SBP 139: Navigating the complexities of B2B Buying. With Mimi Turner and Jann Martin Schwartz.

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with Alan Cross and explore the evolution of the music industry, particularly in the context of technological advancements and the rise of AI. They discuss the challenges faced by new artists in a saturated market, the importance of mental and physical availability in marketing, and how nostalgia influences modern music. The conversation also touches on strategies for breaking through in the industry and the future of music in an AI-driven landscape.Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysAI is transforming the music industry in unprecedented ways.The shift from albums to singles has changed how music is consumed.New artists face immense competition in a crowded market.Mental and physical availability are crucial for marketing success.Nostalgia can be a powerful tool for modern artists.Breaking through requires innovative marketing strategies.The music industry is constantly evolving with technology.Artists today compete with both contemporary and historical figures.Understanding audience engagement is key for new artists.The future of music will be shaped by AI and digital platforms.Chapters:00:00 The Evolution of Music and Technology02:26 Navigating the Modern Music Landscape05:03 The Role of AI in Music Creation07:28 Marketing Strategies for Artists09:52 Nostalgia and Its Impact on Music12:34 The Future of Music Consumption

What can marketers learn from 70 years of disruption in the music industry? Legendary broadcaster and musicologist Alan Cross joins Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros to unpack the parallels between rock ’n’ roll, technology, and the future of marketing.From the Beatles and Michael Jackson to Radiohead, Billie Eilish, and AI-generated artists, Alan takes us on a journey through the biggest shifts in music history—and reveals what marketers everywhere can apply to stay relevant, resilient, and innovative.If you want to sharpen your perspective on disruption, audience behavior, and adapting to change, this episode is essential listening.Our Guest:Alan Cross is an internationally known broadcaster, writer, and music historian. With more than 1,050 episodes of The Ongoing History of New Music and 30M+ downloads, Alan has documented the evolution of music, technology, and culture for over 45 years. He is also the host of Uncharted: Crime and Mayhem in the Music Industry, a consultant, and a sought-after speaker on the intersection of media, technology, and culture.www.ajournalofmusicalthings.com https://alancross.ca/Follow our updates:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysAdapt or fade away: How musicians and marketers alike face a “best before date” unless they evolve with technology and culture.The album effect: Why Sgt. Pepper’s changed not just music, but how products are packaged, positioned, and promoted.The monoculture era: How Michael Jackson’s Thriller and big-budget videos became a global marketing playbook.The pricing revolution: Radiohead’s In Rainbows and what it teaches us about business model innovation.From Napster to TikTok: Lessons in distribution, disruption, and discoverability.AI’s double edge: The opportunity and threat of AI-generated music—and what every marketer needs to know.Universal lesson: Don’t fight technology. Use it as a tool, or risk becoming obsolete.Chapters00:00 The Evolution of Music and Technology03:09 Adapting to Change in the Music Industry05:28 The Impact of Albums on Music Culture09:34 The Role of Retail in Music Discovery11:34 The Significance of Music Videos14:53 Marketing Strategies in the Music Industry16:38 The Shift to Digital and Streaming18:51 The Experimentation of Pricing Models19:58 The Rise of Digital Music Consumption25:56 The Transformation of Music Discovery26:37 The Challenge of Music Discovery30:11 The Impact of Social Media on Music34:49 The Fragmentation of Media Consumption39:49 The Future of Music Rights and AI50:39 Embracing Technology in Music MarketingLinks:The History of the Record Store https://open.spotify.com/episode/0KmTBhbHvFMg3cgiPwoRdO?si=5b244e1d4c8b4422The Rise & Fall of the MP3 https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-mp3/id1201968027?i=1000703061824People Still Go to Concerts LiveNation Q2 Report https://www.ajournalofmusicalthings.com/people-not-going-to-concerts-hah-live-nation-just-reported-a-massive-q2/The changing economics of the Music Industry https://app.lumiqlearn.com/episodes/jlDKnRnb3UcXsgc4jvJ9 Ticketmaster - The Origins of an industry Giant https://app.lumiqlearn.com/episodes/RH0w5jP1rZs1U0ZDuTbLTerry O’Reilly Marketing Hit Songs https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/marketing-hit-songs-1.2947741 How much music is release each year? https://nikkimiller.space/2025/02/09/how-much-music-is-released-every-year/Streaming Stats...

In this episode of the Barber's Brief, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss things that have caught there attention over the last couple of weeks. Including the risks associated with rebranding, Amazon's recent advertising strategy, rising costs on Meta, Google's declining market share, and the effectiveness of advertising. They also highlight Marc's piece for WARC "Why your customers say 'ads don’t work on me' while wrapping up with their ad of the week!Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Chapters00:00 - Introduction 00:35 - The Risks of Rebranding03:16 - Amazon's Advertising Strategy Shift05:01 - Meta's Rising Advertising Costs08:28 - Google's Declining Market Share11:56 - The Role of Advertising in Consumer Behavior12:43 - Marketing Moment: Ads and Consumer Perception21:29 - Ad of the Week: Lacoste's Logo Glow UpIn The News Links:Title: The Rebrand Reality CheckLink: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/officialjohnjames_ok-now-this-story-became-interesting-are-activity-7366277517277659137-6YLO/https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cracker-barrel-co-founder-93-170000637.htmlTitle: Amazon exits Google Shopping adsLink: https://www.ecommercenorthamerica.org/2025/07/28/amazon-exits-google-shopping-ads/Title: Creative Might Be the Solution to your Meta's Budget ProblemLink: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kevin-goodwin-12b4243a_most-performance-ups-and-downs-on-meta-can-activity-7366181759685701632-oXVZ/Title: Google's Decline: Understanding the Shift in Search and What's Next - FrancoLink: https://franco.com/blog/advertising/googles-decline-understanding-the-shift-in-search-and-whats-next/The Marketing Moment:Title: 4Ps - Promotion: Why your customers say 'ads don’t work on me'Link: https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/4ps---promotion-why-your-customers-say-ads-dont-work-on-me/en-gb/7098Ad of the WeekTitle: Lacoste replaces its crocodile with a goat to celebrate Novak DjokovicLink: https://www.thedrum.com/news/2025/08/27/ad-the-day-lacoste-replaces-its-crocodile-with-goat-celebrate-novak-djokovic

In this episode, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley unpack the messy reality of B2B buying, following a thought-provoking conversation with Jann Schwartz and Mimi Turner.They explore how buying decisions are rarely rational or linear—shaped instead by shifting group dynamics, emotional “jobs to be done,” and the human need for trust and validation. Drawing from personal experiences with software purchasing, they highlight why buying groups don’t map neatly to org charts, why deals often stall due to misalignment rather than product fit, and how brand fame works differently for large versus niche players.The discussion also dives into what this means for B2B marketers and creatives alike—from building awareness to navigating the unique challenges smaller brands face when competing with established giants.Enjoy the show!Our Guests:Mimi Turner: Head of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn LMShttps://www.linkedin.com/in/mimi-turner/Jann Martin Schwartz: Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/janns/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysB2B buying is a complex and relational process.Emotional components play a significant role in decision-making.Buyers often carry the blame for failed purchases.Buying groups should ideally be small and focused.The onboarding experience can impact perceptions of a product.Understanding emotional jobs to be done is crucial for marketers.Creative strategies must align with the emotional journey of buyers.Brand awareness is essential for niche products to compete.The buying process involves multiple stakeholders and perspectives.Marketers need to navigate political capital within organizations.Chapters:00:00 - Navigating the Complexities of B2B Buying02:38 - The Emotional Weight of Decision Making05:19 - The Role of Buying Groups in B2B07:55 - Understanding Emotional Jobs to Be Done10:30 - Creative Implications in B2B Marketing13:00 - The Importance of Brand Awareness in Buying Decisions15:23 - Integrating Products in a Buying Ecosystem

In this episode of the Sleeping Barber podcast, hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros engage with Mimi Turner & Jann Martin Schwartz who leads the marketplace innovation team at LinkedIn. The conversation delves into the complexities of B2B buying, emphasizing the relational and emotional aspects that influence purchasing decisions. Key themes include the importance of trust, the evolving dynamics of buyer groups, and the impact of generational shifts and AI on decision-making. The discussion also highlights the significance of physical events in fostering relationships and validating brands in the B2B space.Our Guests:Mimi Turner: Head of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn LMShttps://www.linkedin.com/in/mimi-turner/Jann Martin Schwartz: Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/janns/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysB2B buying is primarily relational, not just rational.Emotional jobs play a crucial role in B2B purchasing decisions.Trust and recommendations are vital for buyers.The number of stakeholders in buying groups is increasing.Generational changes are influencing B2B buying behaviour.AI is reshaping how buyers make decisions.Physical events provide essential human validation.Being well-known in a category is critical for success.Buyers prioritize defensible choices in their decisions.Understanding emotional jobs can enhance marketing strategies.Chapters00:00 Introduction to B2B Buying Dynamics06:06 Understanding Emotional Jobs in B2B12:04 The Role of Trust and Relationships17:58 Navigating Brand Recognition in B2B23:55 The Evolution of Buyer Groups and Decision-Making24:55 The Importance of Human Validation in B2B Decisions26:22 Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing27:41 The Role of Events in Building Trust29:37 Nonlinear Thinking in B2B Marketing31:56 Creating Value Through Intangible Investments34:37 Navigating Risk in B2B Purchases38:41 Emotional Jobs to Be Done in B2B Buying Decisions

In this episode, Marc and Vassilis discuss various thing that caught their eye over the last couple weeks including the cultural impact of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, OpenAI's new e-commerce strategy, Google's advancements in AI for ad traffic management, and the rise of Substack among Gen Z brands. They also delve into the importance of restructuring Google Ads for better performance and highlight TD Bank's innovative campaign that promotes fractional ownership.Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Episode Takeaways:Speed and agility in marketing can lead to success.OpenAI is diversifying into e-commerce with chat GPT.Google is using AI to combat invalid ad traffic.Substack is gaining traction among Gen Z brands.Restructuring Google Ads should be done thoughtfully.TD Bank's campaign creatively promotes fractional ownership.Cultural relevance is key in modern marketing strategies.AI tools are essential for optimizing ad performance.Brands must adapt to changing consumer behaviors.Email marketing is evolving, not dying. Timestamps:00:00 - Welcome and Introduction00:57 - Cultural Marketing Moments: Taylor Swift and Reese's04:13 - OpenAI's E-commerce Strategy07:44 - Google's AI in Ad Traffic Management11:25 - Substack: The New Platform for Gen Z Brands15:05 - Marketing Moment: Restructuring Google Ad Accounts21:22 - Ad of the Week: TD Bank's Fractional Ownership Campaign

