What Next: TBD | Why Wall Street Can’t Quit Elon

Elon Musk’s polarizing persona and antics have created a toxic cloud around his companies, particularly Tesla. But despite that, Wall Street can’t seem to quit him. Why?  Guest: Felix Salmon, host of Slate Money and chief financial correspondent for Axios. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: Trump unveiled his extensive list of tariffs. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers discuss the questionable math that went into calculating these hefty tariffs and the stock market’s extremely negative reaction to the announcement. Then, Trump has picked a fight with the country's biggest law firms, threatening the integrity of the US legal system. Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern joins to break down the situation. And finally, the US dollar is down after Trump’s tariff announcement which was a big surprise. (Listen to our episode with Paul Krugman to understand why.) The hosts examine the factors that led to its weakening.  In the Slate Plus episode: Broadway plays have gone Hollywood.  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The US government’s use of a prison in El Salvador as an extra-judicial due-process free black site has been rendered starkly visible by the story of one man they tried to disappear. On this week’s Amicus,  Dahlia Lithwick interviews Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, lawyer for Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident, husband and father, who was illegally deported to El Salvador in March due to what the government admits was an administrative error. Abrego Garcia was abruptly detained by ICE, torn from his family, and sent to a brutal Salvadoran prison despite having legal protections against deportation. The Justice Department  now says Abrego Garcia must remain in  the notorious CECOT prison in El Salvador. On Friday a district court judge in Maryland ordered his return.  Next, we turn to the Trump administration's disastrous tariffs. Slate's Mark Joseph Stern joins Dahlia to  explore the legality of Trump’s latest, inexplicable round of tariffs against the rest of the world, and debate whether the Supreme Court will apply its so-called “major questions doctrine” when a Republican is in the White House.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Money Talks: Amidst the Trump administration’s continued attacks on the press, David Enrich’s new book, Murder the Truth: Fear, the First Amendment, and a Secret Campaign to Protect the Powerful, feels incredibly timely. He joins Elizabeth Spiers to discuss his reporting on increasing efforts to exploit the legal system to protect the rich and powerful from being held accountable, creating an incredibly fraught landscape for journalists and news outlets. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ketamine has gone from a recreational psychedelic to an approved treatment, and it has caught on in Silicon Valley in a big way. Are the long-term effects of using ketamine—recreationally or therapeutically—sufficiently known? Are we witnessing them right now? Guest: Shayla Love, staff writer for the Atlantic. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: A leaked Signal message revealed illegal use of the commercial app by the Defense Department. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers explain how this is a common issue in finance, where employees often defy SEC regulations on secure communication in favor of more convenient ways of communicating. Then, a recent study shows that people are leaving states with anti-abortion laws and other evidence suggests political migration in the US is on the rise. Finally, Dollar Tree is selling Family Dollar to private equity for $1 billion, 10 years after buying it for $8 billion. The hosts discuss what might have led to the end of the disastrous merger.  In the Slate Plus episode: Felix joins What Next host Mary Harris to talk about the godfather of crypto, Satoshi Nakamoto.  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Memecoins are a niche type of cryptocurrency with no intrinsic value. But they remain a popular form of crypto, as seen earlier this year with President Trump’s own memecoin. And if it worked for him, then why not our little podcast?  Guests:  Azeem Khan, advisor to UNICEF’s crypto fund and cocreator of the blockchain Morph. Nitish Pahwa, Slate staff writer covering business and tech. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During his first term, President Trump and Jeff Bezos openly sparred with each other. During this second administration, though, it seems like Bezos is trying to endear himself - and his companies - to the White House. So what changed? Guest: Dana Mattioli, reporter for the Wall Street Journal and the author of The Everything War: Amazon’s Ruthless Quest to Own the World and Remake Corporate Power. Special thanks to David Maraniss. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: DOGE is taking its chainsaw to the Social Security Administration. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers examine the real reasons behind the Elon Musk led crusade against the SSA. And then, DOGE used extreme tactics against the US Institute of Peace including a physical takeover of the building by force. Meanwhile, the founder of Pirate’s Booty tried a similar tactic to try to gain power over his small Long Island town. The hosts discuss how these stories and recent actions by Trump call into question what authority really means when it comes to our government. And finally, Dan Primak of Axios joins to explain how a private equity firm just made the Boston Celtics the highest valued team (in dollars) in US sports history. In the Slate Plus episode: Why are US winemakers upset about a potential wine tariff?  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The National Institutes of Health is the primary engine of biomedical research around the world, which makes the Trump administration's dramatic cuts to its grant program both confusing and potentially incredibly harmful. Guest: Katherine J. Wu, staff writer for the Atlantic. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices