation with a Judge in Pittsburgh, who he actually took a pre-law class with as a junior in undergrad. A full-circle moment if there ever was one. Danny also gets into his love of moot court, his thoughts on AI in legal writing, and his honest take on using Cicero throughout the Moot Court Madness competition.This was a fantastic conversation with a guy who is clearly going to make a great attorney one day!Danny’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-radiganBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

This episode with Harry O’Connell is one of the most unique stories I have had on this podcast. Harry is a current law student at Griffith College Dublin and the blogger behind Across the Pond Under the Law, but before any of that, he was a member of the Irish boy band Next In Line, signed to a record deal at 18 with legendary manager Louis Walsh (the same guy who helped form One Direction). Harry takes us through his journey, from only singing in front of people for the first time at 16 to getting out of class in his school musical, to auditioning alongside 4,000 people and making it into the group, to signing publishing, recording, and merchandise deals in London at 18 years old.What makes Harry’s story so interesting is how his time as the point of contact between his band and their lawyer sparked his interest in law. He got a front-row seat to the legal side of the music business, and when he left the band at 22, it just felt right. Law school in Ireland is an undergraduate degree, which is wildly different from the U.S. system, and Harry breaks down how the whole process works, from the Leaving Cert to the three-year program he is now almost done with his first year of.This was a fantastic and genuinely fascinating conversation with someone whose path to law school is unlike anyone else I have had on. One you don’t want to miss!Harry’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harry-o-connellAcross the Pond Under the Law: https://acrossthepondunderthelaw.wordpress.comBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

This episode with Kimberly is one that I think a lot of law students and young attorneys will find themselves in. Kimberly is a triple-graduate of the University of Florida, a diehard Gator, and is currently a partner at an AmLaw 100 firm with 17+ years as a commercial litigator, specializing in work for banks and financial institutions. Kimberly takes us down her journey, from originally wanting to be a journalist at the Orlando Sentinel, to discovering law through a media law class in her junior year of undergrad, to pursuing a joint JD and master’s in mass communications at UF with dreams of becoming a First Amendment attorney, to eventually finding her path in commercial foreclosure and secured transactions litigation an area she never would have imagined herself in but has come to truly love.Beyond her practice, Kimberly is the creator of Latina Legal Minds, a podcast and platform she started during the pandemic as a creative outlet that has since become her passion project. She also founded the Latina Legal Minds Power Summit, a live event creating space for Latina attorneys to have critical conversations about salary negotiations, big law, and navigating the profession. Her message on authenticity, that it isn’t something to figure out later but something to protect from day one, is one that every law student and professional needs to hear.This was an incredible conversation with someone who truly exemplifies what it means to advocate for yourself and build community along the way. Kimberly’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlylopez/Latina Legal MindsBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

This episode with Robert McNeill is truly one of the most unique journeys I have encountered on this podcast to date. Bob is an oral and maxillofacial surgeon at The Dental Specialists, a healthcare regulator in Texas, a strategic advisor for the American Dental Association, and on top of all of that, he is now a 1L at Northeastern University School of Law in their FlexJD program, along with his wife, who is also a surgeon and in the same law school class as him. Yes, you read that correctly.What makes Bob’s story so fascinating is his commitment to being useful. He has a DDS, an MD, an MBA from a healthcare management program, and a public policy fellowship from the Harvard Kennedy School, and he is adding a JD to the mix in his 50s. But as Bob himself says, this isn’t about collecting credentials, it’s about changing the lens through which he sees problems at the intersection of policy, systems, and patient safety. Between studying for his criminal law final, writing his legal writing memo from a cafe in Fez, Morocco, during spring break, and climbing Kilimanjaro right before starting 1L, Bob is the definition of enjoying the journey.This was a fantastic and wide-ranging conversation with a man who keeps pushing the envelope at every stage of life. Bob’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobddsmdBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

Barry is a University of Texas School of Law graduate and currently works as the Owner of Seidel & Associates. He is also the author of Evolutions of Law Practice: How I Opened My Own Practice Right out of Law School. This episode with Barry Seidel is one that I have been looking forward to for a long time. Barry is a University of Texas School of Law graduate who did something that very few people have the guts to do: he opened his own law practice straight out of law school in 1982 and has been running it for 43 years. Barry takes us through his entire journey, from finding a book in law school that laid out a game plan for going solo without missing a meal, to setting up shop in a suite of lawyers in Manhattan and hustling for court appearances, to becoming the “King of Queens” after the New York Law Journal put him on the cover for his genius court appearance service business that landed him 275 new clients from 1,300 targeted letters.What makes Barry’s story so valuable is that he is the definition of evolving with the times. He started with landlord-tenant work, built a side business making court appearances for other attorneys, and has continuously adapted his practice over four decades, all while staying a solo practitioner. His book, Evolutions of a Law Practice: How I Opened My Own Practice Right Out of Law School, captures all of this, and I encourage everyone listening to go check it out.This was a truly fascinating conversation with a man who has seen it all in the legal world and is still going strong.Barry’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nylaw2law/Barry’s Book: Evolutions of a Law Practice: How I Opened My Own Practice Right Out of Law School: https://a.co/d/00axIkRoBarry’s Substack: https://substack.com/@barryseidelBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

Locke Adair is a Faulkner University Thomas Goode Jones School of Law Graduate and currently works as an attorney at The Sanders Firm. This episode with Locke Adair is one of the most inspiring underdog stories I’ve had on this podcast. Locke takes us down his journey, from growing up as a Bible major who scored a 13 on his ACT reading section and never believed in himself academically, to teaching and coaching at a rural school in Arkansas, to his mom paying for him to take the LSAT on a whim, which he barely studied for, all the way to graduating summa cum laude, second in his class at Faulkner University School of Law and landing a federal clerkship that nobody saw coming.And what makes Locke’s story even more powerful is his honesty about the realities of practicing law. He went from making $260,000 at a firm in Dallas, billing 200 hours a month, to moving back home to Arkansas for a slower pace of life, coaching his kids’ sports, and running his own docket at the Sanders firm, all while teaching as a visiting assistant professor at Harding University. A true testament to prioritizing quality of life over the paycheck.This was a fascinating conversation with someone who completely flipped his identity and proved that where you start doesn’t define where you end up!Locke’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lockeadairBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use codeLITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

Matthew is a University of Kentucky College of Law Graduate and currently works as the Chief Commercial Officer at Priori. This episode with Matthew Wheatley was truly one of the favorites I’ve ever had on this podcast. I always tell my guests to keep things as informal as possible, and Matt took that to heart. This was less of an interview and more of a genuine conversation between two guys who just clicked. Matt is a University of Kentucky College of Law graduate who went from making $55K as a lawyer in Kentucky to taking a huge risk and moving to New York City to chase the dream of living in the big city, working as a legal recruiter, and making $60K. From there, he worked his way through the alternative legal services space and is now the Chief Commercial Officer at Priori, a legal tech company that helps lawyers practice on their own terms.What stands out about Matt’s story is his honesty about not having that “blue chip” background and not following the traditional path that so many lawyers feel locked into. He looked where others weren’t looking, committed to the alternative legal services world, and built a career where there was far less competition because nobody else was trying to do what he was doing. His insight that your pedigree stops mattering once you get into the real world and that it’s the small things, like genuinely caring and making the people around you better, is something every law student and professional needs to hear.This was a fantastic, wide-ranging conversation covering everything from bacon, egg, and cheese to Plato’s cave allegory. Matt’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewwheatleyBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use code LITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe

Richard is an Albany Law School Graduate and currently works as a Partner at Phillips Lytle. This episode with Richard Honen hits close to home, literally. Rich is a fellow University at Albany alum, or as he calls it, Albany State, and an Albany Law School graduate who has been practicing law right here in Albany for 40 years. Rich takes us down his journey, from drifting into law school after his roommate convinced him to apply on a Smith Corona typewriter, to helping carry a conference table into the office on his very first day at a brand new firm, to eventually buying that firm, putting his name on the door, and later merging it with Phillips Lytle, where he now leads their startup and venture capital practice.What I love about Rich’s story is the entrepreneurial thread that runs through all of it. He built a firm from two file cabinets of cases into something worth merging with one of the biggest firms in upstate New York, all while questioning whether he could really hang with the Harvard guys. And his advice on not overcomplicating things, drawing from his days as the least talented guy in a seven-person band at UAlbany, is something I think everyone can take to heart.This was an incredible conversation with someone who has seen it all in Albany’s legal world and is still going strong. Rich’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-honenBe sure to check out the Official Sponsors for the Lawyers in the Making Podcast:Rhetoric - Empowers your teaching and training with AI that strengthens learning, protects integrity, and proves authentic understanding, for students and professionals alike, with CICERO. Find them here: userhetoric.comThe Law School Operating System™ Recorded Course - This course is for ambitious law students who want a proven, simple system to learn every topic in their classes to excel in class and on exams. Go to www.lisablasser.com, check out the student tab with course offerings, and use code LSOSNATE10 at checkout for 10% off Lisa’s recorded course!Start LSAT - Founded by former guest and 22-year-old superstar, Alden Spratt, Start LSAT was built upon breaking down barriers, allowing anyone access to high-quality LSAT Prep. For $110, you get the Start LSAT self-paced course, and using code LITM10, you get 10% off the self-paced course! Check out Alden and Start LSAT at startlsat.com and use code LITM10 for 10% off the self-paced course!Lawyers in the Making Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Lawyers in the Making Podcast at lawyersinthemaking.substack.com/subscribe