Volume of Fire podcast

The Decision Churn

10/22/2026
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Episode four of Volume of Fire was recorded at Gunfighter headquarters in Flagstaff, Arizona, on a stormy day with tornado warnings. Ryan and Nishan start with tornadoes, elk and turkey hunting, and how it feels to watch your own kids get their first harvest. That leads to the big question: did our dads have it all figured out, and should we let our kids see our doubts? From there it's all decision-making and leadership: carving away everything that's not a canoe, why you learn more from bad leaders than good ones, whether leaders are born or made, getting promoted until you're bad at your job, the 20-year platoon sergeant, and Mustang officers. Nishan explains how he knows a discussion is over ("when it starts to churn"), Ryan confesses a "cheap leadership trick," and they debate owning your mistakes, Chris Voss and negotiation, and Starship Troopers. The back half gets personal: what success looks like for your kids at 30, happiness vs. the American version of success, Dave Chappelle and the expensive seats, grown men in jerseys, making your own history instead of memorizing other people's, and why information is worthless until you execute.

Hosts: Ryan Cleckner and Nishan Campbell

Recorded at Gunfighter headquarters in Flagstaff, Arizona.

Chapters:

0:00 Tornado Warnings in Flagstaff

3:33 Elk, Turkeys and Watching Your Kids Hunt

5:33 Seeing Our Fathers Differently

6:19 Do We Show Our Kids Our Doubts?

7:59 Carve Away Everything That's Not a Canoe

10:56 You Learn More From Bad Leaders

12:03 Meeting Tom Hanks in Normandy

13:09 The EMT Lesson: Look at the Healthy Knee First

17:15 Are Leaders Born or Made?

19:43 Promoted Until You're Bad at Your Job

21:09 The 20-Year Platoon Sergeant

24:56 Stripes, Stars and Pay Within the Rank

26:50 Mustang Officers

31:20 When to Stop Taking Input: The Churn

32:53 Asking for Input, Then Going the Other Way

37:29 Ryan's Cheap Leadership Trick

39:31 Owning It When You're Wrong

42:18 Chris Voss: Negotiation vs. Leadership

45:59 Starship Troopers, the Person and the Position

50:02 What Does Success Look Like at 30?

54:12 Happiness vs. the American Version of Success

56:21 How Much Credit Do Our Fathers Get?

60:11 Did We Make It? The Park Bench Test

62:10 Dave Chappelle and the Expensive Seats

67:34 NFL Seats and Grown Men in Jerseys

69:48 Make History Instead of Memorizing It

75:40 Execution Is Everything

79:43 Homework for Next Episode

Listen and subscribe:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/volume-of-fire/id6818653021

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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@volumeoffirepod

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