S9 Ep12: Can a Federation Heal the Divide between Israel and Palestine with Nigel Roberts

After a despotic reign of over five decades, marked by 13 years of bloody civil war that killed over half a million people and displaced millions more, the al-Assad dynasty’s rule over Syria has come to a sudden, shocking end. In just under two weeks, rebel groups mounted an offensive that captured a string of major cities, culminating in the fall of Damascus with barely a shot being fired and Bashar al-Assad fleeing into exile in Moscow. It’s difficult to understate what a complete sea change these events are for Syria and the Middle East. Today, Phillip Smyth returns to help us make sense of how this all unfolded so quickly, so unexpectedly, and what it means for Iran and its proxies like Lebanese Hezbollah, who propped up the Assad regime and counted on Syria as a hub to exert their influence throughout the region. Read Phillip’s work for West Point’s Combatting Terrorism Center: https://ctc.westpoint.edu/authors/phillip-smyth/ Read Phillip’s past work for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/experts/phillip-smyth Follow Phillip on Twitter/X: https://x.com/PhillipSmyth Relevant articles and reporting "The Backstory Behind the Fall of Aleppo" by Hassan Hassan and Michael Weiss | New Lines Magazine "Jihadi ‘Counterterrorism:’ Hayat Tahrir al-Sham Versus the Islamic State" by Aaron Y. Zelin | CTC Sentinel Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) Backgrounder | Center for Strategic & International Studies "Syrian rebels reveal year-long plot that brought down Assad regime" by William Christou | The Guardian Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996 Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/fultonmatt.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

In this episode, Matt’s joined by Jack Murphy—former Green Beret, investigative journalist, and host of The Team House podcast. Jack shares insights from his latest book, We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History, which uncovers lesser-known missions that shaped the US special operations community, from Cold War Berlin to nuclear contingencies reminiscent of Dr. Strangelove. Jack delves into the untold stories of units like Special Forces Detachment A and Blue Light, exploring the ingenuity, adaptability, and sacrifices of the men behind these covert operations, reflecting on the evolving role of special operations in today’s world. Get We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ref=sr_1_1 Listen to Jack on The Team House: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-team-house/id1492797340 Read’s reporting for The High Side on Substack: https://thehighside.substack.com Follow Jack on Bluesky & X https://bsky.app/profile/jackmurphyrgr.bsky.social https://x.com/JackMurphyRGR Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996 Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/fultonmatt.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

Retired World Bank Director Nigel Roberts tackles the intractable Israel-Palestine conflict. He dissects the shortcomings of the two-state solution and champions a novel approach: a federation acknowledging both identities. Roberts delves into the historical roots and the radicalisation fuelling the conflict. He argues for a new framework built on a constitutional process, acknowledging the trauma on both sides. The discussion explores the challenges of public acceptance amidst deep mistrust. Roberts examines the influence of social media and urges international engagement to foster dialogue. Ultimately, he offers a glimmer of hope with the federation model, calling for citizen action and support for initiatives like "A Land for All." Watch on YouTube https://youtu.be/Ija7A6Csh3o Links Read the full paper - “An Israeli/Palestinian Federation: An Alternative Approach to Peace“ by Riccardo Bocco and Nigel Roberts https://we.tl/t-sMTakmxHGD A Land For All https://www.alandforall.org/english/?d=ltr Geneva Graduate Institute https://www.graduateinstitute.ch/war-middle-east Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996 Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/fultonmatt.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

