In Control with Natasha Vernier

In this episode I spoke to Nicky Goulimis, co-founder and CEO of TunicPay, about why she started a second company, what TunicPay is building, and how they’ve managed to land some of the UK’s biggest banks as customers in under three years.Here’s what we covered:•       What it’s really like to start a second company•       The difference between fraud and scams •       Why all of the fraud defences banks have built over 20 years don’t work for scams•       How TunicPay’s payment context protocol works•       Who should bear liability for scams •       How TunicPay landed major UK banks as their first customers, and how they navigated those organisations•       How they’re thinking about entering the US market, where the bank liability model is completely different•       Why Nicky thinks FinTech has been unambitious about scams, and what she’d like to seeIf you work in financial services, fraud, or payments - or if you’ve ever been close to being scammed - you should listen to this episode.Timestamps:00:00 Nicky's Entrepreneurial Journey13:05 Solving scams20:18 Understanding Liability in Fraud Prevention25:15 Stopping scams in real time32:06 Navigating Partnerships with Major Banks38:12 Expanding into the U.S. Market This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

In this episode I spoke to Colton Pond, CMO at Socure, about how to build B2B marketing that actually drives revenue. Colton has spent 10 years leading marketing at FinTech companies including MX, Truv, Loan Pro, and Socure, and he has very strong opinions.Here’s what we covered:- What founders get wrong about marketing, and why most marketers are too fluffy to become founders- How to think about marketing at seed stage — focus, low-noise channels, and guerrilla tactics- When to hire a marketing lead and what to look for- Why MQLs are a swear word, and what metrics actually matter- How marketing strategy changes at Series A/B vs Series C/D- When to launch your own conference — and when not to- How AI is changing content marketing, and how to use it without producing slop- People and purpose over profit — and the mentor who taught him thatIf you’re building a B2B startup, or leading marketing at one, you should listen to this episode.Timestamps:00:00 The Journey of Colton Pond10:54 Marketing Strategies for Startups24:03 Scaling Marketing Efforts in Series A and B28:29 Rethinking Marketing Metrics37:49 The Importance of Community and Conferences43:18 Hiring Strategies for Growth Stages46:09 AI's Transformative Role in Marketing51:05 The Mindset of Successful Marketers This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

Stablecoins keep coming up. In news, in fintech conversations, in the context of regulation. And while I keep nodding along, I can’t really see beyond the use case of international transactions.  Why else would anyone use them? And is there a consumer use-case? So I asked Peter Glyman, who has spent years working at the intersection of payments, blockchain, and financial services, to help me understand it all.Here’s what we covered:What stablecoins are, how they differ from cryptocurrencies, and how the blockchain works as the underlying ledgerHow pegging to the US dollar works in practice, and what the Genius Act requires of stablecoin issuersThe strongest real-world use cases: cross-border payments, merchant payments, and programmable smart contractsWhat tokenized deposits are, and why banks might prefer them to stablecoinsThe decentralisation question - what it actually means (and doesn't) when companies like Circle and Coinbase are centralised entitiesWhether traditional banks will adapt to stablecoin technology or get disrupted by new blockchain-first playersIf you work in financial services, payments, or fintech, you should probably listen to this episode.Timestamps:00:00 What is a stablecoin?03:24 Blockchains, distributed ledgers, and different blockchain architectures08:49 How Circle became a stablecoin provider11:35 The Genius Act and what it requires18:30 How pegging to the dollar actually works19:16 The 2023 USDC de-peg and what actually happened21:06 Real-world use cases: payments, remittances, and programmability24:14 Tokenized deposits — and why banks may prefer them27:11 Decentralisation: what it actually means (and doesn’t)33:15 Opportunities still to be built37:13 Will banks be disrupted or will they adapt? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

Listen on Apple Podcasts or SpotifyEveryone already seems to know everything about AI and LLMs. I think I missed the part where the basic questions were asked and answered, and given AI will almost certainly be a core part of all our lives, that felt like a gap worth closing.Luckily, my good friend Dimitri Masin, CEO and Co-founder of Gradient Labs (which builds customer operation agents for financial services), knows all about it, and was willing to answer my “stupid” questions. So, I finally understand why the frontier LLMs cost so much to build, how the training actually happens, and how to build actually useful agents with them.00:00 Understanding the basics of AI10:29 Model context windows13:33 Open sourced LLMs18:26 Automating customer support with agents26:43 Why brand matters more than ever, and how to measure AI performance32:23 Agents for back office operations36:38 Gradient Lab's Co founders This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

In this episode I spoke to Kareem Saleh, the CEO of Fairplay, about how banks can use AI safely. Fairplay is a technology that tests, tunes and validates models for banks, and so he was the perfect person to ask about the risks - and mitigators - of generative AI within financial services. Here’s what we talked about:- How banks have always used machine learning models, and what is different with generative AI- The risks that gen AI and agents bring to banks- Practical tips on how to mitigate those risks- How banks can evidence to the regulators that they are using AI safely- Why banks may end up having to have 2 systems - their AI native system, and a secondary non-AI system as a failsafe- What keeps Kareem up at nightIf you work in a bank or fintech, you should listen to this episode.00:00 Introduction to AI in Banking02:44 The Old World of Machine Learning in Banks09:44 Risks Associated with Generative AI16:32 Potential Consumer Harms and Institutional Risks19:32 Managing AI Risks in Banking25:28 Guarding Against Hallucinations and Runaway Behaviors in AI31:35 Regulatory Compliance and Risk Appetite34:46 Future of AI in Banking  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

On this episode I spoke to Mark Roberge, one of the founders of Stage 2 Capital. He has a new book out, The Science of Scaling, which is a practical guide about how, and when, to scale revenue. It is hands down the most quantitative and useful book for early stage VC-backed businesses that I have read. This episode is absolutely jam packed with great insights, such as:- How to ACTUALLY measure product market fit. It’s the most important, and least well defined, term in startups… until now. Turns out, it’s all about retention, and we get deep into how to actually measure it- What Board Decks and Meetings should look like for pre-seed and seed stage companies- What selling to banks (and other companies) with long sales cycles means for raising money from VCs- Why serial entrepreneurs are usually the ones that chase capital-intensive new businesses (like SpaceX)- How to optimize pricing and contract term length at the earliest stages of a startups life- How AI is changing sales- Whether market timing actually matters- What, other than scaling too early or too late, can kill a startupIf you are building an early stage startup I really encourage you to listen to the whole thing.Chapter list:00:00 Introduction to Scaling and Revenue Generation02:33 Early Stage Board Meetings08:40 Leading Indicators of Retention with Long Bank Sales Cycles17:28 What Bank Sales Cycles Mean for Raising VC Money21:47 VC Discipline and Investment Strategies During Bubbles26:49 How to Optimize Pricing and Term Length at the Early Stages31:41 Does Timing Matter for Startups?36:24 The Other Sciences of Scaling37:35 The Impact of AI on Scaling Revenue48:49 Societal Impacts of AI This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

Today’s conversation is with Peter Hazlehurst, the CEO and co founder of Synctera, the company that just acquired my company, Cable. Peter has a fascinating story, having grown up in Australia and teaching himself to code as part of his “gap year” job working for the government, before traveling to Silicon Valley and landing a job building a core banking system. Many tech jobs later, including stints at Google and Uber, he is now building Synctera, which could in many ways could also be described as a core banking system. One of the themes of our conversation were the lessons that we can teach our children, and we covered:- How an interaction with the conductor of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra when he was 14 years old gave Peter a life philosophy that has stuck with him since- How being lazy can unlock near-endless opportunities- Peter’s core belief that if you build something, you have a responsibility to make sure that, as far as possible, people can’t do bad stuff with it- How the secret to making B2B businesses successful is the relationships built over many years- Lessons on managing teams learnt from Google- The similarities of the dot come bubble and today’s AI hype cycle- How startup life influences parenting stylesListen along to hear more from Peter, and for a chance to reflect on your own early life lessons. I hope you enjoy the conversation! 00:00 Introduction and Acquisition Announcement00:31 Peter's Childhood and the Influence of Music on his Life11:30 First Job and Teaching Himself to Code18:06 Moving to the US and Jumping on the Startup Train21:29 How Startup Life Influences Parenting24:43 Leadership Lessons from Google26:33 The Through-line of Payments, the Origins of Synctera and the Importance of Building Relationships38:10 Acquiring Cable This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

In this episode I sat down with Renata Caine, who leads Embedded Finance for Green Dot. How does Starbucks offer it's reward card? How does Amazon provide a credit card? All these "embedded finance" programs have banks behind them who help the brands onboard customers, provide oversight, and act as the buffer between the brands and the regulators. I went into this conversation thinking that standing up an embedded finance program was mostly about choosing 1 great partner and making sensible decisions around compliance. Now I know how wrong I was! A bank getting into BaaS is a bit like a contractor building a house. They may do everything - the plumbing, the electrics, the painting - or they may outsource all those things to others. Deciding what skills you have as a bank, and therefore what you can offer, what you can build internally, and what you need to contract, is step 1. We got into detail about the pros and cons of For the Benefit Of (FBO) v Ultimate Beneficial Owner (UBO) account types. An FBO account is a single pooled account at the bank on behalf of a brand or a fintech, whilst a UBO structure means every end consumer (or business) is an actual customer of the bank. There are distinct pros and cons to both set ups, and again, the bank should work out where its skills lie to decide which route to take. Making money is harder than it seems! You might make revenue from interchange, interest and/or program management fees, but the size of those buckets varies hugely depending on the type of brand or fintech you work with. Diversification is the key, and scale is needed to make any meaningful revenue. This isn’t an area you can “try out”. You either go hard, or go home. For so many more great insights, listen in here.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

Sanctions started in ancient Greece and now touch every bank and fintech on the planet, but most people in finance have never really examined how they work. In this episode, I talked to Peter Piatetsky, former US Army intelligence analyst, former Treasury Department official, and now CEO of Castellum AI, about the history of sanctions, how they've evolved from a careful diplomatic tool into something governments reach for freely, and what that means for banks. We covered the Turkish pastor case that changed how policymakers think about sanctions, how Peter personally figured out how to sanction aircraft at the Treasury, the existence of the UN Credit Union (one of the highest-risk financial institutions in the world), how people actually evade sanctions, and why the explosion of fintechs may be creating more sanctions risk than the sanctions themselves.If you work in finance, you can't afford to miss this one.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com

Spade has raised a $40m Series B, and I was lucky enough to sit down with Oban MacTavish, CEO and co-founder, to learn about how Spade makes merchant data usable, and to hear all about their fundraise. The data your bank gets when you swipe your card is shockingly bad - a jumbled descriptor of ~50 characters, a merchant category code that might be wrong, and a "city" field that's sometimes just a phone number. In this episode I learn about why payments data hasn't meaningfully changed in 30 years, how Spade built a body of merchant data covering 99.9% of payment-accepting businesses in the US and Canada, and what banks can actually do once their merchant data is good. We also discuss Spade's freshly announced $40M Series B led by Oak HC/FT with participation from Andreessen Horowitz, what nearly 500% YoY growth breaks inside a company, and why Oban is saying no to obvious opportunities to stay focused. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit natashavernier.substack.com