Episode 361 with Dr. Assal Rad, Author of Don't Say Palestine: How the Media Manufactured Consent for Genocide and Dogged and Principled Researcher/Chronicler of Media Bias Against Genocide Victims

Notes and Links to Hannah Lillith Assadi’s Work     Hannah Lillith Assadi is the author of the Women's Prize long-listed novel Paradiso 17 (Knopf 2026), inspired by the life of her late Palestinian father. Her debut novel Sonora (Soho 2017) received the Rosenthal Family Foundation Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and was a finalist for the PEN/ Robert W. Bingham Prize. Her second novel The Stars Are Not Yet Bells (Riverhead 2022) was named a New Yorker and NPR best book of 2022. She is also the co-editor of an anthology of the poetry of Mahmoud Darwish, which will be published by Everyman’s Library/ Knopf in November 2026. She teaches fiction at Columbia University School of the Arts and the Pratt Institute. In 2018, she was named a '5 under 35' honoree by the National Book Foundation.     Buy Paradiso 17   Hannah Lillith Assadi's Website   Zain Khalid Review of Paradiso 17 in The New York Times     At about 3:00, Hannah recounts the story of how she received the news that Paradiso 17 is on the National Book Awards shortlist  At about 5:10, Hannah cites John Freeman as an incredibly dynamic and helpful editor At about 7:10, Hannah references the great work of editor PJ Mark, and talks about the ways in which she wrote and edited the book in the midst of her grief and “altered state of mind” after her father’s passing At about 8:10, Pete asks Hannah about writing something so personal and about the line between fiction and nonfiction, and she responds in giving a timeline of the book’s genesis and development At about 13:00, Hannah responds to Pete asking about seeing her father as a "legendary figure” At about 14:50, Hannah reflects on the book as “catharsi[s]” At about 16:40, the two discuss the book’s epigraph and ideas of exile At about 21:30, Pete highlights the “beautiful” writing from Pages 2-3 and Hannah reads an excerpt from this section At about 28:00, Hannah reflects on a lot of her reading about the afterlife informed the above excerpt and so much of her book At about 29:30, The two discuss Part I and the book’s exposition, as Hannah talks about real-life parallels to the fiction  At about 33:10, the early days of the Nakba are related as happening in the book At about 36:00, The two reflect on the idea of people being dispossessed and exiled so quickly, as in the Holocaust and the Nakba At about 37:15, The two discuss the phenomenon of early memories and solipsism, as happens with protagonist Sufien    At about 39:50, Hannah talks about deaths via grief and heartbreak and horrific natural conditions, post-Nakba At about 43:40, Hannah explains the seemingly counterintuitive “happiness” that Sufien experienced in Syrian refugee camps At about 45:30, Pete recounts part of Sufien’s father’s travails and tragedies  At about 46:25, Hannah responds to Pete asking about Sufien/Hannah’s father, (i.e. “nature and nurture”) and what they would have been like without the “primal wound” of the Nakba At about 50:35, Pete asks Hannah about the timing of her father’s death so close to the beginning of the genocide in Gaza    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 365 with Joe Bond, an award-winning short story writer whose debut novel Hope House explores the lives of a group of troubled teenage boys in a treatment program in the late 1980s. Bond grew up around such homes in eastern Kentucky and began working in them when he was still in high school, starting out on night shift and later spending his summers as the primary child care worker for a group of teenagers barely younger than he was.    The episode airs on October 21.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Elizabeth Stordeur Pryor’s Work     Elizabeth Stordeur Pryor is a professor of history at Smith College where she teaches courses on race, slavery and her father, comedic legend Richard Pryor. She is the award-winning author of the article “The Etymology of [N-Word]: Resistance, Language, and the Politics of Freedom in the Antebellum North” and a 2016 book Colored Travelers: Mobility and the Fight for Citizenship before the Civil War. Her viral TED talk on why it's hard to talk about the n-word has been viewed over two million times.    Something We Said, Richard Pryor, a Notorious Word, and Me is Professor Pryor’s latest book (37 Ink an imprint of Simon & Schuster, 2026). The book is a braided narrative that seamlessly integrates the history of the n-word with her own story of growing up half Black, half Jewish and all Pryor. It peels back the curtain on the life of the iconic comedian and interrogates the most perplexing word in the American lexicon, a word he helped popularize.    Elizabeth lives in Massachusetts with her husband Jerry Stordeur and loves to go hiking and watch movies with their two grown kids, Lilli and Henry.    