In this episode, Matt is joined again by Jacob Ware, a counterterrorism expert with the Council on Foreign Relations and co-author of God, Guns, and Sedition: Far-Right Terrorism in America. They discuss the unsettling question of what far-right extremism, with its proponents feeling emboldened and legitimized by Donald Trump’s election, might look like during his second term in office. Jacob helps unpack how these movements are evolving, the risks they pose to democratic institutions, and what the next four years might hold for these groups in terms of recruitment, violence, and public visibility of their hateful worldview. It’s a critical conversation we hope you’ll find steers away from hyperbole, focusing instead on historical lessons and current dynamics shaping this moment. So, grab your coffee—or maybe something stronger—and join us for an in-depth look at the challenges ahead. Get Jacob’s book God, Guns, and Sedition: Far-Right Terrorism in America: https://www.cfr.org/book/god-guns-and-sedition https://www.amazon.com/God-Guns-Sedition-Far-Right-Terrorism/dp/0231211228 Jacob’s work for the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/expert/jacob-ware Jacob’s work for Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/contributors/jware Follow Jacob on Bluesky & X https://bsky.app/profile/jacobware.bsky.social https://x.com/Jacob_A_Ware Relevant articles and reporting "Understanding the Threats to US Election Security in 2024" by Kat Duffy & Jacob Ware | Council on Foreign Relations "The Terrorist Threat from the Fractured Far Right" by Bruce Hoffman & Jacob Ware | Lawfare "The Proud Boys Love a Winner" by Juliette Kayyem | The Atlantic "Far-right extremists celebrate, see opportunity in second Trump win" by Hannah Allam | The Washington Post "Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Pentagon pick, sparks alarm over far-right extremism" by Alice Herman | The Guardian Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996 Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/fultonmatt.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

In this episode of Espresso Martini, Chris and Matt examine the potentially seismic shifts for the US and the Western alliance if Trump executes his plans to overhaul the federal workforce. They discuss the risk of a mass exodus of career officials, the politicization of intelligence agencies, and the broader implications for national security. They also explore Garrett Graff’s thought-provoking scenarios for America’s future, comparing the possibility of federal collapse to a fragmented state-driven system akin to Europe. In addition, the hosts explore Russia’s alleged GRU-led sabotage of European air cargo hubs, assessing how these operations fit into a broader strategy of hybrid warfare. The episode wraps up with a discussion on satire’s role in media, sparked by The Onion’s satirical purchase of Infowars, an incisive critique of the growing overlap between parody and disinformation in the modern media landscape. Watch us on YouTube https://youtu.be/oZ5pv31_60w Articles discussed in today’s episode “Trump’s Deep State Revenge” by Shane Harris | The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/intelligence-agencies-trump-loyalists/680625/ “Two scenarios for the years ahead” by Garrett Graff | Doomsday Scenario https://www.doomsdayscenario.co/p/two-scenarios-for-the-years-ahead “Mystery fires were Russian 'test runs' to target cargo flights to US” by Paul Kirby | BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07912lxx33o “The Onion’s Most Trenchant Headline” by Megan Garber | The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2024/11/onion-infowars-acquisition-satire/680667/ Click here to tune into our Patreon Show Extra Shot: https://www.patreon.com/posts/extra-shot-cias-116617245?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996   Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SecretsAndSpies Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/fultonmatt.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

We wanted to drop a quick update about the podcast this weekend. New episodes of Espresso Martini and our Patreon-exclusive show, Extra Shot, are running just a little behind schedule. Listeners in the US and the UK can expect them in their feeds on Sunday. For our friends Down Under, that’ll probably be Monday. Both are still on the way, just not on Saturday, as expected. We thank you for your patience. Enjoy your weekend, everyone.

In this conversation, award-winning investigative journalist Philip Obaji discusses the increasing influence of the Russian Wagner Group in Africa, particularly in relation to military coups and economic interests. He shares insights into the motivations behind Russia's actions in the region, the impact of Yevgeny Prigozhin's death on Wagner's operations, and his personal experiences reporting in dangerous environments. Obaji highlights the human rights violations committed by Russian paramilitaries, including sexual assaults and massacres, emphasizing the need for greater awareness and reporting on these issues. This conversation delves into the complex and often dark relationship between Russia and various African nations, focusing on the involvement of Russian mercenaries, the exploitation of local populations, and the growing influence of China. Philip Obaji shares insights from his reporting on atrocities committed by Russian forces, including sexual violence and child labor in mining operations. The discussion also touches on local perceptions of Russian influence, the impact of disinformation campaigns, and the need for accountability from the international community. Find out more about Philips's work here: https://www.thedailybeast.com/author/philip-obaji-jr/ Connect with him on X here: https://twitter.com/PhilipObaji Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996   Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SecretsAndSpies Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChrisCarrFilm https://twitter.com/FultonMatt Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

In this conversation, David Bickford shares his fascinating journey from a unique childhood to a distinguished career in the intelligence services, specifically as a legal director for MI5 and MI6. He discusses the complexities of balancing national security with legality, the current threats posed by Russia and China, and the evolving landscape of intelligence work. Transitioning into a novelist, Bickford reflects on the inspiration behind his books, the writing process he shares with his wife, and offers valuable advice for aspiring writers and those considering a career in intelligence. To find out more about David and his latest novel, “Katya The Informer”, please visit his website: https://davidbickford.co.uk/ Watch this interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0zPfzbDOrIc Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996   Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SecretsAndSpies Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChrisCarrFilm https://twitter.com/FultonMatt Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

In this episode of Espresso Martini, Chris and Matt discuss the alarming news that North Korea is sending up to 12,000 troops to bolster Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. They explore the implications of North Korea gaining combat experience and modern warfare training and whether these troops are likely to be anything more than cannon fodder for Putin’s war. Next, they unpack the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, mastermind of the October 7th attacks, killed by Israeli forces after a years-long manhunt. In a twist of fate, it was trainee soldiers who found him. While his final defiance is already being mythologized by supporters, Chris and Matt assess whether his death will weaken Hamas or bolster its extremist factions. They also explore the arrest of seven Israelis accused of spying for Iran and how these betrayals compromised national security. Finally, they examine growing threats against FEMA workers in North Carolina, driven by conspiracy theories that disrupted disaster relief efforts and underscore the real dangers of misinformation. Watch us on YouTube https://youtu.be/bP_YTHABle4 Articles discussed in today’s episode "North Korea 'sends 1,500 special forces with fake Russian IDs' to support Putin's war against Ukraine" by Deborah Haynes | Sky News https://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-sends-1-500-special-forces-with-fake-russian-ids-to-support-putins-war-against-ukraine-13235751 "Yahya Sinwar’s final moments and the Israeli trainees who found him" by Julian Borger | The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/18/yahya-sinwar-final-moments-israeli-infantry-tracked-him-down "Seven Israelis arrested for spying for Iran, providing info on army bases" by Jacob Laznik & Eye Young | Jerusalem Post https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-825487 "Suspect arrested after reports of threats toward FEMA operations in North Carolina" by Andy Rose, Paradise Afshar, Ella Nilsen & Gabe Cohen | CNN https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/14/us/fema-helene-north-carolina-reported-threats/index.html Click here to tune into our Patreon Show Extra Shot: https://www.patreon.com/posts/us-fusion-cells-114715746?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996   Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SecretsAndSpies Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChrisCarrFilm https://twitter.com/FultonMatt Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird

Chris is unwell so there won’t be a new episode this week. Instead, Chris is re-sharing the first-ever episode in which he is joined by the author Meredith Tax, and they discuss her book “The Double Bind”, which looks at the problematic relationship between Anglo American left and the Muslim right. Later in the podcast, they also discuss the role of Kurdish women in the fight against ISIS. You can get a copy of the Double Bind here: UK https://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Bind-Muslim-Anglo-American-Universal/dp/0988830302/ref=sr_1_1?crid=ZKEJ0U88CK4F&keywords=the+double+bind+meredith+tax&qid=1699649198&sprefix=the+double+bind+meredith+tax%2Caps%2C225&sr=8-1 US https://www.amazon.com/Double-Bind-Muslim-Anglo-American-Universal/dp/0988830302/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SGNS9LZ9PFXX&keywords=the+double+bind+meredith+tax&qid=1699649248&sprefix=the+double+bind+meredith+tax%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1 AUS https://www.amazon.com.au/Double-Bind-Muslim-Anglo-American-Universal/dp/0988830302/ref=sr_1_1?crid=238AGSX9HY3UG&keywords=THE+DOUBLE+BIND+MEREDITH+TAX&qid=1699649285&sprefix=the+double+bind+meredith+tax%2Caps%2C184&sr=8-1 Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies Buy merchandise from our Redbubble shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996   Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com Connect with us on social media Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SecretsAndSpies Instagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspies Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social Facebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspies Spoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies Follow Chris and Matt on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChrisCarrFilm https://twitter.com/FultonMatt Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD. Music by Andrew R. Bird