🎙️ Transforming Systems, Not Just Souls — with Dr. Kurt Ver Beek

Where baseball, family, and democracy meet — Mike Madrid reminds us what’s worth fighting for in America. If you didn't catch our most recent conversation with friend of the pod, Mike Madrid, well... where were ya? We recorded this one right around July 4th and it's still on point! What'd ya expect with the brilliant Mike Madrid?!?! So join us in welcoming back political consultant, author, and Substack contributor Mike Madrid. A renowned expert on Latino voters and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Mike brings his profound insights on American politics, identity, and democracy. Together, Corey and Mike explore deeply personal stories, historical context, and present-day political dynamics, all while weaving in the emotional fabric that connects generations and communities. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion What We Discuss: The significance of personal and familial stories in shaping political perspective How Latino voters are reshaping American democracy The danger of authoritarian tendencies in U.S. governance Economic populism across ideological divides The importance of understanding and communicating with working-class communities Episode Highlights: [00:04:00] Mike Madrid shares a personal story of grief and connection through a pilgrimage to Madrid, New Mexico [00:08:00] Baseball as a bridge between generations and its deeper cultural significance [00:14:00] Inhumane immigration enforcement and its implications on American identity [00:22:00] A discussion on whether America is at a turning point for its soul and values [00:33:00] Vertical balance of power: Newsom vs. federal overreach in L.A. protests [00:45:00] Latino voters' top concerns: economy, housing, and healthcare [00:53:00] Economic populism through Ruben Gallego and Zoran Mamdani's campaigns [01:03:00] How to talk about politics and religion without killin' each other Featured Quotes: "Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves matter more than the facts we can verify." – Mike Madrid "This is our American story now. This is who we are... and if we're not speaking out, then we are individually complicit in it." – Mike Madrid "These are the moments when character is defined." – Mike Madrid "The best way to talk about politics and religion is to not talk about it through the lens of politics and religion." – Mike Madrid Resources Mentioned: Mike Madrid's Substack: The Great Transformation – greattransformation.substack.com The Latino Century (book by Mike Madrid) – www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Latino-Century/Mike-Madrid/9781668015278 Latino Vote Podcast – latinos.vote Reflections on Marines in LA by Roger Herbert – rogerherbert.substack.com/p/reflections-on-marines-in-la 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Substack Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook TikTok 🎙️ Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud to be members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

“The North Star is the truth. Tell it. And if you can’t, explain why.” — Col. David Lapan (Ret.) We had the distinct honor of sitting down with Colonel David Lapan, retired Marine and former spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, Secretaries of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In a wide-ranging, timely conversation, Colonel Lapan unpacks the critical balance between national security and democratic accountability, the dangers of politicizing the military, and how press freedom strengthens—not weakens—our institutions. We delve into his 30+ years of military service, his pivotal role in launching the media embed program during the Iraq War, and why he left DHS during the Trump administration. Lapan also shares pointed thoughts on recent efforts to restrict Pentagon press access and the implications of political theater in national defense. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Key Topics: [00:00:00] Intro to Colonel David Lapan and the state of hockey 🏒 [00:04:00] From college dropout to enlisted Marine to colonel [00:07:00] Journalism roots and shift into public affairs [00:09:00] Inside the Pentagon pre- and post-9/11 [00:12:00] Designing the media embed program for Iraq [00:16:00] Why press transparency during war matters [00:23:00] Serving as press secretary under Secretary John Kelly at DHS [00:27:00] Why Lapan resigned: integrity vs. political pressure [00:34:00] What “tell the truth” means in government service [00:38:00] Recent restrictions on Pentagon press corps [00:47:00] Defending the First Amendment in uniform [00:56:00] Critiquing the theater of recent military briefings [01:03:00] The risks of poorly trained federal agents [01:06:00] How polarization affects veterans and service members [01:09:00] Final thoughts: can we still talk across differences? 🧠 Key Takeaways: Truth Above All: “The North Star is the truth” is not just a slogan—it's a standard for ethical public service. Press Isn’t the Enemy: Limiting access and controlling narratives damages democracy and military credibility. Political Theater Has Real Costs: Grandstanding undermines military readiness and public trust. Good People, Hard Choices: Many principled professionals served during the Trump administration—and some had to walk away. Courage Comes in Many Forms: Sometimes that means resisting pressure to spin or mislead. 💬 Notable Quotes: “Being a Marine doesn’t mean shutting up—it means standing up for what’s right.” — Col. David Lapan “We’ve defended the Constitution our whole lives. Now we’re watching it be trampled from within.” — Col. David Lapan “Reporters aren’t the problem. Lack of transparency is.” — Col. David Lapan “You don't protect the country by hiding the truth from its people.” — Col. David Lapan   🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Substack Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook TikTok 🎙️ Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud to be members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Surviving Triangulation in a Polarized World It's time to reckon with one of the toughest questions in our current public discourse: “How can you think that?” Through stories from his personal and professional life, host Corey Nathan unpacks the emotionally draining phenomenon of triangulation—when we’re caught in the middle of opposing viewpoints—and explores how we can respond with curiosity and conviction without losing our sanity. From navigating impossible conversations to confronting conspiracy theories (like the FBI staging Jan. 6?!), Corey challenges listeners to stay in tough conversations while guarding their own well-being. Drawing inspiration from a powerful essay by Christopher Armitage on The Existentialist Republic, this episode dives into the psychology of belief, the cost of defection from "reality bubbles," and the quiet strength of one-degree influence. Whether you're a peacemaker, bridge-builder, or just trying to keep your sanity in polarized times, this one’s for you. 🙏 📣 Calls to Action ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Topics [00:00:00] 🎧 Intro: What drives Corey bananas? Triangulation! [00:01:30] What triangulation really looks like in everyday life [00:03:00] Caught in the crossfire: The emotional toll of being “the middle guy” [00:05:00] 🤯 “How can you think that?” — when conspiracy logic collapses [00:08:00] Discovering The Existentialist Republic and its insights [00:10:00] Armitage on why people cling to destructive systems [00:12:00] Humility, bubbles, and the danger of total delegitimization [00:13:30] 💬 “Not much. But not nothing.” — The power of one degree [00:15:00] Living in the age of triangulation without losing your soul 🧠 Key Takeaways Triangulation Hurts: Being the middle person between two polarized groups can feel like being dragged into an emotional war. The Power of Presence: Staying in relationship—even with those we disagree with—gives us the chance to be heard and to listen. One-Degree Influence Matters: A single thoughtful question can shift someone’s perspective more than a thousand arguments. Belief Systems Are Sticky: It’s costly—psychologically and socially—for people to change their minds, especially within closed systems. Stay Gentle, Stay Grounded: Keep showing up with love, humility, and curiosity. That’s how change begins. 📖 Bonus Reading The Existentialist Republic: cmarmitage.substack.com 🔗 Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

"If we lived in the poorest, most dangerous neighborhoods, we’d understand better how to love and serve." — Dr. Kurt Ver Beek It was great to sit down with Dr. Kurt Ver Beek, co-founder of the Association for a More Just Society (ASJ), who has lived and worked in Honduras for nearly four decades. From battling systemic corruption to reducing the homicide rate in one of the world’s most dangerous communities, Kurt shares a riveting account of faith in action and public justice rooted in Christian conviction. We explore the difference between traditional missionary work and systemic transformation, how theological frameworks can drive bold action, and why brave Christianity is needed now more than ever. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Key Topics: [00:00:00] Introduction to Dr. Kurt Ver Beek and ASJ [00:01:00] Childhood influences: Christian values and political curiosity [00:04:00] Faith formation and a growing “allergy” to injustice [00:08:00] Moving beyond charity to systemic change [00:14:00] What it really means to "help the poor" [00:23:00] Corruption, extortion, and the story of a neighborhood pillow maker [00:29:00] How three hired staff helped significantly reduce local homicides [00:34:00] Raising funds for justice: why it’s not as hard as people think [00:40:00] Theology of safety vs. theology of love and proximity [00:47:00] Political influence without being politically compromised [00:53:00] From 113 to 218 school days: measurable education reform [01:00:00] What we can do: curiosity, courage, and conversation [01:02:00] Practicing politics and faith with gentleness and respect 🧠 Key Takeaways: Systemic Change Is Possible: Justice doesn't always take decades. Hiring an ex-cop and a lawyer helped reduce homicides dramatically. Faith Isn’t Just About Sundays: Living out the Gospel means transforming systems that harm the vulnerable. Corruption and Violence Are Addressable: Real change can happen when Christians take bold, strategic action. Don’t Underestimate Funders: Donors care about results — and systemic justice produces them. Bravery Is Biblical: The call to be brave Christians isn’t optional — it’s essential. 💬 Notable Quotes: “Being a Christian doesn't have to look like what many young people see today.” — Kurt Ver Beek “The lie is that systemic change is too hard — it’s not. It just takes brave Christians.” — Kurt Ver Beek “No place in the Bible does it say to be safe. It says to love your neighbor.” — Kurt Ver Beek “Be curious. Listen better. People aren't as crazy as you think.” — Kurt Ver Beek 📚 Mentioned Books and Resources: 📖 Call for Justice by Kurt Ver Beek & Nicholas Wolterstorff 📘 Bear Witness by Ross Halpern – (Kurt says it’s “90% on the money!”) 🌐 Learn more about ASJ: asj-us.org 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. ✌️🙏

A candid reflection on staying grounded while engaging in contentious conversations—and when to take a step back. ✨ Episode Summary In this heartfelt solo talk, host Corey Nathan goes back to the fundamentals of Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other. Reflecting on recent emotionally charged interactions—some painfully personal—Corey revisits five foundational principles that guide his conversations and this podcast’s mission. He opens up about the emotional toll of receiving attacks from opposing sides of the political and religious spectrum and how even with years of practice, the work of engaging respectfully remains challenging and ongoing. Here are the five essentials Corey leans into when the temperature rises: 👉 Practice what you preach 👉 Contest or conversation? Know the difference. 👉 Articulate others’ views well. 👉 Sometimes, take it offline. 👉 Know when to walk away. This isn’t just theory—it’s a personal reckoning, with honesty, humility, and yes, some humor too.  📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Topics [00:00:00] 🎧 Intro: Hockey talk, Rangers vs. Kings, and a shout-out to The Democracy Group [00:02:00] Recent conversations that challenged Corey’s peace and patience [00:03:00] On being attacked by voices from both extremes of the Israel-Gaza conflict [00:06:00] Recognizing how giving space to others can draw heat—sometimes from all sides [00:07:30] The emotional cost of staying in these conversations [00:08:00] Going “Back to Basics”: Five principles to guide tough discussions [00:09:00] #1: Practice what you preach—even when it’s hard [00:10:00] #2: Contest or conversation? Choose wisely. [00:12:00] #3: Articulate others’ views honestly, even when you disagree [00:14:00] #4: Sometimes take it offline to preserve dignity and connection [00:17:00] #5: Know when to walk away—because not everyone deserves your time [00:20:00] Closing: Still learning, still growing, still hoping for peace 🧠 Key Takeaways See Other's Humanity: Engage with people as individuals, not as representatives of an ideology. Not Every Fight is Worth Fighting: Sometimes, disengagement is a form of self-care and wisdom. Curiosity Builds Bridges: Ask real questions. Seek understanding, not just rebuttals. There’s Power in Saying “No More”: Knowing your limits is an act of strength, not weakness. The Work is Ongoing: This isn’t about perfection—it’s about commitment to grow and do better. 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Exploring how Christian conviction and civic love — inspired by the faith of Willie Faye and Mahalia Jackson’s generation — can transcend political tribalism. 🔥 Episode Summary Grateful to welcome Justin Giboney, an ordained minister, attorney, and co-founder of the AND Campaign. Justin shares his faith journey, the genesis of the AND Campaign, and his new book, Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us Out of the Culture War. Together, we explore how faith can ground political engagement, challenge tribalism, and offer a better way forward rooted in compassion, conviction, and moral imagination. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Key Topics [00:00:00] Intro to the show and our guest Justin E. Giboney [00:01:00] Justin’s background: faith, family, football, and public life [00:03:00] Raising three boys in Georgia and coaching youth football 🏈 [00:04:00] Justin’s college years at Vanderbilt and struggles with faith [00:06:00] Returning to faith and the influence of family, especially Willie Faye [00:08:00] Learning from personal crossroads: sports injury, law, and political work [00:10:00] Beginning the AND Campaign: from political activism to movement leadership [00:13:00] The legacy of the Civil Rights era and moral imagination [00:16:00] Political tribalism, Christian engagement, and party alignment [00:22:00] Core principles of the AND Campaign and engaging as a faithful Christian [00:25:00] Civic pluralism: persuading without imposing faith [00:27:00] Importance of relationships over culture war ideology [00:34:00] Honest critiques of progressivism and conservatism [00:43:00] Addiction to outrage and the loss of moral clarity [00:51:00] Opposition-centered engagement and political virtue signaling [00:56:00] Final thoughts on leadership, truth, and compassion 🧠 Key Takeaways Faith Requires Courage: Being a faithful Christian in the public square demands moral clarity, humility, and the ability to stand apart from political allegiances. Reject Political Tribalism: Christians must transcend party lines and speak truth to power, even to their own political "side." Moral Imagination Is Essential: The ability to imagine what ought to be—especially in times of conflict—is the key to compassionate and just civic engagement. Civil Rights Generation as a Model: Justin draws inspiration from the faith, resilience, and clarity of leaders like his grandmother Willie Faye and Mahalia Jackson. Opposition-Centered Engagement is Toxic: Defining oneself solely by opposition to the "other side" leads to shallow, reactive politics. 💬 Notable Quotes “Discipleship isn’t easy—and loving your neighbor especially when it’s hard, is where the Gospel really comes alive.” — Justin Giboney “If the Civil Rights generation could love their enemies with hoses and bombs aimed at them, we can love ours with tweets and outrage.” — Justin Giboney “True leadership today means turning around and telling your side what it needs to do better.” — Justin Giboney 📚 Featured Book Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us Out of the Culture War - www.ivpress.com/don-t-let-nobody-turn-you-around 🗓️ Coming November 4, 2025 🔗 Connect with Justin Giboney 📸 Instagram: @justinegiboney 🐦 X (Twitter): @justinegiboney 🎧 Podcast: Church Politics 🌐 AND Campaign: andcampaign.org 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Substack Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

A raw look at which relationships and conversations are worth our time—and when to just say f* it. ✨ Episode Summary In this candid, off-the-cuff talk, Corey wrestles with a series of deeply personal and philosophical questions that lie at the heart of this progam’s mission: 👉 Which conversations are worth pursuing? 👉 Which relationships are worth nurturing? 👉 And at what point should we walk away for the sake of our own peace—and the greater good? From fielding scriptural "shard attacks" for using colorful language to being targeted with assumptions rooted in ignorance and bigotry, Corey lays bare some inner conflicts with vulnerability, humor, and, yes, a few well-placed f-bombs. This isn't just an airing of grievances—it's an invitation to reflect on how we can all be fountains, not drains in a world sorely in need of healing. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ⏱️ Timestamps & Topics [00:00:00] Intro, shout-out to Substack community & podcast housekeeping [00:02:00] ⚾ Quick tangent: Brooklyn Cyclones, Mets fandom, and hope for the future [00:03:00] Opening big questions: What convos and relationships are worth it? [00:04:00] Story #1: Being called out for cursing—and Corey's take on "Christian language policing" [00:07:00] Righteous anger, proof-texting, and weaponizing Scripture [00:09:00] Story #2: Encountering prejudice disguised as critique [00:12:00] Recounting meaningful dialogue with Lisa Sharon Harper as a contrast [00:14:00] Deep pain, generational trauma, and the erasure of Jewish identity [00:17:00] Hatefulness vs. ignorance—where do we draw the line? [00:18:30] Who gets to be in the “cool kids club” of social justice discourse? [00:19:30] Questions to the audience: Are we fountains or drains in this world? [00:20:00] Final thoughts: Owning the heat, seeking feedback, and doing better 🧠 Key Takeaways Language vs. Intent: A well-placed curse word shouldn’t overshadow a meaningful, vulnerable message. Weaponizing Scripture: Proof-texting undermines the depth and context of sacred texts—and can be deeply harmful. Bigotry in Disguise: Assumptions based on skin tone or identity reduce complex histories and humanity to dangerous stereotypes. Be a Fountain, Not a Drain: Ask yourself—are your words and actions contributing to tikkun olam (repairing the world), or draining its soul? Not Every Battle is Yours: Sometimes walking away is an act of wisdom and self-preservation, not cowardice. 📖 Bonus Reading Proverbs 31 vs Proverbs 27: Woman of valor or dripping faucet? Decide for yourself. George Washington’s Farewell Address: Surprisingly prophetic in its warnings about factionalism. Tikkun Olam: Explore the Jewish concept of repairing the world and how it applies to today’s discourse. 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Why defending viewpoint diversity might be the most radical—and necessary—act in higher education today. 🎧 Episode Summary What a treat to welcome two leading voices in the fight for viewpoint diversity and constructive civic dialogue: Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at Brookings and author of The Constitution of Knowledge, and Liz Joyner, founder of The Village Square. As board members of Heterodox Academy (HxA), Jon and Liz unpack the organization’s mission to restore open inquiry and truth-seeking within higher education—and how these values are essential to preserving our democracy at large. With personal stories, sharp analysis, and even a few laughs, they explore what we each can do to counter the ecosystem of illiberalism and strengthen the social fabric. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion 🕰️ Timestamps & Topics [00:00:00] Intro: What’s broken in our democracy and how we fix it [00:01:00] Meet the guests: Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner [00:03:00] What is Heterodox Academy and how did it begin? [00:06:00] Rauch on early signs of "wokeness" and Kindly Inquisitors [00:08:00] Joyner’s grassroots experience with ideological diversity at Village Square [00:10:00] The "ecosystem of illiberalism" and why liberal principles matter [00:15:00] Can HxA help defend against external political coercion? [00:20:00] Are we headed toward institutional collapse or renewal? [00:25:00] Speech vs. coercion: The cultural and legal frontlines [00:33:00] Personal costs of speaking out: Corey’s Chappelle story [00:36:00] What should institutions do to defend free speech? [00:39:00] On the Trump administration’s authoritarian tactics [00:45:00] Fears for 2026 and 2028 elections [00:48:00] Signs of progress: Academic reform, FIRE, and HxA programs [00:54:00] How to break the cycle of intolerance [00:56:00] How do we actually talk to people who disagree? [01:01:00] "Love people back into communion with liberalism" [01:08:00] The local vs. national divide—learning from LA’s fires & ICE raids [01:14:00] Final reflections: Reclaiming truth, curiosity, and compassion 💡 Key Takeaways Liberalism needs defenders: Jon reminds us that truth-seeking demands criticism—and that “criticism hurts, but it’s necessary.” Civic spaces matter: Liz underscores the importance of local, respectful dialogue and building trust before crisis hits. The ecosystem is the problem: Illiberalism isn't coming from just one side; it’s a reactive spiral we must all help disrupt. Institutions must hold firm: It's not disagreement that's dangerous—it's coercion by powerful entities that silence dissent. Each of us has a role: From book clubs to coffee shops, we can all “love people back into communion with liberalism.” 🧠 Notable Quotes 🗣️ “We are better together. A diverse people can self-govern—if we protect the institutions that help us do so.” – Liz Joyner 🧠 “If I’m talking, I’m not learning. If I’m listening, I probably am.” – Jonathan Rauch ❤️ “What I’d like you to talk about today is how we can love people back into communion with liberalism.” – Quoting Jonathan V. Last (via Liz Joyner) 🔗 Resources & Mentions Heterodox Academy - heterodoxacademy.org The Constitution of Knowledge - www.brookings.edu/books/the-constitution-of-knowledge Village Square - villagesquare.us Kindly Inquisitors - press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/K/bo18140749.html A University the World Has Never Seen- heterodoxacademy.substack.com/p/a-university-the-world-has-never Jonathan Rauch- jonathanrauch.typepad.com 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

In times of national tragedy, can we resist the urge to turn our grief into political ammo? Sadly, our current leaders can't seem to find their better angels. So who's gonna do the right thing? 🧭 Episode Summary Fair warning: Your trusty friend and host is a little hot under the collar on this one. We're addressing the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and the toxic political blame game that followed. Corey dismantles the knee-jerk scapegoating by political leaders—particularly from the Trump administration—and calls for a return to civility, empathy, and individual responsibility. Drawing inspiration from great American leaders such as Lincoln, Douglass, MLK, Reagan, and Jack Kemp, Corey urges listeners to rise above the “us vs. them” narrative and engage in meaningful conversations across ideological divides. This isn’t just a podcast—it’s a wake-up call for moral courage and collective healing. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion 🕰️ Timestamps & Highlights Time Topic 00:00 🎙️ Introduction & what's bugging Corey today 01:30 ⚖️ Criticism of current leadership’s divisive rhetoric post-tragedy 03:00 🔥 “They didn’t do it.” – the central thesis 05:30 🧠 Why scapegoating is dangerous and lazy 06:00 🗣️ Quotes from historical leaders on unity 08:00 🙌 Remembering real conservatism and integrity in leadership 10:00 💰 A quick word about sponsor: Meza Wealth Management 11:00 🧍‍♂️ One-on-one conversations > tribal politics 13:00 🧘 Rejecting polarization and choosing relationship over rage 15:00 ❓ How to ask genuine questions without interrogating 17:00 ✡️ Tikkun Olam – the Jewish concept of healing the world 18:00 🧭 Final thoughts: Courage, not cowardice, builds bridges 19:00 🙏 Outro: Feedback, Substack, YouTube, and a call to respectful conversation 💡 Key Takeaways “They didn’t do it”: One person is responsible for a crime—not an entire political party or ideology. Scapegoating is intellectually and morally lazy; real leadership seeks unity, not division. History holds better role models: From Lincoln to Reagan, great leaders have called for reconciliation, not retaliation. Genuine conversations with those who think differently are the antidote to political polarization. Tikkun Olam: We each have a responsibility to repair the world—one action, one conversation at a time. 📢 Notable Quotes 🗨️ “Scapegoating is cowardice. It’s morally and intellectually lazy.” 🗨️ “They didn’t do it. An individual did.” 🗨️ “If grief morphs into blaming anyone who voted differently than you, that’s not mourning—that’s scapegoating.” 🗨️ “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies.” – Abraham Lincoln 🗨️ “Democracy without respect for the dignity of each individual is not democracy at all.” – Jack Kemp 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

What if the role of “pastor’s wife” wasn’t biblical at all, but a cultural invention that sidelined women from ministry? Dr. Beth Allison Barr pulls back the curtain on how power, patriarchy, and politics shaped Evangelical churches—and why reclaiming women’s voices could change everything. Episode Summary So glad to sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr—medievalist, church historian, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor’s Wife—for a candid conversation about faith, history, evangelical subcultures, and women’s leadership in the church. Beth traces how the modern “pastor’s wife” role emerged alongside the decline of women’s ordination, shows how women have always done pastoral work, and offers grounded, hope-filled ways to talk across differences in a volatile moment. 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Timestamps 00:00 — Introductions & context. Beth’s scholarship, books, UK ties; growing up in a Bible-saturated town and how her kids encountered questions of faith earlier than she did. 05:00 — Faith in action vs. attendance. Story of her son choosing hands-on ministry with Mission Waco / Church Under the Bridge and serving the unhoused. 08:00 — History’s ballast in turbulent times. Democracy’s fragility, finding joy, and why she stays to “fight for a country I believe in.” 16:45 — Responding to political violence. Grieving a public figure’s death, fearing the blame game, and the dangers of escalation. 24:00 — Media myths & “those people.” How conspiratorial frames dehumanize. 25:00 — Dobson, MacArthur & evangelical father-figures. The guru dynamic, platformed authority, and downstream damage. 29:00 — Why this book. From Making of Biblical Womanhood to the historical link between pastor’s wives and the decline of women’s ordination. 32:00 — “There are no male pastors in the Bible either.” Pastor as a modern construct; early church roles were gifts and functions, not a job title. 36:30 — Phoebe, Junia & collaborative authorship. The first named deacon tied to a local church is a woman; letters emerged from communities. 41:00 — Power & gatekeeping. Why certain leaders resist change; SBC moments like cutting Rick Warren’s mic. 46:30 — Handling pushback graciously. Ask questions, surface assumptions, adjust tone by relationship. 50:00 — The economics of titles. Same work, different labels → less power and pay; survey showing ~80% of women in official church roles are part-time or unpaid. 53:00 — Does “biblical authority” really forbid women leading? On misusing a few verses vs. the witness of the whole Bible. 57:00 — That cover art 👀. Catherine of Alexandria—the patron saint of preachers—casts a telling shadow. 58:00 — The TP&R Question. See the image of God in each person; start from shared humanity when conversations get heated. 01:01:00 — What’s next. A “freeing” medieval project taking shape. “There are no female pastors in the Bible? There are no male pastors in the Bible either… what we see are people serving in a variety of functions.” Key Takeaways “Pastor” is a gift before it’s a job. In the New Testament it points to shepherding, not a fixed office; early churches named teachers, apostles, deacons—roles women also filled (e.g., Phoebe). Same work, different label. Churches often call women’s pastoral work something else—reducing power and pay. Structural choices, not Scripture, drive much of the disparity. Power protects itself. Resistance to women’s leadership is frequently about protecting positions and rhetoric, not about biblical fidelity. How to engage across differences. Begin with imago Dei; remember hurt often fuels hostility; ask questions that surface assumptions; adjust posture to the relationship. Memorable Quotes “A text without a context is a pretext to say whatever you want.” “Women have done everything men did in the early church—we just renamed their work.” “See the image of God before you see a label.” Resources & Mentions Books: Becoming the Pastor’s Wife — www.bethallisonbarr.com/books/becoming-the-pastors-wife The Making of Biblical Womanhood — www.bethallisonbarr.com/books/the-making-of-biblical-womanhood Substack: Marginalia - bethallisonbarr.substack.com 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The Village Square: villagesquare.us And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