Rupert Sheldrake on bridging science and spirituality

Following their session together at this year’s Oxford Real Farming Conference – Land, Food and Spirit – SFT CEO, Patrick Holden, and renowned biologist and author, Rupert Sheldrake, reconnected to record an episode of the SFT Podcast. Rupert’s impressive career started at Cambridge University where he studied Natural Sciences, before receiving a scholarship to attend Harvard University, studying History and Philosophy of Science. Rupert later returned to Cambridge where he gained a PhD in Plant Development. This eventually led him to India, where he worked at The International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics (ICRISAT), to develop a more holistic approach to biology and science: “the mechanistic, materialist paradigm was too limiting and constricting” resulting in the idea of ‘morphic resonance’. Rupert has also authored more than 100 technical papers and nine books, including Science and Spiritual Practices. This episode takes a slightly different turn from our usual episodes, with less focus on agriculture, and more on the role of spirituality in science. During this episode, Patrick and Rupert discuss bridging the gap between spirituality and science, they ask whether farms could be considered ‘holy places’, Rupert explains his theory of morphic resonance and talks about his involvement with the British Pilgrimage Trust. To find our more about Rupert and his work, visit https://www.sheldrake.org, and follow him on Instagram and YouTube. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and Bluesky. This conversation was recorded in April 2025.     Timestamps: 0.00: Intro 0.55: Welcome Rupert! 1.11: Patrick and Rupert at the Oxford Real Farming Conference (ORFC) 2025 2.20: Rupert’s career beginnings 3.59: What is ‘morphic resonance’? 4.53: Is there a connection between morphic resonance and epigenetics? 6.43: Building a bridge between science and spirituality  8.58: The influences of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Rudolf Steiner 11.20: Rupert’s spiritual journey 17.00: What is a ‘holy place’? 21.59: Choral Evensong and its place at conferences like ORFC 27.56: Rupert’s involvement with the British Pilgrimage Trust 32.25: Could farms be considered ‘holy places’? 34.10: Rogation Sunday and patronal festivals 40.21: What’s drawing people back – regardless of religion – to holy places and patronal festivals? 43.07: Revaluing the parish and local community 48.36: Saying grace at mealtimes  53.30: Thank you Richard 54.21: Outro  

This month we bring you a special edition of the podcast, recorded at London Climate Action Week as part of Extreme Hangout’s live podcast series. Our CEO Patrick Holden is joined by Dr Federica Amati, Head Nutritionist at ZOE, with a special guest appearance from Professor Tim Spector, Founder of ZOE, for the first half of the episode. Dr. Federica Amati’s career boasts a plethora of academic achievements – alongside her position as Head Nutritionist at ZOE (the science and nutrition research company), Dr Federica also holds a PhD in Clinical Medicine Research, a masters in Public Health and is an Association for Nutrition (AfN) Registered Nutritionist.  She has also authored Recipes for a Better Menopause and the Sunday Times Bestseller, Every Body Should Know This. Her approach focuses on improving overall dietary quality throughout the life course, using food as the best tool to transform health. During their conversation together, Patrick and Dr Federica talk about the importance of reconnecting people with how their food is grown, the current culture of litigation and fear of the wrong kinds of bacteria in our foods and how environmental health and nutrition are intrinsically linked. The final 20 minutes of this episode features a Q&A segment from the audience. This episode was recorded and produced by Extreme Hangout. To find out more about Dr Federica, follow her on Instagram and LinkedIn.  To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and Bluesky. This conversation was recorded in June 2025.

For this episode of the SFT podcast, Max Jones – transhumance guide and traditional foods archivist – visits our CEO, Patrick Holden, on Patrick’s farm in Wales.  Alongside his work as a transhumance guide – the practice of moving livestock from one grazing ground to another in accordance with the seasons – Max Jones is also a writer, photographer, educator and founder of Up There The Last, a project which aims to reconnect people with their food and educate them about the traditional food practices of the past, which still exist in some parts of the world today. From rare cheese production in the heights of the Alps, to traditional wild salmon smoking in the republic of Ireland, Max Jones’ journey to seek out and learn more about traditional food practices has taken him all over the world and led him to meet the people working hard to preserve these essential practices that are at risk of being left behind and forgotten. In this episode, Max and Patrick talk about the threat to traditional foods including modern technology and health and safety regulations, as well as the presence of an off-the-record 'food counterculture' that exists to protect ancient practices. To find out more about Max, follow him on Instagram, and visit the Up There The Last website and Substack page. You can also read the article that Max wrote for the SFT about the importance of preserving traditional food practices, here: https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/preserving-the-practices-of-traditional-foods/. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and Bluesky. This conversation was recorded in August 2024.

