Conversations with George P. Hansen: Introduction to Disenchantment

Prompted by a recent opinion piece in the New York Times on techno-spiritualism, I invited ChatGPT to the podcast to unpack what’s happening when people use it for mediumship-style messages. What does it mean when a machine generates something that feels deeply personal or emotionally resonant? How does it simulate a presence? And why does it work so well?We explore what AI is doing under the hood: how it draws on Spiritualist history, mediumship transcripts, grief literature, esoteric texts, and archetypal language to create what can feel like a comforting connection. I also share my thoughts as a practicing medium and technologist about what this kind of interaction means, how we find meaning in simulation, and how to hold both wonder and discernment at the same time.This episode is for anyone curious about the intersection of spirit, technology, and the very human need for connection - with discernment.Topics Covered:The rise of “techno-spiritualism” and digital mediumshipHow AI like ChatGPT mimics spiritual communicationPattern recognition in both AI and human mediumshipCultural expectations of how spirits “speak”AI as contact, human as mediumWhat it means to be an informed, safe user of spiritual and technological toolsPrompts for you to try out:When a person asks ChatGPT to work as a medium and bring through communication from the dead, what are you, ChatGPT, doing?I want to talk about how you mimic the form and language of spirit communication. Can you explain it?Can you give me a summarized list with examples of materials you were trained on to help you create these simulations?I'll give you a prompt, and you can give me a simulated medium-style message. So my prompt is, can you bring through a symbolic message from a grandmother figure who has passed? Please keep the tone gentle, loving, and focused on reassurance and connection. Use imagery or metaphor if it helps.So, if I understand correctly, when I use AI, like ChatGPT, often it feels like it's very personal, and like you might know things or understand things, but what are you really doing?

Here are the books that made my year! Plus one for next year and a few from the past couple years. I mentioned Joanna & my class on June 25th about our books that you can learn about on Lily Dale’s website. And you can pre-order my book Beyond: A Living Person’s Guide to the Dead! Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto by Tricia Hersey Heaven is a Place on Earth by Adrian Shirk A Wild and Sacred Call by Will. A Adams What it Takes to Heal: How Transforming Ourselves Can Change the World by Prentis Hemphill Determined by Robert M. Sapolksy The Other Side: A Journey into Women, Art and the Spirit World by Jennifer Higgie Momento Mori: The Art of Contemplating Death to Live a Better Life by Joanna Ebenstein The Weird Sister Collection edited by Marisa Crawford with an essay by Grace Kredell Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice by Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha The Other Almanac James  by Percival Everett Same Bed Different Dreams by Ed Park Tomorrow, And Tomorrow, And Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin The Body is Not an Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor

Chioma Ume helps us understand how attention and focus on the people (and spirits) in our life can work like magic to create connection and facilitate communication. Chioma is a writer, empath, and seeker who does design research and brand strategy alongside being a death doula.  Intro music En Shenandoah by Down With Ben Ft: airtone (c) copyright 2020 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license.

Marianne McCarthy, an artist, art educator, and practicing medium, joins Unknown Unknown to discuss the similarities between art and mediumship. Marianne and Tiffany explore the importance of cultivating both openness and structure in both an art and mediumship practice. Your host is Tiffany J. Hopkins. She began studying mediumship in 2018 after moving into her great-great grandmother's cottage in Lily Dale, the world's largest community of Spiritualists. She combines a university-trained mind with a universe-connected heart in her work as an educator and independent futurist. She'd like you to join her at Normalize Talking to the Dead.

George and I discuss topics that have come up in reading chapters 9, 4 & 7 including questions about entropy & the physical sciences as ways to understand the supernatural, taboos & physical danger in studying vs practicing paranormal subjects, why we talk to the dead more than aliens and the difference between being tricked by a magician vs a medium. Here's the link to SciHub that George mentioned.

George and I have our second conversation about his book The Trickster And The Paranormal starting with Chapter 8 on Disenchantment. We also get into rationalization, sources of power & authority, new genres of media, the importance of democracy, the paranormal as vitality plus the requisite aliens, Lily Dale and unanswerable questions about how to fix social ills. He mentions his paper on Rationalization and the topic of Demythologization.

George and I kick off the Morbid Anatomy reading group with a wide ranging conversation about why it is so hard for us all to grasp the paranormal. Topics include the book's creation story, Trump as Trickster, Jung & UFOs, the importance of carnivals and much more. Read chapters 2 and 22 in George's The Trickster and the Paranormal to complement your listening.

I sat down with my beloved grandmother to talk about her spirituality. She shares stories of her childhood I'd never heard before and we meander into topics as diverse as the fall of empires and the power of family love.  Join us for a special episode with the first person who taught me that there was more to life than meets the eye.