Why I Left Google to Prototype a Different Life | Jonah Goldsaito

Jean-Baptiste Kaloya, VP of Design at Bpifrance, joins Guidione Machava.Founders: When hiring designers, look for the judgment behind their work, how they understand your business, and how they decide what should be built.Jean-Baptiste Kaloya, VP of Design at Bpifrance, joins Guidione Machava to discuss what it takes to build and lead a design team as AI changes how products are made.We discuss:• Why becoming a designer takes sustained practice, beyond a short bootcamp• Leading a team of more than 40 designers and making ideas tangible• Learning a complex industry and simplifying the business behind the interface• Aligning stakeholders across product, technology, legal and compliance• Why faster execution with AI calls for stronger accountability• Combining business understanding with taste and craft• Why problem framing, iteration and saying no still take time• European and US design cultures, and design’s place in leadership• Generative interfaces and designing systems when the next screen is not predictableChapters00:00 Meet Jean-Baptiste Kaloya02:00 From France to San Francisco04:00 Founding Hype and working with startups06:00 Moving from designer to design leader10:00 Organizing the Bpifrance design team13:00 Making complex financial products clear15:00 Learning an unfamiliar industry20:00 Onboarding designers into complex businesses22:00 Simplifying the business behind the experience24:00 Mapping stakeholders and aligning decisions27:00 Bpifrance and building with AI29:00 Does AI mean fewer designers?31:00 Bootcamps, business understanding and craft35:00 Building is cheaper; problem framing takes time37:00 Why so much of design is saying no38:00 Europe versus San Francisco43:00 The false divide between UX and UI45:00 Generative interfaces and the future of design48:00 Where to find Jean-BaptisteGuest: Jean-Baptiste KaloyaWebsite: https://jbkaloya.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jbkaloya/Host: Guidione Machava, founder of World Class Design.More from World Class Design: https://world-class.designSubscribe for more conversations about hiring, evaluating and leading designers.

Katja Forbes has spent 30 years in digital and design. She built, scaled and sold her own design consultancy, led design inside corporate, and now calls herself "a recovering design leader". She is the author of Machine Customers: The Evolution Has Begun, and she flew from Australia to Paris for this conversation.Her argument: the next customer your product serves may not be a person. It might be a shopping agent, a procurement platform, a factory ordering its own parts, or a port that runs itself. And almost nothing we design today is built for it.In this episode:→ What a machine customer is, explained without jargon (after a couple of attempts)→ Walking the whole customer journey when the customer is an AI agent: awareness, consideration, transaction, onboarding, servicing, off-boarding→ "Readable to an AI agent, otherwise it's invisible"→ AI negotiators already closing supplier contracts, and why B2B is moving faster than B2C→ Why the Global South may leapfrog everyone, from M-Pesa to government agents→ User research when the user is a model: she wants to interview your AI agent→ "Fixed customer journeys, worthless." Generative UI and going headless→ What founders should do in the next 12 months: get hands-on→ Why telling designers their craft is obsolete is hurtful, and the kinder way to say itChapters00:00 Trailer00:30 Australia to Paris, and a "recovering design leader"02:30 Why design leadership is heavier now06:30 "What happens if the thing becomes the customer?"10:00 Designing experiences for non-humans13:30 What is a machine customer? A port with no humans17:00 Tyler the shopping agent, and stablecoins in plain English22:30 The machine customer journey, end to end33:00 The book34:30 AI that negotiates: Walmart, Maersk, procurement38:30 Governments, M-Pesa and leapfrog markets43:00 User research when the user is a model45:00 "Fixed customer journeys, worthless"47:00 Going headless: good news for older users?49:00 What founders should do in the next 12 months52:30 The one thing she's certain of55:00 "Your talk made me decide to retire"57:00 Where to find herGuest: Katja Forbes — The CX Evolutionist. Author, Machine Customers: The Evolution Has Begun.thecxevolutionist.aiLinkedIn: Katja ForbesSubstack: Field Notes from the Agentic EconomyHost: Guidione Machava, founder of World Class Design.world-class.design

Maxime Frere is Partner and Principal Designer at Source Paris and leads a design team at Bpifrance. He has changed companies seven times, run a team of 25 as Head of Design at BPCE, worked at frog and Capgemini, and gone back to craft on purpose.In this episode he says the things most hiring managers only say in private:→ Why "taste" is the wrong word, and the 80/20 rule he uses instead→ Why he forced his whole team to go full AI, and what he now refuses to let them use it for→ Why designers who don't understand code are "trapped inside the tool"→ The one thing he looks at before hiring anyone (it's not the portfolio)→ Why "a lot of designers are lazy", and what he means by it→ The Capgemini feedback culture that made him ("it's not a line")→ The advice he'd give his younger self: take the risk, follow the manager, not the company nameWhat you'll steal: the 80/20 rule for every design decision, the "know when to stop AI" workflow, the schema habit that gets executives to say "I see what you mean", and the reason to build something this month even if the only user is your grandmother.Chapters00:00 Trailer01:10 Seven companies, one rule03:30 Kindness is not enough. Discipline.05:30 From IC to Head of Design: what actually gets you picked10:30 The schema trick: make people see, not imagine15:30 Follow the manager, not the company18:00 "We forced everyone to go full AI"19:00 Taste is the wrong word. The 80/20 rule.22:30 Prototypes between two user tests. And the slop risk.26:30 Trapped in the tool: why designers must understand code30:00 "A lot of designers are lazy"32:00 "It's not a line": the feedback that made him33:30 Don't design to make everyone happy35:00 Read the job description (Guidione's 80%)37:30 How they judge your AI use when hiring39:30 Know how to stop AI. Grab a pen.41:30 Advice to his younger self: take the risk48:30 "The chance is not for the shy"Guest: Maxime Frère — Partner & Principal Designer, Source Paris. Design lead, Bpifrance.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximefrere/Host: Guidione Machava, founder of World Class Design.world-class.design

AI as Designer? Regine Gilbert on Inclusive Design, Bias, and Ethical UX in a Faster WorkflowIn the first episode of the World Class Design podcast, host Guidione Machava interviews NYU professor and author Regine Gilbert about how generative AI is changing design work, why speed-focused workflows can sacrifice user experience, and how AI outputs embed bias and accessibility gaps. Gilbert explains that designers shouldn’t assume AI is correct, citing ChatGPT generating a white image for Black inventor Garrett Morgan, and urges designers to do research, write clearer prompts, and check work with others. They discuss deceptive patterns, the tension between ethical design and business pressure, and practical tactics like quick pre-mortems to identify risks early. Gilbert reframes accessibility and inclusivity as reducing friction, highlights the financial and regulatory stakes, and argues designers’ lived experience, empathy, and judgment cannot be replaced by AI.00:00 WCD Podcast with Regine01:23 Introduction01:57 Meet Regine Gilbert05:29 Design Ethics & AI Decision-Making08:38 Bias in AI & Inclusive Design33:18 The Designer’s Role in an AI World38:27 Hot Take & TakeawaysMore from World Class Design: https://world-class.designWatch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zORa7kG8Ls

A project that improves everyone’s work can also change the direction of your career. For Hannah Dreher, building a modular email design system was part of the journey from graphic design into product management.Hannah shares how she developed digital skills, earned the trust of developers and learned from mentors who helped her move into a new role. We also explore why listening, relationships and openness to feedback matter as much as the work itself.In this conversation:Building skills through real projectsFinding advocates and learning from mentorsKeeping customer needs at the center of design

Some of the most important things we design never appear on a screen. Juliana Proserpio explores the systems, services, strategies and business models that shape how people live and work.Drawing on her experience building Echos and moving between Brazil and Australia, Juliana discusses how different cultures challenge a designer’s assumptions. It’s a conversation about connecting ideas, looking beyond familiar environments and understanding what design contributes beyond the software used to produce it.In this conversation:Designing services and systemsLearning from unfamiliar culturesSeparating design judgment from software skills

Whose knowledge gets treated as universal in design education? Sarah El Khamsa reflects on studying European design traditions while seeing a different creative heritage around her in Tunisia.We discuss what designers miss when they overlook local craft, culture and lived experience. Sarah shares an approach grounded in understanding context, learning with communities and recognizing the knowledge other people bring. She also describes introducing children to design as a way of thinking.In this conversation:Questioning inherited design assumptionsLearning through cultural immersionMaking room for collective intelligenceDesign research: http://metabolisme.design/

A design can look good and still miss the point. Renato Paixão explains why designers need to understand how their work helps users achieve their goals and contributes to the business.We discuss finding the problem beneath the symptoms, resisting the urge to jump straight into solutions and connecting creative decisions to meaningful results. Renato also reflects on rejection, persistence and the opportunities that can change the direction of a design career.In this conversation:Finding the root problemConnecting user needs with business goalsContinuing through rejection

What happens when the career you’ve built no longer fits the life you want? Jonah Goldsaito shares why he left Google and began experimenting with different ways of living with his family.Our conversation follows the varied projects and skills that shaped his path as a design generalist. We also discuss making presentations people can connect with, collaborating across disciplines and bringing more intention to the experiences we create, both in products and in our own lives.In this conversation:Prototyping a different lifeBuilding a career across disciplinesTelling stories that help ideas move forward

Understanding users is only part of the job. Your research also needs people inside the organization who understand it, care about it and can act on it.Patricia Machado shares how she approaches the relationships behind effective user research. We discuss engaging stakeholders, speaking up before you feel completely comfortable and taking the initiative to connect with customers. Patricia also reflects on the value of a background that doesn’t follow a conventional design path.In this conversation:Bringing teams into the research processTaking the risk of sharing an ideaUsing your different experiences as a strength