Buy Something We Said: Richard Pryor, a Notorious Word, and Me   Elizabeth Stordeur Pryor's Wikipedia Page   People Magazine Article about Elizabeth Stordeur Pryor and Her Father’s Identity   At about 1:40, Elizabeth talks about edifying feedback she’s gotten since publishing of Something We Said… At about 3:25, Elizabeth recounts a special gift received from her father, comedic legend Richard Pryor At about 5:25, Pete shouts out Traci Thomas’ analysis of Shakespeare and he and Eliaabth  At about 6:45, Elizabeth reflects on her early reading life and highlights Pardon Me, You’re Stepping on My Eyeball At about 8:30, Pete and Elizabeth get a laugh out of an awkward father-daughter movie date At about 10:40, Elizabeth cites books and writers that she read that were more  “connected to [her] experience” as she got into high school and college At about 11:40, the two talk about literature connected to Elizabeth’s high school and San Fernando Valley upbringing At about 13:40, Elizabeth talks about the opening up of perspectives and ideas in learning about much of Black history through her mature high school and college reading At about 15:30, Elizabeth talks about reading works that spoke to her and about sometimes “translating” texts At about 17:15, Elizabeth traces the seeds for the book-an event from 2010 in a college classroom involving Richard Pryor’s Blazing Saddles At about 19:40, Elizabeth traces the ways in which she has taught and said and written about the racial slur that informs much of the memoir  At about 21:50, The two reflect on and share stories about discussion in the classroom At about 23:05, The two discuss Elizabeth’s connecting of her father’s standup to his unusual funeral At about 24:55, Pete charts the book’s structure, including Interludes that trace the ugly history of the racial slur At about 25:45, Elizabeth tells the story of the first time meeting her father  At about 28:15, Elizabeth talks about a famous “epiphany” in 1967 for her father, and his evolving subject matter for his comedy At about 32:00, The two discuss a history and present of racism and segregation in Peoria, Illinois, Richard Pryor’s hometown  At about 33:20, Elizabeth reflects on a pivotal incident and advice from her father after she was a victim of racist taunts-she refers to the "generational pain” she felt at that young age At about 34:50, Elizabeth responds to Pete asking about family parallels and tough conversations about racism in the Pryor family and beyond  At about 38:00, Pete asks Elizabeth about her father’s private and public personas  At about 39:40, Elizabeth refers to a “revelation hangover” in further explaining her father’s private and professional lives At about 40:15, Elizabeth talks her father “turning into a robot” when he was “resigned” to following his mother’s orders At about 41:50, Elizabeth talks about her dad as an “artist” with “intentional[ity]” and a top-notch work ethic At about 44:40, Elizabeth details conversation with Cecil Brown and others and Richard Pryor as he “curated” his work and thought critically about fame and art and creativity  At about 46:05, The two discuss Elizabeth’s vulnerability in the book, and Elizabeth responds to Pete’s question about the experience in bearing her soul At about 48:50, Elizabeth and Pete reflect on the younger generations and their views and actions regarding race and racism         You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 364 with Hannah Lillith Assadi, whose debut novel Sonora (Soho 2017) received the Rosenthal Family Foundation Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and was a finalist for the PEN/ Robert W. Bingham Prize. Her second novel The Stars Are Not Yet Bells (Riverhead 2022) was named a New Yorker and NPR best book of 2022. She is also the co-editor of an anthology of the poetry of Mahmoud Darwish, which will be published by Everyman’s Library/ Knopf in November 2026. She teaches fiction at Columbia University School of the Arts and the Pratt Institute. In 2018, she was named a '5 under 35' honoree by the National Book Foundation. Her latest novel-and this is a modern classic-is Paradiso 17, inspired by the life of her late Palestinian father, and currently shortlisted for the National Book Awards fiction category.     The episode airs on October 20.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Imani Thompson’s Work       Imani Thompson is a British writer of Scottish, Irish, and Jamaican heritage. After studying Sociology at Cambridge University, she worked as a bookseller at Daunt Books. Honey is her first novel. She lives in London.    Buy Honey   Imani Thompson’s Author Page   Article about Imani Thompson in Vogue     At about 2:00, Imani responds to Pete asking about the way Honey has been received and interpreted since it came out in May 2026  At about 3:00, Imani speaks to her experience as a budding reader and writer  At about 6:00, Pete asks Imani about using an epigraph from Jamaica Kincaid’s “Girl” for Honey At about 7:45, Imani responds to Pete’s question about the impact of Caribbean writers on Imani’s work; she notes the importance of Caribbean food in her book At about 8:30, Imani recounts the “elevator pitch” for her daring and unique storyline At about 9:40, Iamni says it’s “not possible” to “stand in judgment” of her characters morally and expands on why not At about 10:25, Pete and Imani lay out some of the book’s exposition  At about 12:25, Imani provides background on "intersectionality" and its recent and not-so recent history At about 14:15, Imani talks about the significance of race and class and racism and classism in the UK At about 15:45, Imani reflects on Yrsa, the protagonist, and her seemingly “normal” family, as she sought to avoid tropes around serial killers At about 18:10, The two set up the book’s inciting incident and ideas of power differential and misogyny At about 20:00, Imani connects the recent tragic events involving Jason Arday to events in the novel At about 21:10, The death of Richardson is dissected and talked about in legal terms  At about 23:05, Imani talks about a “reawken[ing]” and Yrsa as an “addict” after the first murder/manslaughter At about 24:00, Pete stumbles through linking the post-death scene for Yrsa with Saltburn, and Imani remarks on the sensuous scene At about 25:40, Imani speaks to a lack of emotion in Yrsa over death, and the idea of “death as liberating,” perhaps based on her early life experience  At about 27:40, Saidiya Hartman and other writers and their ideas of Black liberation and Afropessism are discussed in connection to Yrsa’s murders and philosophy   At about 29:10, Pete points to the ending of the novel as “unsettling” At about 30:30, Yrsa and the quotidian and a budding romance are discussed, and the two reflect on Yrsa’s wants in a partner   At about 33:15, Imani responds to Pete’s asking about the “meta” nature of the book and what it was like to write satire, and humor, and chaos At about 34:50, Imani discusses the flipping of gender roles in the novel, including her “big reason” for writing the book in an “accessible” way  At about 37:05, the two discuss Adolescence and American Psycho and incel culture in connection the novel At about 42:00, Imani speaks to putting the past of the character into their present, and ideas of character building when using historical context At about 44:30, Windrush and other Caribbean migration to the UK and the history of oppression there is discussed  At about 45:45, Imani talks about an exciting future media project for the novel        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.    Please tune in for Episode 363 with Elizabeth Stordeur Pryor. Elizabeth Stordeur    Pryor is a professor of history at Smith College where she teaches courses on race, slavery and her father, comedic legend Richard Pryor. She is the award-winning author of the article “The Etymology of [N-Word]: Resistance, Language, and the Politics of Freedom in the Antebellum North” and a 2016 book Colored Travelers: Mobility and the Fight for Citizenship before the Civil War. Her viral TED talk on why it's hard to talk about the n-word has been viewed over two million times. Something We Said, Richard Pryor, a Notorious Word, and Me is Professor Pryor’s latest book (37 Ink an imprint of Simon & Schuster, 2026). The book is a braided narrative that seamlessly integrates the history of the n-word with her own story of growing up half Black, half Jewish and all Pryor.     The episode airs on October 13 or 14.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Palestinian people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Assal Rad’s Work     Dr. Assal Rad is scholar of Middle East history and political advocate based in California. She works on research and writing related to U.S. foreign policy issues, the Middle East, contemporary Iran, and Israel/Palestine.     Dr. Rad graduated with a PhD in Middle Eastern History from the University of California, Irvine in 2018. Her PhD research focused on modern Iran, with an emphasis on national identity formation and popular culture in post-revolutionary Iran.    She is the author of The State of Resistance: Politics, Culture, and Identity in Modern Iran (Cambridge University Press, 2022). Her writing can be seen in Newsweek, The National Interest, The Independent, Foreign Policy, The American Prospect, and more. She has appeared as a commentator on BBC World, CNN, Al Jazeera, NPR, and others.    In 2021, Assal was selected for Middle East Policy Council's 40 Under 40 List and OUT in National Security's Leaders and New Voices List. Follow her on X/Twitter: @AssalRad.   Buy Don't Say Palestine: How the Media Manufactured Consent for Genocide    Assal Rad's Website with Arab Center DC   Review of Don't Say Palestine... from GeoPolity     At about 1:40, Assal describes the design and meanings of the cover for Don’t Say Palestine At about 3:30, Pete refers to the book’s opening, “Why I Correct Headlines" and Assal talks about the seeds for the book’s and its concept At about 6:15, Assal diagrams the wording of the headlines that inspired much of her book At about 8:30, The two discuss the “softening” of language and passive language in headlines revolving around Israel and Palestine  At about 9:30, Assal responds to Pete’s question about the process of tracking headlines involving Palestine and Israel and how the project evolved into a book At about 12:05, Assal expands on dehumanizing language used by Israeli officials about Palestinians and Muslims and the ways in which the language mirrors that of the Nazis towards the Jews in Holocaust times At about 15:00, Pete references the "machinery of colonialism" and the softening of Israeli violence  At about 16:00, The two highlight Hind Rajab and “NAZA”/ “collateral damage”  At about 17:05, Assad expands on the ludicrous and tragic nature of the supposed "ceasefire" in Gaza At about 21:00, Pete and Assal remark on how The Onion is often more accurate than most Western headlines regarding Palestinian genocide At about 22:50, Pete asks Assal if she feels her work pointing out one-sided headlines has/has the potential to affect change and she speaks on the “truth of who is carrying out the violence” and her optimism/pessimism  At about 29:35, The two shake their heads at the absurdity of the New York Times wondering if Ms. Rachel had ties to Hamas At about 30:40, Pete highlights the human rights groups in Palestine and the Palestinian journalists and medics and others targeted by the IDF and Israeli government, as Assal expands on the appalling violence against medics and the like, and the way the legacy media ignores/distorts the stories At about 35:20, Pete asks Assal about the "manufactured consent” that she writes about  At about 36:35, Pete asks Assal about her conceptions of PEP and Blinken and Biden and others in his administration; she calls the Biden Adminstration the “architects of genocide”  At about 40:55, Assal points out the double-standards between the ways in which war crimes are assessed in Russia/Ukraine and Gaza/Palestine, particularly by Biden’s administration and Matthew Miller At about 43:45, Assal points out the Leahy Laws as making aid to the Israeli government technically illegal in a domestic sense At about 44:45, The lack of an officially-recognized State of Palestine and the ways in which the paradox handcuffs Palestinian resistance are discussed  At about 45:50, The two discuss the “verbal gymnastics” undertaken by government officials and John Kirby’s not seeing Palestinians as human beings At about 46:30, Pete references the recent Google images of “before and after” in Gaza At about 47:05, Pete asks Assal’s about the “reckon[ing]” and justice that she sees as possible and any future remedies At about 48:00, Assal talks about the blatant racism and “taking of humanity” that governs the Gaza genocide discourse and denial        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 362 with Imani Thompson, a British writer of Scottish, Irish, and Jamaican heritage. After studying Sociology at Cambridge University, she worked as a bookseller at Daunt Books. Honey is her first novel, and has been a smash hit.     The episode airs on October 13 or 14th.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Nafissa Thompson Spires’ Work     Born and raised in Southern California, Nafissa Thompson-Spires is the author of the award-winning, National Book Award longlisted short story collection, Heads of the Colored People.    She earned a doctorate in English from ­­­­Vanderbilt University and a Master of Fine Arts in Creative Writing from ­­­­­­the University of Illinois. Her short fiction and essays have appeared in The Paris Review Daily, New York Magazine’s “The Cut,” The Root, The White Review, Ploughshares, 400 Souls: A Community History of African America 1619-2019, and The 1619 Project, among other publications.     In addition to a debut novel with Scribner, The Four Wives and Five Deaths of Rich Milford, her young adult debut is forthcoming with Make Me a World (Penguin Random House). She is the recipient of a 2024 United States Artists Grant and a 2019 Whiting Award.         Buy The Four Wives and Five Deaths of Richard Milford   Nafissa Thompson Spires’ Website   Review of The Four Wives… from Publishers’ Weekly     At about 1:55, Nafissa responds to Pete asking about her appearance on Seth Myers’ show At about 3:30, Nafissa gives some background on family history that gave rise to The Four Wives… At about 5:00, Nafissa reflects on the feedback readers have given her, especially with protagonist Rich “being painted with a compassionate brush,” as said in a review  At about 6:15, Nafissa gives information about book tour events   At about 7:10, Nafissa gives background on her early reading and writing life At about 10:20, Nafissa highlights current and past writers who have thrilled and inspired her At about 12:45, Nafissa talks about difficulty in managing a structure for her novel, and sage advice from R.O. Kwon At about 14:00, Nafissa responds to Pete commenting on the town of Newville in the novel as a “Greek chorus” At about 14:50, Nafissa expands on the significance of the epigraphs  At about 15:30, Nafissa discusses her mindset in starting the book at the end of the chronology  At about 16:45, Nafissa responds to Pete noting the book’s humor by discussing the ways in which writing each wife’s story was easy or not At about 18:30, Nafissa reflects on sitting in judgment (or not) morally of the women in the book At about 20:25, Nafissa explains ways in which Rich and the town of Newville show interesting ways of “moving through time” and John Edgar Wideman and his ideas of cyclical time At about 22:20, Nafissa discusses "insiders" and “outsiders” as seen via dance At about 23:00, Pete places The Tulsa Race Massacre in juxtaposition to the book’s setting and events, and Nafissa gives background on writing outside the white gaze At about 26:05, Mythology and childhood traumas in Rich’s life are discussed At about 28:50, Pete and Nafissa give background on Newville itself in relation to Rich and his wives’ Chantilly estate with its variety of characters  At about 31:30, Alberta and her “advoca[cy]” for Rich are featured as well as the importance of an inciting incident and a crazy history of Rough on Rats ™  At about 33:40, The history of the Milford family is recounted  At about 34:50, A “binary” approach in W.E. DuBois and Booker T. Washington and the ways they are viewed today are discussed  At about 37:05, Mae, Rich’s sister, is discussed, as is Rich’s childhood mischief At about 38:15, Pete asks Nafissa about the importance of religious institutions in the book At about 40:20, The two discuss early inciting incidents in the book and the ways in which Rich solidifies power  At about 41:40, Nafissa talks about Lally as “performative” and “affected” in the way she behaves and writes At about 43:20, Pete and Nafissa reflect on a pivotal scene that leads to a loss of passion and the ways in which two more wives join the Milford family At about 44:25, Pete points out a list made by Lally that speaks  At about 45:20, Taxidermy! At about 46:10, Pete points the cinematic quality of the book, and Nafissa pictures it as a series with each woman getting a “chapter” At about 47:30, Nafissa talks about “crumbs” and “hunger” and a “humiliating” scene  At about 50:00, Theo the philanderer and Rosemary, the goddess, are discussed, and Nafissa explains the significance of the blood moon At about 52:10, Nafissa responds to Pete asking about the balancing of the literal and figurative/satirical  At about 53:40, Nafissa compares writing short stories and novels      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 361 with Dr. Assal Rad, a scholar of Middle East history and political advocate based in California. She works on research and writing related to U.S. foreign policy issues, the Middle East, contemporary Iran, and Israel/Palestine.     Dr. Rad graduated with a PhD in Middle Eastern History from the University of California, Irvine in 2018. Her PhD research focused on modern Iran, with an emphasis on national identity formation and popular culture in post-revolutionary Iran.    She is the author of The State of Resistance: Politics, Culture, and Identity in Modern Iran (Cambridge University Press, 2022). Her writing can be seen in Newsweek, Foreign Policy, The American Prospect, and more. She has appeared as a commentator on BBC World, CNN, Al Jazeera, NPR, and others.    In 2021, Assal was selected for Middle East Policy Council's 40 Under 40 List and OUT in National Security's Leaders and New Voices List.    Her newest book, Don’t Say Palestine, is an important and groundbreaking addition to the canon on media bias regarding Gaza and Palestine.    The episode airs on October 13.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Kristen Millares Young’s Work     A prize-winning novelist, journalist and essayist, Kristen Millares Young is the author of the memoir Desire Lines, forthcoming from Red Hen Press and Brilliance Audio on October 6, 2026, and the novel Subduction, named a staff pick by The Paris Review. “Kristen Millares Young will take readers along on her journey of discovery as she publishes her debut memoir this year,” writes People magazine in its exclusive cover reveal for Desire Lines, named a “Most Anticipated Feminist Book of 2026” by Ms. Magazine. “Young provides an intellectually courageous road map for readers reconciling the cracks in their own family narratives,” writes Shelf Awareness in a starred review.    Called “searching, generous, and unrelenting” by Melissa Febos, “explosive and daring” by Luis Alberto Urrea, and “alive with style and poetic lyricism” by Weike Wang, Desire Lines is a forensic investigation into the emotional topography of being a woman, a writer and a mother. Kristen narrated the Desire Lines audiobook to be released on October 6, 2026 by Brilliance Publishing. She received a 4Culture grant to support her memoir’s translation into Senderos del deseo by Majel Reyes Quesada. “In Desire Lines, Kristen Millares Young explores womanhood, human rights, and identity with a moral imperative and artistry that few writers achieve,” writes Brandon Hobson. “She is an immense literary talent, and this remarkable book should be read by all.”   Buy Desire Lines   Kristen Millares Young’s Website   Article and Preview and Interview with Kristen Millares Young Desire Lines in People Magazine     At about 1:00, Kristen describes a delectable meal she’s about to share in celebration with her neighbors At about 3:05, Pete asks Kristen about her mindset as her memoir is a few days from publication  At about 5:00, Kristen describes the use of the second-person in the book after Pete asks about Cuban translations using “tú” or “Usted”  At about 6:00, Kristen responds to Pete’s asking about book tour events and publication info At about 8:20, Kristen responds to Pete asking about her background with reading and writing, and talks about book as a continuing “solace” to her At about 10:30, Kristen describes the “moving” experience of visiting Hemingway House as she is asked about formative and transformative writers and writing, Sara Ahmed and Audre Lorde are also highlighted  At about 15:25, Kristen responds to Pete’s question about contemporary favorites by citing Melissa Febos and Elissa Washuta At about 17:40, Kristen reflects on continuity in a collection made up of individuals essays-she talks about her appreciation for “fractals” At about 20:00, Kristen talks about different forms of storytelling: spiraling, for example, and those precepts set out by Ursula LeGuin and others At about 22:05, Kristen sets up and reads the epigraph/opening poem of the memoir At about 25:40, Pete lays out some of the book’s opening lines and asks Krsiten about her mindset in starting the book in Galicia At about 30:15, Kristen gives background on Cybele, an important part of her book  At about 32:55, Kristen makes the salient point about the continuing propping up of rapists like Oddyseus and others from mythology At about 36:50, Kristen responds to Pete's question about perspectives that she has had regarding two health scares 20 or so years apart   At about 42:50, Kristen speaks of her interactions and experiences in Cuba with writers and “jinetes”  At about 46:00, Kristen expands talks on the idea of women as “providers,” as evidenced by the previous comments on what she experienced in Cuba  At about 47:50, Kristen talks of the idea of the flâneur and misogynistic expectations   At about 49:40, Kristen responds to Pete asking about the supposed “protection” provided (or not) by men in her life and in society in general  At about 56:40, The two discuss expectations for women’s bodies, and Kristen points out “Our Lady of Perpetual Self-Loathing” as a chapter that reflects on these ideas At about 1:02:20, Kristen discusses sexual harassment in the workplace At about 1:03:10, Pete points out some profound quotes from the book and the two discuss systems and the ways in which systems oppress women, including sexual assault and rape victims; Kristen cites  At about 1:06:45, Kristen talks about “asserting regard” for herself and other women through this book At about 1:09:00, Cybele as representative of women’s strength and dark humor are discussed-Kristen talks about “wit as a weapon” At about 1:09:40, Pete asks Kristen about forgiveness and contrition as discussed in the book At about 1:13:00, Kristen refers to Chekhov in connecting to her last two books in responding to Pete’s question about “catharsis”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 360 with Nafissa Thompson-Spires. Born and raised in Southern California, Nafissa Thompson-Spires is the author of the award-winning, National Book Award longlisted short story collection, Heads of the Colored People. Her short fiction and essays have appeared in The Paris Review Daily, New York Magazine’s “The Cut,” The Root, 400 Souls: A Community History of African America 1619-2019, and The 1619 Project, among other publications.  ​   In addition to a debut novel with Scribner, The Four Wives and Five Deaths of Rich Milford, her young adult debut is forthcoming with Make Me a World (Penguin Random House). She is the recipient of a 2024 United States Artists Grant and a 2019 Whiting Award.      The episode airs on October 11.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Daniel Peña’s Work     Daniel Peña is a Pushcart Prize-winning writer and Associate Professor of Creative Writing.  Formerly, he was based out of the UNAM in Mexico City where he worked as Fulbright-Garcia Robles Scholar. A graduate of Cornell University and a former Picador Guest Professor in Leipzig, Germany, his writing has appeared in Ploughshares, The Rumpus, the Kenyon Review, Texas Monthly, NBC News, and The New York Times Magazine among  other venues. He’s currently a regular contributor to the Guardian and the Ploughshares blog. His debut collection of essays, HOW TO LOOK AWAY is out now from One World books. He splits his time between Dallas, Mexico City, and a tiny farm in Germany.    Buy How to Look Away   Daniel Peña's Website     At about 1:00, Daniel talks about purchasing info for How to Look Away, tour events, and his mindset four days before the book’s Pub Day  At about 4:30, Daniel talks about his Texas sports’ loyalties  At about 12:55, David responds to Pete’s questions about his childhood language and literature life At about 20:55, Pete highlights Alfredo Corchado’s work as he asks Daniel about formative writers and writing in his life, including work by Francisco Goldman and Corchado At about 25:15, Pete asks Daniel’s choice in titling his book and implications for the title At about 29:45, Daniel talks about movement and its importance and connects it to COVID and George Floyd protests  At about 34:00, Daniel outlines his experience in September 2014 in protests re: Ayotzinapa, and the importance of riots in a democracy At about 36:40, the two discuss the individualistic ethic and the “intens[ity]” of the early pandemic At about 37:40, Daniel talks about the strangeness of writing and parenthood during the pandemic  At about 39:35, The two discuss the ways in which self-regulating industries have worked, including crypto companies/businesspeople as featured in Daniel's book At about 42:35, The two reflect on the ways in which institutions have failed people of color, and how crypto has failed so many; Daniel references “creating the worse parts of humanity”  Nefando by Monica Ojeda and Labatut’s When We Cease to Understand the World At about 46:30, Daniel talks about critical free speech issues in 2026 At about 47:45, Pete asks Daniel about a main topic of the book-the compulsion to gaze at disaster; Daniel references Primo Levi and “useless