Defending Against NTLM Relay Attacks with Rohit Mothe and George Hughey

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Marco Ivaldi, co-founder and technical director of HN Security, a boutique company specializing in offensive security services, shares his journey from hacking as a teenager in the '80s to becoming a key figure in the security research community. With nearly three decades of experience in cybersecurity, Marco digs into the ongoing challenges, particularly in Active Directory and password security, highlighting vulnerabilities that continue to pose significant risks today. He recounts his unexpected path into bug bounty hunting, including his involvement in Microsoft's Zero Day Quest and his passion for auditing real-time operating systems like Azure RTOS.  In This Episode You Will Learn:  How Marco taught himself BASIC and assembly through cassette tapes and trips to local libraries Why mentorship and positive leadership can catapult your cybersecurity career When measuring network response times can unintentionally leak valuable info Some Questions We Ask: Do you remember the first time you made code do something unexpected? What was your experience like in the Zero Day Quest building for those three days? How are you thinking of approaching fuzzing after Zero Day Quest?      Resources:      View Marco Ivaldi on LinkedIn    View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn  HN SECURITY Learn More About Marco   Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks     Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Dhiral Patel, Senior Security Engineer at ZoomInfo and one of MSRC’s Most Valuable Researchers (MVR). Dhiral shares how a hacked Facebook account sparked his passion for ethical hacking. From web development to penetration testing, Dhiral has become a top bug hunter, landing multiple spots on the MSRC leaderboards. Dhiral reflects on his early MSRC submissions and lessons learned. He also discusses the importance of mastering web security basics, practicing on platforms like TryHackMe and Hack the Box, and staying connected with the bug bounty community.  In This Episode You Will Learn:  The importance of mastering web security basics before diving into bug bounty hunting Why hands-on platforms like TryHackMe and Hack the Box are perfect for beginners Dhiral’s journey from blogging to freelancing and security research Some Questions We Ask: How do you balance competition and collaboration in the bug bounty community? Can you explain what clickjacking is and if it still works today? Why did you start with Power BI, and how did it lead to your journey in security?    Resources:      View Dhiral Patel on LinkedIn   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks   Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by security researcher Tobias Diehl, a top contributor to the Microsoft Security Research Center (MSRC) leaderboards and a Most Valuable Researcher. Tobias shares his journey from IT support to uncovering vulnerabilities in Microsoft products. He discusses his participation in the upcoming Zero Day Quest hacking challenge and breaks down a recent discovery involving Power Automate, where he identified a security flaw that could be exploited via malicious URLs. Tobias explains how developers can mitigate such risks and the importance of strong proof-of-concept submissions in security research.  In This Episode You Will Learn:  Researching vulnerabilities in Power Automate, Power Automate Desktop, and Azure The importance of user prompts to prevent unintended application behavior Key vulnerabilities Tobias looks for when researching Microsoft products Some Questions We Ask: Have you submitted any AI-related findings to Microsoft or other bug bounty programs? How does the lack of visibility into AI models impact the research process? Has your approach to security research changed when working with AI versus traditional systems?    Resources:      View Tobias Diehl on LinkedIn   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn  Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks   Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts   The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Brad Schlintz, independent security researcher and bug bounty hunter. Brad shares how he transitioned from a decade-long career as a software engineer to hacking Microsoft products while traveling the world with his wife. He recounts his early days tinkering with RuneScape bots, his experience working in SharePoint and Azure at Microsoft, and the moment he first encountered a real-world cybersecurity incident. He also discusses his journey into ethical hacking and his qualification for the upcoming Zero Day Quest, showcasing how he turned bug hunting into a lifestyle that allows him to work from anywhere—including a stunning island in Brazil.      In This Episode You Will Learn:     How a single discovered bug can lead to finding multiple vulnerabilities in the same area  The importance of exploring app integrations when searching for security vulnerabilities  Why building on prior discoveries can make it easier to uncover more hidden security issues    Some Questions We Ask:    What guidance can you share with other researchers and hackers on how to find vulnerabilities?  Why did your background in software engineering help you in your bug bounty work?  How did you transition from working on the website incident to more full-time security research?      Resources:       View Brad Schlintz on LinkedIn     View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn      Related Microsoft Podcasts:       Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks          Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts      The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, Nic and Wendy are joined by seasoned security researcher, and CTO of Morphisec, Michael Gorelik. Michael discusses his approach to security research, which often begins by exploring PoCs released by other researcher groups and continues through to the release and validation of – sometimes multiple rounds of – fixes. Michael also provides an overview of this BlueHat 2024 presentation from last October and discusses his upcoming participation in the Zero Day Quest Onsite Hacking Challenge.      In This Episode You Will Learn:     How Michael Gorelik transitioned from security researcher to company founder  Deeper motivations driving ethical hackers like Michael Gorelik beyond money  The importance of identifying incomplete security patches before attackers do    Some Questions We Ask:    What are you looking forward to with Zero Day Quest?  Did you have a moral dilemma about hacking when you were younger?  What was your experience like at Deutsche Telekom Laboratories?      Resources:       View Michael Gorelik on LinkedIn    View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn      Related Microsoft Podcasts:       Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks          Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts    The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, host Nic Fillingham is joined by Scott Gorlick, Security Architect for Power Platform at Microsoft. Scott shares his unconventional journey into cybersecurity, from managing a KFC to driving big rigs before landing in tech. He dives into security research in Copilot Studio, discussing how AI models interact with security frameworks and how researchers can approach testing these systems. We also explore his recent training video on YouTube, which provides guidance for security researchers looking to engage with Microsoft’s bug bounty program.    In This Episode You Will Learn:     What Scott does to ensure Power Platform applications remain governable and secure  Why security and software quality go hand in hand in modern development.  How security researchers can explore vulnerabilities in Microsoft's low-code AI development platform    Some Questions We Ask:    What kinds of security issues should researchers focus on in Copilot Studio?  Can Copilot help researchers write better reports, especially in different languages?  How can researchers get access to Copilot Studio? Is there a free version?         Resources:       View Scott Gorlick on LinkedIn    View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn     Security Research in Copilot Studio Overview and Training on YouTube    Related Microsoft Podcasts:       Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks          Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by Jason Geffner, Principal Security Architect at Microsoft, to discuss his groundbreaking work on scaling and automating Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST). Following on from his BlueHat 2024 session, and outlined in this MSRC blog post, Jason explains the key differences between DAST, SAST, and IAST, and dives into the challenges of scaling DAST at Microsoft’s enterprise level, detailing how automation eliminates manual configuration and improves efficiency for web service testing.     In This Episode You Will Learn:     Overcoming the challenges of authenticated requests for DAST tools  The importance of API specs for DAST and how automation streamlines the process  Insights into how Microsoft uses DAST to protect its vast array of web services    Some Questions We Ask:    What's a lesson from this work that you can share with those without Microsoft's resources?  Can you explain what the transparent auth protocol is that you mentioned in the blog post?  How is your work reducing the manual effort needed to configure DAST system services?     Resources:       View Jason Geffner on LinkedIn    View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn     Related Blog Post: Scaling Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) | MSRC Blog  Related BlueHat Session Recording: BlueHat 2024: S10: How Microsoft is Scaling DAST     Related Microsoft Podcasts:       Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks          Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone are joined by BlueHat 2024 presenter Joe Bialek, a security engineer at Microsoft with over 13 years of experience. Joe shares his fascinating journey from intern to red team pioneer, recounting how he helped establish the Office 365 Red Team and pushed the boundaries of ethical hacking within Microsoft. He discusses his formative years building sneaky hacking tools, navigating the controversial beginnings of red teaming, and transitioning to the Windows Security Team to focus on low-level security and mitigations. Joe reflects on the challenges of internal hacking, the human reactions to being "hacked," and the value of strengthening defenses before external threats arise.    In This Episode You Will Learn:     How Microsoft is developing tooling to identify and address bad programming patterns  Why kernel-related discussions are primarily focused on Windows and driver developers  The challenges developers face when reading and writing through pointers in C or C++    Some Questions We Ask:    How does working with the Windows kernel impact system security and performance?  What sets Windows kernel and driver development apart from other types of development?  Why should internal teams test systems for vulnerabilities before external hackers?      Resources:       View Joe Bialek on LinkedIn   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn     BlueHat 2024 Session: Pointer Problems – Why We’re Refactoring the Windows Kernel    Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks        Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts    The BlueHat Podcast is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of N2K media network.