To coincide with the release of our new report, Grazing Livestock: It's not the cow but the how, the latest guest on the SFT Podcast this month is Nic Renison. Nic is a regenerative farmer based in Cumbria where she farms alongside her husband, Paul (Reno), at Cannerheugh Farm. The daughter of dairy farmers, Nic grew up within the conventional, high production agricultural environment, growing food with little thought of the environment. This all changed in 2012 when Nic and Reno had a 'light bulb' moment after visiting an organic farm in Northumberland, which inspired them to start employing more regenerative farming methods. In 2018, alongside Liz Genever, Nic co-founded Carbon Calling – a conference created for farmers, by farmers, to share ideas and exchange knowledge on all things farming and regenerative agriculture. During the episode Nic and Patrick discuss Nic's early farming influences, her and her husband's journey from conventional to regenerative farming methods and the origins of the Carbon Calling conference, and how it supports the wider farming community. To find out more about Nic and Cannerheugh Farm, follow their journey on Instagram and visit their website here. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.

Richard Higgins, chairman and CEO of Good Gardeners International, is our guest on the latest episode of the SFT Podcast. Alongside being CEO of Good Gardeners International (GGI), Richard is also a philosopher, fungi specialist, holistic scientist, and Director of Sustainable Agriculture London. He grew up on a mixed farm in Somerset and studied his National Diploma in Agriculture (NDA) at the Royal Berkshire College of Agriculture on Farm and Grassland Management. He later completed a 10-year postgraduate study of the soil fertility works of Sir Albert Howard while travelling and teaching from China to Hawaii. In this episode, Richard talks to Patrick about Sir Albert Howard’s influence on his own career, how agriculture intersects with the work of Good Gardeners International – including the charity’s demonstration farm, its innovative composting system and the value of human manure as fertiliser. Visit Good Gardners International here to find out more about their work and follow them on their social media channels @GoodGardenersINTL. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.

Joining our CEO, Patrick Holden, for this episode of the podcast is Jamie Feilden, founder of Jamie’s Farm. Jamie Feilden founded Jamie’s Farm in 2009, a charity which seeks to transform the lives of vulnerable children through farming, food and therapy. 15 years later, Jamie’s Farm works with over 2,300 children a year across seven farms, and aims to offer as many children as possible an opportunity to improve their wellbeing, boost engagement and develop key life-skills, whilst spending time on a farm.  In this episode, Jamie shares with Patrick how his experiences as a history teacher in Croydon led to the inception of Jamie’s Farm, as well as discussing his recent involvement in the SFT’s Beacon Farms Network, and why an educated public is key to achieving positive change across our food and farming systems. Visit Jamie’s Farm here to find out more about their work and follow them on their social media channels at @JamiesFarm. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up to date with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.

Kicking off series five of the Sustainable Food Trust podcast, Patrick Holden, SFT CEO and organic dairy farmer, catches up with Dani Nierenberg, President of Food Tank. Dani Nierenberg is a world-renowned researcher, speaker, and advocate, on all issues relating to our food system and agriculture. In 2013, Dani co-founded Food Tank with Bernard Pollack, a nonprofit organisation focused on building a global community for safe, healthy, nourished eaters. Food Tank is a global convener, thought leadership organisation, and unbiased creator of original research impacting the food system. Dani has an M.S. in Agriculture, Food, and Environment from the Tufts University Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy and spent two years volunteering for the Peace Corps in the Dominican Republic. In this first episode of the new series, Dani and Patrick discuss the impact of an extractive approach to agriculture upon our planet and our health. They consider how we can switch to a more regenerative approach – one that restores the soil, conserves water, and reduces the need for agrichemicals. Dani shares her insights on the recent shake-up in US politics and what the new administration could mean for food and farming, as well as exploring challenges relating to certification, labelling and consumer engagement. The conversation also examines the true cost of industrial food production, which typically isn’t reflected in the retail price, and unpicks some of the sustainable agriculture challenges currently being faced in California and beyond. Commenting on what gives her hope for the future, Dani gives plenty of reasons to be optimistic, including opportunities for young people in agriculture and the huge potential for collaboration within the food and farming sector. Visit Food Tank here to learn more about their work. And you can find Dani on LinkedIn and X. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.   Timestamps: 0:00 – Intro 0:43 – Welcome Dani! 1:28 – Food Tank’s impressive global reach 3:06 – Dani’s path to agriculture & sustainability 4:40 – The Peace Corps’ influence on Dani’s work 6:45 – The California wildfires 10:35 – Extractive agriculture in America  11:55 – What does the transition to more sustainable food & farming systems look like? 13:54 – How will the new US administration impact food and farming? 19:03 – How can we reach a wider audience? 21:22 – What did the Democrats achieve on food & farming in the last four years? 23:50 – Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Joel Salatin 25:59 – Barriers for young farmers in the US 26:46 – Groundswell film 27:31 – The challenges with certification in organic farming 30:56 – The agrochemical industry’s attempts to silence critics 32:53 – The importance of uncomfortable conversations and unusual collaborations 33:34 – True Cost Accounting  39:53 – Taking 'Feeding Britain' international 41:16 – Goodbye and thank you! 42:11 – Outro

