What if the Government Believes in U.F.O.s More Than You Do?

Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn.00:25 How liberalism became “uncertain and exhausted”08:37 The void in the Democratic Party12:21 Does progressive despair lead to radicalism?15:04 “Violence is contagious"19:24 Can the left be more malleable?28:20 The hippies, Peter Thiel and technology32:11 Does the American left need cosmic hope?41:59 A vision of the “good life”Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

In moments of political shock and horror, where can we turn? Ross was supposed to interview Charlie Kirk next month for the show and now offers his reflections on Kirk, his political movement and his assassination.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water.01:44 - “A life full of ease and beauty”05:30 - Rule by engineers11:00 - China’s Technological Mastery16:04 - Is autocracy driving innovation?25:00 - What are the real stakes of the competition?35:47 - How could China fail? 53:00 - Advice for America(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

While “Interesting Times” is on vacation, we’re sharing a conversation from “The Opinions” between Meher Ahmad, an editor for Times Opinion, and the Opinion writer Jessica Grose. They talk about the aesthetics of MAGA women — think Kristi Noem and Nancy Mace — and what they signal about femininity and power within the Republican Party. Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters.02:39 - Trump: man of destiny?19:55 - Political power, cruelty and Godliness36:13 - Religion and spirituality in the modern world42:53 - The mysteries of the universe…48:38 - Aliens! Fairies! (and some Catholic history)56:51 - Contending with uncertainty and evil1:05:24 - Psychedelic experiences1:20:56 - Official knowledge1:38:58 - Book recommendationsThoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader?This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.”3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 46:29 - The mystical element of our politicsThoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Would you use an algorithm to select your embryos? Enter Orchid, a company that promises parents the ability to protect their future children through genetic testing for embryos before pregnancy. The founder, Noor Siddiqui, and Ross debate the scientific, moral and ethical implications of designing a “healthy” child and what we lose in separating reproduction from sex.01:27 - Orchid’s vision04:59- The process and benefits17:20 - Noor explains why Orchid was developed22:00- Criticism and skepticism around genetic screening36:21 - Does IVF need to change?44:00 - “The moral status of the embryo”53:36 - How does this technology change us?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Does America have a moral obligation to the world? The former Department of Government Efficiency staffer Jeremy Lewin, now deputy administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, explains how he is implementing President Trump’s foreign aid philosophy and what it means for humanitarian assistance going forward.01:59 - From the private sector to interviewing with Elon Musk09:18 - The rapid restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.19:44 - Lewin’s critiques of U.S.A.I.D.’s focus25:15 - The most controversial cuts: humanitarian aid 29:50 - America’s interests first, values-based interests second40:14 - What is the future vision for foreign aid?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”45:38 - Disclosure52:51 - “Amazing.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.  Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Julie K. Brown thinks Jeffrey Epstein didn’t act alone. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Brown, the investigative reporter whose work ultimately led to Epstein’s re-arrest, about what the government could release that it hasn’t and how the story is bigger than Epstein.2:32 - Brown's initial interest in the Epstein case5:26 - Discovering Epstein's crimes and the plea deal13:13 - Epstein's victims and the impact of Brown's reporting18:20 - Epstein's wealth and connections25:20 - Epstein's social circles35:01 - Certainty and unsolved mysteries45:25 - The role of government in the case51:04 - Trump and the political fallout(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.