In this episode of The BlueHat Podcast, hosts Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone welcome back George Hughey and Rohit Mothe from the Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) to discuss their latest blog post on mitigating NTLM relay attacks by default. George and Rohit explain their roles in vulnerability hunting and delve into NTLM, a 40-year-old authentication protocol, outlining its vulnerabilities and the risks of relay attacks, which function as a type of man-in-the-middle exploit. They highlight Microsoft's move to a "secure by default" approach, ensuring mitigations like channel binding are enabled automatically, providing stronger protections across services like Exchange, Active Directory Certificate Services (ADCS), and LDAP.     In This Episode You Will Learn:     Steps users can take to enhance security in their environments  Why legacy protocols remain a challenge and what the future might hold  The challenges and successes of improving authentication security      Some Questions We Ask:  What is an NTLM relay attack, and how does it work?  Can you explain channel binding and its role in preventing NTLM relay attacks?  What challenges arise from modernizing authentication in complex environments?         Resources:       View George Hughey on LinkedIn   View Rohit Mothe on LinkedIn   View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn    View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn      Related Microsoft Podcasts:       Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast    Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson    Uncovering Hidden Risks          Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts

Yonatan Zunger, CVP of AI Safety & Security at Microsoft joins Nic Fillingham and Wendy Zenone on this week's episode of The BlueHat Podcast. Yonatan explains the distinction between generative and predictive AI, noting that while predictive AI excels in classification and recommendation, generative AI focuses on summarizing and role-playing. He highlights how generative AI's ability to process natural language and role-play has vast potential, though its applications are still emerging. He contrasts this with predictive AI's strength in handling large datasets for specific tasks. Yonatan emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations in AI development, stressing the need for continuous safety engineering and diverse perspectives to anticipate and mitigate potential failures. He provides examples of AI's positive and negative uses, illustrating the importance of designing systems that account for various scenarios and potential misuses.      In This Episode You Will Learn:       How predictive AI anticipates outcomes based on historical data  The difficulties and strategies involved in making AI systems safe and secure from misuse  How role-playing exercises help developers understand the behavior of AI systems    Some Questions We Ask:        What distinguishes predictive AI from generative AI?  Can generative AI be used to improve decision-making processes?  What is the role of unit testing and test cases in policy and AI system development?    Resources:   View Yonatan Zunger on LinkedIn      View Wendy Zenone on LinkedIn   View Nic Fillingham on LinkedIn    Related Microsoft Podcasts:     Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson   Uncovering Hidden Risks       Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts