SBP 250: Why Smart Marketers Keep Falling Into the Same Traps. With Jim Davey.

The best conversation always happens after you stop recording. So this time we kept the mics on. Jim Davey stuck around for the PostPod, which turned a debrief into a bonus third act.Marc and V get into the trap Jim didn’t have time for in the main episode: overreach — not delusion, but a real idea pushed way too far, too fast. (If the tortoises ran Jaws, it’s a seven-minute movie. Marketers are the ones who say “we can get the shark ourselves” and end up needing a bigger boat.) From there: why making something simple is the hardest thing a marketer does, the D-Day decision that explains confirmation bias, “busy is the new stupid,” and the sliced-fruit rebrand story that tells you everything about why change dies in the room.Enjoy the show!Special guest: Jim Davey — Author of Marketing Confessional (out Nov 17); Founder & Principal, Davey Marketing Group; Instructor, Harvard Division of Continuing Education; Adjunct Lecturer, Boston College. Catch the full interview in SBP 250.Chapters00:00 The best conversation is always after the recording00:53 Jim stays on: a PostPod with a special guest01:27 Why the simplest decision is the hardest to make02:58 D-Day, the movie Pressure, and sourcing data to fit the answer you want04:51 The trap we didn't get to: overreach05:50 If the tortoises ran Jaws (and why we need a bigger boat)07:11 Marketers as squirrels, and why effectiveness isn't "fun"08:13 "Busy is the new stupid" and the vicious cycle of more08:50 It takes work to make things simple ("if you can't convince, confuse")09:53 Packing in a rush, and Mark Twain's shorter letter10:14 The standout story: the sliced-fruit rebrand11:42 Merchandiser pull, end-arounds, and "I need my box"13:05 When serving the org becomes self-defeatingThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Ask a room full of marketers about their best campaign and you’ll be there all afternoon. Ask about their worst and the room goes quiet. That silence is where Jim Davey went looking.Jim spent three years interviewing 75 CMOs and marketing leaders under one condition: anonymity. In exchange, they handed over the stories they’d never tell from a conference stage — the launches that tanked a quarter, the rebrands that backfired, the momentum that outran the evidence. The result is his new book, Marketing Confessional, and seven recurring traps that even experienced, intelligent marketers keep walking into.Marc and Vassilis dig into three: the Delusion Trap (when internal momentum takes the place of real customer evidence), the Complexity Trap (how one reasonable decision at a time builds a monster), and why smart marketers still fall in — the rebrand reflex, and the one trait no CMO job description asks for: restraint. Plus the pre-mortem technique that gives even junior people a safe way to flag the problem everyone’s ignoring.If you’re heading into planning season, treat this as a gut check.Enjoy the show!Our Guest: Jim Davey — Author of Marketing Confessional; Founder & Principal, Davey Marketing Group; Instructor, Harvard Division of Continuing Education; Adjunct Lecturer, Boston College (Carroll School of Management). Former CMO of Timberland and DXL, SVP Global Integrated Marketing at Hasbro, and senior marketing roles at Nickelodeon, Polaroid and LEGO.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimdaveymarketingMarketing Confessional (out Nov 17, 2026): https://www.amazon.ca/Marketing-Confessional-Real-World-Failures-Businesses-ebook/dp/B0HMCL8Y3R/?th=1Chapters:00:00 The room goes quiet on failure00:57 Meet Jim Davey and the premise behind Marketing Confessional02:23 From sales into marketing: Jim's origin03:08 The aha — conferences only ever tell the success stories04:17 The method: 75 anonymous CMOs, 7 traps05:53 Why we hide failure (airlines and forensic engineering do the opposite)10:45 Preventable mistakes vs. experimentation11:56 The Delusion Trap: momentum takes the place of evidence13:29 "Consumers don't give a shit" — and the two questions every idea must pass17:03 Marketers are hares in a world of tortoises19:04 The minimum evidence you need before you launch20:52 Bias, digital metrics, and manufacturing your own evidence22:14 When a moonshot (Google Glass, the Metaverse) becomes delusion24:57 The Complexity Trap: one reasonable decision at a time29:53 LEGO: doubling the parts and the complexity that followed34:56 Starbucks, Apple, and addition via subtraction41:12 The 60-slide deck: "everyone gets a say, not everyone gets a vote"43:17 Why smart marketers still fall in — the rebrand reflex46:22 The missing word: restraint49:50 The reformed performance marketer51:17 The room full of nods, and the pre-mortem54:26 Monday morning: seven questions before you go too far56:59 Marketing Confessional (Nov 17) and closeThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marc and V compare notes from two marketing conferences, The Gathering in Banff and ANA Masters in Orlando, and reach the same verdict: almost every “breakthrough” on stage was a marketing fundamental wearing a 2026 outfit.This week:The Gathering (Banff). Marc reports back from Canada’s biggest brand festival, where the Effies and the effectiveness crowd shared the main stage with cult brands. YETI’s 20-year playbook, mental availability and category entry points from the keynote, and the question running through the whole episode: when a client says “community” and you’d call it market orientation, does the word even matter?ANA Masters (Orlando). V’s four keynotes, decoded. Harley’s “RIDE,” Gatorade turning a $17B sports-drink category into a $60–100B hydration one, Clorox’s “continuous relevance,” and LEGO killing its own “we tried that before” beliefs. Underneath all four: mental availability, distinctiveness, market orientation. New names, same job.Comparison is the thief of brand growth. Jenni Romaniuk (Ehrenberg-Bass) on why benchmarking against the category leader makes you measure the wrong things. Set your brand assets and ad attribution to 100%, and judge buying-moment links against your own size, not whoever’s winning.Measurement vs judgment. Josh Stephenson line that we’ve democratised measurement but not judgment, proven by Instagram’s 90-minute video and Microsoft’s 60,000-person voluntary exit. When everyone can measure everything, the rarest skill left is knowing what to ignore.Plus Ad of the Week: YETI’s “Four Letters” (Wieden+Kennedy), the 20-year playbook running underneath a 60-second spot.Coming up: a Sharp Cut on brand archetypes and Maslow’s hierarchy, then Rica Facundo (WARC) on the Pace Principle.Stories & sources this week:Comparison is the thief of brand growth, Jenni Romaniuk (Marketing Week): https://www.marketingweek.com/comparison-thief-brand-growthThis Week in Tech, Josh Stephenson (Marketing Week): https://www.marketingweek.com/week-in-tech-instagram-microsoft-redundancies/Ad of the Week, YETI “Four Letters”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PZ2ylr_IP8 (write-up: https://www.marketingdive.com/news/campaign-trail-yeti-spells-out-consumer-passions-with-four-letter-words/825390/)Enjoy the show!Chapters00:00  Intro, and what's in this week's Brief02:10  Story 1: The Gathering in Banff, effectiveness hits the main stage04:30  "Community" or market orientation, does the word matter?06:40  Cannes callback: Ritson, Sharp, and the same idea by five names08:47  Story 2: ANA Masters, Harley's "RIDE"09:59  Gatorade redefines its market; Clorox's continuous relevance11:00  LEGO kills its own beliefs; the synthesis: new names, same job13:27  Are we seeing it, or is it really changing?14:10  Story 3: Comparison is the thief of brand growth (Romaniuk)15:29  Set assets and attribution to 100%; the Adobe example17:45  Judge against your own size, not the leader18:00  Behind the category leader: how that room really sounds21:32  Story 4: This week in tech, measurement vs judgment22:59  Starving the scarce resource; are we hiring for judgment?26:58  Ad of the Week: YETI "Four Letters" and the 20-year playbook30:30  The logo-distinctiveness risk33:47  Video now on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube34:00  Coming up: brand archetypes Sharp Cut, and Rica FacundoThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marc and Vassilis debrief their foresight conversation with Jo Lepore: why foresight isn’t futurism, how backcasting reshapes brand planning, and why brand, like foresight, doesn’t get a free pass.Marc and V went into the interview as skeptics (“what is this voodoo magic?”) and came out convinced foresight is one of the most practical disciplines they’ve covered all year. In the debrief they dig into why it keeps getting typecast as insights, risk, or crisis comms, and what makes it its own thing. V keeps circling back to WestJet during COVID, an industry stuck in pure short-termism, and where a foresight function might have shortened the runway to recovery.From there: backcasting (plant your brand ten years out and work back to what would have to be true), why a forecast nobody believes is still worth running, and the line that stuck with both of them, foresight doesn’t get a free pass. V’s reframe: neither does brand. Stop defending it on the back foot, and start arguing where the business should invest to build the future demand that drives tomorrow’s cash flows.Plus the Monday move for 2027 planning (write down your assumptions), Roger Martin’s “what would have to be true,” and why they’re already building a foresight co-pilot.New here? Start with the full interview, SBP 247 with Jo Lepore, then come back for the debrief.Enjoy the show!Chapters00:00 Cold open: creating the future, not cutting cost01:00 PostPod: debriefing the Jo Lepore conversation01:30 Futurist vs foresight, and where the confusion lives02:37 Getting typecast: insights, risk, or crisis comms03:00 WestJet, COVID, and the runway that might’ve been shorter04:40 “We don’t get a free pass”05:00 Why run a 10-year forecast nothing will hold to05:50 Backcasting: work back from ten years out06:40 Foresight practices without a foresight team07:00 Going agentic: building a foresight co-pilot07:30 Pockets of foresight, Rethink, and cultural relevance08:00 What makes a scenario realistic08:30 The Monday move for 2027 planning09:24 Brand doesn’t get a free pass either10:51 Measurement, shareholders, and the revenue question11:40 Roger Martin and “what would have to be true?”13:30 Start small: adjacencies and existing fires15:40 Write down your assumptions17:00 Antifragility, black swans, and the closeThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.The Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marketing science says buyer behaviour barely moves. Futurists sell the opposite: change, disruption, the thing nobody saw coming. Can both be true? Marc and Vassilis brought in someone who can referee it.Jo Lepore built the foresight function inside Mars Wrigley and then McDonald’s, co-founded a network for people doing that work at some of the world’s biggest companies, and now leads foresight at Dig Insights. She also hosts the podcast Looking Outside. Her starting point is refreshingly blunt: foresight doesn’t get a free pass on proving its value, and neither does marketing.In this one:→ Foresight isn’t futurism. It’s not a crystal ball or a dart at the board. It’s throwing the dart toward where you want to go, then rehearsing multiple paths to get there. As Jo puts it, rehearse for every future rather than bank one.→ “Isn’t this just market research with a longer horizon?” No. You can’t ask a future consumer anything, they don’t exist. Insights are past-based facts; foresight is weak signals and carefully weighed assumptions.→ Nobody gets rewarded for preventing a fire. How foresight earns buy-in by helping put out the fire that’s already spreading, with the GLP-1 work Jo’s team ran at McDonald’s six months early as the proof.→ The pandemic test. Jo’s Mars work found the big shifts were accelerated, not caused, by COVID, and those were the ones they were already tracking.→ The bridge to marketing. Backcasting and innovation roadmaps (the three-horizons model), plus why foresight should sit as a capability across the business, not trapped in one team.Plus three things any marketer can do Monday morning, and a Big Mac No Meat dare that becomes a real-world experiment.Enjoy the show!Our Guest: Jo LeporeGlobal Foresight Strategist, Dig Insights | Host, Looking OutsideLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannalepore/Chapters00:00 Cold open: foresight should prove its value too01:40 Meet Jo Lepore, and “double lucky”02:30 What foresight is, and why it isn’t futurism04:50 Is this just market research with a longer horizon?09:00 Vitamin vs painkiller: earning buy-in11:50 The GLP-1 call at McDonald’s, six months early12:58 WestJet, COVID, and planning in crisis mode15:30 The Mars pandemic work: accelerated, not caused18:00 Horizon scanning: bringing the pockets together19:30 Canada, OCAD, and where foresight lives today20:30 Beyond chicken little: anticipatory leadership and antifragility25:00 Does a business actually need a foresight function?28:00 The bridge to marketing: backcasting and three horizons34:00 “Foresight doesn’t get a free pass”37:00 Creative vs effectiveness: let the teams battle it out41:00 Cultural foresight, and layering in the whole business45:30 Victim of your own success, and getting typecast47:00 Building McDonald’s generative AI Center of Excellence48:56 Three things to do Monday morning53:40 Big Mac No Meat: the experiment54:30 Thanks and closeHostsMarc BinkleyQuatical - https://quatical.com/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis DourosPersonal Website: https://vassilisdouros.comLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.caYouTube: http:s//www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a show.The Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marketing runs on comfort blankets. The Sharp Cut cuts them up to see what’s inside. This week, with Black Friday five weeks out and someone already writing the 40% off email: the idea that a discount wins you new business.Here’s the spine. A discount rents you this week’s sales, mostly from your own customers. When the price goes back up, the rental’s over. So every promotion has to pay for itself while it’s running.This week: → Who actually buys on the deal. Ehrenberg-Bass looked across 18 categories: 77% of promo buyers had already bought the brand in their last five trips, against 81% at full price. Basically the same people, paying less. → How long the bump lasts. Soup and yogurt promotions faded in about two weeks, and in only 1 of 29 cases did a deal change sales for good. Then the dip, and people learning to wait for your price. → The math nobody runs. At 20% off with a 50% margin you need two-thirds more sales just to stand still. A German retailer celebrated a 19%-off sale that needed triple the traffic to break even. → Three people, three kinds of math. The store, the supplier, and the salesperson are each optimizing something different, and the brand on sale is usually renting its own buyers back. → What actually works. You can’t quit cold (ask JC Penney). McCain pulled promotions back slowly and moved the money into brand, and nine years later sells more chips at a higher price.Plus the one takeaway: a discount gives the people who already buy from you a cheaper week, and you often pay for it twice.Enjoy the show!Stories & evidence this episode:Which? Black Friday investigation: https://www.which.co.uk/policy-and-insight/article/dont-believe-the-hype-most-black-friday-deals-the-same-price-or-cheaper-at-other-times-of-the-year-which-finds-a3TbD5x5KADsEhrenberg-Bass / John Dawes, price promotions and buyer mix (SSRN): https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2199169McCain, “When the chips are down, margins matter” (IPA): https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/case-studies/when-the-chips-are-down-margins-matter-how-a-focus-on-long-term-emotional-brand-building-reduced-price-elasticity-and-increased-profits-for-mccainThe Evidence Line (180+ models): https://quatical.comChapters 00:00 What the Sharp Cut is, and this week’s comfort blanket 00:50 Black Friday five weeks out, and the Which? study 02:18 How Black Friday became Black Friday month 03:50 Hermann Simon, BMW, and who really sets price (ep 18) 04:57 Who’s actually buying on the deal (Ehrenberg-Bass) 06:10 But explain P&G: the coupon cut and the share loss 06:50 How long the bump lasts, and the margin math 07:55 The 19%-off sale that needed triple the traffic 08:40 Soup, yogurt, Coke, and learning to wait 09:15 When the coupon becomes the price (Bed Bath & Beyond) 09:50 Loss leaders, pocket price, and a rebate that expired 11:58 B2B: value sellers vs price sellers, and commission math 14:49 Why not just stop? Walmart, good vs bad market share 15:40 JC Penney cold turkey vs McCain’s slow pullback 17:20 Honest pricing, anchoring, and the law 18:32 The one takeaway: you pay for it twice 19:00 Recap and what to change on MondayHosts Marc Binkley Quatical - https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Personal Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping Barber Website: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/The Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marc and V are back with the Barber’s Brief: the good, the bad, and the overhyped from the last couple of weeks, with data, a few opinions, and Great Creative getting the last word.This week:→ Apple built itself a kill switch for ad tech. iOS 26’s Safari can quietly block hundreds of identity and data vendors, the list lives in a private repo, and only Apple knows the rules. Everyone’s calling it a privacy story. It’s a power story, and the real lesson is one we keep coming back to: stop renting your audience.→ Phantom Reach. Ritson and Lumen clocked the same ad getting 16 seconds of attention on a living room TV and about 1.5 seconds in a web video player. Both count as one impression on your plan. So ask your agency for attentive seconds, not impressions.→ Jaguar is finally coupled with a product. The rebrand tested with more 1s and 2s, and more 9s and 10s, than anything in its history. Polarizing is right for a six-figure niche. It’s a terrible lesson for a mass-market brand to copy.→ Mbappé leaves Nike for On, part cash, part equity. The Jordan playbook, run against Nike, while On climbs and Nike slides.Plus Ad of the Week: Robitussin hires a deadpan cough hitman named Robby Tussin, and turns the brand name into the character, the joke, and the mnemonic all at once.Coming up: Joanna Lepore of Dig Insights on foresight and strategy.Enjoy the show!Chapters00:00 Intro: welcome back to the Barber's Brief00:51 Story 1: Apple's kill switch for ad tech04:53 Why is so much of the industry built on rented land?08:20 Story 2: Phantom Reach, attention vs impressions10:48 Selling attentive seconds instead of impressions13:18 How the platforms are moving (Meridian, Andromeda, MMM)14:34 Story 3: Jaguar, finally coupled with a product16:43 Polarization as a scalpel, not a strategy17:48 Controversy with a product vs controversy for its own sake20:47 Story 4: Mbappé leaves Nike for On23:08 Do challenger-brand signings change how retailers buy?25:35 Ad of the Week: Robitussin's cough hitman, Robby Tussin28:03 Why the one-character platform beats weekly fresh creative29:09 Coming up: Joanna Lepore, Dig InsightsHostsMarc BinkleyQuatical - https://quatical.com/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis DourosPersonal Website: https://vassilisdouros.comLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Stories this weekApple’s ad-tech kill switch (AdExchanger): https://www.adexchanger.com/privacy/apple-has-far-reaching-plans-to-block-hundreds-of-programmatic-data-companies-from-ios/Phantom Reach — Mark Ritson (The Drum): https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/why-the-reach-of-one-rule-is-built-on-ads-nobody-ever-actually-seesJaguar’s rebrand meets its product (Marketing Week): https://www.marketingweek.com/jaguars-rebrand-product/Mbappé leaves Nike for On (Yahoo Sports): https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/kylian-mbappe-drops-nike-sponsorship-045914241.htmlAd of the WeekRobitussin’s “Take Care of Your Cough” / Robby Tussin (MM+M): https://www.mmm-online.com/news/meet-robby-tussin-robitussins-jacket-clad-cough-hitman/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.caYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.The Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Everybody in this industry is arguing about what AI does to an agency. Almost all of it is agencies talking to themselves about their own cost structure. Clients are asking something else entirely.So Marc and V put the real question to two of the people growing Canada’s agency business while the ground moves under it: if you are not selling hours, what are you selling?Mélanie Dunn is President of Plus Company Canada and CEO of Cossette. Karine Courtemanche is EVP of Plus Company Canada and President of its media group, Strategy’s 2024 Media Leader of the Year, Chair of the Canadian Media Directors’ Council.Inside the conversation: why clients now buy a connected system of tools rather than time, and why the shift off billable hours is being stalled by clients, not agencies. The biggest myth in the business, and the KPI guarantee they sold three times out of hundreds of clients. Why your agency’s tech stack is now a reason to hire them. In-housing done for the right and wrong reasons. Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone and a junior can mentor a senior. And a genuine cry for help on supporting Canadian media, where the gap between an ethical placement and a cheaper one is often marginal.The through line: agencies are being pushed to stop selling time and start selling judgment, and nobody has solved how you build judgment at scale.Enjoy the episode!Our Guests:Mélanie Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dunnmelanie/Karine Courtemanche: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karine-courtemanche-64896330/Chapters:00:00 The best time to be in this business00:46 Barbell or pyramid? Setting up the debate02:43 What is the role of a modern agency?06:51 What clients actually buy now: a system, not hours09:25 If you're not selling time, what are you selling?12:51 The biggest myth: agencies do want outcomes15:15 Why outcome models stall: predictability and risk17:45 Attribution as the missing accountability layer19:16 Choosing an agency on its tools, not just its people22:05 Three conditions for integration that actually works23:57 In-housing, for the right reasons27:08 Why there is no single agency model29:22 Building operational platforms, not just media tools31:36 AI, governance, and building the same tool twice34:19 Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone36:44 Hiring now: references, soft skills, hard questions45:30 Monday takeaways: governance as an enabler49:13 A cry for help on Canadian media57:02 Calgary, and the centre of the worldThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marketing runs on comfort blankets. The Sharp Cut cuts them up to see what's inside. This week: brand love.Start with motorcycles. In 2015, the happiest owners in the entire category rode Victory, ahead of Harley. Two years later, Polaris shut Victory down. The happiest customers in the category could not keep the brand alive. That should bother anyone who spent a career being told marketing's job is to make people love you.So Marc and V take the believers at their word and run three tests on lovemarks, raving fans, and brand love. Are the most loved brands the biggest? Are they growing the fastest? Does the love come first, before the buying? The evidence, from the ACSI to double jeopardy to ten years of Ehrenberg-Bass data, keeps pointing the same way.Then they own up to it. Marc's Heinz loyalty that is really just shelf placement. V's Golf Town thank-you notes, where every bit of love showed up after the money was already in the books.The conclusion is not that love is worthless. It protects you, and losing it hurts. It just is not what grows a brand. Plus what to do with all of this on Monday.Chapters00:00 What the Sharp Cut is00:45 Today's comfort blanket: brand love00:50 Victory vs Harley: the happiest owners, gone in two years02:36 Where the idea came from05:43 The money angle, and the JC Penney lovemark06:28 The case for love, taken seriously08:33 Three tests for the believers08:59 Test 1: are the most loved brands the biggest?10:20 Double jeopardy, and why loyalty is everywhere12:04 The Apple challenge12:45 Test 2: do loved brands grow the fastest?15:12 Test 3: does love come first?18:17 Confessions: Heinz, Matouk's, and the Golf Town tees22:04 So is love a moat? The Kroger debate24:14 Do people even want a relationship with a brand?26:31 What to do MondayThe Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.

Marc and V are back with the Barber's Brief: the good, the bad, and the overhyped, with data, a few opinions, and Great Creative getting the last word.This week:Your marketing team already got smaller. Nearly half of B2B teams have shrunk because of AI, almost none of it through layoffs (Wynter). Meanwhile most execs who cut roles for AI now regret it (Orgvue) and plenty are quietly rehiring (Robert Half, Klarna). If the cuts and the reversals are both invisible, how would anyone know it worked?Ads aimed at robots, not people. Brands are now buying ads to influence the AI agents that shop for us. V's take: feed the machine clean facts, sure, but "converts higher, further down the funnel" is the last click song all over again. The agent harvests demand, it doesn't create it.Tariffs, margins, and pricing power. Lose a market overnight and no ad fixes it. For everyone else it's margin pressure, and brand strength decides how much you can pass on.Meta is grading your creative on how different it looks, and reporting more clicks for it. The problem: memory is built on consistency.Plus Ad of the Week: Sydney Sweeney made Novig famous overnight. But did anyone remember the brand?Coming up: Brand Love and Lovemarks, and the agency model with Cossette.Enjoy the show!Chapters:00:00 Intro: Welcome to the Barber's Brief00:52 Story 1: AI is quietly shrinking marketing teams03:17 If the cuts are invisible, how do we know it's working?05:47 Story 2: ads aimed at AI agents, not people08:02 The two-audience problem, and last click rebuilt for robots10:31 Story 3: tariffs, margins, and brand pricing power12:57 Why the reason for a price increase beats the size15:25 Story 4: Meta's creative diversification best practices17:47 More clicks, or Meta's win? Distinctive assets at risk20:18 Ad of the Week: Novig x Sydney Sweeney, "Just Sports"22:54 Famous, but not famous for you24:15 The shortcut, and whether it pays off27:31 Coming up: Brand Love, and the agency model with CossetteLinks:AI Cut the Marketing Team. Then Came the Rehires.https://martech.org/ai-is-powering-the-loss-of-marketing-jobs/https://www.orgvue.com/news/55-of-businesses-admit-wrong-decisions-in-making-employees-redundant-when-bringing-ai-into-the-workforce/https://www.cnbc.com/2026/07/01/employers-who-laid-off-workers-for-ai-are-reversing-their-decisions.htmlhttps://www.cioandleader.com/why-replacing-employees-with-ai-backfired-for-enterprises/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-08/klarna-turns-from-ai-to-real-person-customer-serviceSome companies are using ads to influence AI agentshttps://www.marketingbrew.com/stories/optimizing-for-ai-agents-time-magazine-wayfair-strategyTariffs Are Squeezing Margins. Your Brand Decides How Much You Can Pass On.https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2026/08/list-of-products-from-the-united-states-subject-to-counter-tariffs-effective-september-8-2026.htmlhttps://www.npr.org/2026/08/22/nx-s1-5941584/us-canada-tariffshttps://www.abfjournal.com/the-middle-market-manufacturing-squeeze-tariffs-supply-chains-the-dealmaker-ecosystem-in-2026/https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/brands/how-to-make-pricing-work-for-your-brandhttps://www.marketingweek.com/creativity-pays-les-binet/https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/ipa-blog/new-evidence-shows-stronger-brands-really-can-charge-morehttps://asknigelhollis.com/blog/evidence-that-advertising-increases-demand-at-any-given-price.htmlhttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1177/0092070304269953https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/10946705251341080 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tariffs/2026/09/29/import-ban-on-canadian-goods-in-effect-while-trump-expects-canadians-to-say-sir-we-are-sorry-follow-for-live-updates/https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R49349.htmlHow advertisers are adjusting to Meta’s ad creative diversification best practiceshttps://www.marketingbrew.com/stories/meta-ad-creative-diversification-best-practices-advertiser-approachAd of the WeekSydney Sweeney Is Famous. Novig Isn't.Link: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andrew-tindall_ive-tested-the-sydney-sweeney-ad-males-activity-7505989922999164929-_xcYFull link list for the ad of the week, in order:https://deadline.com/2026/09/sydney-sweeney-novig-ad-backlash-female-olympians-1237101507/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-sydney-sweeney-ad-reaction-9.7351851 https://frontofficesports.com/article/novig-ceo-sydney-sweeney-forces-us-into-national-discourse/ https://globalgamblingnews.com/sydney-sweeney-takes-equity-stake-in-novig/ https://contagious.com/io/article/jenni-romaniuk-on-distinctive-assets https://www.marketingscience.info/brands-need-distinctive-assets https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andrew-tindall_ive-tested-the-sydney-sweeney-ad-males-activity-7505989922999164929-_xcY https://system1group.com/creative-dividend The Sleeping Barber is a marketing podcast hosted by Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros, breaking down strategy, marketing effectiveness, and the evidence behind what actually grows a business.HostsMarc BinkleyQuatical: https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Follow The Sleeping BarberWebsite: https://sleepingbarber.ca YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sleeping-barber-a-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/ Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hit follow so you never miss a drop.