Finance vs. Marketing: Who’s Really Right About ROI? | Brandon Sullivan

In this episode, CJ sits down with Brandon Sullivan, CFO at 2X, to unpack one of the most enduring tensions in business — the uneasy relationship between finance and marketing. From the myth of clean ROI to the chaos of martech spend, Brandon explains why measuring marketing impact is far harder than most CFOs think, and how spreadsheet logic can lead to bad decisions. He shares what it’s like to run finance inside a 1,200-person marketing org, why cutting too deep in downturns can backfire, and what it takes to actually bridge the gap between teams that speak different languages. Along the way, he reveals lessons from scaling 2X across time zones, building global reporting rhythms, and redefining how finance and marketing can finally pull in the same direction.—LINKS:Brandon Sullivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonsullivan2x/2X: https://2x.marketing/CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com—RELATED EPISODES:From Facebook’s Hypergrowth to Daffy’s Disruption: A CFO’s Playbook for Saying Yes—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00:00) Preview and Intro(00:02:28) Sponsor – Aleph | Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares(00:05:55) Behind Enemy Lines: Finance Meets Marketing(00:07:00) Why CFOs and CMOs Clash(00:08:12) The Myth of Marketing ROI(00:10:19) Why Marketing Is So Hard to Measure(00:11:23) The Single Source of Truth Problem(00:15:29) Sponsor – Mercury | RightRev | Tipalti(00:19:35) The Three Buckets of Marketing Spend(00:21:26) The Long-Term Cost of Cutting Program Spend(00:23:27) How AI and ChatGPT Are Changing Marketing Attribution(00:25:43) Building a Modern Finance Team(00:27:55) The First-Time CFO Learning Curve(00:31:05) From Solo Operator to Scaled Finance Org(00:32:41) Why Weekly Reporting Beats Monthly Reviews(00:40:10) Working with Private Equity Partners(00:43:43) The Founding Story of 2X(00:48:12) Running a Global Team Across Time Zones(00:54:00) Long-Ass Lightning Round(00:57:00) Advice to Younger Self(00:58:58) Finance Stack and Craziest Expense Story(00:59:58) Credits and Sign-Off—SPONSORS:Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metricsFidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.comRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.#RunTheNumbersPodcast #FinanceVsMarketing #CFOInsights #MarketingROI #BusinessStrategy This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.* YouTube* Spotify* AppleIn this episode of Mostly Growth, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the question on everyone’s mind: are we in an AI bubble? What starts as a lighthearted riff on the U.S. Postal Service launching a podcast quickly spirals into a sharp, funny breakdown of today’s AI hype cycle — from Nvidia, OpenAI, and AMD trading money and GPUs in a trillion-dollar feedback loop, to startups burning cash chasing “AI-powered” everything. The trio share real examples of when AI helps and when it backfires (including one newsletter that totally tanked), debate whether companies are over-optimizing for automation, and laugh through the absurdity of the hype while grounding it in practical insights on product, finance, and growth.Timestamps:00:00 Preview and Intro00:14 Are We in an AI Bubble?00:44 The AI Feedback Loop: Nvidia, OpenAI, and AMD01:00 Perplexity, We Caught You (Again)02:18 The USPS Podcast and the End of Original Ideas04:24 How the Team Actually Uses AI at Work06:07 CJ’s DIY Dunning Saga08:38 When Automation Goes Too Far10:49 The Perplexity Gaslight Moment13:27 AI vs. AI: Outsmarting Resume Screeners16:09 What Recruiters Really Think of AI Resumes17:17 The Chief of Staff Hiring Story19:15 Is AI Adoption Already Slowing Down?22:42 The “Crossing the Chasm” Moment for AI Tools26:22 Bundling AI Like Streaming Services28:49 Everyone’s Paying Everyone: The Circular AI Economy31:15 Betting Big on AGI and Data Centers34:09 The Margin: AI Erotica and Peak Absurdity35:23 OpenAI’s Token Leaderboard and Other Blunders41:43 What Kyle Tried This Week: Building an AI Agent44:52 Wrap-Up and OutroEpisodes Referenced:5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.Episodes Referenced:5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.Why Only 2% of Startups Make ItThe War for Talent is just getting started | Joe FloydLinks:https://usps-mailin-it.simplecast.com/https://i.imgflip.com/a92oy5.jpghttps://tabs.inc/webinar/tabs-agenthttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/07/business/ai-chatbot-prompts-resumes.html?_bhlid=1b5906cdc6781a738a150d9c32f846ebf11fc318https://substack.com/home/post/p-175615945https://ramp.com/data/ai-index?utm_source=econlab.substack.comhttps://medium.com/@samuelvandeth/crossing-the-chasm-162802d1cf27https://x.com/TrungTPhan/status/1922669292929024017/photo/1https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1977902195472322620?s=42https://topline.beehiiv.com/p/the-era-of-haves-and-have-notshttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd2qv58yl5ohttps://www.linkedin.com/posts/cj-gustafson-13140948_imagine-getting-called-into-your-cfos-office-activity-7381681514532458496-NOqa/https://fortune.com/2025/10/01/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-comeback-plan-bankruptcy/https://fortune.com/2024/11/13/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-says-endless-shrimp-is-never-coming-back/#https://www.relay.app/Today’s podcast is brought to you by MetronomeYou just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books.With Metronome, you hand it all off to the real-time billing infrastructure that just works—reliable, flexible, and built to grow with you. We turn raw usage events into accurate invoices, give customers bills they actually understand, and keep every team in sync in real time.Whether you’re launching usage-based pricing, managing enterprise contracts, or rolling out new AI services, Metronome does the heavy lifting so you can focus on your product, not your billing.That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome.Visit metronome.com to learn more. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

In this episode, CJ sits down with Joe Floyd, General Partner at Emergence Capital, for a candid conversation about the venture landscape reshaped by AI. They unpack how acqui-hires are rewriting the social contract between founders and investors, why AI engineers are commanding “boy band money,” and how SaaS playbooks are being torn up and rebuilt in real time. Joe explains the economics of AI-native startups — from circular capital flows to model-provider costs — and explores whether the next trillion-dollar private company could come from this new wave. Along the way, they discuss valuation frenzy, headcount discipline, and why curiosity might be the most valuable skill in tech today.—LINKS:Joe Floyd on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joefloyd/HarbourVest Partners: https://www.emcap.com/CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.comRELATED EPISODES:Why Fundraising Has Slowed Down: Insights from Emergence Capital’s Benchmarking Report: From Credit Karma to Notion: CFO Rama Katkar on Leading Finance Through Every Growth Stage:—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00:00) Preview and Intro(00:00:54) Opening and Episode Overview(00:02:53) Sponsor – RightRev | Tipalti | Aleph(00:07:07) Back to the Office and Startup Pace in San Francisco(00:08:40) AI Tooling Experiments and the Risk of Short-Term Hype(00:10:19) Building Stickier AI Products and Competing in Crowded Markets(00:12:27) SaaS Moats, Product-Market Fit, and the AI Shift(00:14:00) How Productivity Platforms Use AI To Stay Sticky(00:15:58) Continuous Authentication and the Next Wave of Security Tech(00:16:36) Sponsor – Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares | Mercury(00:19:54) Acqui-Hires, the Social Contract, and the War for AI Talent(00:22:42) Stock-Based Comp and the Economics of Attracting Engineers(00:24:39) The New Go-to-Market Playbook and Curiosity as a Superpower(00:27:59) AI’s Impact on Sales, Forecasting, and Buyer Behavior(00:29:11) Coding Agents, Headcount Reduction, and the Future of Engineering(00:32:21) Building Defensible IP and Competing in the LLM Ecosystem(00:34:34) AI ROI, Payback Periods, and the Search for Efficiency(00:37:17) Valuations, Fund Cycles, and the Venture Market Reset(00:40:20) The Circular Flow of AI Capital and Infrastructure Overbuild(00:45:37) AI Pricing Models, Platform Wars, and Open Source Futures(00:50:02) The Race to the First $1 Trillion Private Company(00:51:09) Credits and Outro—SPONSORS:Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.comRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics#RunTheNumbersPodcast #VentureCapital #ArtificialIntelligence #StartupStrategy #FutureOfWork This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.* YouTube* Spotify* AppleConference season is back, and CJ and Kyle are swapping stories from the stage—how to nail a keynote, whether conferences are worth the money, and why your walkout song matters more than you think. From there, they dig into a new a16z report revealing where AI startups are actually spending their dollars, and CJ shares results from his summer survey showing that CFOs talk a big game about measuring AI ROI—but nobody knows how to do it. The crew also unpacks how SaaS companies like Slack are bundling AI into their products and hiking prices, before spiraling into a late-night “potentially reliable” rabbit hole featuring a Soviet pole vaulter, beat-and-raise forecasting, and J. Edgar Hoover. They close with lessons on pricing in the real world (yes, Amsterdam’s architecture is involved) and one experiment CJ tried this week.Timestamps:00:00 Preview and Intro02:03 Walkout Songs & Kicking Off Conference Season04:12 Sponsored Segment — Metronome05:16 How To Give a Great Keynote and Not Bore the Room11:16 Are Conferences Worth the Money16:02 What AI Companies Are Actually Paying For — The a16z Report21:56 Summer Survey Results: The Elusive ROI of AI23:56 Why No One Knows How To Measure ROI on AI29:38 SaaS Companies Forcing AI — Bundling, Pricing, and Pushback35:32 A Potentially Reliable Thing I Read at 2 AM36:02 Soviet Pole Vaulter, Beat-and-Raise Forecasting & Hoover’s Borders41:02 Pricing in the Real World — Lessons from Amsterdam’s Skinny Houses44:37 Something I Tried This Week — FixyerEpisodes Referenced: ⁠Are You Bad at LinkedIn… or Is the Algorithm Lying?⁠⁠Why Founders Are Posting Sad Dinners⁠Links:⁠⁠⁠https://www.getmobly.com/⁠⁠https://a16z.com/the-ai-application-spending-report-where-startup-dollars-really-go/⁠⁠https://www.growthunhinged.com/p/how-to-nail-your-next-big-talk⁠⁠https://www.leahtharin.com/p/113-vincent-pierri-how-to-deal-with⁠⁠https://www.freepik.com/⁠⁠https://cluely.com/⁠⁠https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/it-was-the-summer-of-25⁠⁠https://www.crescendo.ai/⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/posts/justintropic_slack-just-raised-prices-125-by-forcing-activity-7379132597009870848-XI6N/⁠⁠https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/what-a-soviet-era-pole-vaulter-can-teach-us-about-beating-and-raising⁠⁠https://www.nytimes.com/1972/05/03/archives/j-edgar-hoover-made-the-fbi-formidable-with-politics-publicity-and.html⁠⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/73vh2j/til_that_the_dutch_government_once_enforced_a_tax/⁠⁠https://www.clearspaceliving.com/blog/why-dutch-stairs-are-so-steep/⁠⁠https://mjwrightnz.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/amsterdams-taxing-narrow-houses/⁠⁠https://www.fyxer.com/Today’s podcast is brought to you by MetronomeYou just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books.With Metronome, you hand it all off to the real-time billing infrastructure that just works—reliable, flexible, and built to grow with you. We turn raw usage events into accurate invoices, give customers bills they actually understand, and keep every team in sync in real time.Whether you’re launching usage-based pricing, managing enterprise contracts, or rolling out new AI services, Metronome does the heavy lifting so you can focus on your product, not your billing.That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome.Visit metronome.com to learn more. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Private markets are swelling, public markets are shrinking, and the line between the two has never been blurrier. In this episode, CJ sits down with Scott Voss, Managing Partner at HarbourVest, to make sense of what’s happening across venture, private equity, credit, and secondaries. Scott explains why companies like SpaceX and OpenAI are now valued alongside public giants, how the surge in take-privates is reshaping corporate strategy, and what happens when the quarterly earnings pressure disappears. They dive into the rise of GP-led deals, the evolving role of private credit as the “third voice in the room,” and why liquidity—not scarcity—will define this cycle. Scott also breaks down the growing appeal of evergreen and permanent capital structures, plus what AI mega-deals signal about the next phase of private investing.—LINKS:Scott Voss on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-voss-b91b94/HarbourVest Partners: https://www.harbourvest.comCJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.comRELATED EPISODES:Secondaries, Continuation Vehicles, and Sidecar Funds: Private Equity with HarbourVest’s Scott Voss -—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00:00) Preview and Intro(00:02:49) Sponsor – Mercury | RightRev | Tipalti(00:06:43) Opening Conversation(00:07:23) The Blurring Line Between Public and Private(00:09:36) The Rise of Mega Venture(00:11:20) The First $10 Trillion Company(00:12:28) The Shrinking Public Markets(00:13:09) Take-Private Playbook(00:14:04) Why Companies Go Private(00:16:00) Sponsor – Aleph | Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares(00:19:21) Efficiency and Exits(00:23:15) Liquidity in Private Markets(00:24:01) Secondaries and GP-Led Deals(00:27:14) Yale and the Secondary Market(00:29:09) Innovation and the Rise of GP-to-GP Trades(00:30:16) Liquidity Cycles and Interest Rates(00:33:18) The Third Voice in the Room – Private Credit(00:34:44) Private Credit and GP-Led Deals(00:36:02) Interest Rates and Deal Spreads(00:37:15) The Major Players in Private Credit(00:38:09) Regulation and Risk(00:39:25) Private Credit vs. Traditional Lending(00:40:33) Evergreen and Permanent Capital(00:45:57) Expanding Access to Private Markets(00:47:03) Understanding the Cap Table(00:47:44) AI Deals and Consolidation(00:50:00) The Evolution of AI and Blockchain(00:53:20) Funding Innovation and Risk(00:55:28) Lessons From Investing(00:55:39) Nostalgia and Life Phases(00:57:06) Nostalgia and the 1990s(00:59:21) Learn, Earn, and Return(01:00:45) Talking Nostalgia at Dinners(01:01:27) Summer Surfing(01:02:25) Wrap-Up and Closing—SPONSORS:Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.comRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics#RunTheNumbersPodcast #PrivateMarkets #VentureCapital #TakePrivate #FinanceLeadership This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Rama Katkar has helped steer some of the most iconic companies in tech through moments of scale and transformation. Now CFO at Notion and formerly a finance leader at Instacart and Credit Karma, she joins CJ to unpack what it means to build a modern finance function inside a product-led growth company. They discuss how to design finance for velocity without losing discipline, the art of forecasting when virality drives your business, and why Notion’s path to profitability looks different from its peers. Rama also shares lessons from scaling Credit Karma through its $8.1B acquisition by Intuit, what she learned about IPO readiness at Instacart, and how finance leaders can balance ambition with realism in uncertain markets.—LINKS:Rama Katkar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramakatkar/Notion: https://www.notion.so/CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.comRELATED EPISODES:“Let’s Just See What Breaks” — Intuit’s CFO on Being a Disruptor When You’re Already the Incumbent— —TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Preview – Credit Karma, Instacart, and the Road to Notion(00:01:14) Welcome & Episode Overview – Rama Katkar, CFO of Notion(00:02:22) Sponsor – Fidelity Private Shares | Mercury | RightRev(00:06:10) Interview Begins – From Dinner Conversations to Notion’s Pricing Evolution(00:09:20) Early Launch of Notion AI and Add-On Pricing(00:12:40) Community-Led Growth and Notion’s Viral Flywheel(00:14:38) Sponsor – Tipalti | Aleph | Rillet(00:18:39) Who Adopts Notion First? Product, Design, and Engineering(00:20:32) Turning Free Users Into Paid Teams(00:22:09) Why Notion Added an Enterprise Sales Motion(00:26:29) The CFO’s Long Game: Balancing Free Users and Cost(00:30:44) How Notion Experiments With AI Pricing(00:32:42) Rama’s Three-Part Framework for Forecasting(00:36:38) Why Notion Plans on a Six-Month Cadence(00:40:56) Transition – From Forecasting to M&A: Credit Karma’s Wild Ride(00:41:31) Selling Credit Karma During the Pandemic and DOJ Review(00:44:04) Closing the Deal With Intuit(00:49:47) Why the Org Chart Is the Most Important M&A Slide(00:52:08) The Long-Ass Lightning Round(00:56:45) Career Advice to Her Younger Self – Context Over Calculation—SPONSORS:Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.comRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics#CFOInsights #StartupFinance #NotionHQ #ProductLedGrowth #RunTheNumbersPodcast This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.* YouTube* Spotify* AppleAI may be rewriting the playbook for growth, but it’s also leaving behind some of the old startup gospel. CJ and Kyle (with Ben jumping in) dig into what happens when the “rules” no longer fit — from dead frameworks and disappearing SEO traffic to board members quietly checking out.Is T2D3 Dead? Did AI Kill It? The “triple-triple-double-double-double” path to $100M ARR worked in the old SaaS world. But what happens when AI companies blow past $100M in less than a year — often with questionable margins and pass-through revenue?SEO Down 20–40%: Is AEO the Savior? Google traffic is tanking. ChatGPT is rewriting recommendations. Is “AI Engine Optimization” the new growth channel, or just SEO with a different wrapper?The Brutal Tech Job Market CS grads face unemployment rates double those of art history majors. With 5,000+ applications going nowhere, does anyone get hired without networking or Loom videos anymore?Is Your Board Quiet Quitting? When growth slows and AI isn’t your story, some VCs go ghost. From missing intros to pushing for M&A, boards are quietly exiting stage left.Business Blunders* Hospital Bed LinkedIn Photos: Hustle so hard you end up in the ER (and still post about it).* The @Company Non-Tag: Execs copy-paste updates but forget to actually tag anyone. Peak passive-aggressive LinkedIn.* Ramp’s Y-Axis Crime: A 0.4% bump in weekend meals turned into a chart that looked like the apocalypse. Two burritos never looked so big.Pricing in the Real World: Bob’s Barricades It’s not Bob, it’s Happy — and he’s quietly running a barricade rental empire. Fifty cents per cone, thousands per site, tens of millions a year. The most Florida business model you’ve ever heard.Something We Tried This Week Kyle runs a test with Typeform — what worked, what didn’t, and what it says about the state of survey tools today.Today’s podcast is brought to you by MetronomeYou just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books.With Metronome, you hand it all off to the real-time billing infrastructure that just works—reliable, flexible, and built to grow with you. We turn raw usage events into accurate invoices, give customers bills they actually understand, and keep every team in sync in real time.Whether you’re launching usage-based pricing, managing enterprise contracts, or rolling out new AI services, Metronome does the heavy lifting so you can focus on your product, not your billing.That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome.Visit metronome.com to learn more. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

The IPO market may be slowing down, but the discipline of operating like a public company has never been more important. In this episode, CJ is joined by Chad Gold, CFO of FullStory and veteran operator with previous stints at G2, SalesLoft, and Rubicon, to discuss how capital markets and financing strategies are shifting in real time. Chad explains why more companies are staying private longer, how the rise of private credit is changing the CFO toolkit, and why building IPO-ready discipline matters even if you never go public. The conversation also dives into one of his specialties—pricing models and sales incentives—covering how seat-based, usage, and blended structures influence rep behavior, comp plans, and long-term revenue quality, as well as how the wrong incentives can quietly derail a business. Finally, Chad reflects on lessons from his early career at Home Depot and how fundamentals from retail operations still inform his instincts in SaaS today.—LINKS: Chad Gold on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadgold/Fullstory: https://www.fullstory.com/CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222 Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.comRELATED EPISODES:G2 CFO Chad Gold on Building A Durable Career as a Venture Backed Exec:Big Systems Thinking for Building a Finance Org: Advice From a Zoom Hypergrowth Survivor:—TIMESTAMPS:(02:14) Sponsors – Mercury | RightRev | Tipalti(06:10) What’s New at FullStory(09:22) Hypotheses, Data, and Unlocking Use Cases(10:13) Early CFO Career and the Evolution of Data(11:09) From Deterministic Models to Analytics-Driven Forecasting(12:17) Cohorts, Segmentation, and Revenue Quality(13:17) Why Companies Stay Private Longer(15:28) Sponsors – Aleph | Rillet | Fidelity P.S.(19:01) Capital Flows Into Hot Sectors Like AI and Cybersecurity(20:20) More Companies Going Private Than Public(21:41) Costs and Tradeoffs of Being Public(22:46) Secondary Markets and Access to Top Companies(24:14) Staying Private Longer and CFO Planning(25:29) Keeping the Org Exit-Ready(26:10) The Rise of Private Credit(27:37) Banks vs. Venture Debt After SVB(30:47) Pricing Models Across Chad’s CFO Roles(35:47) How to Incentivize Sales Reps Across Pricing Models(43:26) Lessons From Home Depot + Lightning Round—SPONSORS:Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.comRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metricsFidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.#CFOInsights #SaaSFinance #CapitalMarkets #IPOReady #RevenueStrategy #GrowthStageCFO This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.* YouTube* Spotify* AppleAI may be changing how we work, but it’s also changing how we interact with software — and not always for the better. CJ and Kyle Poyar dig into the growing pains of product design, IPOs in weird markets, and the unexpectedly depressing world of startup networking.* Navan IPO: Why a $613M company burning $80M is still pushing for an $8B valuation — and what it says about the state of software IPOs.* Prompt Bars Are Everywhere: The rise of “blank box” UX, why every app suddenly looks like ChatGPT, and how that’s giving users prompt anxiety.* Referral Programs: Ponzi Scheme?: Incentives are up, CAC is down — but is this growth channel actually sustainable or just marketing MLMs in disguise?* When to Disclose AI-Generated: If your calendar link feels cold, wait until your AI avatar shows up in an ad. We debate where the ethical (and strategic) line is for AI transparency.* Business Blunders:• Sad Dinners (CJ): Why every LinkedIn dinner photo looks depressing — and what it says about startup culture.• ChatGPT Bad Chart (Kyle): An incredible dataset ruined by a rainbow mess of tiny fonts and meaningless categories.* Potentially Reliable Thing at 2AM:• Arnold Twins Revenue (CJ): The wild deal behind Arnold Schwarzenegger’s comedy debut — and how it made more money than Terminator.• Reese Witherspoon Book Club (Kyle): Viral influence, middle-of-the-night decisions, and what media we trust half-asleep.* Pricing in the Real World:• CJ: Iced Coffee Variable Pricing: Starbucks, cold brew, and the surprising economics of how product pricing actually works day to day.