$65 Million in Rentals and Not One Mortgage | Pat Grace

Most real estate investors are building a portfolio the same way buy, rehab, refinance, and watch their equity get trapped behind the walls of a mortgage while they pay heavy front-loaded interest for years. Pat Grace built $65 million in rental properties across 200 single family assets doing it completely differently and he does not have a single traditional mortgage. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Pat Grace, who discovered a banking strategy used widely in Australia that is almost completely unknown in the United States, and used it to build one of the most liquid and flexible real estate portfolios you will find anywhere. Pat breaks down his BERLOCQ method a line of credit-based approach to real estate financing using simple interest instead of compounding amortized debt and why once you see it, you cannot unsee it. KEY TOPICS COVERED Why traditional mortgages trap your equity and cost you far more than most investors realize The BERLOCQ method explained using lines of credit instead of mortgages to build a rental portfolio How Pat built $65 million in real estate with $35 million in available line of credit and zero traditional debt Why simple interest lines of credit beat compounding amortized mortgages every single time How one investor saved over $1 million in interest just by switching to this strategy How to get started with lines of credit from your first $750K line to scaling across all 50 states ️ TIMESTAMPS 00:00 — $65 million in rentals with zero mortgages the cold open 00:30 — Introducing Pat Grace 00:52 — What M.O.R.E. stands for and why this episode matters 01:43 — How Pat learned this strategy in Australia 02:07 — Why he left traditional mortgages behind 03:10 — How he started just like everyone else 04:30 — The problem with the BRRRR method most people miss 06:00 — Explained lines of credit vs amortized mortgage debt 12:00 — $35 million in available line of credit how Pat structures it 18:00 — How to approach a bank and what to ask for 25:00 — Unlocking trapped equity without a traditional refinance 32:00 — Using lines of credit for new construction and beach houses 38:00 — Protecting assets trusts, entities, and structure 43:00 — Pat's calculator save over $1 million in interest 44:00 — How to get started in all 50 states 46:00 — How to reach Pat Grace and get his free calculator Connect with Pat Grace Facebook: Pat Grace (search and friend request mention Justin Colby or The M.O.R.E. Show) Free calculator, workbooks, and resources available DM Pat on Facebook to access About The M.O.R.E. Show The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate investors think you need a bank, perfect credit, or a pile of cash to do deals. Chris Prefontaine has been proving that wrong for decades and he survived the 2008 crash to build one of the fastest growing real estate companies in America three years running on the Inc. 5000 list. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Chris Prefontaine, founder of Smart Real Estate Coach and author of the 3 Paydays book series, to break down exactly how creative financing and terms deals work in today's market, why subject-to and owner financing are some of the most powerful tools available to any investor right now, and why the most dangerous thing you can do is chase shiny objects instead of going deep on one strategy. KEY TOPICS COVERED: Creative financing explained, how to buy real estate without banks, cash, or credit Subject-to and owner financing deals, how they work and why sellers say yes The 3 Paydays model, how to get paid three times on every single deal Why Chris survived the 2008 crash when most investors did not and what he learned Shiny object syndrome: why chasing two rabbits means catching zero Why you should follow someone who has been through real market cycles, not just a bull run ️Key Moments 00:00 — Foreclosure, the repo man, and starting over 00:52 — Introducing Chris Prefontaine 01:10 — Three years on the Inc. 5000 list 01:43 — 82 active markets — real deals, not theory 02:15 — The guru epidemic 03:45 — How the coaching community works 04:03 — Subject-to, owner financing & lease options explained 07:00 — The 3 Paydays model 12:00 — How to get sellers to say yes to creative terms 18:00 — Creative financing in today's market 22:00 — Shiny object syndrome & Chris's six laws 23:43 — Chase two rabbits, catch zero 24:22 — Follow someone who has the life you want 25:00 — What success actually looks like after the scars 26:06 — Free workshop & how to get the 3 Paydays book 27:25 — Where to find Chris Prefontaine Connect with Chris Prefontaine: Website: smartrealestatecoach.com Book: 3 Paydays visit 3paydaysbooks.com/more for a free copy Free Workshop: smartrealestatecoach.com/masterclass About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate investors know how to build in a bull market. Very few know what to do when that market turns against them. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits back down with Brandon Rockstar Rooks a capital raiser who spent a decade building a $100 million land entitlement business in the southeast, working with some of the biggest national builders in the country and who hit major headwinds when the market shifted in late 2024. Brandon shares exactly what happened, why he is not embarrassed to say he is on his third reinvention, how he is pivoting into private lending, note buying, and distressed debt, and why the most dangerous thing an investor can do right now is stay loyal to a business model that has stopped working. KEY TOPICS COVERED: How Brandon built a $100 million land entitlement business working with the biggest national builders Why national builders don't want land on their balance sheets and how that creates opportunity What went wrong in Q4 2024 and why the land entitlement market shifted dramatically How Brandon is pivoting into private lending, note buying, and distressed debt Why it is okay to start over at 40 and why staying loyal to a broken business model is not The mindset of reinvention how to know when to pivot and how to do it without losing everything ️ Key Moments 00:01 — Introduction: Brandon Rockstar Rooks returns to The M.O.R.E. Show 00:32 — The Boardroom Mastermind what it is and how to get access 01:11 — Lending is getting weird what Justin is seeing in the market right now 01:31 — A decade of land entitlement capital raising how it started 02:13 — Why 15% annualized returns became the minimum standard 02:49 — How the land entitlement model works ground, permits, sell to builders 03:16 — Why national builders don't want land on their balance sheets 04:01 — First deal: $3M parcel in Charlotte NC 99 townhomes 07:00 — How the $100M raise was built and what drove it 15:00 — What changed in Q4 2024, when the market shifted 20:00 — Pivoting into private lending, note buying, and distressed debt 28:00 — How to know when your business model has stopped working 33:00 — The Dan Martell post, it is okay to start over at 40 37:00 — Round number three, reinventing again and why that is okay 39:00 — Relationships, markets, and staying ready to pivot 40:00 — How to connect with Brandon Rockstar Rooks Connect with Brandon Rockstar Rooks: Website - www.rockstarcapitalfund.com About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate investors have had a deal fall apart at the title company  not because the deal was bad, but because the title company did not know how to handle it. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Ash Selle, founder of Phoenix Closing and a 25-year title and escrow veteran who has handled tens of thousands of transactions across 7 states. Ash Selle breaks down exactly how investor-friendly title works, how to close hairy and complicated deals that other title companies won't touch, what really happens inside a title company when your deal goes sideways, and why subject-to deals, double closings, probate, and foreclosure transactions require a specialist not a generalist. KEY TOPICS COVERED: What an investor-friendly title company actually does differently from a traditional one How to close subject-to deals, double closings, probate, and foreclosure transactions correctly Why buyers are backing out last minute right now — and what title companies are seeing on the front lines The biggest mistakes real estate investors make when working with title and escrow How to find and work with a title company that will fight to get your deal across the finish line What sellers in distress foreclosure, divorce, death, prison, need from a title team ️ Key Moments 00:01 — Introduction: Ash Selle  founder of Phoenix Closing 00:23 — 25 years in title and escrow tens of thousands of transactions 00:45 — Phoenix Closing explained investor-friendly title in 7 states 01:00 — How to reach Ash Selle: phoenixclosing.co and (612) 248-6108 01:45 — What is happening in the real estate market right now from the title side 02:08 — Why buyers are backing out last minute and getting cold feet 03:47 — Distressed sellers: foreclosure, divorce, prison, probate, and death 04:09 — Interest rates why nobody on the front lines is complaining about them 07:00 — Subject-to deals explained and how to close them correctly 12:00 — Double closings what they are and how investor-friendly title handles them 18:00 — Probate and estate sales what makes these transactions complicated 22:00 — What title companies see that investors never know about 26:00 — How to be a better investor when working with your title team 29:07 — Ash Selle's advice: be kind title coordinators have multiple files 29:40 — Where to find Ash Selle and Phoenix Closing Connect with Ash Selle: Website: phoenixclosing.co Phone: (612) 248-6108 Facebook: Phoenix Closing Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate educators tell you to master one market and stay in it forever. Neil Bawa thinks that is wrong and lazy. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Neal Bawa, known as the Mad Scientist of Multifamily, a former data scientist and tech company founder who has built a portfolio of over 4,000 apartment units across 7 states with $400 million under management and 1,150 active investors. Neil breaks down why his data-driven approach to real estate outperforms gut instinct every single time, how he sold out a 237-unit apartment syndication in four hours, why he learned never to invest in Chicago again, and how he is now using fully automated AI underwriting to evaluate deals faster than any human team can. KEY TOPICS COVERED: Why there are no great markets in America only great markets at certain points in time How Neil sold out a 237-unit apartment syndication in four hours using a nurtured email list The tax strategy that forced Neil into syndication and how it built his entire empire Why Neal left single family behind and went all-in on multifamily apartments How Neal's team uses fully automated AI underwriting to analyze deals at scale The current distressed deal opportunity in Dallas and why banks are offering concessions to buyers right now ️ Key Moments 00:01 — Introduction: Neal, the Mad Scientist of Multifamily 00:30 — $400 million under management 4,000 units across 7 states 00:53 — Portfolio breakdown: Utah, Idaho, Phoenix, Texas, Atlanta 01:30 — Why Neal jumps markets, there are no permanently great markets 01:54 — Neal's background: data scientist, tech company founder, recovering technologist 02:11 — How real estate reduced Neil's taxes during his tech company years 02:31 — 2013: selling the company, massive taxable event, and discovering syndication 03:21 — How a nurtured email list sold out 237 units in four hours 04:16 — 1,150 investors and $350 million in equity raised 04:41 — Taking investors on property tours and why it changes everything 07:00 — First property: Chicago, $12.5 million, and lessons learned the hard way 10:00 — Why Neal never invests in Chicago again 15:00 — Single family war scars and the pivot to multifamily 20:00 — The four pillars of multifamily including tax benefits 25:00 — Cost segregation, bonus depreciation, and real estate professional status 30:00 — Neil's AI market data tool fully automated underwriting explained 36:00 — The distressed deal opportunity in Dallas right now 40:00 — Buying directly from banks concessions, low interest rates, long IO periods 42:00 — Co-GP model and Deal Flow Fridays 43:00 — Where to find Neal Bawa Connect with Neil Bawa: https://multifamilyu.com About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most business owners and real estate professionals are grinding for clients, chasing leads, and wondering why deals don't come to them when the real problem is that nobody knows who they are or what they stand for. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Dana Flanagan, known as the Authority Architect, a 25-year real estate veteran with hundreds of millions in commercial and global real estate who recruited 70 agents in 90 days, not by cold calling, but by building the kind of authority and credibility that makes people come to you. Dana breaks down her CIA framework, Credibility, Influence, and Authority, how she used social media before most people knew what it was to build an attraction-based business, and why going viral means nothing if you are not visible to the right people.        KEY TOPICS COVERED: The CIA framework: Credibility, Influence, and Authority and how to build all three simultaneously Why visibility to the right people beats going viral every single time How Dana recruited 70 agents in 90 days using an attraction-based model not cold outreach Why personal branding beats company branding for real estate professionals and business owners How CEOs and founders can use strategic positioning to get in front of investors and capital The biggest mistake people make when building a personal brand  and why most quit too early ️ Key Moments 00:00 — How to build authority credibility and influence in business 00:45 — Introduction: Dana Flanagan  the Authority Architect 01:16 — Dana's 25-year journey: from residential agent to executive advisor 02:00 — How posting on early Facebook built her first attraction-based business 04:13 — CIA explained: Credibility Influence and Authority framework 07:00 — How Dana recruited 70 agents in 90 days without cold calling 10:00 — Personal brand vs company brand what you should be building 15:00 — Strategic positioning: how to get in the right rooms 20:00 — How to build authority if you are starting from zero today 25:00 — The difference between going viral and being visible to your avatar 35:00 — How CEOs use authority to attract capital and investors 40:00 — Why most people quit their brand before it starts working 43:00 — Going viral means nothing — the 2 million views that got zero DMs 44:22 — Where to find and work with Dana Flanagan Connect with Dana Flanagan: Website: danaflanagan.com Email: [email protected] Instagram: @danaflanagan LinkedIn: Dana Flanagan About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate investors are so focused on houses they have completely overlooked one of the simplest and most scalable paths to seven figures in this industry. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Caleb Milobsky, a 27-year-old land wholesaler who transitioned from flipping houses to flipping land  and built a business doing over $2 million a year in the process. Caleb breaks down exactly why land has fewer variables than houses, how he sources deals across 15 states using SMS outreach, why his spreads are larger than anything he made wholesaling houses, and the exact system he uses to hit the same lists seven times until sellers respond. KEY TOPICS COVERED: Why land wholesaling is simpler and more scalable than house wholesaling How Caleb built a $2 million a year business flipping land at 27 years old How to find and evaluate land deals using Land Insights heat map data Why Caleb sends SMS to a million land owners a month — and how the system works The seven touch frequency strategy that closed a $115K deal in 45 days How to do land deals remotely across 15 states without ever visiting the property ️ Key Moments: 00:00 — Introduction: why he quit wholesaling houses 00:43 — Why land has fewer variables than houses 01:35 — Building a $2 million a year land business 02:00 — How land wholesaling works for beginners 02:50 — Land Insights software explained heat maps and county selection 03:26 — SMS outreach at scale, a million texts a month 06:00 — How to evaluate land deals and what to look for 10:00 — Wetlands, floodplains, and due diligence for land 15:00 — How Caleb sources deals across 15 states remotely 20:00 — Pricing, spreads, and what land deals actually pay 25:00 — The acquisition process from first contact to close 31:10 — The seven touch frequency strategy, $115K deal example 33:50 — Where to find Caleb Phillips and his free community Connect with Caleb Milobsky : YouTube: @Caleb_Flips_Land Instagram: @Cmilobsky About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most people in real estate have never heard of mineral rights investing and most people who have heard of John Fernando's story still don't believe it. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with John Fernando, who went from homelessness, drug addiction, and couch surfing to raising over a billion dollars in capital through oil and gas mineral rights. John walks through the exact mindset shift that changed everything for him, how he discovered the mineral rights space when almost nobody else was in it, why mineral rights are one of the most overlooked and undervalued asset classes in all of real estate, and the single phrase delayed obedience is disobedience  that he credits with turning his entire life around. KEY TOPICS COVERED: John Fernando's full story from drug addiction and homelessness to raising billions in capital What mineral rights are, why they are separate from surface rights, and why most people never think about them How John built a business in a space where almost nobody else was operating Why oil and gas mineral rights represent a massive overlooked opportunity for real estate investors The mindset principle of delayed obedience that John learned at a Christian boot camp and applied to business How to find, evaluate, and acquire mineral rights deals across the country ️ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Delayed obedience is disobedience  the story that made John a millionaire 01:16 — Introduction: John Fernando's journey from the streets to billions raised 02:00 — From drug addiction and homelessness to the turning point. 03:10 — The Christian boot camp that changed everything. 07:00 — Discovering mineral rights and why nobody else was in the space. 15:00 — How mineral rights work and why they are separate from surface rights. 25:00 — How to find and acquire mineral rights deals. 35:00 — The oil and gas market right now and where the opportunity is. 45:00 — Building a team and scaling a mineral rights operation. 55:00 — The boardroom level of capital raising in this space 58:00 — Door knocking for mineral rights — including the shotgun stories 01:00:19 — Where to find John Fernando Connect with John Fernando: Website: www.firethornholdings.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There are over 100 million lawsuits filed every single year in the United States and you are seven times more likely to face a lawsuit than to get into a car accident. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Hillel Presser, asset protection attorney, six-time author, and advisor who has protected over $11 billion in assets for celebrities, athletes, and business owners across the country. Hillel breaks down the single most powerful wealth protection principle the ultra-wealthy use, own nothing and control everything and exactly how to set up LLCs, trusts, and protective entities so that one lawsuit never takes everything you have spent your life building. KEY TOPICS COVERED: Why you are seven times more likely to face a lawsuit than get in a car accident  and what to do about it Own nothing control everything the asset protection strategy the ultra-wealthy use. LLCs, limited partnerships, and trusts explained which one is right for your situation. How to title your assets into protective entities without losing access or control. What to do if you are starting a new business today to protect it from day one. Why your accountant and your tax strategist are not the same thing  and why that gap is costing you ️ Key Moments 00:00 — 100 million lawsuits a year, the stat that should scare every business owner 00:35 — Introduction: Hillel Presser and $11 billion in assets protected 01:17 — It's not what you make it's what you keep 02:00 — What the ultra wealthy do to become uncollectable and judgment proof 03:20 — Own nothing control everything explained 04:10 — LLCs, limited partnerships, and trusts — how protective entities work 10:00 — How to pull a HELOC when your home is inside a trust 15:00 — Offshore strategies and advanced asset protection 25:00 — Protecting assets from divorce — 50% chance you need this 35:00 — What happens when a lawsuit hits and you are not protected 40:00 — How celebrities and athletes set up from the beginning 45:00 — The one thing Hillel would tell young people starting out today 48:44 — Start early — why waiting costs you more than you think 50:17 — How to contact Hillel Presser and get complimentary books Connect with Hillel Presser: Website: assetprotectionattorneys.com (Mention The M.O.R.E. Show for complimentary copies of Hillel's latest books) About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most real estate investors know the fortune is in the follow-up but nobody on their team is actually getting deep enough into the pipeline to find it. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with Bill Beck, 15-year real estate veteran, wholesaler, and co-founder of Hey Rafi, an AI-powered follow-up tool built specifically for real estate investors. Bill breaks down how AI is transforming lead follow-up from a human bottleneck into a fully automated system that runs 24 hours a day, why most teams are only scratching the surface of their existing lead databases, and how investors are dramatically reducing their cost per contract by letting AI handle the long-term follow-up pipeline. KEY TOPICS COVERED: Why the fortune is in the follow-up and why most teams never actually get there. How AI is replacing the long-term lead follow-up role in real estate investing Hey Rafi explained: what it does, how it works, and who it is built for How to reduce cost per contract using AI automation instead of adding headcount. Why handing your old leads to an AI system could be your biggest win right now. The difference between shotgun volume outreach and rifle precision and why AI does both. ️ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Introduction: Bill Beck and the AI opportunity in real estate 00:51 — Bill's 15-year journey from corporate world to wholesaling 03:11 — Building Rise: a 16-person wholesaling operation 04:02 — What led Bill to start leaning into AI 07:00 — Hey Rafi explained: the AI follow-up tool for real estate investors 15:00 — How AI handles long-term lead follow-up better than human teams 20:00 — Cost per contract: what the data is showing right now 25:00 — How to plug Hey Rafi into your existing lead database 28:00 — Shotgun vs rifle: why volume and precision both win with AI 32:00 — How to get started with Hey Rafi 34:19 — Closing thoughts: AI is here and there are great resources Connect with Bill Beck: Website: www.heyrafi.com Instagram: @thebeckblueprint_ About The M.O.R.E. Show: The M.O.R.E. Show is hosted by Justin Colby and is dedicated to helping real estate professionals, investors, and entrepreneurs maximize opportunity in any market. New episodes every week. Learn more: www.timeformore.com Invest with Elevest Capital: www.elevestcapital.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.