Join hosts Vassilis and Marc as they dive into the transformative power of AI in market research. They welcome Steve Phillips, Chief Innovation officer from Zappi to discuss creative effectiveness and consumer-centric approaches and how platforms like Zappi are reshaping the industry by enhancing data analysis, accelerating decision-making, and balancing creativity with data-driven insights.Enjoy the show!Our Guest:Steve Phillips, Founder, Chair and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-phillips-2121ab/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction and Episode Overview 02:15 - AI's Impact on Market Research05:30 - Discussion on Synthetic Data10:00 - Agility in Marketing through Rapid Testing 15:45 - Balancing Creativity and Data in Advertising

In this episode of the Sleeping Baber podcast, Steve Phillips, founder and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi, discusses the evolution of consumer insights, the role of AI in market research, and the importance of creative effectiveness. He shares his journey from CEO to CIO, emphasizing the need for agility in marketing and the democratization of consumer insights. The conversation also touches on the future of data as a service and how Zappi is helping brands improve their effectiveness through a deeper understanding of consumer emotions.Our Guest:Steve Phillips, Founder, Chair and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-phillips-2121ab/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysZappi aims to automate consumer insights for faster and cheaper results.AI has significantly improved the quality of market research reports.The emotional impact of advertising is crucial for creative effectiveness.Zappi's platform allows for rapid testing and iteration of marketing ideas.Democratizing consumer insights enables all team members to access data easily.Creative effectiveness is about more than just click-through rates.Zappi's clients have reported a 30% increase in effectiveness using their system.The future of marketing involves a continuous feedback loop with consumers.Data as a service is the next evolution for Zappi, enhancing brand strategy.Chapters00:00 - Introduction to Zappi and Steve Phillips03:00 - The Evolution of Consumer Insights05:58 - Leveraging AI in Market Research09:07 - Creative Effectiveness and Its Importance12:14 - The Shift from CEO to Chief Innovation Officer14:53 - The Future of Data as a Service18:00 - Conclusion and Key Takeaways

In this episode of Barbers Brief, Vassilis and Marc discuss the evolving landscape of entertainment and advertising, focusing on the YouTube-ification of platforms like Netflix, Google's new AI-driven advertising strategies, and the changing dynamics of TV consumption. They also delve into American Eagle's controversial marketing campaign and reflect on the need for a renewed approach to marketing strategies in a rapidly changing digital environment.Enjoy the show!Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠TakeawaysNetflix is leveraging YouTube creators for content development.AI mode ads will change how brands target consumers.Streaming now dominates TV consumption, with YouTube leading.American Eagle's campaign sparked significant cultural debate.Marketing strategies need to evolve with changing consumer behavior.The importance of understanding both old and new marketing playbooks.Brands must clarify their objectives to avoid data-driven pitfalls.Engagement metrics should focus on meaningful interactions, not just clicks.Controversial campaigns can generate buzz but may alienate consumers.The line between brands and entertainment companies is blurring.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Overview00:44 YouTube's Influence on Streaming Platforms05:09 Google's AI Mode Ads06:50 Nielsen's Report on TV Viewing Trends10:24 American Eagle's Controversial Campaign15:30 Marketing Moment: The State of Marketing Today23:08 Out of the Week: Jordan Brand's Musical Ad

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis discuss insights from their chat with Bob Park, focusing on brand management, the importance of data in marketing, and the evolving landscape of AI. They explore how to manage multiple brands effectively, the distinction between good and bad data, and the significance of sales as a key metric. The discussion also touches on the shift towards micro-moments in marketing and the future implications of AI in the industry.Enjoy the show!Our Guest:Bob Park: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-park-geappliances/Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠TakeawaysThe weather can influence our mood and conversations.Managing multiple brands requires a nuanced understanding of market dynamics.Good data is essential for effective marketing strategies.Sales metrics should be the primary focus for marketers.The marketing landscape is shifting towards smaller, more frequent campaigns.AI is rapidly evolving and will impact marketing roles significantly.Understanding consumer behaviour is crucial for brand success.Data should guide decision-making, but clarity on what is being measured is vital.Collaboration across departments is essential for achieving sales goals.The future of marketing will involve adapting to new technologies and consumer expectations.Chapters00:00 Sunny Beginnings and Weather Talk01:55 Insights from Bob Park: Managing Multiple Brands05:18 Data Distinctions: Good vs. Bad09:09 Sales as the Key Metric12:42 The Shift to Smaller Campaigns16:10 The Future of AI and Technology18:05 Reflections on the Conversation