violence” At about 50:25, Daniel talks about an “epiphany” he had in researching for the book At about 51:35, Daniel reflects on ideas of survival and “what’s done in our names” At about 52:40, Pete and Daniel discuss traumas and “forms of disappearance”   At about 55:40, The two discuss the tragic story of Aliana featured in the book At about 59:10, Pete highlights areas of joy featured in the book At about 1:01:00, Daniel discusses the cruelty involved with family separation through immigration policies        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 359 with Kristen Millares Young, A prize-winning novelist, journalist and essayist, Kristen Millares Young is the author of the memoir Desire Lines, forthcoming from Red Hen Press and Brilliance Audio on October 6, 2026, and the novel Subduction, named a staff pick by The Paris Review. “Kristen Millares Young will take readers along on her journey of discovery as she publishes her debut memoir this year,” writes People Magazine in its exclusive cover reveal for Desire Lines, named a “Most Anticipated Feminist Book of 2026” by Ms. Magazine.     The episode airs on October 6 or 7.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Palestinian people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

In this special anthology episode, Pete's shares his conversations with titans of the industry, Traci Thomas, David Naimon, and Brad Listi.      Traci Thomas is the creator and host of the critically acclaimed literary podcast, The Stacks. She is a passionate champion of books and a deeply curious interviewer. Traci is a monthly contributor on NPR’s Here & Now, a columnist for shereads.com, the creator of the LAist live literary series, One for the Books. She also hosts and moderates literary events, book festivals, and author talks nationwide. Traci’s substack, Unstacked, is a place where she dives deeper into books, and also discusses topics outside the literary world like pop culture, sports, politics, and more.     Away from The Stacks, Traci is a lover of hot takes, a watcher of sports, and a true snack enthusiast. Originally from Oakland, CA, she now lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Mr. Stacks, and her twin boys, the Mini Stacks.      David Naimon is a writer and host of the literary podcast Between the Covers. His writing is published widely, from Orion Magazine to Tin House. It has garnered a Pushcart Prize and been reprinted in Best American Science & Nature Writing, Best Spiritual Literature, and The Best Small Fictions anthology. He is also the co-author, with Ursula K. Le Guin, of Ursula K. Le Guin: Conversations on Writing. Between the Covers is his long-running podcast.        Brad Listi was born in Milwaukee. He is the author of the novel Be Brief and Tell Them Everything (Ig Publishing / May 2022). His other books include the novel Attention. Deficit. Disorder., an LA Times bestseller, and Board, a work of nonfiction collage, co-authored with Justin Benton. In 2011 he launched the Otherppl podcast, one of the longest-running literary interview podcasts in the world. It features in-depth interviews with today's leading authors. He is also the founder of DeepDive, a digital learning platform that creates in-depth audio courses. DeepDive's debut course is called How to Write a Novel. It features more than 50 hours of insight and instruction from nearly four dozen leading contemporary authors.  He lives in Los Angeles.

Notes and Links to Brad Listi’s Work        Brad Listi was born in Milwaukee. He is the author of the novel Be Brief and Tell Them Everything (Ig Publishing / May 2022). His other books include the novel Attention. Deficit. Disorder., an LA Times bestseller, and Board, a work of nonfiction collage, co-authored with Justin Benton. In 2011 he launched the Otherppl podcast, one of the longest-running literary interview podcasts in the world. It features in-depth interviews with today's leading authors. He is also the founder of DeepDive, a digital learning platform that creates in-depth audio courses. DeepDive's debut course is called How to Write a Novel. It features more than 50 hours of insight and instruction from nearly four dozen leading contemporary authors.  He lives in Los Angeles.   Listen to The Otherppl Podcast   Brad Listi's Website   Buy Brad’s Be Brief and Tell Them Everything   At about 2:00, Pete congratulates Brad on 15 years of Otherppl and asking him about his reading and writing example  At about 3:10, The two discuss “the creepiest author photo” ever and the man behind the iconic photo, Shel Silverstein At about 4:15, Brad reflects on formative and transformative writers and texts At about 6:15, Brad posits the perfect book length  At about 7:20, Brad reflects on Chris McCandless and Into the Wild At about 9:00, Pete cites On the Road in asking Brad about texts that deal with mysticism and philosophy and search for meaning, which prompts Brad to talk about the importance of the Beat writers and Transcendentalists  At about 14:15, Pete makes a J-Will analogy to the Beats! At about 15:10,  At about 17:25, Brad responds to Pete’s questions about seeds for the podcast, and Brad cites Marc Maron and Terri Gross At about 24:45, Brad evangelizes for the need tío support those who create book media At about 28:50, The two discuss persona and audience feedback and the comedian as writer At about 31:05, Pete remarks on Brad as “infinitely curious” and patient and asks him how patience and curiosity serve him as a writer At about 34:45, Brad talks about the ethos of the podcast and describes its format At about 35:55, Brad discusses Brad and Mira: For the Culture-a “roast”-as “therapeutic” At about 39:35, The two reflect on the power of the episode with Salman Rushdie At about 40:25, Brad responds to Pete’s questions about any surreal experiences in hosting the show At about 42:00, Brad and Pete fanboy over VV Ganeshanthan’s Brotherless Night At about 44:40, Brad outlines his reading process for preparation and reading for pleasure At about 46:20, Brad responds to Pete asking about which episode(s) would serve as a good primer for the show-Brad recommends “The Otherppl 15”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 358 with Daniel Pena, Daniel Peña is a Pushcart Prize-winning writer and Associate Professor of Creative Writing.  Formerly, he was based out of the UNAM in Mexico City where he worked as Fulbright-Garcia Robles Scholar, his writing has appeared in Ploughshares, The Rumpus, the Kenyon Review, Texas Monthly, NBC News, and The New York Times Magazine among  other venues. He’s currently a regular contributor to the Guardian and the Ploughshares blog. His debut collection of essays, HOW TO LOOK AWAY is out now from One World books.    The episode airs on October 6, Pub Day for How to Look Away.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to David Naimon’s Work     David Naimon is a writer and host of the literary podcast Between the Covers. His writing is published widely, from Orion magazine to Tin House. It has garnered a Pushcart Prize and been reprinted in Best American Science & Nature Writing, Best Spiritual Literature, and The Best Small Fictions anthology. He is also the co-author, with Ursula K. Le Guin, of Ursula K. Le Guin: Conversations on Writing. Between the Covers is his long-running podcast.   Listen to Between the Covers   David Naimon's Biography   At about 2:40, David responds to Pete’s questions about his early reading and writing, and a pivotal decision in high school At about 5:30, David talks about reading Crime and Punishment as an "existential moment” At about 6:55, David reflects on his contemporary reading versus his past history of reading  At about 8:30, Pete references David’s employment history, as laid out in an article by Kylie, and David explains his process in moving from medicine to hosting At about 10:50, David responds to Pete’s questions about political bents among his previous medical colleagues  At about 15:10, David talks about some writers and texts who have thrilled and inspired him, homing in on Ursula LeGuin’s more obscure/unknown works At about 17:30, David traces the way his guests rounded out, genre-wise, as his podcast aged At about 19:50, David recommends works by the great Anthony Doerr, an early guest of David’s on Between the Covers At about 20:40, Pete asks David about how reading for the podcast has affected the way he reads  At about 23:15, Pete reflects on the same above question, and highlights Rachel Khong and Wright Thompson’s tear-inducing work At about 24:45, David brings up the incredibly-keen point about high emotions felt over art while on airplanes At about 26:20, David wrestles with how he describes the podcast At about 30:10, Pete highlights a recent episode with Valeria Luiselli and its power and variety and intimacy  At about 33:00, Pete asks David if and how he sees himself as a “critic” At about 36:30, Pete highlights David’s interview style, and David discusses his “mini essays” and the ways in he approaches his questioning  At about 39:45, Pete talks about the options for listeners At about 40:25, David responds to Pete’s questions about his reading/annotation process, as he and Pete agree on their general styles and bookmarking At about 41:50, The two discuss the commerce and creativity balance in literary podcasting At about 48:50, Pete and David discuss the surreal moments in interviewing some of their favorite writers At about 52:15, Pete and David fanboy over Tobias Wolff and  At about 54:00, David explains the history of Between the Covers, both the title and the continuing shows  At about 55:50, David outlines episodes with Dionne Brand “Nomenclature” and Jorie Graham “Runaway” as good “entryways” to the ethos of the podcast At about 57:10, David talks about his association with Milkweed and ways in which to listen to Between the Covers At about 59:45, David talks about future plans      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 357 with Brad Listi, the author of the novel Be Brief and Tell Them Everything (Ig Publishing / May 2022). His other books include the novel Attention. Deficit. Disorder., an LA Times bestseller, and Board, a work of nonfiction collage, co-authored with Justin Benton. In 2011 he launched the Otherppl podcast, one of the longest-running literary interview podcasts in the world. It features in-depth interviews with today's leading authors. He is also the founder of DeepDive, a digital learning platform that creates in-depth audio courses.    The episode airs on October 6 or 7.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.