Bringing the fourth series of the SFT podcast to a close, Patrick Holden caught up with longtime friend and one of the pioneers of the UK’s organic farming movement, Iain ‘Tolly’ Tolhurst. “We need to bring farming back into society. It’s become completely divorced from society.” Tolhurst Organic, located on the Hardwick Estate between the Chilterns and the river Thames, is a model of sustainability, and one of the longest running organic vegetable farms in England. For over 40 years, Tolly has been producing a wide range of seasonal, organic fruits and vegetables, which are sold to the local community through a box scheme. His farm was the first to attain the “Stockfree Organic” symbol in 2004, and there have been no grazing animals and no animal inputs to any part of the farm for over 30 years. To build soil fertility, Iain uses green manures as part of a crop rotation, as well as using vegetable and woodchip compost from waste materials. With his extensive knowledge and experience of organic food production, Iain also delivers educational talks across the UK and beyond, and runs a consultancy service giving advice on organic conversion and production, helping to train and educate farmers and growers for the future. During this episode, Patrick and Tolly explore the economics of farming and what it means to pay the ‘right price’ for our food. Tolly also talks about the productive capacity of Tolhurst Organic and how they’re feeding the surrounding community through their veg box scheme. Patrick and Iain delve into the current state of the UK farming sector amidst the changing policy around farm subsidies and how this is affecting both organic and conventional farmers, before closing with a conversation on the importance of demonstration farms for informing and educating people about the story behind their food and the need to incentivise farmers for this. To find out more about Iain and Tolhurst Organic, follow @tolhurstorganicveg on Instagram, or visit www.tolhurstorganic.co.uk. This conversation has been split into two episodes – for part one click here, or find the episode wherever you get your podcasts from. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.

Bringing the fourth series of the SFT podcast to a close, Patrick Holden caught up with longtime friend and one of the pioneers of the UK’s organic farming movement, Iain ‘Tolly’ Tolhurst. Tolhurst Organic, located on the Hardwick Estate between the Chilterns and the river Thames, is a model of sustainability, and one of the longest running organic vegetable farms in England. For over 40 years, Iain has been producing a wide range of seasonal, organic fruits and vegetables, which are sold to the local community through a box scheme. His farm was the first to attain the “Stockfree Organic” symbol in 2004, and there have been no grazing animals and no animal inputs to any part of the farm for over 30 years. To build soil fertility, Iain uses green manures as part of a crop rotation, as well as using vegetable and woodchip compost from waste materials. With his extensive knowledge and experience of organic food production, Iain also delivers educational talks across the UK and beyond, and runs a consultancy service giving advice on organic conversion and production, helping to train and educate farmers and growers for the future. During this episode, Patrick and Iain recount how they first met in 1981 when the UK Organic Farming movement was still in its infancy, and Iain shares the origin of his passion for horticulture, including his earliest influences. They also discuss the impacts of World War II on agriculture in the UK and what lessons we can learn from this, before digging into Iain’s farming practices including the use of wood chip, as well as a discussion around the the role of livestock. To find out more about Iain and Tolhurst Organic, follow @tolhurstorganicveg on Instagram, or visit https://www.tolhurstorganic.co.uk. This conversation has been split into two episodes – tune in for part two on Wednesday 10th April. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, Xor Facebook.

Julius Roberts – a first-generation farmer and chef with a passion for seasonal cooking and self-sufficiency – joins Patrick Holden for this episode of the SFT podcast. After studying sculpture at university, Julius worked as a full-time chef in London before moving to a smallholding in Dorset where he now farms. He keeps a range of livestock, including goats, sheep and pigs, and grows a wide variety of vegetables. He’s also amassed an online audience of over one million followers, where he shares delicious, seasonal recipes, inspiring people to think more about the seasonality and provenance of their food. In 2023 he published his recipe book, The Farm Table, which is now a Sunday Times bestseller. During the conversation, Patrick and Julius discuss a range of issues, including the pressured but inspiring time that he spent working as a full-time chef in London, the role of restaurants in providing a “home for good farming”, and humans’ responsibility to ensure a good life and death for the animals that provide our milk, cheese, meat and more. Talking about his animals, Julius comments, “I feel very privileged to be so close to my food. When you rear animals on the scale that I do, they become companions… and they should be respected… What has happened to the world of meat to make it cheap for us and an everyday commodity is a scar on humanity.” They also explore the power of storytelling and social media in connecting people with the story behind their food, as well as touching upon the current farmer protests taking place in Europe and the UK. To listen to more SFT podcasts, featuring some of the biggest names in regenerative food and farming, head to our main podcast page. And to keep up with our news, you can subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter or follow us on Instagram, X or Facebook.