* Something We Tried This Week:• Kyle: Fyxer Virtual Assistant: A hands-on experiment with offloading operational drag — what worked, what didn’t, and what Kyle’s still skeptical about.Today’s podcast is brought to you by Campfire.You may know that we use Campfire as our ERP, and it’s been a game changer for our finance workflow. The interface is intuitive, migration was quick and painless, and it’s freed us up to focus on strategic work instead of manual processes. In case you don’t know, Campfire is an AI-first ERP powering next-gen finance & accounting teams. Helps you close fast, unlock insights and scale smarter.If you’re curious about where finance tech is heading, and would like to hear more of my thoughts on the topic, don’t miss Campfire’s Finance Forward AI Summit - the upcoming summit bringing together the sharpest minds in finance and operations.You’ll hear directly from industry leaders on how they’re using AI to shape the future of finance, and how your team can get ahead of the curve. I’ll be speaking on panels with finance leaders from Anthropic, Snowflake, Mercury and more. The summit is October 28th in San Francisco; I hope to see you there.Sign up for the summit at campfiresummit.ai or learn more about Campfire at www.campfire.ai. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

In the early days of a startup, forecasting isn’t about nailing the numbers, it’s about setting the course. In this episode, the world’s most interesting CFO describes the art of “Cowboy forecasting” and how this back-of-the-envelope model can be far more valuable than a complex simulation. Kevin Drost started his career as a musician and talent scout for Sony before becoming the chief strategy officer of the music gear marketplace Reverb. Now, as the CFO of New Era ADR, he explains how the company is disrupting the notoriously expensive legal industry by replacing the billable hour with flat fees, and making dispute resolution faster and more predictable for businesses. The conversation also covers why simplicity often beats complexity in financial modeling, how a hands-on understanding of the product and customer builds real financial confidence, and how finance teams can empower every employee to understand and drive the business.—LINKS:Kevin Drost on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevindrostNew Era ADR: https://www.neweraadr.comCJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.comRELATED EPISODES:Secrets to Scaling a Marketplace Business with Jack Greco, VC and Co-founder of ACV Auctions — —TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Preview and Intro(02:40) Sponsor – Aleph | RightRev | Navan(07:18) Kevin’s Music Background & A&R at Sony(12:09) Record Labels Versus Venture Capital(17:01) Sponsor – Rillet | Pulley | Brex(20:53) Finding Motivation After Success(21:34) Building Reverb & the Etsy Acquisition(25:33) Stacking Skillsets & Interests(27:11) Cowboy Forecasting at Reverb(32:01) The Importance of Simplicity in Forecasting in the Early Stages(35:46) The Art and Science of Making Estimated Guesses(41:42) Building Firsthand Customer & Product Knowledge(45:36) Teaching Finance Across the Company(50:44) New Era ADR & Legal Industry Disruption(57:35) Legal Strategy Versus Financial Strategy(1:01:30) How New Era Gets Parties To Use the Platform(1:05:27) Other White Hot Use Cases for New Era ADR(1:09:25) The Long Ass Lightning Round: Kevin’s Biggest Mistake(1:12:41) Advice to a Younger Self(1:14:01) Finance Software Stack(1:15:21) Life as an A&R Rep—SPONSORS:Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalized demo at https://www.getaleph.com/runRightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.Navan is the all-in-one travel and expense solution that can give you access to exclusive, proprietary Nasdaq-validated data that reveals what’s happening with corporate travel investments. See the Navan Business Travel Index at https://navan.com/bti.Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics.Pulley is the cap table management platform built for CFOs and finance leaders who need reliable, audit-ready data and intuitive workflows, without the hidden fees or unreliable support. Switch in as little as 5 days and get 25% off your first year: https://pulley.com/mostlymetrics.Brex offers the world’s smartest corporate card on a full-stack global platform that is everything CFOs need to manage their finances on an elite level. Plus, they offer modern banking and treasury as well as intuitive expenses and accounting automation, bill pay, and travel. Find out more at https://www.brex.com/metrics#CowboyForecasting #FinanceLeader #StartupFinance #LegalTech #StartupForecasting This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com